Backstage: Chat logs Jun 14, 2015 18:01:38 GMT
Post by Mother Starlight on Jun 14, 2015 18:01:38 GMT
Top-of-page reminder that spoiler is because long, not because spoiler.
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08:10 < Kel> off to ACT
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10:43 * kappabeta curls up
10:43 < kappabeta> architecture is hard guys
10:48 < Endovior> It is?
10:49 < kappabeta> Yes.
10:50 < kappabeta> I'm trying to design the monument that Miles is going to get taieli from.
10:51 < kappabeta> It's difficult.
10:57 < Endovior> ah
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10:58 < Andygal> Morning.
10:59 < kappabeta> good morning
10:59 < Endovior> Good 'morning'
11:00 < Endovior> (I find it to be noon, but time is well-established to be weird)
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11:17 < Andygal> Hi.
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12:17 < FacelessDude> Greetings
12:17 < Andygal> Hi.
12:17 < Endovior> o/
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12:50 < kappabeta> tra la la working on monument
12:50 < Andygal> Hi?
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12:59 < FacelessDude> kappabeta, how is the monument going?
13:00 < kappabeta> it's going pretty good!
13:00 < Andygal> Hi Aestrix.
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13:00 < Eva> Hi guys!
13:01 < Aestrix> Hi!
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13:01 < Teceler> hello
13:01 < Eva> Hi Aestrix, Teceler. :3 More gifts-thread?
13:02 < Aestrix> Yeah, let me get food though <3
13:02 < Eva> Alright! <3
13:02 < Andygal> Hi Eva.
13:03 < Eva> Hi Andy!
13:07 < Andygal> <hugs>
13:07 < Eva> <3
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13:23 < Endovior> Connectivity has been particularly bad today
13:23 < Aestrix> :(
13:23 < Andygal> :(
13:23 < Endovior> I think that's an 'everyone' thing, as it happens
13:24 < Teceler> I seem to have dropped out briefly overnight, yes
13:24 < Endovior> Since people are continually being kicked off, and I'm not otherwise having internet problems
13:25 < Teceler> (for logs later, nothing was said while MotherStarlight was off)
13:29 < Aestrix> So, Eva, should I reply now or do you want to tweak your tag for Lioncourt looking for another present?
13:33 < Eva> I should tweak it.
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13:33 < Endovior_> D:
13:34 < Eva> fixed!
13:34 < Eva> Tag me.
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13:54 < Aestrix> Hmmm what should be the mechanism to make the flowers play their music...
13:56 < Aestrix> Thoughts, anyone? xD
13:57 < Teceler> squeezing the stem?
13:57 < Aestrix> I think that is too much of a euphemism for Ina to willingly install in a magic flowe
13:57 < Aestrix> flower*
13:58 * Teceler did not think about that
13:58 < Teceler> point
13:58 < Aestrix> xD
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14:16 * Andygal kicks the shit out of the server
14:16 < Endovior> Don't do that; it's having a hard enough time already. :(
14:17 * Aestrix brings the server tea and blankets.
14:18 < Adelene> ^^
14:19 < kappabeta> <3<3<3
14:21 < Andygal> <3
14:25 < Aestrix> Eva, tag
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14:31 < sonatagreen> When a demon tries to conjure a person, does nothing happen or do they get a corpse or what?
14:31 < Aestrix> They get a basement dweller.
14:31 < Adelene> basement-dwellers. :P
14:32 < Aestrix> Which is a mindless human that functions well except for bein a vegetable
14:32 < sonatagreen> If they try to conjure a copy of a running computer, do they get a copy with the hard drive intact but the ram zeroed out, or something else?
14:35 < Adelene> I think that came up when people were talking about infosec; iirc they get a copy of the current ram state, meaning if you want proper infosec you have to make sure your info isn't all in ram at once.
14:41 < Thatwasademo> so what happens if a demon tries to conjure a copy of a running computer that is a person
14:43 < sonatagreen> If a demon tries to conjure "a magic sword", do they get nothing, or a nonmagical sword?
14:44 < Thatwasademo> character idea i just had: the 3 from 3 in Three
14:44 < Thatwasademo> or Thomas from The Fool's Errand + The Fool and His Money
14:45 < Thatwasademo> the latter would be kind of difficult though since anagram magic
14:46 < sonatagreen> haha
14:47 < Thatwasademo> Bewitchments are powerful but hard to write since i'm not a professional puzzle designer like Cliff is
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14:48 < Thatwasademo> the 3, though, doesn't necessarily require inventing puzzles, since hopefully she's avoided lightning strikes
14:48 < Thatwasademo> since the events of 3 in Three
14:49 * sonatagreen has no idea what half of this means
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14:49 < Kel> I'm back!
14:49 < Aestrix> Welcome back!
14:49 < Teceler> welcome back!
14:49 < Kel> Thanks!
14:49 < Andygal> Hi.
14:50 < Thatwasademo> 3 in Three and The Fool's Errand are a couple of really really good puzzle games by Cliff Johnson
14:50 < Kel> I liked The Room as a puzzle game
14:51 < Thatwasademo> the latter is about the trumps in the tarot deck and the former is about a number three that got rounded off of a spreadsheet cell just as lightning struck the power plant and caused a surge
14:52 < Thatwasademo> each game has a bunch of traditional puzzles like you'd find in a book of puzzles, and each one has a story section attached with hints to a metapuzzle
14:52 < Thatwasademo> so when you've finished all the puzzles you get to go back and look through the story for the hints to the finale
14:53 * Andygal idly imagines Liara finding the forum between the events of ME1 and 2...
14:53 < Teceler> Andygal: ooo.
14:54 < Thatwasademo> the MWF-relevance of this is that the Fool comes from a world where magic runs on anagrams and other wordplay and the 3 is just an adorable inhabitant of your computer
14:54 < Teceler> that would solve the two year time skip problem if you timed it properly
14:55 < Andygal> And also avoid the "Shepard being stuck with Ceberus" problem if you wanted. MWF is like "Dead friend? This is a fixable problem!"
14:56 < Kel> Is it yet?
14:56 < Teceler> that would also work
14:56 < Kel> I think the keeper's ressurection ability has not yet been demonstrated in the MWF
14:56 < Thatwasademo> I could also, instead of writing the 3, write some other random number, letter, or punctuation from somebody's post
14:56 < Kel> although I guess ME also does it, if you want to set your setting on fire
14:56 < Teceler> I mean, it would be complicated, but does not involve Cerberus XD
14:57 < Andygal> I think it's been established that she could if she wanted to?
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14:57 < Kel> Demo, depending on how puzzly you want it to be, you might want to wait until the puzzle of Aspen has been solved less recently?
14:57 < sonatagreen> She could in principle, but locating the right person may be prohibitively tedious.
14:57 < Andygal> and it would be pretty easy for her to find the ME universe, because Reapers are distinctive mind-things.
14:57 < Thatwasademo> Oh, I wouldn't be able to make it puzzly.
14:57 < Kel> ME being which?
14:58 < Thatwasademo> I have no idea how to even start to design a word puzzle
14:58 < Kel> Okay
14:58 < Andygal> Masss Effect, lol.
14:58 < Teceler> Andygal: What I was envisioning when you first mentioned that, though, was Liara observing the events of early ME2 XD
14:58 < Teceler> too many similiar acronyms
14:58 < Andygal> Teceler: That works too.
14:58 < Thatwasademo> MEME
14:58 < sonatagreen> haha
14:58 < Kel> <3
14:58 < Andygal> lol
14:58 < Teceler> though that might be more amusing with a different character who knows even less about what's going on :P
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15:04 < Kel> If I want to change an icon that's already been used, do I just upload another with exactly the same name and then delete the original, or something else?
15:04 < Thatwasademo> yes that
15:04 < Aestrix> Yep
15:04 < Kel> Okay good
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15:04 < Kel> Hi Eva!
15:04 < Teceler> if you upload another with exactly the same keyword it should unname the old one and assign the keyword to that, yes
15:04 < Thatwasademo> good afternooooooon
15:04 < Eva> Tag, Aestrix/whoever's next up for presents
15:04 < Eva> (It's a demo!)
15:04 < Teceler> welcome back
15:04 < Kel> (I had started being bugged by Steve's icons facing different directions)
15:05 < Kel> Also, Eva, once I finish this thing, I will want to talk about what seeds Lioncourt might find useful
15:06 < Aestrix> Added ink's tag, MY DUTY IS DONE
15:06 < Kel> <3
15:06 < Thatwasademo> what gifts are even left
15:07 < Kel> BE's is left
15:07 < Thatwasademo> i know on my end there's a spellbook and a MYSTERIOUS LARGE BOX
15:07 < Kel> I was going to have Lantern leave a thing but at this point it seems a little late
15:07 < Kel> I am very behind schedule
15:07 < Kel> (a box of little glazed spheres for holding things up)
15:09 < Kel> If it's /not/ too late I can totally write that in, though!
15:09 < sonatagreen> we are doing plenty of Weird Time Shit
15:10 < Teceler> Lioncourt is not /done/ going through the presents yet, so I think it would not be too confusing?
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15:11 < Kel> Okay I will add quickly as soon as I finish flipping all these icons
15:12 < Kel> Also, Astra's translation would provide understanding of languages that have not-directly translatable components, right?
15:12 < Eva> (please write it in)
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15:12 < Kel> I will
15:13 < Eva> Yes, Astra's translation is exceedingly good. It's only working on mouth-sounds and text at the moment, though
15:13 < Kel> So, /not/ for a language that also has components of materializing bits of things in the air and connecting them?
15:13 < Kel> and disappearing them
15:13 < Teceler> does it form text?
15:14 < Kel> No,
15:14 < Kel> each little speck usually represents something being talked about, and the connections between them make up a lot of the grammar
15:14 < Kel> *talked about in words
15:14 < Teceler> hm
15:14 < Teceler> this may cause problems
15:15 < Teceler> (also, Tyche has informed me that she wants to learn this language XD)
15:15 < Eva> Astra is able to communicate with you though, she just isn't maintaining an aura of understanding conjuration-language at the moment
15:15 < Kel> I could have them avoid saying any sentences not in first or second person?
15:15 < Eva> She'll have to add a small simple rite and then it will work fine.
15:15 < Kel> Okay, so at some point, I'll have Lantern go find Astra and add that and it will work?
15:15 < Eva> Yes.
15:16 < Kel> Yay! :)
15:16 < Kel> Lantern is excited about meeting a lot of forumites
15:16 < Kel> (especially Kit)
15:16 < Eva> (Astra's world is built around everything having a soul, and her being one of the people who can talk with those souls. Basically, she speaks in /concepts/, not words, and her mouth-movements are incidental.)
15:17 < Kel> Okay that should work /very/ well then!
15:17 < Eva> (She's extended this for party purposes.)
15:17 < Adelene> (Oh good, I was modeling tht right.)
15:39 < Kel> Teceler, tag
15:39 < Teceler> oo!
15:40 < Kel> (Lantern doesn't have a face yet, so I'm going to make posts with their forum icon in my default account?)
15:54 < Kel> also I have now finished BE's icons
15:54 * Teceler cheers
15:55 < Andygal> yay!
15:55 < sonatagreen> huzzah
16:01 < Teceler> this is /such/ a delightful exsurgent virus strain I accidentally invented
16:02 < sonatagreen> oh dear
16:02 < Kel> The bloodbug one?
16:02 < Kel> Or the ghost one?
16:02 < Teceler> the one from the thread
16:02 < Teceler> what ghost on?
16:02 < Teceler> *one
16:02 < Kel> The one we were talking about setting Spirit on fire with
16:02 < Teceler> oh
16:02 < Teceler> that one
16:03 < Teceler> no, that is not the accidental strain I am talking about
16:03 < Kel> I am thinking maybe it's a little too on fire to be fun unless we nerfed it a lot
16:03 < Teceler> probably
16:03 < Kel> What does the bloodbug one do?
16:03 < sonatagreen> it makes there be bugs in your blood
16:03 < Teceler> Kel: tag
16:04 < sonatagreen> in addition to the standard exsurgenty stuff
16:04 < Teceler> the stuff that does not belong there in your blood is one of the few early warning signs of that one, apparantly
16:04 < Kel> ah
16:04 < Kel> that /is/ a bad thing
16:05 < Kel> unlike normal bloodbugs which are totally harmless!
16:05 < sonatagreen> yes, exactly!
16:05 < Teceler> and then the stuff /hatches/ and, yeah, exsurgent stuff
16:05 < Kel> I am leaving, back probably within an hour and a half
16:05 < Kel> ew
16:05 < Teceler> bizaarely harmless, yeah (@ normal blood bugs)
16:06 < Teceler> good luck with your thing
16:06 < Andygal> later Kel.
16:06 < Kel> thanks! it should be a fun thing!
16:06 < Kel> <3
16:06 < Teceler> that is good! enjoy yourself!
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16:07 < Andygal> also gross viruses of doom, ewww.
16:07 < Teceler> sorry
16:08 < Andygal> :p
16:10 < Adelene> hmmmmm, I think this might be done. I'm writing up DnD 3.5 stats for cutebolds, to help people run imported-cutebold characters.
16:10 < Andygal> :)
16:11 < Adelene> +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength.
16:11 < Adelene> Small: As a Small creature, a cutebold gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but they use smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
16:11 < Adelene> Cutebold base land speed is 20 feet.
16:11 < Adelene> Low-Light Vision: A cutebold can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
16:11 < Adelene> +2 racial bonus to Hide, Move Silently, and Survival checks; +4 racial bonus to Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks.
16:11 < Adelene> Nonspeaking: A cutebold knows two fewer languages than their intelligence would usually grant, to a minimum of zero. (A cutebold with 16 int knows 1 language.) A cutebold who learns a language is still not fluent in it; a character attempting to understand a cutebold's speech must pass a DC 12 Int check to understand each sentence, with characters who are familiar with the individual cutebold getting a +2 bonus to this roll. A cutebold who
16:11 < Adelene> Eusocial: Any character making a Diplomacy check against a cutebold with a friendly or helpful attitude gets a +2 bonus.
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16:12 < Andygal> You should pastebin this.
16:12 < Adelene> mm. *does that thing*
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16:13 < Adelene> http://pastebin.com/nPHTSr56
16:14 < kappabeta> i am really pleased about the word "cutebold".
16:14 < Adelene> :D
16:14 < kappabeta> <333
16:14 < Andygal> <3
16:14 < Adelene> <3 ^^
16:17 < Adelene> ...they should get some stuff relating to thievery, I think.
16:17 < Adelene> +2 to search, maybe something else?
16:17 < sonatagreen> move silently?
16:17 < Andygal> favoured class: rogue.
16:18 < Adelene> They already have +2 to Move Silently.
16:18 < Adelene> Favored class: Rogue, yes.
16:25 < Adelene> Yeah, not coming up with anything else interesting for thievery.
16:27 < Eva> How about "Borrowed: A Cutebold caught with a stolen item is at +4 to diplomacy checks to escape justice." (or something similar)
16:28 * Eva hmm.
16:28 < Adelene> heee ^^
16:28 < Adelene> I mean, they're already geting some hefty bonuses to Diplomacy there, it does get to the point of being too much, but.
16:32 < Adelene> *consults thing* Yeah - the racial bonus to Cha and the +4 racial bonus to Diplomacy means that a completely average 'bold can make puppy dog eyes at someone who wishes them ill but isn't yet hostile, and have that person go 'well, okay, fine' 50% of the time.
16:32 < Andygal> heeeeee.
16:32 < Teceler> XD
16:34 < Adelene> And then it goes up from there if the 'bold spends any effort on actually learning how to manipulate people. I don't think they need any more bonuses there. ^^
16:34 < Teceler> yeah, um, they probably have enough :P
16:34 < Andygal> >.>
16:34 * Teceler contemplates how she would port this to EP. (Probably a Background and a morph. Nonspeaking would be tricky, though...)
16:35 < Adelene> *nod*
16:36 < Eva> (oh, okay)
16:37 < Adelene> It works thematically, it just doesn't layer well mechanically.
16:37 < Eva> (yeah)
16:37 < kappabeta> http://shitifindon.tumblr.com/post/121454283854/so-here-is-the-current-version-of-the-taieli guys check out my architectural accomplishments
16:38 < Andygal> Mmm..pretty cool looking.
16:39 < Adelene> *nodnod*
16:40 < kappabeta> ^^
16:41 < kappabeta> hmm I think I'll throw in some detailing on the roof
16:42 < Eva> By the way, I have a thing for black rings
16:42 < Eva> I threw it into the document
16:43 < Adelene> Oh, I had a suggestiony thing for yellow ring powers that I put in last night, too.
16:43 < Eva> That looks interesting, the 'fear reaction' thing
16:43 < Eva> ?
16:43 < Adelene> *nod*
16:45 < Andygal> I am also very consistently "freeze". :p
16:45 < Adelene> *patpats*
16:52 < Eva> say, thatwasademo, are you here?
16:52 < Thatwasademo> yes
16:53 < Eva> Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is /haaaaarrrrrd./
16:53 * Eva flops.
16:53 < Thatwasademo> it's easier than a lot of roguelikes
16:53 < Thatwasademo> but yeah it's pretty hard
16:54 * Eva was never very good at Nethack either, she never really got past Medusa
16:54 < Thatwasademo> well nethack is kind of a strange beast
16:54 < Thatwasademo> it's more of a puzzle than a tactical combat game
16:54 < Eva> oh?
16:54 < Adelene> *patpats Eva, points to Powder as a friendlier roguelike*
16:54 < Eva> Hee.
16:55 < Thatwasademo> powder and dcss are difficult in the same way
16:55 < Thatwasademo> being well-balanced roguelikes with tactical combat
16:55 < Adelene> I'm not actually familiar with DCSS. Powder is pretty friendly in general though in my experience.
16:56 < Thatwasademo> you should try DCSS sometime it's really good
16:56 * Eva had a promising run as a kobold assassin where she managed to get a frost-brand shortsword early on
16:56 * Eva then died to centaurs
16:56 < Thatwasademo> it's one of those roguelikes where the only thing really actively trying to kill you is your enemies
16:56 < Eva> Centaurs are annoyingly fast.
16:56 < Thatwasademo> centaurs are rough yeah
16:58 < Thatwasademo> right now i'm playing factorio
16:58 < Eva> ooh, +3 dagger.
16:58 < Thatwasademo> which is a delightful little game about building a factory to build factory pieces
16:58 < Thatwasademo> ooh
16:58 < Eva> Promising start.
16:59 < Thatwasademo> don't get overconfident
16:59 < Thatwasademo> are you playing online?
