Tyche
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Posts: 27
World: Eclipse
Pronoun: ze/zim/zir
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Post by Tyche on Aug 13, 2015 21:02:24 GMT
What do you imagine the practical difference is, between an asexual, and a heterosexual who has never met, seen or heard the opposite sex described? The difference is quite substantial, actually, even practically, in that someone who is ace is not going to meet people they are attracted to in the relevant sense. (There are more fine details than that, of course, but that is a case that generally calls for disambiguation.) (You could say that I am not human by your definition, but I was designed using models of human psychology, and there are humans that function in this way also.)
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Cloaked
Newcomer
(Anonymous)
Posts: 9
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Post by Cloaked on Aug 13, 2015 21:13:19 GMT
In almost all contexts I am familiar with, the word "asexual" has a different meaning than the one you seem to be using.
In biological contexts, it refers to people or other beings reproducing without the involvement of another being. This is not that context.
In social contexts, somewhat simplified, it refers to people who are not sexually attracted to other people, or to people who are not interested in having sex. This seems to be the sense in which Ahrotahn is using the word.
Please explain what definition you are using.
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Erocentrism
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Posts: 26
World: Demiheritage (tentative name)
Pronoun: she, usually
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Post by Erocentrism on Aug 13, 2015 22:08:49 GMT
What do you imagine the practical difference is, between an asexual, and a heterosexual who has never met, seen or heard the opposite sex described? The difference is quite substantial, actually, even practically, in that someone who is ace is not going to meet people they are attracted to in the relevant sense. I don't see how. In my example, I specified that the het person is not going to meet or even have a concept of anyone they're attracted to either. Whether they could isn't relevant to the exercise. In social contexts, somewhat simplified, it refers to people who are not sexually attracted to other people, or to people who are not interested in having sex. Everyone I know uses "asexual" in the context of sexual orientation to refer only to people who are not sexually attracted to other people on the pheromone or visual level. Not to people who entirely lack a sexual response or have no interest in sex. It seems like you're both saying "asexuality" when the word you're looking for is either "celibacy" or "impotence". I assure you, I have never experienced sexual attraction, I am utterly fascinated by sex, and I've never had any difficulty what so ever getting wet. Which, I don't mean in the punny way.
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Post by Dr. Realist on Aug 13, 2015 23:23:38 GMT
I don't find your other points relevant. Even if I'm tempted to argue them or agree on their own merits, I know better. I can recognize what all that actually meant. And I don't consider failing to share your alien priorities a mistake, let alone a hubristic one. I am not operating in your world. ... Would you care to express to me what I "actually mean", since I apparently mean something other than what I have typed? My impression of your plan was, I quote, 'have sex anonymously with people who want sex but have problems that prevent them from doing anything about it.' While this apparently is not your plan, you're still doing it, so I'm going to address why that is a bad idea. Either A: You are violating people's sexual privacy by investigating whether they actually want sex, despite what they might express publically, or B: You're raping people because you're not careful enough when you determine whether people actually want sex. Neither of these things is a good thing. Would you care to explain which premise you would be conceding? Okay, so assuming I'm reading this correctly... You're saying that you're not attracted to people so much as you are interested in sex, much like you might be interested in, say, climbing, or tennis, or cooking. That makes sense and fits a working definition of 'asexual'. However, some people are both not attracted to other people and not interested in sex. These people are not 'broken' or 'incorrect', they are simply different from you. They also may wish to call themselves asexual, since they're characterized by a lack of sex.
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Erocentrism
Poster
Posts: 26
World: Demiheritage (tentative name)
Pronoun: she, usually
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Post by Erocentrism on Aug 14, 2015 1:21:36 GMT
Dr. Realist, I am not going to play the strawman for you no matter how hard you try to bait me with misrepresentative loaded questions. You may as well give up.
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Post by Ahrotahn on Aug 14, 2015 1:28:44 GMT
Are you saying you don't particularly enjoy having sex with people, but you do it anyway for ideological reasons? Okay, that, right there, is the sort of insidiously leading question that can't even be answered without conceding the premise. So, you know, head's up on that. That wasn't supposed to be some sort of sneaky trap question. I was trying to check whether I was understanding correctly. It seems I was in fact misunderstanding, so, uh, good thing I asked to check. Others have already responded to the rest of that post better than I could. I assure you, I have never experienced sexual attraction, I am utterly fascinated by sex, and I've never had any difficulty what so ever getting wet. I find that description extremely confusing, but it sounds like it works for you so w/e. Either A: You are violating people's sexual privacy by investigating whether they actually want sex, despite what they might express publically, or B: You're raping people because you're not careful enough when you determine whether people actually want sex. The obvious third alternative is that she determines whether people want sex by asking them, perhaps privately depending on cultural context.
