MagicPhD
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World: Fractal
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Post by MagicPhD on May 17, 2015 23:05:01 GMT
I'm just getting started, but before I post I want to hash out a potential setting collision.
In my imagined setting, all magic obeys strict laws of physics. Any magic that does not work within the mechanisms of this magical physics will simply not work; magical energies of the wrong type will immediacy disperse into world-normal radiation.
You can use external magic to open a portal in (which is how the board works), and then transmit normal matter/information.
This might be a hard no-sell for both the effects listed here.
If this is an issue, one workaround is that the effects are possible under my magic, even if the mechanisms are different. So if your magic auto-adjusts to work in a different system, then it can go through just fine.
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Post by Leaf on May 17, 2015 23:12:51 GMT
Esthfora's properties more or less explicitly don't have a mechanism. The effect occurs, and the cause gets filled in only if absolutely necessary. I think that translates to "auto-adjusts".
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MagicPhD
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Posts: 95
World: Fractal
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Post by MagicPhD on May 17, 2015 23:24:48 GMT
Every effect in this universe explicitly does have a mechanism, and 'truth' is not a fundamental property of the system. But it is entirely plausible that reading rainbow text causes a magic effect that adjusts a mind to create a belief in that mind that the text is true.
I'll go with that, and a similar interpretation of Meletiti Entelecheiai's effect, which would be even more complicated (Platonic ideals don't exist either)
The effect would
a) 'load' in the message intent
b) 'read' the mind of the recipient
c) simulate every possible message being delivered to the mind
d) deliver the best message.
Creating this effect in-universe would be ridiculously complicated, and probably require sufficiently advanced AI to make, but is theoretically possible.
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Post by Meletiti Entelecheiai on May 18, 2015 1:51:50 GMT
Every effect in this universe explicitly does have a mechanism, and 'truth' is not a fundamental property of the system. But it is entirely plausible that reading rainbow text causes a magic effect that adjusts a mind to create a belief in that mind that the text is true. I'll go with that, and a similar interpretation of Meletiti Entelecheiai's effect, which would be even more complicated (Platonic ideals don't exist either) The effect would a) 'load' in the message intent b) 'read' the mind of the recipient c) simulate every possible message being delivered to the mind d) deliver the best message. Creating this effect in-universe would be ridiculously complicated, and probably require sufficiently advanced AI to make, but is theoretically possible. ME's magic doesn't actually respect local laws of physics, though overriding local truth requires mana on an astronomical scale. This particular effect, however, is entirely localized to his own world - it is not entirely correct to say that it's reading the recipient's mind (it would not trip any sensors or wards designed to protect against mind-reading; Bell-style mental opacity may or may not be effective against it, I haven't decided), but at any rate that's the only effect that occurs within local causality. Where it is required to provide a cause, it tries to work essentially as fate magic: things happen to occur to produce the desired outcome within the local laws of physics. This still puts giant holes in quantum mechanics, but oh well - ludicrous mana cost. How much real-world math do you know? Rather than thinking of the Entelechy as a world, it may be useful to think of it instead as an alternate "algebra", a different way that the world - and logic in general - could work. It's roughly equivalent to the old Sagan parable of the invisible, intangible unicorn, except that there are other invisible, intangible things running around that the unicorn can interact with. When the Entelechy interacts with other worlds, it tries to create an effect that is true according to the local algebra to maintain its relative nonexistence; if this isn't possible, it has to actually change the laws of physics on a universal scale to add an exception for its one effect, which is the part of the reason the mana cost is so exorbitant. |
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MagicPhD
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World: Fractal
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Post by MagicPhD on May 18, 2015 2:05:58 GMT
I haven't worked with alternate algebra's, but I have a rough understanding of what they are.
The problem seems to be that we are colliding absolutes.
Fractal physics does not permit the existence of otherworldly magic within it. Everything proceeds as the laws of physics mandate.
I could see local, temporary physics changes happening to support the Entelechy.
I am wary about allowing global scale changes to the way my world works; I'll think about it.
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Post by Meletiti Entelecheiai on May 18, 2015 2:42:08 GMT
That's pretty much it, yeah. Entelechy is all about enforcing truths that weren't true before.
Entelechy would actually prefer global changes that make exceptions of the form "except for this one case in 2016 AD on planet Earth at this point, that happens like this instead" over local changes of the form "within this spacetime volume the world works like this," but it'll take the latter if that's what it can get. For now I'll just assume that mana costs to interfere with Fractal are even more ludicrous than for everyone else.
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MagicPhD
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Posts: 95
World: Fractal
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Post by MagicPhD on May 18, 2015 3:04:03 GMT
I would prefer the latter for aesthetics: there is literal an equation of everything. It's some probabilistic tensorial system of partial differential equations, which is actually quite elegant if you look at it the right way.
Doing the former is adding a term to this equation with some time printed forever, inelegantly stamped in place.
Doing the latter is more a a temporary blip, in the grand scheme of things.
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Post by Meletiti Entelecheiai on May 18, 2015 3:25:45 GMT
So basically, it's the real world, with a really wonky extra particle, and a metacausal insistence on its own rules?
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MagicPhD
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Posts: 95
World: Fractal
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Post by MagicPhD on May 18, 2015 3:32:50 GMT
Yes, precisely.
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Post by Meletiti Entelecheiai on May 18, 2015 4:19:50 GMT
On a side note, I'm not sure that ME's opening post will interact with Fractal much at all. It'll read information out of it (it can observe things that it can't effect, that's purely passive), but all the "computing" is done in Entelechy to produce a nonstandard forum post that looks different to different people.
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MagicPhD
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Post by MagicPhD on May 18, 2015 4:31:55 GMT
Agreed. As long as you decide what to send me outside my universe (which you do), Mother Starlight just needs to have the forum send the decided text message as usual. It will be unsettlingly weird, but not appear to be overtly magical.
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Post by Meletiti Entelecheiai on May 18, 2015 4:40:48 GMT
That is the intention!
In fact, from the perspective of other magics, most Entelechy stuff registers as "things produced by magic" and not as spells in themselves.
Mm, but I kind of want dispel magic to work on Entelechy wards given a high enough caster level... I'll think about it and post in the Dungeon thread about that, though.
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