16:59 < Eva> annnd then I turn the corner into a pack of jackals and escape with only half my health. Yes.
17:00 < Thatwasademo> because if you play online I can watch you
17:00 < Adelene> *piles kobolds on Thorn*
17:00 < Eva> I'm playing online!
17:01 < Thatwasademo> ooh what server
17:01 < Teceler> Thorn: [still has no idea what to do with Kobold piles]
17:01 < Eva> Akrasiac
17:01 < Thatwasademo> username?
17:01 < Adelene> The kobold piles are usually pretty self-explanatory in the sense that if you can find one that talks you can ask them to explain themselves. ^^
17:01 < Thatwasademo> Evangeline?
17:01 < Teceler> ha
17:02 < Teceler> fair enough
17:02 < Adelene> ^^
17:02 < Teceler> her bewildered expression is kind of amusing, though
17:02 < Thatwasademo> if Evangeline is you then hi
17:02 < Adelene> *giggling*
17:02 < Eva> Hi! I'm Eva.
17:02 < Eva> And yes, that's a me.
17:03 < Thatwasademo> http://crawl.akrasiac.org:8080/#watch-Evangeline <3
17:07 < sonatagreen> I'm trying to make Glowing Lake's avatar have a bunch of glowfic author colors, who should I include?
17:07 < Thatwasademo> i dunno but if you want you can throw in a dark green and call it verdigris for me
17:07 < sonatagreen> I can fit two major colors, three minor colors, and maybe sneak in two or three more.
17:07 < kappabeta> green, purple, and blue are kind of the "big three" so to speak
17:08 < Thatwasademo> also what kappa said
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17:12 < Eva> (ohdear)
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17:12 < Eva> (Goblin with a wand of flame)
17:13 < Thatwasademo> unique goblin with a wand of flame
17:14 < Eva> eyep
17:14 < Eva> ... I should have shot one of my curares to open this if I was going to try for it
17:14 < Thatwasademo> yeah
17:15 < Eva> annnd reading random scrolls might actually have helped me this time
17:15 < Thatwasademo> I should play a round for people to watch sometime
17:15 < Andygal> :(
17:16 < Thatwasademo> same link should take you to the new game
17:16 < Thatwasademo> or click Evangeline's name in the list
17:23 < Eva> Wow, I did not expect to die to a snake
17:23 < Eva> okay?
17:23 < Andygal> :(
17:23 < Thatwasademo> yeah adders are actually surprisingly deadly
17:23 < Eva> Hmm, let's play something I expect to die as :P
17:23 < Eva> * race
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17:32 < Kel> Eva, does Lioncourt's kind of vampire have any metal allergies?
17:32 < Teceler> welcome back
17:32 < Kel> Thanks!
17:32 < Andygal> hi Kel
17:32 < Kel> Hi!
17:34 < Kel> Eva, are you still here?
17:35 < Andygal> Eva is playing DCSS.
17:35 < Teceler> Eva is playing a game at the moment, so may take a while to get to you
17:35 < Kel> Oh okay
17:35 < Kel> Do any of you know whether Gap vampires in general or Lioncourt in particular have metal allergies?
17:35 < Teceler> ...the moon thing might be mean silver, I don't remember
17:35 < Teceler> *might mean silver allergy
17:38 < Kel> okay, the metal will not be silver then
17:38 < Kel> Just in case
17:38 < Kel> I'll be right back I need to try and change a liscence plate
17:38 < Teceler> I mean, the traditional one... is there a traditional metal allergy for vampires?
17:39 < Andygal> Nooo.
17:39 < Teceler> I'm coming up with cold iron for fairies and relatives, silver for werewolves
17:40 < Teceler> generally with vampires it's wood or stakes, and holy things
17:40 < Andygal> also garlic.
17:40 < Teceler> yes
17:46 < Kel> (back)
17:46 < Kel> Also running water I think?
17:47 < Kel> And doors or rice?
17:48 < Kel> So Lantern will not have a box made of copper, which is the traditional metal for supernatural people to be allergic to in Glazed
17:48 < Kel> And I will describe the metal vaguely enough that if it turns out there is a problem, it can just be a different metal
17:49 -!- Eva has quit
17:49 < Kel> darn
17:50 < Adelene> Leaf's box had a brass latch and didn't cause any problems.
17:50 < Kel> Okay good
17:51 < Kel> (brb again, stickers)
17:51 < Adelene> (Brass is a copper alloy though if you want to avoid those. :P )
17:52 < Teceler> just call it a metallic box :P
18:08 -!- ErinFlight has joined #backstage
18:09 < ErinFlight> Hey, anyone else here?
18:09 * Teceler is here
18:09 < Andygal> Hi.
18:09 < Adelene> hiya
18:09 < Thatwasademo> hi
18:10 < Aestrix> *waves*
18:11 < ErinFlight> Hey :) Anyone else currently in LionCourt's coronation?
18:12 < Adelene> I am kinda? I don't think there's much leeway for non-gift RP right now though.
18:12 < Aestrix> Mhm
18:12 < Teceler> unless you want to have it have happened before, yeah
18:14 * Kel whispers (~time shenanigans~) before scuttling off to walk neighbors' dog
18:14 < Aestrix> Hee <3
18:14 < Teceler> yes, that thing XD
18:15 < ErinFlight> It could happen before the gift giving (I sort of missed the last few days)
18:16 < Teceler> you replied with your gift as a subthread, by the way
18:17 < ErinFlight> Thanks, I'll fix it
18:19 < sonatagreen> oh, are you the Organization?
18:20 < ErinFlight> I am, Glen and Alex ( Flynn as well).
18:20 < sonatagreen> Ahrotahn wanted to talk to Glen, and Viridian might too.
18:20 < Thatwasademo> hmm
18:21 < sonatagreen> about interdimensional teleporters
18:23 < ErinFlight> In the tea party?
18:23 < sonatagreen> yeah
18:23 < sonatagreen> But I'm okay to wait for the cake thread
18:25 < ErinFlight> Were you magicphd?
18:25 < sonatagreen> I am not.
18:26 < ErinFlight> We could do it in the tea thread, if you wanted?
18:26 < sonatagreen> Someone occasionally ircs with the username magicphd, I don't know if they're also someone else
18:27 < sonatagreen> I think I might prefer to not start a new subthread in a thread that has been successored, but I'll ask Eva
18:28 < Kel> (back)
18:28 < Aestrix> Welcome back, Kel
18:28 < Teceler> welcome back
18:28 < Kel> thanks!
18:28 < ErinFlight> Hi Kel
18:28 < Kel> Hi!
18:29 < ErinFlight> True, we should probably just wait.
18:29 -!- ThatFacelessDude has joined #backstage
18:29 < Kel> Hi!
18:29 < ErinFlight> Are you guys active in the MWF? I'm trying to get involved, but don't really know how to start.
18:29 < Kel> Also, whenever Eva gets back, I'd like to ask whether the translation of text /would/ include translation of 3D text, which Lantern's language does
18:29 < Kel> I am
18:29 < Kel> Oh! There's a reference post of where to go first!
18:30 < Kel> One sec I will find a link!
18:30 < Adelene> I am kinda? Lurker's definitely around but she doesn't contribute a whole lot there.
18:30 < Andygal> I have a character account but have not been heavily involved, yet.
18:30 < Teceler> My characters haven't been posting a lot recently (Tyche may get more active)
18:31 < Adelene> (meta!Lurker has requested that I give canon!Lurker a tumblr account so she can do more things without those things having to be conversations with strangers)
18:31 < ErinFlight> I posted in the intro thread, but am know sort of at loose ends. I don't want to interrupt other conversations.
18:32 < Teceler> forum-wise, most threads are open, and conversations overlapping generally isn't considering a problem
18:32 < sonatagreen> Forums are asynchronous; unlike talking out loud, you can just jump into a conversation without worrying about interrupting or talking over people.
18:32 < Kel> right
18:32 < Kel> (working! [spoiler]
18:32 < Kel> *)
18:33 < Teceler> ah, yes, do not interrupt when Aspen is working on a post, that is the main thing with that
18:33 < Andygal> Because that character has special circunstances.
18:33 < Kel> But other than in clearly marked conversations, you are normally fine!
18:34 < Andygal> You can post in all the various information threads with IC information about the setting your character comes from.
18:34 < ErinFlight> Good to know, thank you!
18:34 < Kel> http://manyworlds.boards.net/post/2164/thread
18:35 < Kel> Although I think you've already gotten a lot of these
18:35 < ErinFlight> Thanks Kel!
18:35 < ErinFlight> I'm off to eat dinner
18:35 -!- ErinFlight has quit
18:36 -!- ThatFacelessDude has quit
18:46 -!- Kel has quit
18:46 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
18:46 < Kel> (firefox crash)
18:47 * Teceler clucks at firefox
18:47 < Kel> I just went to water a plant and discovered a horrifying insect infestation
18:47 < Teceler> eep
18:47 < Andygal> eeep.
18:47 < Aestrix> Eep.
18:47 < Kel> that's what I said!
18:47 < Kel> Only a lot louder
18:47 < Teceler> XD
18:47 < Aestrix> xD
18:48 < Aestrix> <3
18:48 < Teceler> that is a reasonable reaction!
18:48 < Andygal> xD
18:48 < Kel> thank you
18:49 < Kel> I thought it was but /apparently/ it was an ovverreaction
18:49 < Kel> ^over
18:49 < Kel> *
18:50 < Andygal> according to whom?
18:50 < Kel> my dad, who is not afraid of insects
18:51 < Andygal> whatever.
18:53 -!- PDVanished has quit
18:56 < Thatwasademo> btw i am watching skulls right now ping me if you need me
18:56 < Kel> have fun!
18:56 -!- linkhyrule5 has joined #backstage
18:57 < Kel> Hi!
18:57 < Teceler> hello
18:57 < linkhyrule5> I exist!
18:57 < linkhyrule5> I just woke up >.>
18:57 < Aestrix> Hello!
18:57 < Aestrix> Pffff
18:58 < linkhyrule5> linkhyrule5, in his natural habitat
18:58 < linkhyrule5> :p
18:58 < Kel> Yay! Existence!
18:58 < Aestrix> :P
18:58 < Kel> The most exciting thing of all!
18:59 < linkhyrule5> If only be prerequesite for the rest of things
18:59 < linkhyrule5> :p
18:59 < Kel> :P
19:00 < Andygal> Hi Link.
19:00 < linkhyrule5> helo Andygal
19:00 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - you know,, "Inertia" probably works just fine as a reification
19:00 < linkhyrule5> of Torpor
19:01 < Aestrix> Heh
19:01 < Aestrix> Isn't it used somewhere else though?
19:01 < linkhyrule5> nah, Earth used Stasis
19:01 < linkhyrule5> oh
19:01 < linkhyrule5> Momentum used Inertia
19:02 < linkhyrule5> But then, I don't think you need to be too concerned about overlap?
19:02 < Aestrix> True
19:02 < linkhyrule5> Like, if it makes sense and all...
19:02 < Kel> Inertia and Ertia?
19:02 < linkhyrule5> (Unless you just really want to do somethign totally new for your new runes on general principles :p )
19:02 < Aestrix> Nah xD
19:02 < linkhyrule5> haha
19:03 < Kel> How do reified and ephemeralized work again?
19:03 < Teceler> confusingly :P
19:03 < Aestrix> VERY confusingly.
19:03 < Teceler> reified is more concrete, empemeralized is more abstract
19:03 < Kel> Okay so like, reified momentum is Miles?
19:03 < Aestrix> Right but the words required for them don't make sense and I kind of threw my hands up in the air and gave up
19:04 < linkhyrule5> Sorry >.>
19:04 < Aestrix> It's okay.
19:04 < linkhyrule5> Turns out concept space is hard to span
19:04 < linkhyrule5> lots of dimensions >.>
19:04 < Teceler> yup
19:04 < Aestrix> :P
19:04 * Kel catches Aestrix hands with a butterfly net and reattaches them
19:04 < Aestrix> <3
19:04 < Aestrix> Thank you Kel
19:04 < Aestrix> I need my hands <3
19:04 < Kel> <3
19:05 < Teceler> XD
19:05 < Teceler> hands are useful
19:05 < Kel> "humans why??? why do you have hands?"
19:05 < Aestrix> I would be really really screwed if I didn't have hands
19:05 < Andygal> hands are awesome.
19:05 < Kel> I like them a lot!
19:06 < Aestrix> I mean, my entire livelihood kind of involves using my hands. I wouldn't be able to type, I wouldn't be able to draw, I wouldn't be able to make stuff in Maya...
19:06 < Aestrix> I would be REALLY SCREWED.
19:06 < Kel> I am glad you have hands!
19:06 < Aestrix> Yes, me too
19:06 < Aestrix> <3
19:06 < Kel> I would also not do well without
19:06 < linkhyrule5> Maya?
19:06 < Kel> I think programming?
19:06 < linkhyrule5> Also be an infomorph, solve all your problems
19:06 < linkhyrule5> :p
19:06 < Aestrix> 3-D modeling program
19:06 < linkhyrule5> ahhh
19:06 < linkhyrule5> cool
19:06 < Aestrix> Ha :P
19:07 < Kel> Is it like Solid Works
19:07 < Andygal> I transcribe for a living. So I would also be screwed without hands.
19:07 < Kel> *?
19:07 < Aestrix> Solid Works?
19:07 * Kel attaches own hands more tightly
19:07 < Kel> It's a 3D modeling program
19:07 < Kel> I think people use it to design parts they're making for things?
19:07 < Aestrix> Oh. Yes, but I'm pretty sure Maya can do way more
19:08 < Aestrix> No offense to Solid Works <3
19:08 < Kel> I don't use it, so I cannot convey the offense or lack thereof
19:08 -!- kappabeta has quit
19:08 < Aestrix> I looked it up on wikipedia
19:08 < Aestrix> The edge flow from the picture makes me twitch
19:09 < Aestrix> It hurts me :(
19:09 < sonatagreen> I find hands useful for conveying offence
19:09 < Kel> <3
19:09 < Aestrix> Ugh, n-gons, why would you do this T_T
19:09 < Kel> I think it is for like
19:09 < Kel> if you are 3d printing something
19:09 < Kel> or ordering a part of a machine?
19:09 < Kel> probably not designed for artists
19:09 < Aestrix> Maya can do that, too, I've had friends print stuff out
19:10 < Aestrix> Also some artists would argue that I am not a proper artist xD
19:10 < Kel> You are /totally/ a proper artist!
19:10 < Kel> I'm not familiar with a lot of things you do, but you did a fantastic job on BE!
19:10 < linkhyrule5> Man, I want a 3D printer >.>
19:10 < Aestrix> Thank you Kel xD
19:10 < Aestrix> <3
19:10 < linkhyrule5> ^ random note
19:11 < Kel> Also, ns, I am declaring the box Lantern gives to be made out of Steel, with some weird tempering
19:11 < Kel> which hopefully vampires are not allergic to
19:11 < Kel> (<3)
19:12 < Aestrix> I am amused at the thought of Lantern agonizing over if vampires are allergic to a certain type of metal
19:12 < Kel> Nah, that's just me!
19:12 < Aestrix> <3
19:12 < linkhyrule5> sonatagreen - so I assume that a direct scry on "How do I make Ink" returns "Spoilers~", but what about, say, scrying on D'ni craftsmen making it a thousand years ago or so?
19:12 < Kel> Lantern agonized for a bit about not wanting to do traditional copper inlays if they would freeze Lioncourt
19:13 < Kel> and then picked another steel to be pretty instead
19:13 < Aestrix> <3
19:13 < linkhyrule5> lol?
19:13 < linkhyrule5> Freeze?
19:14 < Kel> In Glazed, there is some mythology about vampire-like fey people who get frostbite from copper
19:14 < sonatagreen> I think D'ni just categorically no-sells the Entelechy. Totally orthogonal/noninteracting, like trying to represent radio in terms of human RGB retina.
19:14 < linkhyrule5> ahhhh
19:14 < sonatagreen> /However/, you could scry Lioncourt's bottle of Ink, since that's not in D'ni.
19:14 < linkhyrule5> Errr.
19:15 < linkhyrule5> Okay, we'll go with that ,since I did rule that worlds can block alethics
19:15 < linkhyrule5> (the usual rule is - "you can't see it" is fine, "you can't understand something you can see" gives me hives >.> )
19:15 < sonatagreen> Did I misunderstand how something works?
19:16 < Kel> Also Lantern has now officially previously put a present on the table
19:16 < linkhyrule5> Probably not, see parentheses
19:16 < Aestrix> *pat* *pat*
19:16 < sonatagreen> (you can't see D'ni. This does not extend to stuff originally from D'ni that's now in a world you can see.)
19:16 * Kel gently applies truth-cream to Link
19:16 < linkhyrule5> lol
19:17 < Andygal> hee.
19:17 < Aestrix> Pfff
19:18 < sonatagreen> (so it should still be in terms of visible/invisible?)
19:18 < Aestrix> Hey, Sonata, is it viable for drugs to screw with someone's mind enough to make them incapable of using QDS magic?
19:18 < Aestrix> Briefly
19:18 < Teceler> link, is ME going to track down the-character-from-D'ni-whose-name-I-am-blanking-on at the party and complain about not being able to see that world?
19:19 < sonatagreen> Well, in the trivial case drugs can make someone *unconscious*.
19:19 < Adelene> unrelated, I don't remember who was here when I posted this before, but here's a possible stat-up for cutebolds in DnD 3.5: http://pastebin.com/nPHTSr56
19:19 < Teceler> *world? :P
19:20 < Kel> Ahrotahn?
19:20 < Aestrix> Well, yes, but I was thinking more along the lines of conscious and woobly and not quite able to touch the specific headspace for QDS but still awake
19:20 < sonatagreen> In other cases... maybe. Probably it tends to vary ith the type of drug.
19:20 < sonatagreen> *with
19:20 < Andygal> does Dungeon magic have verbal/somatic components? If so, any drug that interferes with a person's ability to speak clearly or move normallycould prevent them from casting spells?
19:20 < Teceler> yes, that is the name
19:20 < sonatagreen> Some might have no effect, some might block casting, some might allow casting but screw up targeting/aiming, etc.
19:20 < Kel> Also I want to reply to Thorn, my brain thinks the proper response to this is just *hug*
19:21 < Teceler> that is a valid response :P
19:21 < Aestrix> Okay, so, thing that can happen as a result of an evil cocktail of drugs meant to suppress arcany, and QDS is another victim of it.
19:21 < Kel> I thought QDS was stasised or something?
19:21 < Kel> Or attached to objects?