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Post by Dr. Realist on Aug 14, 2015 1:37:42 GMT
Dr. Realist, I am not going to play the strawman for you no matter how hard you try to bait me with misrepresentative loaded questions. You may as well give up. ... Yes, refusing to engage with your opponents is a very effective way for you to represent yourself and your causes.
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Post by Dr. Realist on Aug 14, 2015 1:44:14 GMT
Either A: You are violating people's sexual privacy by investigating whether they actually want sex, despite what they might express publically, or B: You're raping people because you're not careful enough when you determine whether people actually want sex. The obvious third alternative is that she determines whether people want sex by asking them, perhaps privately depending on cultural context. True. I would like to note, however, that rather than pointing out this moderately-obvious alternative, my debate partner instead allowed me to continue thinking she might be raping people, because she felt that engaging with such a 'misrepresentative loaded question' would make her appear worse than my first impression.
I think I'm going to be charitable, and ascribe that to having met many people before who were totally uninterested in actually listening.
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Erocentrism
Poster
Posts: 26
World: Demiheritage (tentative name)
Pronoun: she, usually
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Post by Erocentrism on Aug 14, 2015 2:11:09 GMT
Subtle. Seriously, it's not going to work. That wasn't supposed to be some sort of sneaky trap question. I didn't think it was, which was why I pointed that out instead of ignoring it. The obvious third alternative is that she determines whether people want sex by asking them, perhaps privately depending on cultural context. Yep. I also have, you know, fans, from my porn shoots. Who talk about what I've said in interviews and on my vlog. That was a filter that made a handy starting place, and I'd been keeping track for a while even before it became possible to do anything about it.
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Post by Dr. Realist on Aug 14, 2015 2:17:24 GMT
Subtle. Seriously, it's not going to work. That wasn't supposed to be some sort of sneaky trap question. I didn't think it was, which was why I pointed that out instead of ignoring it. The obvious third alternative is that she determines whether people want sex by asking them, perhaps privately depending on cultural context. Yep. I also have, you know, fans, from my porn shoots. Who talk about what I've said in interviews and on my vlog. That was a filter that made a handy starting place, and I'd been keeping track for a while even before it became possible to do anything about it. You know, the best way to get me to stop annoying you is to actually reply to me with a substantiative argument.
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Erocentrism
Poster
Posts: 26
World: Demiheritage (tentative name)
Pronoun: she, usually
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Post by Erocentrism on Aug 14, 2015 2:31:05 GMT
I'll respond with a substantive argument when you provide something substantive to respond to instead of trying to bait me into a slap fight.
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Post by Dr. Realist on Aug 14, 2015 2:39:02 GMT
I'll respond with a substantive argument when you provide something substantive to respond to instead of trying to bait me into a slap fight. I will attempt to be less argumentative.
You say that you have a plan to 'end sexual hardship.' What is this plan? What are the steps that you intend to take in order to achieve your goal?
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Erocentrism
Poster
Posts: 26
World: Demiheritage (tentative name)
Pronoun: she, usually
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Post by Erocentrism on Aug 14, 2015 3:05:01 GMT
Well, I intend to acquire some means of assuming male form in a small percentage of my bodies at some point so I can be more equal opportunity.
Seriously though, you are not going to convince me you're asking in good faith.
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Post by measuretwice on Aug 14, 2015 3:42:27 GMT
This entire thread has cooties.
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Post by Dr. Realist on Aug 14, 2015 3:45:58 GMT
Well, I intend to acquire some means of assuming male form in a small percentage of my bodies at some point so I can be more equal opportunity. Seriously though, you are not going to convince me you're asking in good faith. Because "you can recognize what all [those arguments] actually meant." Which apparently wasn't "I feel like you're in way over your head, for the following reasons."
If you're accusing me of acting in bad faith, I'd appreciate it if you would stop dancing around the damn issue and tell me why you think so.
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