19:22 < Teceler> the company, yes. the magic, no
19:22 < sonatagreen> However, it should almost never be possible for a drug to cause a caster to cast a different spell than the one they intended, or cause a spell to do something it couldn't normally do. Exceptions would have to be roughly on the level of the exsurgent virus or something from Keter.
19:22 < Adelene> Aestrix is working on Ina's assassination attempt.
19:22 < Aestrix> Mhm
19:22 < sonatagreen> Yes is a thing that can happen.
19:22 < Kel> Does Ina get assassinated?
19:22 < Teceler> 'on the level of the exsurgent virus or something from Keter' XD
19:22 < Aestrix> Actually I'm working on the assassination that would of worked if ME hadn't of intervened xD
19:23 < Kel> Awwww
19:23 < Kel> ME is a good egg
19:23 < linkhyrule5> :D
19:23 < Andygal> :D
19:23 < sonatagreen> If you have drugs that specifically suppress magic-in-general, it *might* even disrupt standing effects that were previously cast.
19:23 < Aestrix> She has skipped out on getting assassinated, but I still think it's valuable for how it would have gone without ME there
19:23 * Kel sends ME approval points
19:23 < Aestrix> Because ME knows how it would go without him there xD
19:23 < Aestrix> Mhm
19:23 < Aestrix> Thanks! >3
19:23 < Aestrix> <3*
19:24 < linkhyrule5> On that note, ME is working on a ward to, uh, make this not happen more than once :p
19:24 < Aestrix> xD
19:24 < linkhyrule5> But it might still be relevant if we visit DUngeon or something
19:24 < Teceler> which thing?
19:24 < linkhyrule5> (Or, well, more than zero times now, but)
19:24 < linkhyrule5> Drugs making you not able to cast QDS spell
19:24 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - also, queite possibly
19:24 < Adelene> Oh *that* was the thing I wanted to ask Link.
19:24 < linkhyrule5> sonatagreen - yep
19:25 < sonatagreen> link, yep to which?
19:25 < Aestrix> Hey link, want to go make a very tiny thread about ME scrying this thing?
19:25 < linkhyrule5> In terms of visible/invisible
19:25 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - sure!
19:25 < linkhyrule5> Adelene - which thing?
19:25 < sonatagreen> ah good
19:25 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - Also, I figured out how to best describe Primordial dragons.
19:25 < Teceler> hm?
19:25 < linkhyrule5> Three words: Sufficiently Advanced Magic.
19:25 < Teceler> ahahaha
19:26 < Adelene> Link: If things arrange in such a way that Lurker suggests that ME scry the couple months after she got back from the tigerpeopl (I did tell you about that, right), how's that likely to go?
19:26 < Aestrix> Are you doing the first post or should I?
19:26 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - Hm, I should probably do the first post, just to frame the thing in terms of "ME is futurescrying"
19:26 < Aestrix> Mhm
19:26 < Aestrix> Otherwise confusion/.
19:27 < linkhyrule5> Adelene - Dunno if that's all that interesting, though i might be modeling ME wrong. Obvious result is - mild amounts of sadness? But I don't think ME has the ... social /precision/ to be very much more careful about allowing people choices in front of Lurker
19:28 < linkhyrule5> He generally tries on general principles, and he generally will ignore that in favor of keeping people alive if he really has to, so.
19:28 < Adelene> Mm.
19:28 < sonatagreen> (oh, when I said D'ni is invisible to ME, this applies to the whole Terokh Jerooth world-cluster, and to any worlds created by the Art even if they're Written in a visible world.)
19:28 < linkhyrule5> sonatagreen - ME is very annoyed by this, I am mildly amused
19:28 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: define social precision?
19:28 < linkhyrule5> ME is probably going to go figure out a scrying spell. Maybe steal a Dungeon one :p
19:28 < Adelene> I mean, the goal there is more to show ME the importance of cultures, but.
19:28 < Aestrix> xD
19:28 < linkhyrule5> (that isn't alethic)
19:28 < linkhyrule5> Adelene - Ah, I'll think about that. Sorry, I just woke up, my brain is at like 25% atm
19:29 < sonatagreen> (however, the Books themselves are as visible as the world they're currently located in.)
19:29 < linkhyrule5> I type and talk fast but my thoughts are still sluggish
19:29 < Adelene> s'ok
19:29 -!- kappabeta has joined #backstage
19:29 < Kel> Hi kappa!
19:29 < sonatagreen> hi!
19:29 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - like, ME's thing is that he kind of treats "othe people" as a big blob
19:29 < Andygal> hi Kappa.
19:29 < linkhyrule5> it's hard for him to... tailor responses to /specific/ other people, unless he's good friends with them?
19:29 < Aestrix> Hi, Kappa!
19:29 * Kel sprinkles anti-salt upon Link-thoughts
19:29 < linkhyrule5> Or generally knows them well, or are /sepcifically trying to manipulate them/
19:29 < Teceler> hello
19:29 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
19:29 < Aestrix> xD
19:30 < Kel> Teceler, short tag
19:30 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: well that is a good policy in general. And can he, like, narrow his blobs a bit? :P
19:31 < Teceler> *subdivide his blobs
19:31 < linkhyrule5> Somewhat, but only really on the scale of "nation" or "species"
19:31 < kappabeta> hello friends
19:31 < linkhyrule5> individual people are kidn of ... normally face-blind to him
19:31 < Kel> Hi!
19:31 < kappabeta> ..."narrow his blobs"???
19:31 < linkhyrule5> haahahah
19:31 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: so he should at least be able to manage 'culture' I feel like
19:32 < kappabeta> I have just watched The Book of Life and IT WAS SO GOOD.
19:32 < Kel> " But I don't think ME has the ... social /precision/ to be very much more careful about allowing people choices in front of Lurker" - Link
19:32 < kappabeta> also
19:32 < kappabeta> I'M VERY CLEVER
19:32 < kappabeta> PRAISE ME
19:32 -!- ErinFlight has joined #backstage
19:32 < linkhyrule5> I mean, he can manage culture, but part of the problem is that, like, if Lurker and Astra are in the same room in front of him
19:32 < Kel> You /are/ very clever!
19:32 < Kel> Hi Erin!
19:32 < kappabeta> Because I figured out exactly why getting taieli is such an unutterable pain
19:32 < linkhyrule5> he reverts to "generic people-blob"
19:32 < linkhyrule5> Indeed you are, why arey ou clever today?
19:32 < kappabeta> and it makes perfect sense
19:32 < kappabeta> :D <3
19:32 < linkhyrule5> why is getting taieli a pain?
19:32 < Kel> Why is it?
19:32 * kappabeta pastes from notes
19:33 < Teceler> also if he consults dragon-icon about what the point of that excercise was (or probably generally what he messed up if we have a good idea what it is) than e will probably tell him :P
19:33 * kappabeta ... does not paste from notes
19:33 < linkhyrule5> (FYI, "getting magic is a pain" will not stop ME from trying a lot, because alethics is even more of a pain")
19:33 < kappabeta> https://etherpad.net/p/taieli
19:33 < Teceler> (XD)
19:33 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - hahaah
19:33 < kappabeta> I'm afraid ME is shit out of luck as far as shortcuts XD
19:33 < linkhyrule5> He doesn't care about shortcuts, tho, because, uh
19:33 < linkhyrule5> See Alethics
19:33 * Teceler instructs etherpad to /load/
19:33 < Teceler> ah there we go
19:33 < linkhyrule5> see spending ten years on basic proficiency
19:34 < kappabeta> (i wanted to just paste, but it came out as a giant textwall with no line breaks)
19:34 < Teceler> (eep)
19:34 < kappabeta> Anyway so basically the deal is: taieli, as a system, has a certain amount of "effective way to acquire this magic" to go around
19:34 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
19:34 < kappabeta> and if you invent a new way to give someone taieli, all the existing ways become slightly less effective
19:34 < Kel> Eva hi!
19:35 < kappabeta> They didn't know this at first
19:35 < Teceler> ...eek.
19:35 < Kel> Are Lioncourt vampires allergic to any metal?
19:35 < Eva> Hi kel!
19:35 < Teceler> hello
19:35 < Eva> Nope.
19:35 < kappabeta> so EVERYONE was constantly inventing new methods to try to FIND ONE THAT WORKED RELIABLY
19:35 < Kel> Okay /great/ Lantern was very worried
19:35 < Kel> Oh no!
19:35 < kappabeta> and of course that was highly counterproductive
19:35 < linkhyrule5> hahahaah
19:35 < Teceler> link, do not let ME at this system without that being explained first :P
19:35 < kappabeta> Then they sat down and went "okay what, in fact, the fuck is going on here"
19:36 < kappabeta> And they figured it out
19:36 < linkhyrule5> ME has probably already noticed this in the world-scry
19:36 < linkhyrule5> and will not be making new taieli granting methods
19:36 < Teceler> good
19:36 < linkhyrule5> Though he may attempt to delete old methods from the list of valid methods to make some space
19:36 < Teceler> because that seems like exactly the kind of thing he would do when faced with this problem without that information
19:36 < linkhyrule5> hahaah, yes it is
19:36 < linkhyrule5> Yes it very is.
19:37 < kappabeta> and said "okay. We are going to design an effective, EXTREMELY PERMANENT way for people to acquire taieli, and we are going to make VERY SURE that it STAYS the only way to get taieli, EVER, so NOTHING CAN FUCK IT UP FOR FUTURE MAGIC USERS"
19:37 < linkhyrule5> hahah
19:37 < Teceler> XDXDXD
19:37 < Andygal> Smart move.
19:37 < Kel> and then their universe ended?
19:37 < Teceler> and it still exists!
19:37 < ErinFlight> Hey! Back from dinner
19:37 < kappabeta> They built a bunch of safeguards in, because like
19:37 < kappabeta> if you're designing the only way anyone will ever acquire magic again
19:37 < Teceler> you want it to not fail? :P
19:37 < kappabeta> you might as well try to ensure that these people are going to be broadly reasonable
19:38 < Teceler> ah, also that
19:38 < kappabeta> like, FOR SURE it's not going to fail
19:38 < kappabeta> it is definitely the most permanent thing in their universe
19:38 < kappabeta> but also like
19:38 < Teceler> (I feel like it might have been safer to make two ways and lock them in, but that might not have worked for various reasons)
19:38 < ErinFlight> Ooh, are we talking about your new magic Kappa?
19:38 < kappabeta> Yes, yes we are
19:39 < ErinFlight> Yes, why did they decide to share their magic with the universe?
19:39 < Kel> (Oh ErinFlight, I think you accidentally replied to Lioncourt instead of to Inavet)
19:39 < kappabeta> well, I mean, it's not that they decided to share their magic with the universe
19:39 < ErinFlight> Eva, Glen gave Lioncourt a gift
19:40 < kappabeta> it's that they wanted to make it so that the ability to acquire magic would never become diluted to the point of disappearing entirely
19:40 < ErinFlight> I did (I wasn't sure who I should reply to) Should I change it?
19:41 < ErinFlight> Ah, that makes sense. Can anyone gain the magic or is the monument testing to see if you have the ability?
19:41 < kappabeta> Well... not exactly and not exactly.
19:42 < ErinFlight> Hmm, well I guess I can't get inside the mind of powerful magicians then :D
19:42 < kappabeta> What the monument *does* is make you spend nine days proving that you're a reasonable person who will pay attention to safety lectures and not start spraying Chaos around
19:42 < Teceler> XD
19:42 < Aestrix> xD
19:43 < ErinFlight> That would be a good thing to check!
19:43 < Eva> Ooh, more presents!
19:43 < kappabeta> and, like, that you are serious enough about acquiring magic to spend nine days wandering around a huge empty building talking to yourself
19:43 < Andygal> XD
19:43 < Kel> Oh on the topic of presents!
19:43 < Adelene> Sounds like something we'd actually want to throw Lurker at more than Miles.
19:43 < kappabeta> what do you mean, ade XD
19:43 < ErinFlight> Is the building alive?
19:43 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - None of this is, like, even slightly going to be a problem for ME, fyi
19:43 < Andygal> Meta!Anda is totally a reasonable person and would totally not spray Chaos all over the place.
19:44 < kappabeta> link: what do you mean by not a problem
19:44 < Teceler> kappabeta: I assume by safety lectures they're not /just/ talking to themselves? :P
19:44 < Eva> tag, Erin
19:44 < linkhyrule5> He's kind of, uh, really really patient when ti comes to magic. Has to be, 'cause of alethics
19:44 < Adelene> Lurker has more patience than Miles does.
19:44 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - I mean "he will happily walk around for several years talking to himself
19:44 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: patience
19:44 < Kel> Would Lioncourt find vines that can grow on most surfaces and glow or stop glowing when touched useful?
19:44 < linkhyrule5> if it means a new magic system"
19:44 < Teceler> :P
19:44 < linkhyrule5> hahah
19:44 < kappabeta> Yes, Lurker does have more patience than Miles does.
19:44 < Eva> Erin: Which building?
19:44 < Adelene> (I do not actually want Lurker to get taeili.)
19:44 < Andygal> Anda and Linsa have matching ridiculous responsibility complexes. :D
19:45 < Adelene> heh ^^
19:45 < Andygal> whether this is something I actually want to happen, well....
19:45 < Teceler> I feel like Miles being Miles could be applied reasonably to this, though, if he's problem-solving :P
19:45 < Teceler> (not that he will not probably look for shortcuts the whole time)
19:45 < Adelene> Lurker doesn't have *that* much of a responibility complex. ^^ She just has her baseline satisficed level at a weird place relative to human culture.
19:45 < Andygal> so many magic systems to choose fro.
19:45 < Andygal> *from
19:45 < Kel> so much fire
19:46 < Teceler> Kel: fire?
19:46 * Andygal will have to create more characters.
19:46 * Andygal wants to play with ALL the toys.
19:46 < Aestrix> xD
19:46 < Kel> most acquireable magic systems are at least slightly ablaze
19:46 < Teceler> XD
19:46 < Kel> <3
19:46 < Teceler> Kel: ah
19:46 < Aestrix> I don't think arcany is too on fire. It's not too on fire, right? xD
19:46 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - but yeah, like, I'm fine with ME not getting taieli, but this thing in particular won't really make him reluctant or anythiing :p
19:46 < kappabeta> arcany is not too on fire!
19:46 * Teceler now wants to create an acquirable magic system that is not at all on fire :P
19:46 < Teceler> no, bad brain
19:47 < kappabeta> I do not expect ME to be reluctant
19:47 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - *cough* World trees *cough* World wards *cough
19:47 < kappabeta> Miles is going to want the first slot though
19:47 < Adelene> pffffffff
19:47 < linkhyrule5> hahah
19:47 < Aestrix> Yeah but the infrastructure for those SUCKS
19:47 < kappabeta> there is only one taieli monument left and it can only do one person at a time
19:47 < linkhyrule5> ME will sit there patiently meditating for nine days
19:47 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
19:47 < linkhyrule5> Or possibly trying to clone the monument.
19:47 < linkhyrule5> Not sure which yet.
19:47 < Teceler> XDXDXD
19:47 < Kel> <3
19:47 < Andygal> <3
19:47 < Aestrix> Really, really, really sucks, I have not gotten into how much building world trees sucks, but it is a thousand foot tall tree.
19:47 < linkhyrule5> ahahahahahaha
19:48 < kappabeta> I mean, I'm saying things like "wander around a huge empty building talking to yourself" as an example of a thing one might plausibly do, but in fact the process of acquiring taieli is *active*
19:48 < Teceler> and one of them may be burned down! :P
19:48 < linkhyrule5> And requires magic sawdust water
19:48 < Andygal> He'd probably have to sit there meditating for nine days, then learn how to clone the monument.
19:48 < Kel> (I am imagining ME removing a little chunk of monument and plopping it inside a uterine replicater)
19:48 < kappabeta> and the monument fits it to the person
19:48 * linkhyrule5 snerks
19:48 < Aestrix> Yes, and requires magic sawdust water
19:48 < Teceler> XD
19:48 < kappabeta> You need taieli to build a taieli monument
19:48 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - this is all sounding like a good reason to thread the process :p
19:48 < kappabeta> hahahaha
19:49 < kappabeta> I am definitely super tempted to write up Leaf's nine days of taieli acquisition.
19:49 < Aestrix> How much does it personalize?
19:49 < ErinFlight> Sorry Eva, I was wondering if Kappa's structure was alive
19:49 < Kel> Eva (Should've Chrestomanci'd before, sorry) Would Lioncourt find vines that can grow on most surfaces and glow or stop glowing when touched useful?
19:49 < kappabeta> It personalizes to varying degrees!
19:49 < Andygal> is the goal to be challenging for the person, or meaningful or what?
19:50 < Andygal> or meainingfully challenging?
19:50 < kappabeta> Hmm, it's sort of...
19:50 < ErinFlight> You should Kappa, that'd be awesome to read.
19:50 < Kel> (do it I dare you XD)
19:50 < kappabeta> they wanted it to be flexible, because they were very sure that they couldn't predict in advance what the next million years of responsible magic users might look like
19:51 < kappabeta> and they built it with a lot of goals that it pays attention to
19:51 < kappabeta> it's... not exactly alive and not exactly conscious
19:51 < kappabeta> but it's definitely complex and you could describe it as having a personality
19:51 < Kel> What kind of personality does it have?
19:51 < linkhyrule5> I'm kidn of curious what you'd come up with for ME now :p
19:52 < kappabeta> not yet defined
19:52 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
19:52 < kappabeta> I would have to talk to you a whole lot about ME in order to figure that out! part of why I definitely want Miles to go first is so I can nail down some of the principles while there is no chance of me misunderstanding the character! XD
19:52 < Eva> That would be useful!
19:52 < sonatagreen> I want Ahrotahn to get taieli, this monument sounds /right/ up her alley.
19:52 < Eva> Kel: ^^
19:53 < kappabeta> heeee
19:53 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - hahaha, fair enough!
19:53 < linkhyrule5> ... On a side note, random thing while everyone's here:
19:54 < linkhyrule5> I am generally okay with ME failing at social, so long as I know what he's doing wrong somewhat in advance so that it doesn't feel so much like /I'm/ failing at social
19:54 < linkhyrule5> So, like, in general, if ME is about to super derp, let me know in advance, and we can laugh about it together? I will almost certainly not chagne what he does unless he's precog-ing or something similarly magic
19:54 < linkhyrule5> (which is not going to happen unless there is, like, negotiations with the King of Hell goiong on or something.)
19:55 < Kel> okay, it hasn't come up yet but I will let you know
19:56 < ErinFlight> eva, tag
19:56 < Andygal> OK.
19:57 < Kel> (it is good she isn't allergic to silver!)
19:57 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - I have entirely forgotten how to post things to my page. Give me a second >.>
19:57 < Aestrix> <3
19:57 < Aestrix> Sure
19:57 < Aestrix> Do you need help?
19:57 < linkhyrule5> Nah, I found it
19:57 < Eva> (Oh my, ruby earrings... wait, no, they're diamond, but the principle is the same. :P)
19:57 < linkhyrule5> turns out there's al ilnk called "Post"
19:57 < linkhyrule5> Eva - see above?
19:57 < Adelene> link, I might run into some trouble with that? Like in the Astra situation, I came in partway through and was responding to (Lurker's perception of) things that had already happened, with no good way to warn you before the things were committed to canon?
19:57 < linkhyrule5> Also we need a title for this
19:58 < Kel> Lyrics?
19:58 < linkhyrule5> Adelene - I mean, yeah, there's leeway for this
19:58 < Aestrix> We are starting it with him scrying Facet and learning Inkspot exists?
19:58 < Aestrix> Or just on the blurp about how Inkspot dies horribly?
19:58 < linkhyrule5> Just, do try to warn me whenever it is possible
19:58 < linkhyrule5> Mmm.
19:58 < Aestrix> ... Are we*
19:58 < ErinFlight> Yes it is Kel!
19:58 < Eva> Inkspot dies horrible?
19:58 < Eva> *horribly?
19:58 < Aestrix> Well not anymore
19:58 < linkhyrule5> I mean, do you want to thread the original worldscry?
19:58 < linkhyrule5> It never happened. :p
19:58 < Adelene> *remembers that they're supposed to be pointing out when Link does the thing, does that thing*
19:58 < Aestrix> It's been averted because ME has scrying powers
19:59 < linkhyrule5> Adelene - which reminds me, there's a thing, with Culture
19:59 < Aestrix> Hmm
19:59 < Aestrix> We should actually do the original worldscry, now that I think of it
19:59 < linkhyrule5> which is in the back of my mind and I will get back to you with an answer
19:59 < Adelene> ok
19:59 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - fun! I'll do that then
20:00 < Eva> (So Erin... You place a crystal somewhere, and then you can teleport there?)
20:00 < kappabeta> what is "the thing" that link was doing?
20:00 < linkhyrule5> .... oh right
20:00 < linkhyrule5> uh, oops. Sorry Adelene.
20:01 < Adelene> a thing such that if I actually wanted to point it out in public I would have done that. S'ok, Link.
20:01 < ErinFlight> Eva, you hold a crystal and travel anywhere you know the location of or have been before.
20:01 < Eva> !!!
20:02 < ErinFlight> :D
20:02 < Aestrix> Throwing parties for the MWF: very lucrative business.
20:02 < Eva> Such nice presents!
20:03 < Aestrix> Yes!
20:03 < linkhyrule5> hahah
20:03 < ErinFlight> Eva, you do have to "know" the location though. So if it's a place you've heard of through rumor it won't work.
20:03 < Kel> Also, Eva, of seeds for a tree that produces homes, a bush that produces berries that catch on fire for a few seconds when their juice is exposed to air, or a tree covered in scales that shimmer in colors between purple, blue, and green (like shimmery fused glass), which would Lioncourt like best?
20:03 < linkhyrule5> ME is defiitely thinking about holding the post-WoD party :p
20:03 < ErinFlight> We should do a multi-universe secret santa
20:03 < Eva> I mean, where else can you get your own personal universe gifted to you
20:03 < Kel> <3
20:04 < Eva> Ooh! That would be fun.
20:04 < ErinFlight> linkhyrule5: Who's ME?
20:04 < linkhyrule5> Meletiti Entelecheiai
20:04 < linkhyrule5> Nobody but me can spell that on the first try tho :p
20:04 < Eva> ^ And that's why we call him ME.
20:04 < Aestrix> I have no idea how you rattle off that name so easily
20:04 < Andygal> Nope.
20:04 < kappabeta> excuse me :P
20:04 < Aestrix> I have been copying and pasting it dutifully
20:04 < kappabeta> Meletiti Entelecheiai
20:04 < Aestrix> Rather than trying to type it up myself
20:04 < linkhyrule5> Okay fine.
20:04 < linkhyrule5> :p
20:04 < kappabeta> XD
20:05 < Kel> Secret Santa:
20:05 < Kel> "Oh wow it's seeds. They say they've been edited to be useful. I wonder who it could /possibly/ be from"
20:05 < sonatagreen> I have to think for a couple seconds about the vowels at the end, but I can generally do it. I just don't bother.
20:05 < ErinFlight> If I tried to spell that I would fail. Thank you for the acronym.
20:05 < Aestrix> I've been trying to pronounce it, because that will help me be able to spell it on my own.
20:05 < Eva> hee
20:05 * Andygal is too lazy to bother. Everyone knows what ME means, unless I'm trying to talk about Mass Effect at the same time.
20:05 < Eva> ... Hey, there's a thought
20:05 < Teceler> XD
20:05 < Eva> Endovior_, are you there?
20:05 < linkhyrule5> MEH-leh-tee-tee En-teh-LEH-chay-ay.
20:05 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix ^
20:05 < Aestrix> Thank you
20:06 < linkhyrule5> I would've used IPA but that would've been more effortful and probably not actually any more useful
20:06 < ErinFlight> That's worse than trying to pronounce Cthulhu.
20:06 < linkhyrule5> :p
20:06 < Adelene> So in other news, what approximately is the plan with the lantern rings? Specifically, is Miles going to go meet the lanterns to get his?
20:06 < linkhyrule5> Is not! Cthulhu lacks vowels :p
20:06 < Kel> I have been "Meh-luh-TEE-tee En-teh-luh-kai
20:06 < Adelene> 'u'
20:06 < Kel> *"
20:06 < ErinFlight> True
20:06 < linkhyrule5> Adelene - I think the plan is basically "ME and Miles show up in the relevant universe and the next free rings go "MINE""
20:06 < linkhyrule5> so hard they spontaneously Orange for asecond
20:06 < linkhyrule5> :p
20:06 < Teceler> XD
20:07 < kappabeta> hilariously, I think ME managed to forget to give Miles or Cordelia his name, so they've both just been avoiding having to call him anything because "Meletiti Entelecheiai" is too long to say multiple times in a single conversation
20:07 < kappabeta> pfffff
20:07 < Adelene> pft
20:07 < linkhyrule5> hahaahah
20:07 < Andygal> Erin: Cthulhu is strictly impossible to pronounce correctly.
20:07 < Kel> <3
20:07 < Aestrix> xD
20:07 < linkhyrule5> ME will tell Miles his name when he asks him to spellbook him at the end ofthe party
20:07 < Andygal> also link: lol.
20:07 < kappabeta> hee
20:07 < ErinFlight> I know, it bothers me :/ What do I think when I'm reading it?
20:07 < Kel> And now I am supper
20:07 * Andygal imagines violet and indigo rings tackling Anda and Linsa.
20:07 -!- Kel is now known as Kelsupper
20:08 * Andygal is not sure who would get which.
20:08 < kappabeta> hahahaha
20:08 < ErinFlight> Andygal, how do you do that?
20:08 < Aestrix> ... What the heck does Rae get?
20:08 < Aestrix> Orange?
20:08 < Teceler> /me
20:08 < Andygal> Erin: /me
20:08 < Aestrix> In the weirdest orange ring of all time?
20:08 < kappabeta> XD
20:09 < Aestrix> "I WANT YOU ALL - to be free to be owned by yourselves."
20:09 < Andygal> it's kind of like reverse orange!
20:09 < Aestrix> "YOU ARE ALL MINE TO take care of and give fair chances to so that you may all grow as people and be the little mortals I love."
20:09 < Adelene> *giggle*
20:09 < Teceler> ...I am kind of imagining the ring going 'I want to see how this works'! XD
20:09 < Aestrix> Heheh xD
20:09 < Andygal> :D
20:10 < sonatagreen> I think Rae could be a great blue lantern.
20:10 < Aestrix> That too, he could be a good blue lantern
20:10 < Aestrix> Violet or indigo, too, violet would be hilarious.
20:10 < ErinFlight> thanks!
20:10 < Aestrix> "I AM THE GOD OF DESERT WINDS. Holder of the ring of LOVE."
20:10 < sonatagreen> (I still think jokers are violet but apparently they disagree with me)
20:11 < Eva> I think Rae's indigoish.
20:11 < Aestrix> Jokers as I know them are very violet because they are very - in happy situations, I think.
20:11 < sonatagreen> Might be.
20:11 < Aestrix> Hmm. I think he could do indigo but he wouldn't be great at it because it's not exactly compassion that fuels him.
20:11 < Aestrix> Violet would be better for him of those two
20:11 < sonatagreen> But even in unhappy situations, I feel like, where they get strength from versus what hurts them, is pretty violet?
20:12 < Eva> tag, Erinflight
20:12 < Andygal> I feel like Perinixu would get indigo?
20:12 < Aestrix> ... xD
20:12 < sonatagreen> Oooh yes
20:12 < Aestrix> Perinixu would likely get orange because while she chooses to do compassionate things, and wants to help her followers, she is very 'It's all about me' about it.
20:12 < kappabeta> hahaha
20:12 < Adelene> *nodnod*
20:12 < Aestrix> Like, her followers are not there to help people, her followers are to represent HER helping people, because SHE IS FANTASTIC
20:13 < sonatagreen> I almost think like, Raezenoth is not so much a blue lantern as the Blue Entity
20:13 < Adelene> (Lurker was very o.O about Pix supposedly being indigo.)
20:13 < Aestrix> .... xD
20:13 < Aestrix> Does blue have an entity?>
20:13 < sonatagreen> I assumed they all did
20:13 < Adelene> I was reading, I don't remember blue specifically but I think they all do, yeah.
20:13 < Aestrix> Ah, yep, they have a bird thing
20:13 < Adelene> Indigo does.
20:15 < Aestrix> I'd give Inkspot indigo before I'd give Perinixu or Rae indigo, honestly.
20:15 < Adelene> That I'd buy.
20:15 < Aestrix> Peri... Actually I think she only works with orange. Maybe green.
20:15 < Aestrix> But mostly orange.
20:16 < Aestrix> Not one of the crazy oranges, but orange. xD
20:16 < Andygal> actually I think Anda and Linsa would both be more indigo than violet.
20:18 < Aestrix> ... Rae could rock white.
20:18 < Aestrix> I think actually of all of them he would PREFER to rock white, wow, that's interesting.
20:18 < kappabeta> haha
20:19 < Adelene> <3
20:20 < Aestrix> "Hey what lantern would you be blue's pretty good for you and so is violet and you're just kind of bad at all of the other side of the spectrum personally."
20:20 < Aestrix> Rae: "Have you considered that you are missing the one that I would pick."
20:20 < Teceler> XD
20:20 < Adelene> hee ^^
20:20 < Aestrix> Me: "... Huh? Oh! Wow, okay."
20:20 < Aestrix> Rae: "Yes."
20:21 < Andygal> Anda would pick White! Linsa would probably actually still pick indigo.
20:21 < Adelene> (My understanding is that the rings pick the wearers rather than the other way around though?)
20:21 < Aestrix> Yeah
20:21 < Aestrix> But I meant in like... Which of these rings is BEST for him
20:21 < Andygal> Yeah, I was just saying if they had the choice.
20:21 < Adelene> *nod*
20:21 < Aestrix> Hmmm
20:22 < kappabeta> Miles needs to start on blue. He agrees with me about this.
20:22 < Aestrix> White > Violet > Blue > Green > Orange > Indigo > Yellow > Red, for Rae's best to worst, not including black because I have no idea how we're playing that.
20:22 < kappabeta> He COULD start on green but it would be terrible for his potential
20:22 < Aestrix> Aww xD
20:23 < kappabeta> Miles needs to start on blue and then move to dual-wield with green when he's been soloing blue for long enough to get used to it
20:23 < Adelene> *nod*
20:23 < kappabeta> ...also, re: power ring acquisition, I wonder if they even need to go to the universe
20:23 < kappabeta> can a power ring be wished
20:23 < Andygal> A lot of the householding philosphy as it relates to a channel's role is about placing their bodies and wills to stand against death (as caused by Simes attacking Gens).
20:24 < Adelene> Meanwhile I do want Lurker to get indigo but I kinda want it to be less by fiat than you seem to be saying for Miles and ME?
20:24 < Aestrix> Heh <3
20:24 < Andygal> so Meta!Anda is like "affirmation of life, yes please!"
20:24 < kappabeta> what do you mean by fiat, ade?
20:24 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix: https://meletiti-entelecheiai.dreamwidth.org/780.html
20:25 < linkhyrule5> I mean, the current plan is for us to walk into thoe universe and the rings kind of pounce on us
20:25 < linkhyrule5> which is kind of fiat-y
20:25 < Adelene> Like - 'Miles goes to this universe, poof, here is a ring, okay let's go do something else now and not explore the ring's backstory or contex at all
20:25 < linkhyrule5> (Unless I've misunderstood the plan)
20:25 < Adelene> yeah
20:25 < Adelene> Like, that *works* for Miles and ME, I think?
20:25 < linkhyrule5> Though tbf, there will definitely be ring backstory exploration because ME is oging to check to see if he needs to take apart the White Lantern for spare parts >.>
20:25 < kappabeta> I don't think I had really planned it even that far
20:25 < Adelene> But it works much less well for Lurker.
20:25 < kappabeta> pfff
20:25 < kappabeta> but >> (9:23:56 PM) kappabeta: can a power ring be wished <<
20:26 < sonatagreen> I think Dungeon Wish would probably not make a power ring, it seems more like an artifact than a magic item
20:26 < linkhyrule5> Powerful magic wielders are only allowed to stay powerful magic wielders if they're actually using that power at neutral-or-better
20:26 < kappabeta> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
20:26 < linkhyrule5> if they're sitting on it... fine, he won't meddle. If they're doing good with it, great! If they're pulling canon BS under the guise of being incomprehensibly "good", ahahaha, no, spare parts.
20:26 < sonatagreen> (also, in general if you want my attention you should say my name)
20:26 < kappabeta> oh dear.
20:26 < Andygal> yeah ME is nosy.
20:27 < Adelene> and meddlesome.
20:27 < Teceler> will ME at least consult with other people in this process?
20:27 < linkhyrule5> Nosy, yes, also generally concerned for people getting murdered and nonconsensually tu rned into elemental spirits
20:27 < linkhyrule5> I mean. That will be part of the process?
20:27 < Eva> Y'know, if the power rings are ultimately in aid of the 'fix the WoD' plan, you could say that the first hurdle towards 'fix the WoD' is "acquire power rings', and then we again have a way to say what 'enough backstory' for the rings is.
20:27 < Adelene> meddelsome! ^.-
20:27 < linkhyrule5> Yup
20:27 < kappabeta> eva: ??
20:27 < Eva> Destiny things!
20:28 < linkhyrule5> But like, in general, there is not allowed to be nonconsensual murder in the world, and murderers do not get to keep magic. He will find someone else to give magic to, or just /fix the magic system outright/ if he can
20:28 < linkhyrule5> (he won't destroy thi ngs until he's sure he can fix them, though)
20:28 < linkhyrule5> (and by sure I mean /sure/, precog + *actually made a backup Lantern*)
20:28 < kappabeta> "murderers do not get to keep magic" XD
20:28 < linkhyrule5> :D
20:28 < Andygal> meanwhile Meta!Anda: *finds out if strange magical artifact is likely to explode, disrupt self-control, or do something else unfortunate* NO? Ok then.
20:28 < Adelene> (~meddlesome~)
20:29 < Teceler> ...um, link, I think consensual murder is by definition not murder :P
20:29 < linkhyrule5> hahahahahah
20:29 < linkhyrule5> Nonconsensual killing then :p
20:29 < linkhyrule5> Adelene - very, when it comes to Life's Sake. :p
20:29 < Adelene> yes. ^^
20:30 < linkhyrule5> Aesetix - https://meletiti-entelecheiai.dreamwidth.org/780.html
20:30 < Kelsupper> Eva! BE is planning to give 2 species of seeds to Lioncourt! seeds for a tree that produces homes, a bush that produces berries that catch on fire for a few seconds when their juice is exposed to air, a tree covered in scales that shimmer in colors between purple, blue, and green (like shimmery fused glass), or a fruit that BE personally thinks tastes good, w
20:30 < Kelsupper> which would Lioncourt like best?
20:30 < Kelsupper> ^out of those
20:30 < Teceler> like, if he is actually getting second opinions and checking context, that is somewhat less problematic? But on the other hand I feel like LInk is likely to explode at least one social thing the process /anyway/
20:30 < Aestrix> Yep, tagging
20:30 < Eva> 15 points = Rings, which would be a major milestone towards 'fix the WoD'. Destiny also means that we can say it takes at most three failed plans or five successful plans to acquire power rings!
20:30 < Kelsupper> (one is already the glowvine)
20:30 < linkhyrule5> haha
20:31 < Adelene> (Would BE have some way of knowing what Lioncourt would like, Kel?)
20:31 < Kelsupper> (oh point)
20:31 < Eva> Kel: Why not all of the above, to make sure? :P
20:31 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - Probably. Though when it comes to people /that powerful/, his standards are pretty high
20:31 * Andygal thinks "tastes good" is likely to be *extremely* subjective.
20:31 < linkhyrule5> Just "there was a good reason" wasn't enouugh, there needs to be "and there weren't better ways"
20:31 < Kelsupper> BE is worried that there will be a future gift giving occasion and she will have used up all teh good stuff
20:32 < linkhyrule5> *cough* Hawkgirl *cough*
20:32 < Andygal> especially given dramatically different biology.
20:32 < kappabeta> hawkgirl?
20:32 < Kelsupper> Okay, are there any of those that would be actively /offensive/ to give for reasons I'm missing?
20:32 < linkhyrule5> *cough* 'Balance of lilfe and death' when you're running around resurrecting people willynilly *cough*
20:32 * Kelsupper agrees
20:33 < Kelsupper> oh I need to fix name!
20:33 -!- Kelsupper is now known as Kel
20:33 * Kel agrees!
20:33 * Eva just went 'it's wierd that plant people eat plants' and then realized just exactly how stupid that is
20:33 * Andygal ponders supper.
20:33 < Teceler> XD
20:33 < Kel> <3
20:33 < Andygal> XD
20:33 < Adelene> pft
20:33 * Andygal thinks it's weird that plant people eat anything.
20:33 < Andygal> in the traditional sense.
20:34 < Teceler> I mean, the only other thing for them to do would just be photosynthesize
20:34 < Kel> and there is a /lot/ of competition for light
20:34 < Teceler> *to be to just photosynthesize
20:34 < Kel> and more would be needed because they move around and think
20:34 < kappabeta> eva: I think it seems weird for them to have to Try Several Different Things in order to acquire power rings, like, it's a weird framework to apply to the process especially because we haven't even decided everything about the world yet
20:35 < Eva> True!
20:35 < linkhyrule5> Also, like, the power rings thing is really just
20:35 -!- linkhyrule5 has left #backstage
20:35 < Teceler> er
20:35 -!- linkhyrule5 has joined #backstage
20:35 < kappabeta> ...X
20:35 < linkhyrule5> ....
20:35 < kappabeta> XD
20:35 < Aestrix> xD
20:35 < linkhyrule5> >.>
20:35 < Aestrix> Ahahahaha
20:35 < Andygal> >.>
20:35 < Teceler> /er/
20:35 < Teceler> XD
20:35 < kappabeta> link what did you do <3
20:35 < Aestrix> That was some great timing
20:35 < linkhyrule5> Turns out
20:35 < Aestrix> Absolutely brilliant <3
20:35 < kappabeta> "the power rings thing is really just" [FLEES THE ROOM]
20:35 < linkhyrule5> there's a key combo that breaks out the current chat into a new window
20:35 < linkhyrule5> in XChat
20:36 < Aestrix> Ahahaha <3
20:36 < Teceler> ...
20:36 < linkhyrule5> and then I closed the window and that DCed me
20:36 < linkhyrule5> >.>
20:36 < Andygal> <3
20:36 < Aestrix> xD
20:36 < Teceler> XD
20:36 < Kel> :d
20:36 < linkhyrule5> But yes that was amazing timlely
20:36 < linkhyrule5> *timing
20:36 < Teceler> yeah, you have to drag it back into the relevant area I think
20:36 -!- Sky has joined #backstage
20:36 < Teceler> hello
20:36 < Andygal> Hey.
20:37 < Aestrix> Hello
20:37 * Andygal continues to ponder supper.
20:37 < linkhyrule5> But yeah, basically just "Either the Power RIngs like you or not"
20:37 < Teceler> Andygal: food is useful
20:37 < linkhyrule5> there's not really a lot of ... things to try, unless you're trying to seriously shanhai the rings
20:37 < Teceler> if it is time for food you should eat
20:37 < linkhyrule5> and/or force the choice
20:37 < Teceler> XD
20:37 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - tag thingy
20:37 * Andygal imagines ME collecting ALL the power rings.
20:37 < linkhyrule5> dd that get through?
20:37 < linkhyrule5> hahaahah
20:37 < Andygal> and handing them out at the neck party.
20:37 < Andygal> *next
20:37 < Kel> wait no :D
20:37 < Kel> Was that on purpose?
20:37 * Kel is cackling
20:37 < Kel> Hi Sky!
20:38 < linkhyrule5> ..
20:38 < linkhyrule5> neck party
20:38 < Sky> hiya
20:38 < linkhyrule5> that's kind of a hilarious idea tho
20:38 < linkhyrule5> "And /you/ get a power ring! And /you/ get a power ring!"
20:38 < Andygal> I have no idea how I managed that typo.
20:38 < Kel> Guess who's officially previously been at this party the whole time!
20:38 < Teceler> XD
20:38 < Teceler> Kel: Who?
20:38 < Aestrix> Tag thingy?
20:38 < Kel> Lantern!
20:38 < Kel> Also, how old is Kit?
20:38 < linkhyrule5> Eva - "Astra, you get Indigo, for compassion."
20:38 < linkhyrule5> :p
20:38 * Teceler guessed correctly, muahahaha
20:38 < Kel> <3
20:38 < Sky> Kit is 6
20:38 < Teceler> ...XD ME
20:39 < Aestrix> Where are you tagging me, link? xD
20:39 < linkhyrule5> Ah, so it /didn't/ get through
20:39 < linkhyrule5> https://meletiti-entelecheiai.dreamwidth.org/780.html
20:39 < Aestrix> No it did xD
20:39 < linkhyrule5> ten thousand facets
20:39 < Adelene> The Destiny thing could be less 'get power rings' and more 'learn how to use power rings well enough to apply them to this'?
20:39 < Aestrix> I thought you meant another thing
20:39 < Aestrix> "What? Where, I already have one tag, where are you putting the other?"
20:39 < Kel> For some reason I thought Kit was 12
20:39 < linkhyrule5> lol
20:40 < linkhyrule5> Is Kit not 12ish?
20:40 < Kel> Kit is 6
20:40 < linkhyrule5> I got the impression Kit was 12ish
20:40 < linkhyrule5> oh wow
20:40 < linkhyrule5> okay
20:40 < Sky> I'm aiming for 6, anyway. hoping I hit it closeish enough.
20:40 < Andygal> I thought Kit was like 8.
20:40 < Sky> 8; I'll take it!
20:40 < Kel> I'm pretty sure Kit is the closest person in the forum to Lantern's age
20:41 < kappabeta> hahaha oh? how old is lantern
20:41 < Eva> That would make more sense, Adelen.
20:41 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, derp, she doesn't ac nearly old enough for 12
20:41 < Kel> ~13
20:41 * Teceler contemplates the /actually/ 12ish character she is considering introducing to the forum.
20:41 < linkhyrule5> wait really
20:41 < Kel> Lantern would be delighted!
20:41 < Adelene> *nudges Link*
20:41 < linkhyrule5> do they have different years?
20:41 < Eva> > Astra with an Indigo ring
20:41 < Kel> They do!
20:41 * linkhyrule5 headdessk
20:41 < Eva> Actually surprisingly likely.
20:41 < Teceler> huh, that is not how Lantern reads
20:41 < Sky> cool, Kit will be glad once she realizes Lantern is not an adult
20:42 < Andygal> Eva: That would be a really weird kind of indigo.
20:42 < Kel> How old /does/ Lantern read?
20:42 < Teceler> I don't know, Lantern does not really read as a certain age to me?
20:42 < Andygal> me either.
20:42 < Kel> I can adjust +- 2 years
20:42 < Sky> I read Lantern as variable and it's clouded by the grammar, 12 to adult would be unsurprising
20:43 < linkhyrule5> Lantern reads as young adultish, I would be unsurprised by 13 but I was deinitely reading more as 20
20:43 < Eva> Yep.
20:43 < Teceler> yeah, the grammar kind of fuzzies my sense of that kind of thing
20:43 < Kel> Right
20:43 < Kel> Oh hey Eva's here!
20:43 < Andygal> Yeah.
20:43 < Kel> Eva, would the text-translation cover 3-D text in Lantern's language?
20:44 < Andygal> the weird grammar makes it hard to tell those kinds of things.
20:44 < Aestrix> I realized that Prism might be the oldest person on the forum, except for Astra. xD
20:44 < Kel> XD
20:44 < kappabeta> ...aestrix
20:44 < kappabeta> the keeper.
20:44 < Aestrix> Or the various gods.
20:44 * linkhyrule5 headdesks
20:44 < Teceler> XD
20:44 < Aestrix> True
20:44 < Kel> <3
20:44 < Aestrix> But the oldest mortal person :P
20:44 < kappabeta> And Esthfora.
20:44 < kappabeta> XD
20:44 < Aestrix> I said the various gods!
20:44 < Kel> who is ageless?
20:45 * linkhyrule5 is now tempted to bring in Eirin
20:45 < Kel> because /linear/ time???
20:45 < kappabeta> Esthfora is indefinitely old
20:45 < kappabeta> XD
20:45 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta: Madoka.
20:45 < kappabeta> ...what about madoka
20:45 < linkhyrule5> "I am 14, 14 billion and 14, and NaN!"
20:45 < linkhyrule5> "These are all valid ages for me!"
20:45 < kappabeta> XD
20:45 < Sky> how old /is/ the keeper at this point?
20:45 < kappabeta> <3
20:45 < Teceler> XD
20:45 < kappabeta> NaN
20:45 < kappabeta> XDD
20:45 < linkhyrule5> :D
20:45 < Kel> I could smudge Lantern to be 14? for more plausibility?
20:45 < kappabeta> The keeper is not NaN years old. she is. um.
20:46 < kappabeta> the keeper is manylots old
20:46 < Teceler> XD
20:46 < Aestrix> xD
20:46 < Teceler> is this centuries, millenia, etc?
20:46 < kappabeta> It is many and lots.
20:46 < Aestrix> Lantern seems like a fine 13 year old, don't worry about it Kel
20:46 * Teceler can't remember the scale up from there
20:46 < kappabeta> I don't think there's a word for the thing after millennia
20:46 < Adelene> more or less than a googolplex?
20:46 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - ... soooo five?
20:46 < Kel> hella
20:46 < linkhyrule5> :p
20:46 < Andygal> heee.
20:47 < kappabeta> once you are counting in chunks of time bigger than a thousand years you're on your own
20:47 < linkhyrule5> Or is that 45?
20:47 < kappabeta> hahahahahahaha
20:47 < linkhyrule5> or 6, it could also be 6.
20:47 < Teceler> XD
20:47 < Kel> decades, centuries, millenia, hella
20:47 < Aestrix> <3
20:47 < kappabeta> The keeper is old enough that she has definitively stopped bothering to notice time passing, which took at least a good solid few centuries.
20:47 < kappabeta> The keeper is hella old.
20:47 < Teceler> Kel: I can kind of see it now that I think about it, though I think Lantern might be the kind of person that feels older than they actually are anyway.
20:48 < Aestrix> xD
20:48 < Andygal> the keeper doesn't give a damn.
20:48 < Teceler> XD
20:48 < Kel> How /many/ hella old, though?
20:48 < Teceler> Kel: though that might just the grammar
20:48 < Eva> Kel: Yes.
20:48 < Andygal> the keeper doesn't give a damn about a lot of things.
20:48 < Kel> Okay great!
20:48 < kappabeta> If someone decides to put a number to how old the keeper is, I will be very tempted to make this impossible so I don't have to invent one.
20:48 < Kel> That will make the instructions in the present not totally useless!
20:48 < Kel> So she's 20 hellas old?
20:49 < Teceler> XD
20:49 < kappabeta> XD
20:49 < Andygal> XD
20:49 < kappabeta> She is at least one hella old.
20:49 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix: that is an adorable magitech music box.
20:49 < Aestrix> :)
20:49 < Kel> <3
20:50 < Kel> (I will keep at 13 Earth years: around 15 Glazed years and work out the details later, then. Thanks guys!)
20:50 < sonatagreen> I think you can just do the same key combo again to re-merge the window
20:50 < linkhyrule5> yes you can
20:50 < linkhyrule5> good to know
20:50 < Andygal> and the keeper has been stuck alone for that long.
20:50 < Kel> Is anyone planned to be the next present?
20:50 < Teceler> does anyone want to listen to me ramble about my character concept? :P
20:50 < Kel> Yes!
20:51 < Teceler> after I tag DL back though I think
20:51 < Kel> *give
20:51 < Kel> <3
20:51 < kappabeta> tec: hell yes
20:51 < Teceler> because I keep forgetting that
20:51 < Teceler> XD
20:51 < Andygal> though I suppose having access to a ridiculous amount of information is a good distraction.
20:51 * Kel piles non-virulent poofs upon Thorn
20:51 < Teceler> the keeper does not seem to like dealing with people anyway
20:51 < kappabeta> the keeper is downright delighted with her thousands of years of isolation
20:51 < Sky> Hey Teceler, wanna wrap up the thread with Tyche and Kit?
20:52 < Andygal> probably because they like to ask her to do things.
20:52 < kappabeta> XD
20:52 < Teceler> Sky: ...for some reason I thought we'd /done/ that, oops
20:53 < Teceler> Kel: tag
20:53 < Andygal> the thought of that much isolation would make Anda cry a lot if she thought about it too much. And then she would want to hug the keeper.
20:53 < kappabeta> the keeper would be confused about this urge XD
20:53 < Andygal> XD
20:53 < kappabeta> the keeper likes being alone with her infinite expanses of air and rock.
20:53 < kappabeta> It is soothing.
20:53 < Teceler> the keeper is /weird/ :P
20:53 < kappabeta> The keeper is not what you might call a people person.
20:54 < Kel> the keeper should not be reflected by Aspen just in case of fire
20:54 < kappabeta> hahahahahahahaha
20:54 < Andygal> ...bwahaha.'
20:54 < Teceler> XD
20:54 < kappabeta> keeper: "What. No."
20:54 < kappabeta> keeper: "Why are there now two of me."
20:54 < Teceler> XD
20:54 < Andygal> bwahaha.
20:54 < kappabeta> keeper: "This is untidy."
20:54 < Kel> how inelegant
20:54 < Kel> <3
20:54 < Aestrix> xD
20:54 < kappabeta> i love how when the keeper gets disgruntled she asks questions without the question marks XD
20:54 < Teceler> XD
20:54 < Kel> <3
20:55 < kappabeta> ^^
20:55 * kappabeta scoops her up
20:55 < Kel> I am often surprised by how much I like the keeper
20:55 < kappabeta> who's the cutest disgruntled death goddess!
20:55 < Kel> she is!
20:55 < Andygal> bwahahaha.
20:55 < Kel> yes she is!
20:55 < Andygal> I am also surprised by how much I like her.
20:55 < sonatagreen> she is *amazing*
20:55 < Aestrix> Heeeee
20:55 < Kel> Also, does anyone want to call the next present?
20:55 < kappabeta> XD
20:55 * Eva watches Astra pout in a corner.
20:55 < kappabeta> heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
20:55 * Andygal suspects the keeper would also be surprised by how many people like her.
20:55 * Kel scoops up Astra
20:55 < Adelene> *applies Lurker to sad Astra* ^^
20:56 < kappabeta> The keeper would so be surprised by how many people like her XD
20:56 < kappabeta> hee
20:56 < Eva> <3
20:56 < Teceler> XD
20:56 * Kel doesn't know what to say and sends the /concept/ of affection at her
20:57 < Teceler> so, the concept is, basically, that someone was working on communications magitech. They had a prototype and had to leave on an unexpected trip so gave some of the nodes to people for communication purposes. It turns out, when you separate these nodes for long/far enough, the network connects to the forum! oops!
20:57 < Kel> Neat!
20:57 < Andygal> Meta!Anda hugs Astra. meta!Anda does not like to see people pouting in corners.
20:57 < Andygal> even if they are destruction goddesses out to destroy the multiverse.
20:57 < Kel> And this person is 12?
20:57 < sonatagreen> I vaguely hunch that the keeper would find concept-of-affection directed toward her somehow unwelcome.
20:57 < Teceler> the problem is that this idea requires at a bare minimum 3 characters. All of which I have concepts for, but augh
20:57 < Kel> You could just not write them?
20:57 < kappabeta> oh hey so speaking of connections to the forum, sonatagreen, do you want to figure out how MS connects to Subjective/Home
20:57 < Teceler> no, the 12ish person is one of the people given the nodes
20:57 < sonatagreen> politely
20:58 < Teceler> XD
20:58 < Kel> <3
20:58 < sonatagreen> is how
20:58 < kappabeta> hahahahahaha
20:58 < Kel> acausally?
20:58 < kappabeta> I mean like - unlike most worlds the forum connects to, Subjective is going to *notice*
20:58 < Kel> I am off to try and make nonalcoholic butterbeer!
20:58 -!- Kel is now known as Kelaway
20:58 < Teceler> And I know how to introduce them, they are writing someone and notice that forum ohmy. why is it doing this thing.
20:58 < kappabeta> so there will probably be some communication there before she or any of her occupants start posting
20:58 < Teceler> good luck!
20:58 < kappabeta> <3
20:59 < Adelene> Does Subjective herself get the connection?
20:59 < sonatagreen> I think so, yes
20:59 < Andygal> d'awwwww.
20:59 < Teceler> I was about to say, the first step here should probably be to talk to Subjective
20:59 < sonatagreen> MS basically offers a connection to Subjective, like 'here, you can talk to me if you want'
21:00 < Aestrix> Link, how in depth do you want me to go with my world explanations?
21:00 < Teceler> d'aww
21:00 < kappabeta> should we onscreen this communication somehow before Subjective acquires a forum account and starts posting?
21:00 < sonatagreen> and maybe Subjective makes an account, or maybe she passes the connection on to her inhabitants
21:00 < Aestrix> I have explained world trees and how it is a nice place to live but don't know if I should dump the awful government on you or ease you into that
21:00 < kappabeta> heh
21:00 < Andygal> It's a scrying spell it probably gets everything at once.
21:00 < sonatagreen> onscreening could be fun, do you want to dreamwidth it?
21:00 < kappabeta> yeah!
21:01 < Andygal> oooo!
21:01 < kappabeta> I think I'm going to make Subjective another facedouble with Esthfora and the Keeper, for personal mythology reasons
21:01 < Aestrix> True. Everything at once, then, unless Link doesn't want to for Reasons
21:01 < sonatagreen> I will start I think
21:01 < kappabeta> k
21:01 < kappabeta> brb
21:01 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - as in depth as you want! :p ME is focusing on "how the world works"
21:01 < linkhyrule5> but yeah, that also means things like "how the government works" and so on
21:01 < Aestrix> Aha
21:01 < Aestrix> Government explanations, then <3
21:01 < linkhyrule5> whole hierarchy and local stuff too
21:01 < Sky> personal mythology reasons?
21:02 < Aestrix> What do you mean by hierarchy?
21:02 < linkhyrule5> He's staying away from personal history but as noticed before he'll notice that Inkspot is on a tiny little thing
21:02 < Aestrix> Mhm
21:02 < linkhyrule5> *network
21:02 < linkhyrule5> Like, rough organization at large scales and and small
21:02 < Aestrix> *nod*
21:04 < linkhyrule5> forr the real world America, say, he'd get "here's how National government works, here's how the Senate works, current general political leanings (but not individual party members or anything), here's the two major parties, so on
21:04 < linkhyrule5> here's how the State government works, similar ini broad aspects, blah blah
21:04 < Aestrix> xD
21:04 < linkhyrule5> here's how county, city, etc."
21:04 < Aestrix> Okay <3
21:04 < kappabeta> personal mythology reasons: Esthfora and the keeper both have roots in some stuff I was writing when I was like, 11-14, and I'm bringing back the third point in their triangle in the form of Subjective
21:04 < linkhyrule5> ... He would probably also get a culture writeup, but I dunno how much of that you have already written, so
21:05 < Andygal> heeeee.
21:05 < linkhyrule5> Basically, it's "Someone has taken a course on Facet for, oh, a semester or so"
21:05 < linkhyrule5> "What do they know?"
21:05 < Teceler> XD
21:05 < kappabeta> only none of the class was lies.
21:05 < Teceler> XDXDXD
21:05 < linkhyrule5> ^ ha, yeah
21:05 < kappabeta> as opposed to if they had taken the course *on* Facet.
21:05 < linkhyrule5> hahahahah
21:05 < kappabeta> :D
21:05 < Andygal> *snerk*
21:06 < Adelene> Eva, would it be useful to you to have a list of the remaining gifts?
21:07 < Aestrix> Heh. I will make due <3
21:07 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: so, tangentally, because this just occurred to me, I feel like Erebus is liable to actively resist scrying in some places. Specifically, the rules of how the world works. (There are also likely to be wards that would block it, but ME could bruteforce his way past those if he really wants, except maybe the ones on the vaults)
21:07 < Adelene> There's only like six gifts left, you may want to start poking specific people.
21:07 < linkhyrule5> ME is probably going to Clever his way around the wrds rather than bruteforce them, due to Entelechy things
21:07 < Teceler> Sky: okay, so, wrapping this up, what do you want to do?
21:07 < linkhyrule5> Is this the world with the 12 year old? I thik I lost track of the conversation
21:08 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: I don't feel like that would work, except in the case of looking at things around it
21:08 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: no, this was prompted by the world-scrying conversation. This is Cassiel's world.
21:08 < linkhyrule5> virtual experiments, watching locals do experiments, that sort of thing
21:08 < linkhyrule5> ahhhh
21:08 < linkhyrule5> what's the thing with the other thing. The 12 year old and the long-distance prototype crystal network?
21:09 < Eva> adelene: Maybe, yes?
21:09 < Adelene> Anda and Linsa's
21:09 < Adelene> Sif Muna's (book)
21:09 < Adelene> Verdigris's (large box)
21:09 < Adelene> Dr. Stone's (books)
21:09 < Adelene> Royce Bracket's
21:09 < Adelene> Tyche's (info packet)
21:09 < Andygal> Anda and Linsa's gift was opened already.
21:09 < Sky> Teceler: I'm thinking, like, they each have a post where they find somewhere to sit, I don't see much else happening
21:09 < Eva> Tyche's is the cube
21:09 < Teceler> oh, the rules of the world, yeah, he can probably get what is /known/ about them (except in cases where that only exists in the heads of people who are warded), but not /how they actually work/
21:09 < Adelene> Ok
21:10 < Eva> So that leaves Sif, Verdigris, Stone, Bracket, and I think also Botanical Engineer?
21:10 < Teceler> Adelene: Tyche & Thorn's was opened too, yes
21:10 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: which thing with that thing?
21:10 < Adelene> There were a cube and an info packet listed separately on the gift table subthread :P
21:10 < Teceler> Sky: okay
21:10 < sonatagreen> kappa, does Subjective gender?
21:11 < kappabeta> Subjective girls.
21:11 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - yeah, but he can do a thing where he goes "If I did this thing in the world, what happens?"
21:11 < kappabeta> I mean, in a "universe" sort of way, but she girls.
21:11 < Eva> Also, Lantern
21:11 < Eva> so five gifts left
21:11 < linkhyrule5> and then he can automate that spell to just output the likeliest lws
21:12 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: I'm not sure he will get coherent results there (or any results). hm.
21:12 < Teceler> like, I feel like that might be blocked by the thing blocking direct scrying
21:12 < linkhyrule5> I mean, if the thing is a person, that actually kind of makes it more vulnerable, because he'll make memetic attacks out of his scrying attempts
21:13 < kappabeta> what
21:13 < Adelene> Rude.
21:13 < Andygal> .....
21:13 < Adelene> Rude human.
21:13 < kappabeta> so rude!
21:13 < linkhyrule5> Not /mean/ ones
21:13 < Teceler> yeah, um, ME, what
21:13 < Adelene> Rude!
21:13 < kappabeta> not mean ones???
21:13 < linkhyrule5> Just "don't notice the next attempt"
21:13 < kappabeta> what!
21:13 < Andygal> Firewall: NO BAD.
21:13 < linkhyrule5> It's the equivalent of "Look behind you!"
21:13 < linkhyrule5> It's not like it's /rewiring their mind/
21:13 < Adelene> Rude!
21:13 < Aestrix> xD
21:14 < Teceler> ...I'm not sure if it's a it's a person, but if it is to a degree I do not feel like it would be vulnerable to that kind of thing
21:14 < linkhyrule5> I guess....
21:14 < kappabeta> XD
21:14 < Andygal> ruuuuuude!
21:14 < Teceler> yeah, that's still rude
21:14 < Teceler> XD
21:14 < linkhyrule5> If you say so
21:14 < Adelene> (*patpats Link*)
21:14 < linkhyrule5> ME thinks making it hard to figureo ut how physics works is rude :p
21:14 < Teceler> XD
21:14 < kappabeta> If ME ever chances to mention that he would do that as a matter of course if attempting to scry a new universe, Miles is going to have moral opinions at him :P
21:14 < Teceler> that is also fair
21:14 < Teceler> but, um
21:15 < Teceler> Sky: so a thing just occurred to me, and got included in the tag. Also, tag
21:16 < sonatagreen> kappabeta, https://between-the-stars.dreamwidth.org/428.html
21:16 * Andygal suspects Lurker would bite him.
21:16 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - ME will have opinions right back :p. ME is fine with /personal/ privacy, not so much with universal privacy
21:16 < linkhyrule5> unless the universe is actually a person Subjective wise
21:17 < linkhyrule5> but not,, say, Gauntlet wise
21:17 < Andygal> the Gauntlet is kind of an asshole.
21:17 < linkhyrule5> (Also he tends not to care what people who run a universe as awful as Erebus want. Though Erebus isn't /that/ bad on our scale, but that's because the WoD tips it so much :p )
21:17 < linkhyrule5> hahhaa
21:17 < kappabeta> hahahahahahahahaha
21:17 < kappabeta> oh my god XD
21:17 < Aestrix> "As bad as your world is, it isn't as bad as the WoD!"
21:17 < Adelene> (Lurker will not bite ME over this, Subjective is not a tribemate yet. But she will think that he's rude.)
21:18 < kappabeta> hee
21:18 < Teceler> well, I'm pretty sure that at least some of the reasons that they're there are that /people in the past abused certain subsets of the laws and that is part of the reason the universe is so bad/)
21:18 < Teceler> er
21:18 < kappabeta> sonatagreen: tag
21:18 < Teceler> I never opened a parenthesis, why did I try to close one
21:19 < Aestrix> I actually suspect Facet's on the nice end of the scale because like. Aside from the horrible censoring government that will magically cripple you the first chance you give them and the immortality sacrifices and absolute totalitarianism, it's a nice place to live.
21:19 < Teceler> apart from all of those things
21:19 < Aestrix> Yes.
21:19 < Aestrix> Apart from all of those things. xD
21:19 < Adelene> At least you don't have /cannibal/ elves. ^.-
21:19 < Teceler> XD
21:19 < Aestrix> Yes
21:20 < Teceler> that is true
21:20 < kappabeta> I mean, cannibal elves, "lock you up and torture you for eternity to make me immortal" elves...
21:20 < Aestrix> But I mean, they also all live 10,000 years, all of them have decent living situations, natural disasters aren't a thing, the planet is very stable...
21:20 < kappabeta> I just don't see much to choose between them
21:20 < Aestrix> Ahahahaha
21:20 < Sky> Teceler: heh. tag.
21:20 < Teceler> basically, Facet is reasonably nice for the average person, where as Carp... is not that thing
21:20 < Adelene> *nod*
21:20 < Aestrix> Yep
21:21 < sonatagreen> Lurker: I warned you about elves bro! I told you dog!
21:21 < Adelene> heeeee *nodnod*
21:21 < Aestrix> But for the people Facet's unpleasant for, it is REALLY UNPLEASANT.
21:21 < Aestrix> Ahahahaha
21:21 < Teceler> yeah
21:21 < Andygal> *snerk*
21:21 < Aestrix> Inavet: "... Um?"
21:21 < Adelene> We are also kinda getting a biased view of Carp. For most people who aren't kobolds it's a bit more livable.
21:21 < Aestrix> Inavet: "It's sort of unfair to judge my entire species by the terrible people in charge..."
21:21 < Andygal> but there are still giant monsters made of snot.
21:22 < linkhyrule5> hahahaah
21:22 < Teceler> Adelene: I am using DF as my baseline for non-kobold Carp here
21:22 < Andygal> in Carp.
21:22 < Teceler> that does not paint a very promising picture :P
21:22 < Adelene> ...There aren't *many* giant monsters made of snot? And you can mostly ignore them if you aren't a kobold or animalperson?
21:22 < linkhyrule5> ....
21:22 < Teceler> XD
21:23 < Aestrix> Oh, also, Facet's taken out mosquitoes.
21:23 < Aestrix> Because fuck those guys.
21:23 < Adelene> I mean, that 'a bit' qualifier was there for a reason. :P ^^
21:23 < Teceler> XDXDXD
21:23 < Andygal> XD XD XD
21:23 < Teceler> Everyone, we must move to Facet /immediately/, they do not have mosquitoes!!!
21:23 < Teceler> :P
21:23 < Aestrix> <3
21:23 < Andygal> After Inavet overthrows the government.
21:24 < Andygal> they also have giant trees.
21:24 < Andygal> and cool magic.
21:24 < Teceler> After Inavet overthrows the government it might actually be a reasonable thing to do, which was not the point there :P
21:24 < Aestrix> After Inavet overthrows the government she will try to persuade the government she's not super in charge of to maybe let in people that want to move there
21:24 < Eva> thatwasademo: Oh dear, bones level
21:26 * Andygal realizes that Anda and Rae should talk about how kids end up getting sold by their parents. That is a thing that Rae should find out about.
21:26 < Teceler> ...yes, yes it should
21:26 < Aestrix> Rae: *flips desk*
21:26 < Aestrix> Rae: "THAT IS NOT OKAY."
21:27 < Teceler> Sky: tag
21:27 < Teceler> er
21:27 * Teceler missed a pronoun-error
21:28 < Teceler> okay, /now/ tag
21:28 < Sky> hm. Kit probably has a fine enough view where she is and wouldn't think of it anyway, is that worth a tag?
21:28 < Andygal> meta!Anda thinks it's a pity Rae cannot teleport people.
21:28 < Adelene> This is a Very Solvable Problem. :P
21:28 < Aestrix> <3
21:29 < sonatagreen> kappabeta, tag
21:29 < Aestrix> Yep
21:29 < Aestrix> When Lurker can add MP Rae will get the ability to make a gate
21:29 < Teceler> Sky: I can edit it to talk about watching the coronation instead?
21:29 < kappabeta> <3
21:29 < Adelene> Also, Rae knows Miles.
21:29 < Teceler> if that works better for you?
21:29 -!- Kelaway is now known as Kel
21:29 < Sky> Teceler: that sounds probably best
21:29 * Kel sips butterbeer!
21:29 < Andygal> mmmmm....
21:30 < Aestrix> That too. Rae has just sort of silently decided that Miles is his go to person for when Rae would like to teleport shit
21:30 < Kel> <3
21:30 < Kel> Eva, could the next present be BE's if nobody else volunteers?
21:30 < Eva> Sure!
21:30 < Kel> Yay
21:30 * Kel goes to write that thing!
21:31 < Teceler> okay, Sky, re-tag
21:31 < Teceler> if you want to reply to that
21:31 < Adelene> Rae can probably figure out that it's worth PMing Lurker if Miles appears to be AFK. This is super effective; Lurker needs less sleep than Miles does.
21:31 < Aestrix> Mhm
21:31 < kappabeta> heeeeee
21:31 < Teceler> XD
21:32 < Andygal> Meta!Anda would fully support the rescue of young Gens from being sold at auction as Choice Kills (because Gens who have *not* been drugged all their lives are more "interesting" to kill)
21:32 < Kel> Mother Starlight is /cute/ and wonderful
21:32 < sonatagreen> Thank you!
21:32 < Kel> <3
21:33 < Sky> Teceler: I think is done, looks good?
21:33 < Aestrix> Seconding that statement, Mother Starlight is great <3
21:33 < Andygal> Yes, the society is quite fucked up and could use cleaning out with a hose.
21:33 < Teceler> Sky: okay
21:33 < Teceler> Andygal: augh
21:33 < linkhyrule5> Andygal: Can you guess what ME's reaction to that is?
21:33 < Adelene> Is it fire?
21:33 < linkhyrule5> Go on and guess
21:33 < Adelene> I bet it's fire.
21:33 < Andygal> Linkhyrule: Does it involve things being on fire?
21:34 < Aestrix> Um. Wait, what? That's a thing, Andygal? More 'interesting' to kill?
21:34 * linkhyrule5 snerks
21:34 < Teceler> I mean, literal fire would probably be counterproductive
21:34 < Teceler> :P
21:34 < Aestrix> Rae and Inavet are making a sound together in my head.
21:34 < linkhyrule5> Contagious shields for everyone, is what I what I was thinking
21:34 < linkhyrule5> but yes
21:34 < linkhyrule5> fire
21:34 < Kel> /carefully/ /applied/ literal fire?
21:34 < Andygal> Aestrix: Yes. I said it was fucked up.
21:34 < Aestrix> That is super fucked up, oh my god
21:34 < Teceler> as I said. Augh.
21:34 < linkhyrule5> so much augh
21:35 < Aestrix> Rae wants to go fix all of that.
21:35 < Aestrix> All of it.
21:35 < Kel> Can gods here do the thing the gods from Incandescent!Pantheon could
21:35 < linkhyrule5> ME has apparently not already seen this world yet
21:35 < linkhyrule5> or he would already be fixing some of the stuff
21:35 < Andygal> He could take them, or he could teleport them to the nearest Householding.
21:35 < Kel> where they go to another world and get worhsippers there?
21:35 < Aestrix> Yep
21:36 < linkhyrule5> at least the actual physical killingness
21:36 < Andygal> the Householdings would appreciate the latter.
21:36 < kappabeta> sonatagreen: tag ^^
21:36 < Kel> <3
21:37 * Kel wishes to hug Subjective/Home
21:37 * Teceler adds those to the list of people who should be teleported to the nearest Householding asp
21:37 < kappabeta> :D
21:37 < Andygal> along with all the kids in changeover from Gen controlled areas.
21:37 < Teceler> yes, that was the existing list
21:38 < Teceler> and yes Subjective should have hugs
21:38 < Andygal> with a note to their parents that they are safe and out of the way.
21:38 < Andygal> and not going to kill anyone.
21:38 < linkhyrule5> I mean, I suspect that ME would not try to teleport people places without, like, actual research
21:38 < linkhyrule5> the only thing he'd be willing to just "I see this I fix it now" is the actual deaths
21:38 < Andygal> although you might need to rainbowtruth said notes.
21:39 < Teceler> Andygal: what happens if the notes are not rainbowtruthed?
21:39 < Andygal> Teceler: They might start a panic about a potential loose Sime.
21:40 < Kel> (brb)
21:40 * Teceler wonders what will happen if it starts getting around that the kids in changeover are all spontaneously disappearing
21:40 < Teceler> Andygal: that is reasonable, though
21:41 < Andygal> Linkhyrule: also ME better have a plan to make sure the Simes can all access a channel. Otherwise they will all die off.
21:41 < Andygal> and nobody wants that.
21:41 < Andygal> probably.
21:41 < kappabeta> pff
21:42 < sonatagreen> kappabeta, tag
21:42 < Adelene> Lurker: >:|
21:42 < kappabeta> lurker at what?
21:43 * Andygal notes that they are not in fact inherently evil and don't deserve to die horribly.
21:43 < linkhyrule5> Andygal - he will deal with that in timestop, probably
21:43 < Teceler> Andygal: they are kind of hard to save, though
21:43 < linkhyrule5> it is goign to be "shield timestop next measure"
21:43 < Adelene> "also ME better have a plan to make sure the Simes can all access a channel. Otherwise they will all die off. and nobody wants that. probably."
21:43 < linkhyrule5> hahahahah
21:43 < linkhyrule5> also brb dogs
21:43 < Andygal> hahhaah.
21:44 < Teceler> I feel like if it's a matter of 'I let them die off, or I can keep letting them murder a much greater number of people than they are' then, well
21:44 < Adelene> Lurker will be annoyed if you don't at least try, though.
21:44 < Kel> (back)
21:44 < Adelene> Well, if ME's involved anyway. *chuckle*
21:44 < Teceler> that is not the /optimal/ solution, though, with the amount of magic MWF has there is probably a better solution
21:44 < Aestrix> Welcome back
21:44 < Teceler> welcome back
21:44 < Andygal> Anda will also be annoyed.
21:45 < Andygal> if they are simply allowed to die en-masse.
21:45 < Kel> oh kappabeta
21:45 < kappabeta> sonatagreen: tag
21:45 < Teceler> I mean, point the ones who are young enough not to be stuck yet at the Householdings. The others are harder.
21:45 < kappabeta> Home wishes to join the forum :D
21:45 < kappabeta> yes, kel?
21:45 < Teceler> d'aww
21:45 < Andygal> Meta!Anda thinks even if they don't like channels, given the choice between co-operating with channels or dying horribly most will decide to be sensible.
21:46 < Kel> not urgent now, and it is up to you, but if you do want, it could be possible for Miles to learn spiritcraft?
21:46 < kappabeta> oo. nifty.
21:46 < kappabeta> Miles is always keen on new magic shit
21:46 < Kel> <3
21:46 < Teceler> Andygal: yes, but isn't there the thing where if they've been killing people too long they /can't/ work with the channels and survive longterm?
21:46 < Andygal> Teceler: That's true. But MWF is made of hax.
21:47 < Kel> Aspen will probably not suggest it or hint that it /could/ be possible unless it seems like there is actually something going on that requires it
21:47 < Adelene> Lurker can probably fix that.
21:47 < Kel> But my thought was, Aspen /pushes/ some copy-spirits at Miles and he can try to do stuff with them
21:47 < Kel> and then be able to do stuff with other spirits if Nexus cooperates
21:48 < Teceler> Andygal: yes. But I'm optimizing for low-power here because that seems like a more interesting thing than 'throw lots and lots magic at it'. Because, I mean, that is pretty obvious how it ends :P
21:48 < kappabeta> Nexus usually cooperates with new magic systems XD
21:48 < Kel> Nexus is very nice!
21:48 < Kel> In that respect
21:48 * Andygal bets the Eclipsites could come up with a drug, given enough time and genetic sampling.
21:48 < Teceler> Nexus is generally a fairly nice world, by MWF standards
21:48 < Andygal> also doesn't Lurker need to be able to see something to affect it?
21:48 < Adelene> Carp medical magic largely runs on telling a body 'you're supposed to be like *this*' and empowering it to grow that way - that seems like a thing that should be able to fix simes for a number of values of 'fix'.
21:49 < Kel> Oh hey is anyone planning to use outrageous amounts of secret magic to break up the clone transplant business?
21:49 < Andygal> Anda can see the addictedness, but has no way to point it out to Lurker.
21:49 < kappabeta> It's on Miles's "as soon as I have time" list, the clones thing
21:49 < Teceler> secret magic is not even necessary I think? Eclipse tech could probably fix it easily
21:49 < Adelene> Lurker needs an example to work from, but she knows baseline humans and will presumably have met at least one non-addicted sime.
21:49 < Kel> <3
21:49 < Kel> Right, but the MWF is secret
21:49 < Kel> I think?
21:50 < kappabeta> Yes, MWF is secret in Nexus.
21:50 < kappabeta> ...heh.
21:50 < Teceler> yeah, but they could probably sell it as a new invention, I feel like
21:50 < kappabeta> Nifl might be quietly moving on the clones business while Miles is busy
21:50 < Aestrix> xD
21:50 < Kel> <3
21:50 < Teceler> XD
21:50 < Adelene> (The 'see something to fix it' limitation is on abstract qualities, not medical stuff.)
21:50 < Kel> Why /did/ she pick "Nifl"
21:50 < Kel> ?
21:50 < Kel> the name I mean
21:51 < kappabeta> Moriarty -> Napoleon -> Nibelungen -> Niflungar -> Nifl
21:51 < Andygal> Of course, Anda will insist on clearing the whole thing with her Sectuib (the leader of the Householding) before allowing people to go to town on her world.
21:51 < Kel> <3
21:51 < Kel> (I googled and it suggested football)
21:51 < Andygal> which will also give a chance for the rest of the Householdings to be notified before kids start getting teleported to them en masse.
21:51 < Teceler> that would be useful!
21:51 < Kel> which is good!
21:53 * Andygal thinks the Sectuib is pretty reasonable and probably will OK the association with the forum. Or at least some of the forumites XD.
21:53 < Andygal> although he might stare at a wall for a while first.
21:53 < Adelene> heee.
21:53 < Teceler> XD
21:53 < Teceler> why the staring at a wall?
21:53 < Andygal> "What..."
21:53 < Kel> (was Anda there for the delicious choko?)
21:53 < Andygal> (Nope)
21:53 < Adelene> (*presents him with a kobold to scritch during his wall staring*)
21:53 < Kel> (<3)
21:56 < Andygal> Adelene: hehehehehe.
21:58 < Andygal> Sectuib: *scritches kobold* "Oh...alright..."
21:59 < Adelene> ^^
21:59 < Kel> (awwwwww!)
21:59 < Aestrix> Oh, hey, Link, you're actually able to catch my reference to Fate/stay night for what the Facet immortality victims experience. :D
21:59 < Adelene> It would not actually be especially hard to talk Lurker into doing that, if you think it woul help. :)
21:59 < Kel> Were the worms of darkness constantly eating people a fate/stay night reference?
22:00 < Aestrix> Kinda, yeah. Not quite in the same way
22:00 * Andygal notes that Simes have extra parts to scritch with! Well sort of, tentacles do not have fingernails on them.
22:00 < Aestrix> Mine are less. Um. Sexual.
22:00 < Kel> (Steve appreciates that)
22:00 < Aestrix> <3
22:00 < Adelene> Interesting. And kinda weird. Lurker will be intrigued. ^^
22:00 < Andygal> ^^
22:00 < Kel> (they reeeally freaked him out)
22:01 < Aestrix> Really?
22:01 < sonatagreen> kappabeta, tag
22:01 < Aestrix> He didn't seem super freaked
22:01 < Kel> He went and calmed down elsewhere before actually reporting
22:01 < Aestrix> xD
22:01 < Aestrix> I'm sorry Steve!
22:01 < Aestrix> Not that sorry!
22:01 < Aestrix> But a little!
22:01 < Kel> <3
22:01 < Kel> Mean God!
22:02 < Aestrix> Yes :3
22:02 < Kel> (he got to experience it for a fraction of a second while he was looking at it during a weird traffic incident nearby)
22:02 -!- ErinFlight has quit
22:02 < Aestrix> Oh dear.
22:02 < Aestrix> Because of Facet or because Night Vale?
22:02 < Kel> Because Night Vale
22:02 < Aestrix> xD
22:02 < Aestrix> <3
22:03 < Andygal> <cuddles Steve>
22:03 < Kel> <3
22:03 < kappabeta> sonatagreen: tag
22:03 * Aestrix pets Steve.
22:03 < Andygal> Meta!Anda: At least the laws of physics in my universe behave themselves and do not do weird thinks like put insects in people's blood.
22:03 < Kel> (Steve is slightly confused by all these strangers offering affection)
22:04 < Aestrix> <3
22:04 < Kel> Meta!Steve: Hey! Those are perfectly harmless!
22:04 * Andygal d'awwwwws at Subjective.
22:05 < Kel> Heh, Many!
22:05 < Kel> Worlds!
22:05 < Aestrix> <3
22:05 < Kel> Subjective is cute and I am worried about what kappa is going to have happened to her
22:05 < kappabeta> hehehehehehehe
22:06 < Aestrix> I am worried about how Subjective will react to ME after Mother Starlight said no one would hurt her
22:06 < kappabeta> I do find it kind of darkly hilarious that Mother Starlight is totally legitimately going to protect Home from forum-transmitted harms and then ME is going to innocently poke her with sharp sticks.
22:06 < Aestrix> xD
22:06 < Andygal> Meta!Anda prepares to defend Subjectie with a shovel.
22:06 < kappabeta> XD
22:06 < Eva> thatwasademoooooooooooo
22:06 < Kel> oh no
22:06 < Andygal> Meta!Linsa perfers a rake.
22:07 * Eva is having problems with Crawl.
22:07 < Aestrix> I mean personally I would just talk to ME and explain the situation
22:07 < kappabeta> hehehehehe
22:07 < Aestrix> And go, "Do not poke this universe, okay dear? Go poke Facet, Facet is very pokable."
22:07 < kappabeta> XD
22:07 < Kel> that will not save Subjective from kappa, though!
22:07 < Andygal> this assumes MS thinks about it.
22:07 < Andygal> I am not sure MS has enough idea of what ME gets up to.
22:07 < sonatagreen> To what extent can MS avoid giving ME enough information to specify valid scrying targets without cutting off his access to the forum entirely?
22:08 < kappabeta> So far it is not known to anyone involved that someone on the forum might be able to poke Home with sharp sticks! XD
22:08 < sonatagreen> because this might or might not fall under 'the forum is nonconductive to magical effects'
22:08 -!- ErinFlight has joined #backstage
22:08 < Andygal> wb Erin.
22:08 < ErinFlight> Thanks :)
22:08 < Kel> Hi!
22:08 < ErinFlight> What are you guys talking about?
22:09 < Kel> Subjective is joining the forum!
22:09 < sonatagreen> Subjective is going to join the forum!
22:09 < Andygal> Subjective is adorable and ME is going to make her sad.
22:09 < Aestrix> ME poking Subjective with a sharp stick
22:09 < Kel> may I link?
22:09 < sonatagreen> yep
22:09 < Kel> https://between-the-stars.dreamwidth.org/428.html?style=site&view=flat#comments
22:09 < kappabeta> :D
22:09 < ErinFlight> Awww!
22:10 < Kel> ME is planning to save changing Sime/Gen kids from being murdered!
22:10 < kappabeta> I am very tempted to have her make one or two posts and then thread "ME attempting to scry Home" with link and then have Home's next post be a new thread that just reads "OW"
22:10 < Andygal> Meta!Anda side-eyes ME, if you hurt the poor sad baby universe I will hit you with my shovel.
22:10 < Kel> oh no
22:10 * kappabeta snuggles the poor sad baby universe
22:10 < Kel> Wait, I feel like there should be a different amount of intentional thing
22:10 < Kel> about that
22:10 < Sky> aww Subjective
22:10 < kappabeta> hmmkel?
22:10 < ErinFlight> Is subjective/home the baby universe's name?
22:10 < Eva> Kel
22:10 < kappabeta> yes
22:11 < Andygal> yes.
22:11 < Kel> Like, ME is bad at social, and looking at people doesn't normally hurt them, and he is sometimes thoughtless but not evil
22:11 < Eva> Were you going to tag me at some point...?
22:11 < Kel> I am typing the thing
22:11 < Eva> Okay!
22:11 < Kel> I keep changin mind about details
22:11 < Kel> I will go ahead and post as is
22:11 < Kel> and poke me if something is wrong or bad?
22:11 < sonatagreen> kappabeta, tag
22:11 < Kel> Eva, posted
22:12 < kappabeta> sonata, tag and i think we're done :D /makes account
22:12 < sonatagreen> :D
22:12 < Kel> :D!
22:13 < Andygal> :D
22:13 < Andygal> It's too bad most characters are ICly still at the party.
22:13 < Kel> This could be Later and we could introduce Time Shenanigans?
22:13 < Teceler> well, icly the party happened several days at this point I think
22:13 < Teceler> *days ago at
22:13 < Andygal> Time Shenanigans.
22:13 < sonatagreen> I've been posting as Ahrotahn while the party was still threading
22:14 < sonatagreen> which, uh, maybe I shouldn't have, but w/e
22:14 < Adelene> *makes a sad noise at Time Shananigans*
22:14 < Eva> that's okay with me?
22:14 < Kel> I have been mostly too overwhelmed by party to also forum at the same time
22:14 < sonatagreen> Ahrotahn can probably still get the forum on her KI even if it can't connect to the Lattice, so it could go either way
22:14 < Adelene> I don't want to have to figure out what languaged!Lurker sounds like until I don't need to write as base!Lurker any more, because the former might break me for the latter. :(
22:14 < Aestrix> Ina's similarly allowed to access the forum via cheaty crystal magic xD
22:15 < kappabeta> alas time shenanigans
22:15 < kappabeta> But I think maybe the party might be done sooniiiiiiiish? XD
22:15 < Kel> I hope not!
22:15 < Adelene> We still have cake to do!
22:15 < kappabeta> .../prods themes
22:15 < Andygal> We have one or two more threads planned?
22:15 < Kel> So many characters /just/ got here!
22:15 < Adelene> Lurker needs to maybe cuddle Lioncourt!
22:15 < Kel> (because I took a long time)
22:15 < Kel> Eeeeee!
22:15 < kappabeta> By "sooniiiiiiiiiish" I mean, like, "within the next few days to a week" XD
22:15 < Eva> tag, Kel
22:16 < Eva> Soonish!
22:16 < kappabeta> the length of the iiiiiiiiish
22:16 < kappabeta> was meant to indicate that
22:16 < Adelene> Lurker will only cuddle Lioncourt if Lioncourt needs cuddles, but Lurker thinks that this is likelyish and will be lurkering around to check. ^^
22:16 < Kel> Sooniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiish?
22:16 < Adelene> heh
22:16 * Andygal wonders if Anda/Linsa should meet ME at some point during the party so that ME will have an excuse to get curious, scry and then go "wtf, I fix this now."
22:17 < Kel> ME needs no excuse for curiosity!
22:17 < Aestrix> xD
22:17 < Aestrix> Yep
22:17 < Andygal> I mean a lot of this stuff is availible on the forums already, because long ranty post but...
22:17 < Aestrix> He is naturally curious on his own
22:17 < Eva> There's two more gifts from Demo, then MagicPhd, Royce, and Lantern
22:18 < Thatwasademo> boop
22:18 < Eva> and then I believe that is all the presents
22:18 < Eva> Hi thatwasademo
22:18 < Andygal> summoned a demo!
22:18 < Eva> Draconic Ice Elementalist
22:18 < Eva> ... Manifested red.
22:18 < Eva> T_T
22:18 < Thatwasademo> HA
22:18 < Andygal> The universe hates you.
22:18 < Thatwasademo> actually that might be a good thing
22:18 < Aestrix> I don't understand the significance of this but I will make a sympathetic noise.
22:18 < Thatwasademo> you have both hot and cold attacks now
22:18 * Aestrix makes a sympathetic noise.
22:18 < Eva> hee
22:19 < Kel> <3
22:19 < Andygal> Red draconic: "Noooooooo!"
22:19 < Eva> Also there's a bones level in my dungeon
22:19 < Eva> (eek, experienced MiFi)
22:19 < linkhyrule5> Aextrix: Oh dear. Comparisons to F/SN torture experiences is extremely unfortunate :p
22:20 < linkhyrule5> Should I be thinking "Sakura" or "Grail mud"?
22:20 < Adelene> http://crawl.akrasiac.org:8080/#watch-Evangeline still works maybe?
22:20 < Thatwasademo> it's not so much bones level as "there is a ghost here"
22:20 < Eva> tag, Kel
22:20 < Kel> okay
22:20 < Aestrix> Sakura.
22:20 < Kel> thanks!
22:20 < Aestrix> Less sexual, though
22:20 < Aestrix> More 'OH GOD YOU ARE STUCK HERE FOREVER.'
22:20 * Andygal got killed by ghosts several times playing crawl.
22:21 < Andygal> why are ghosts such a pain?
22:21 -!- Endovior_ is now known as Endovior
22:21 < Aestrix> Let me go find my explanatory sentences to Kel when I first decided to do this thing
22:21 < Eva> Ghosts are the ghosts of previous players.
22:21 < Thatwasademo> sometimes ghosts were really good or had spells that are particularly effective against players
22:21 < Eva> As such, they tend to have good gear and stats.
22:22 < linkhyrule5> sonatagreen: Not, really. The existence of a world called Subjective connected to the forum is pretty much enough >.>
22:22 < Eva> Plus, a player might die on a level they were overleveled for due to cockiness
22:22 < kappabeta> well, a world called Home, but yes XD
22:22 < Eva> At which point that ghost is now really tough compared to everything else around
22:22 < Aestrix> Sent you an IM, link
22:22 * Andygal suggests setting them on fire, freezing them, and electocuting them at the same time.
22:22 < linkhyrule5> ME can do the thing if kappa really wants, but is going to be genuinely sorry about it?
22:23 < sonatagreen> Of course, this can only happen once before Mother Starlight goes "hey Esthfora, can you make this stop happening please?"
22:23 < linkhyrule5> Also if Subjective /actually identifies as a universe/ like Esthfora she will count as a person?
22:23 < Endovior> Speaking of "Bones" does "Mr. Bones' Wild Ride" mean anything to anyone present?
22:23 < linkhyrule5> And while ME will go "okay, uh, general parametrs of what sort of being you are? Also how genuine are you?" he's not going to actually really ... /probe/
22:23 < Aestrix> *raises hand*
22:23 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: yeah, but ME doesn't know that because he can't get any data
22:23 < kappabeta> haha
22:23 < Aestrix> You never get off of Mr. Bones' Wild Ride.
22:23 < Endovior> (also speaking of "OH GOD YOU ARE STUCK HERE FOREVER." for that matter)
22:23 < Aestrix> :)
22:24 < linkhyrule5> (Sapient worlsd are high-power enough that he kind of wants to check their moral compass if he can get away with it, but otherwise are firmly "people" and so are not going to get their privacy invaded)
22:24 < linkhyrule5> (He can not notice if plot or kappa ants tho)
22:24 < kappabeta> Home's first few posts to the forum aren't going to be terribly informative about her actually-definitely-a-world status, I don't think.
22:24 < Thatwasademo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTgFtxHhCQ0
22:24 < kappabeta> She's still getting used to this whole "direct communication" thing
22:24 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: I feel like the 'only getting junk data' would prevent him from telling that the world is sapient, though, and if -- that
22:24 < Kel> Eva, tag!
22:24 < Andygal> also linkhyrule5: should ME meet Anda and Linsa to have an excuse to be curious enough to do a worldscry on their world, or is he going todo a worldscry without meeting them?
22:24 < Kel> (is that okay or should there be more detail or information?)
22:25 < Endovior> I briefly considered doing a thing where 'free theme park tickets' were distributed on a forum-ly basis, but that particular exploit seems to have been patched.
22:25 < Aestrix> Ahahaha <3
22:25 < Andygal> ahahahaa.
22:25 < Endovior> Which is fortunate, because nobody wants to be captured by an evil version of the Keeper
22:25 < kappabeta> free theme park tickets? XDDD
22:25 < Aestrix> I am imagining Rae on Mr. Bones' Wild Ride.
22:25 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - Ah. How charming.
22:25 < Andygal> Endovior: meep!
22:25 < Aestrix> :D
22:25 < linkhyrule5> and by "charming" I mean "not"
22:25 < Aestrix> Aw, you make me sad
22:26 -!- ErinFlight has quit
22:26 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - ME will know that if Subjective claims to be a universe on the forum first :p
22:26 < linkhyrule5> Endovior: OH GODS WHY
22:26 * Andygal thinks a version of the keeper that actually evil, rather then just indifferent would be bloody terrifying.
22:26 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta, - ah, okay
22:26 < Andygal> Downside was bad enough when the admin wasn't actually evil.
22:26 < linkhyrule5> Also I've been catching up this entire time
22:26 < linkhyrule5> and chatting as I go
22:26 < kappabeta> <3
22:27 < Endovior> THE RIDE NEVER ENDS
22:27 < linkhyrule5> so I notice answers like f ive minutes later
22:27 < linkhyrule5> in case it wasn't obvious.
22:27 < kappabeta> haha
22:27 < Teceler> XD
22:27 < Aestrix> Should I explain Mr Bones' Wild Ride?
22:27 < kappabeta> <3 link <3
22:27 < kappabeta> Aestrix: do
22:27 < Endovior> Feel free
22:27 < Aestrix> Hee
22:27 < linkhyrule5> Anyway, so yeah, checking IMs now
22:27 < Eva> tag, Thatwasademo, give me another gift since you have far too many
22:27 < Aestrix> Let me see if I can find the thing for it first, because it does a better job than I do
22:27 < linkhyrule5> and yeah, kappabeta - we can do the thing, ME would naturally not do the thing, but it is possible if he doesn't get enough information and he will be sorry afterwaards
22:27 < Aestrix> http://imgur.com/gallery/Wxzbl
22:27 < Aestrix> Found it
22:27 < linkhyrule5> though I am mildly inclined to not spoil his good name too mucuh :p
22:28 < Kel> kappabeta, if you want, Aspen could respond to Home on the forum since they are not at the party?
22:28 < kappabeta> hee
22:28 < Endovior> Appropriate theme music for the explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDrBgqryt9s
22:28 < Thatwasademo> how much detail on the spellbook should I list immediately
22:28 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: I mean, will he be suitably freaked out on the forums after?
22:29 < kappabeta> I am pretty enthusiastic about the thing happening, and I feel like "person makes cryptically clumsy introductory post; scrying their universe returns informational white noise" is a pretty good way to get the thing to happen
22:29 < Eva> Not a lot? Lioncourt's going to need to Gate to Zot in order to read it properly, after all
22:29 < kappabeta> I might wait until after the party to intro Home, though, which will handily give me time to give her an avatar and make a forum theme for her
22:30 < Kel> (thank you)
22:30 < Thatwasademo> well, you can read the book just fine
22:30 < Kel> (stuff is happening /fast/)
22:30 < Thatwasademo> you just can't memorize spells
22:30 < Thatwasademo> all you get is a book about the spells
22:30 < Thatwasademo> basically giving you the descriptions
22:31 < Kel> Question
22:31 < Eva> thatwasademo: makes sense
22:31 < Kel> If Botanical Engineer's name becomes more widely known like Aisilian (I think?);s name, will people actually use it
22:31 < Eva> Also, second bones level aaah
22:31 < Aestrix> :)
22:32 < Aestrix> It's just another entrance to the ride.
22:32 < Andygal> Kel: Maaaaybe?
22:32 < Eva> thatwasademo: oh god this tactical situation
22:33 < Kel> It's Kyeskei Tsi-Dyu Mekto in full
22:33 < Kel> Kyeskei is her personal name, and Skei is her nickname
22:33 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - he will be very freaked out
22:34 < linkhyrule5> he does not like hurting people
22:34 < linkhyrule5> witness the thing with "Uh, Thorn, sorry for breaking yyour beta fork, seriously I owe you one"
22:34 * Kel scoops up ME and hugs him
22:34 < Teceler> yeah. I think that will help with coming across are more 'careless' and less 'malicious'
22:34 < linkhyrule5> Tbf, it's not even "careless"
22:34 < linkhyrule5> how many vulnerable sad sapient /universes/ are there >.>
22:34 < Kel> really unfamiliar with what's going on?
22:34 < Teceler> yeah, but general pattern
22:34 < linkhyrule5> ^ that.
22:34 < linkhyrule5> I guess.
22:34 < Andygal> linkhyrule: he could *ask* before scrying on people?
22:35 < linkhyrule5> Though he's had pretty good reason each time
22:35 < Andygal> even if they aren't sapient universes.
22:35 < linkhyrule5> Andygal - And if they have something to hide? What if he asked Prism first ,and Prism said no?
22:35 < Adelene> hubristic, kinda, that he assumes scrying everybody all the time will never end up hurting anything.
22:35 < linkhyrule5> He doesn't /invade privacy/, but he also won't let people die or suffer horribly.
22:35 < Teceler> um
22:35 < Kel> He is kinda a hero at home, though?
22:35 < linkhyrule5> Most of the time, just watching doesn't hurt people. I think this is about the only situation where it would.
22:36 < sonatagreen> He really believes that there's such a thing as 'reliably read-only', where his scrying is always undetectable
22:36 < Teceler> it's less hubristic and more 'I know what is best for everyone'
22:36 < Andygal> Teceler: I think that qualifies as hubristic.
22:36 < linkhyrule5> ^ That thing, kind of. Or at least "I know that /this particular thing/ is good for everyone, I will make sure it is htere and hten let them determine everything else"
22:36 < Adelene> contrary!Adebrain is now inclined to set blobmonster's world up with a fragile social situation and people who can sense scrying :P
22:36 < linkhyrule5> sonatagreen - that too. Because, uh, this is about the only situation it'd show up
22:36 < sonatagreen> and most of the time that's the case, but sometimes you get stuff like Home or Keter where stuff can notice being watched
22:36 < kappabeta> I think wrt this kind of thing it's not even hubristic/careless it's just... not quite having internalized "the multiverse is a BIG PLACE"
22:36 < Teceler> I may have a weird definition of 'hubristic'
22:36 < Teceler> also that
22:37 < linkhyrule5> I mean, part of the problem is that... like
22:37 < linkhyrule5> His thing isn't even scrying
22:37 < kappabeta> The multiverse is a big place and sometimes there are weird situations you couldn't have predicted in advance
22:37 < linkhyrule5> That's what I call it because you're going to hear scrying when I say "gets information about other places", but it's not like, an eye
22:37 < Endovior> As a sidenote, the other universe idea I have floating around would be a REALLY BAD THING to scry.
22:37 < linkhyrule5> ^ Sure, but you can never tell what those things would be
22:37 < kappabeta> heeeeeeeeeeee
22:37 < linkhyrule5> and information is generally better than no information
22:37 < linkhyrule5> Like, that's basically a Pascal's Wager, type thing
22:38 < linkhyrule5> Doing anything could go horribly wrong, but you have to do /something/ or you let more people /on average/ get hurt
22:38 < Endovior> There's a magical girl type thing I did once upon a time, with the villains being Nightmare Demons.
22:38 < kappabeta> hehehehehehehehehe
22:38 < kappabeta> ooh, nightmare demons
22:38 < Endovior> Nightmare Demons are sort of reflexively formed as the negative aspects of people that interact with the universe in question.
22:38 < Teceler> ...oh dear
22:38 < Endovior> They have all the power and knowledge of those people
22:38 < Kel> (too much fire! :D)
22:39 < Adelene> SO much fire.
22:39 < linkhyrule5> See, there. That thing. That thing would not actually get ME's knowledge, because it's not an interaction.
22:39 < kappabeta> it's not?
22:39 < linkhyrule5> Subjective is a special case because of its interaction with aletics
22:39 < Teceler> what kappa said
22:39 < linkhyrule5> in general it's not like... looking at the thing.
22:39 < linkhyrule5> It's like... looking at /the concept of the thing/
22:39 < Andygal> Endovior: waaaaaaaay too much fire.
22:39 < linkhyrule5> Basically everything he does is "if there was a hypothetical world where this thing was in front of me, what would it look like"
22:40 < Aestrix> Oh my god Endovior that is SO MUCH FIRE
22:40 < kappabeta> pffff
22:40 < linkhyrule5> In the case of Subjective it doesn't matter
22:40 < linkhyrule5> in the case of things like Nightmare Demons and even sort of the Gauntlet it really does.
22:40 < linkhyrule5> Or like, hypothetical scrying-detection people
22:40 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: I feel like by everyone else's rules that does count as just looking at, that's just the abstraction to deal with cross-Truth stuff on ME's end
22:40 < Endovior> Generally speaking, it would look like you.
22:40 < Teceler> but I might be wrong
22:40 < linkhyrule5> Ennnhhh... It /really isn't/ looking at that person, though, that's the thing
22:40 < Endovior> And then it would start acting against you, probably by turning off your defences.
22:41 < Andygal> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.
22:41 < kappabeta> endovior: how does this world manage to not have ended already
22:41 < linkhyrule5> it's... kind of hard to tell the difference from within the universe, but certain things would notice
22:41 < Teceler> too much fire
22:41 < linkhyrule5> Presumably, hope, love, and magical girls :p
22:41 < Andygal> I do not have enough eep to discribe that.
22:41 < linkhyrule5> Also trauma.
22:41 < linkhyrule5> Lots of trauma.
22:41 < Adelene> "if there was a hypothetical world where this thing was in front of me, what would it look like" <- you have to get that info from someplace and the info-getting process is the scry, is my intuition.
22:41 < Teceler> yes
22:41 < linkhyrule5> Adelene - nope! That's the magic, that's the alethics, that's the study-of-truth.
22:41 < linkhyrule5> It's the bit where you go to the platonic world
22:41 < Endovior> Mostly for two reasons. First, because it already IS the way that the Lord of Nightmares wants it.
22:41 < linkhyrule5> and go to the place where the othoer thing would be
22:42 < Teceler> link, um, you are doing the thing again
22:42 < linkhyrule5> and look at what that world has in that place
22:42 < kappabeta> link: ...I feel like that's sort of...
22:42 < Thatwasademo> eva: tag
22:42 < Endovior> And secondly, because magical girl powers (which themselves came from an ambitious demon-lucifer who wants to overthrow the big bad)
22:42 < linkhyrule5> ... this isn't even stepping on other people's worlds this time
22:42 * linkhyrule5 is grumpy
22:42 < Teceler> (The 'Entelechy being Rude' thing)
22:42 < linkhyrule5> THis is jsut how Entelechy magic /works/
22:42 < Teceler> I might be wrong
22:42 < Adelene> *constructs a large statue that says 'Rude' for people to point to*
22:42 < Teceler> yes, for Entelechy
22:42 < Teceler> but, um
22:42 < Andygal> RUDE!
22:42 * Teceler tries to words
22:42 < linkhyrule5> It is designed in a way to bypass large amounts of traditional magic concerns
22:43 < Andygal> RUDE!
22:43 < linkhyrule5> that's what it does, it is a nonstandarad conceptual magic system
22:43 < Kel> (Are people going to thing again?)
22:43 < Teceler> By saying that you are again says that those universes follow those rules
22:43 < linkhyrule5> This isn't like "wishcoins work in all universes," this is "wishcoins vanish after used"
22:43 < Teceler> or else I am confused
22:43 < linkhyrule5> What rules? The rules that logic works?
22:43 < linkhyrule5> Because if that's the case, alethics doesn't work
22:43 < linkhyrule5> See: Esthfora, Subjective
22:43 * Kel is going off for now
22:43 < Teceler> the rules that they conform to whatever platonic ideal of world
22:43 < Teceler> sorry Kel
22:43 -!- Kel is now known as Kel|HopefullyTemporarilyAway
22:43 < linkhyrule5> Other way around
22:43 < Adelene> The *effect* is 'wishcoins work in all universes'. That matters for interaction with your fellow authors.
22:44 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: ???
22:44 < linkhyrule5> platonic ideal world conforms to real world
22:44 < linkhyrule5> Look, metaphysical philosophy aside:
22:44 < Teceler> and that matters relative to these worlds how?
22:45 < linkhyrule5> Alethics is blocked by alogic things and by things that block information entirely.
22:45 < Aestrix> link! TAG! :D
22:45 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix: Yay!
22:45 < kappabeta> aestrix <3
22:45 < Aestrix> <3
22:45 < Endovior> But yeah, mostly Nightmare Demons are 'too much on fire' and 'best not mixed with any other magics, since they are on fire and should not be mixed with otherwordly gasoline'
22:45 < kappabeta> pffhehehe
22:45 < Teceler> ahahaha
22:45 < Endovior> Their native universe fortunately doesn't have all that much other magic to leech off of
22:46 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: It's the 'people can't detect me scrying because I'm not actually doing that' and then the logic behind that is ???
22:46 < linkhyrule5> Philosphy.
22:46 < linkhyrule5> Weird Nasu logic.
22:46 < Teceler> Philosophy that may not be valid for other universes.
22:46 * linkhyrule5 is kind of braindead
22:46 < linkhyrule5> No, it's not... erph. It's a local thing.
22:46 < Endovior> Also, Nightmare Demons don't necessarily get into immediate fights, since they want what evil!You wants, which might not involve a confrontation at all.
22:47 < linkhyrule5> There's... Someone in Entelechy could write the MWF as fiction
22:47 < Endovior> Depending on your internal mental state.
22:47 < Teceler> Endovior: how do these things determine Evil!You?
22:47 < Endovior> They're, like... Youma?
22:47 < Teceler> that is not an example with which I am familiar
22:47 < Endovior> Like, standard Sailor Moon-style demons made from people's dark sides.
22:47 < linkhyrule5> Which means that everything in the MWF exists in Entelechy Platonic space, as long as it is conceivable.
22:47 < Andygal> Endovior: I supect that Evil!Me would want to spend forever in bed and slaughter anyone who tried to make them get out of bed.
22:48 < linkhyrule5> They are not, liike, real. They are just... the world beyond the reach ofgod, the simulation that people /could/ get if they were reading the fiction
22:48 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: um. I do not feel like you can say that
22:48 < linkhyrule5> Alethics is about identifying the right world and reading it.
22:48 < Endovior> Whatever dark desires YOU actually have and/or repress, those are the things they want.
22:48 < Aestrix> Evil me would either not be a threat to anyone at all, or be really terrifying.
22:48 < linkhyrule5> What, that people can't imagine things?
22:48 < linkhyrule5> They clearly can.
22:48 < linkhyrule5> We're writiing it.
22:48 < Teceler> no, that [words]
22:48 < Endovior> All the stuff that you would do, if you could, and didn't care about the consequences that normally inhibit you; that's what they do.
22:48 < Teceler> that the fact that people can imagine it means it is scryable
22:48 < Adelene> 'That's *my* world, you dont get a copy of it.'
22:48 < Andygal> arrrrgh.
22:48 < Teceler> yes
22:48 < Endovior> Have you read Sailor Nothing? Those demons.
22:48 < Teceler> what Adelene said
22:49 < Aestrix> I haven't, no
22:49 < linkhyrule5> Adelene - ... that... what?
22:49 < linkhyrule5> It's not a copy, it's...
22:49 < Aestrix> But yeah, mine would likely be a bitch that says awful horrible things and serially hurts people, but I doubt she would be large scale.
22:49 < Teceler> you are making copies of worlds in Entelechy's conceptual space that does not seem like a thing that is okay
22:49 < Andygal> what's so hard about you don't get to scry on universes without the writer's permission?
22:49 < Adelene> You don't get simulation, either. Mine. (hypothetically. I don't strictly mind this working with Carp.)
22:50 < Teceler> the problem is that he is established as scrying on things and this was not elaborated at the time?
22:50 < Teceler> because it did not occur to link that these would be problems
22:50 < Endovior> The main limiting factor for Nightmare Demons is that most of them are basically just evil!Humans with conventional human-level malice, and basically no opportunity to gain power
22:50 < linkhyrule5> Okay, but ... like, now you're stepping on /my/ toes, because somehow I have to explain how your universe is completely impossible to imagine byb anyone within the universe
22:50 < Teceler> no
22:50 < linkhyrule5> because that's what it means, not be simulatable
22:50 < Teceler> it is impossible to completely simulate
22:50 < Teceler> they are different things
22:51 < linkhyrule5> ... okay, so I establish time horizons and inaccuracies
22:51 < linkhyrule5> but, like.
22:51 < Teceler> like, to simulate things, to do that thing, you need data to work off of
22:51 < Andygal> and also the gauntlet blew up ME's eyes, so clearly ME's scrying is detectable.
22:51 < linkhyrule5> Because it's not
22:51 < linkhyrule5> ugh
22:51 < linkhyrule5> Okay, look.
22:51 < linkhyrule5> Forget it. I will explain Entelechy when it's fun.
22:51 < Teceler> I'm really sorry link but I can't make sense of this
22:51 < linkhyrule5> For the rest of the time: Things that alogic can block alethics.
22:51 < Endovior> This is reasonable.
22:51 < Andygal> :(
22:52 * Aestrix distributes hugs
22:52 < linkhyrule5> So can thing that prevent things from /being known/.
22:52 < linkhyrule5> The Gauntlet can do that bit. It can make thinigs /impossible to be known/, or make it /impossible for information to spread/
22:52 < linkhyrule5> Fidelius effects.
22:53 < linkhyrule5> Things that /detect/ alethics: Really really hard, because it's completely orthogonal to basically anything you can think of. Things that /know when they are known/, even without a causal mechanism.
22:53 < Teceler> okay, link, what I am confused about is under this interpretation how the Gauntlet can react to ME
22:53 * kappabeta distributes hugs also
22:53 < linkhyrule5> Sapient memes with a hivemind.
22:53 * linkhyrule5 accepts hugs. sags.
22:53 < Aestrix> *pat* *pat*
22:53 * Andygal thanks aestrix and kappabeta for hugs.
22:53 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - The Gauntlet knows when things are known and can make it impossible to know something even if it's in front of your face.
22:53 < Aestrix> <3
22:53 < linkhyrule5> It qualifies as "a thing that can block alethics"
22:54 < linkhyrule5> Hypothetically, if you had a "keeper for ideas" that knew whenever an idea appeared in another world, in the same way that the keeper knows whenever something is incarnated
22:54 < linkhyrule5> (if only in theory, because it's in her giant stream of inforamtion)
22:54 < Adelene> Link, this really isn't about what your world *logically* should or shouldn't be able to do. It's about being polite to your fellow authors. The problem here isn't really Entilechy, it's that you've chosen to bring Entilechy into a multiplayer setting without warning people or getting permission for it to have these unexpected powers.
22:54 < linkhyrule5> she could detect alethics.
22:54 < Teceler> okay. I feel like most well-made scry-detection things unless that is competely sideway to local concepts would have 'someone knows about this and who shouldn't' parameter
22:54 < linkhyrule5> Adelene - Which is why there is the great big gaping loophole of
22:55 < linkhyrule5> "your world can just arbitrarily block alethics for no reason whatsoever"
22:55 < Endovior> The dangerous thing about poking Nightmares with a stick is that it is on fire, and both the stick and you are made of gasoline.
22:55 < linkhyrule5> the universe can do that, universees can do that, have fun
22:55 < linkhyrule5> Or can partially block bits of it from sight
22:55 < kappabeta> (<3 endovior <3)
22:55 < Teceler> /yes/ but you did not explain all this stuff so universes are established as not doing that when maybe the authors would now prefer that they are not
22:55 < Teceler> that is the problem here
22:55 < Adelene> Ok, the other problem is that you're treating that as a loophole when you should be treating it as default.
22:55 < Andygal> Endovior: Yes that is ridiculous amounts of fire.
22:56 < linkhyrule5> but... logic.
22:56 < Andygal> Please do not bring in that much fire.
22:56 < Teceler> Endovior: so much fire
22:56 < Endovior> I figured it was probably too much, yeah
22:56 < linkhyrule5> It's a thing that... yes, it's a default, taht's why I put the loophole in the rules.
22:56 < Adelene> The *logic* here is 'do not play worlds that are rude to your fellow authors'. Everything else comes second to that.
22:56 < Endovior> I'm mostly just musing on various ideas in the discard pile while I'm sitting here sick :(
22:56 < Aestrix> Adelene I think link gets that
22:57 < Aestrix> But like... I know what it's like to have trouble explaining everything?
22:57 < linkhyrule5> ^ Right. But there's also the rule "Don't play worlds that aren't fun to play." And in order for there to be an /intersection/, I have to /change the rules/
22:57 * sonatagreen reads scrollback
22:57 < linkhyrule5> in order for the OOC politeness considerations
22:57 < linkhyrule5> Hence, loopholes.
22:57 < linkhyrule5> The loopholes exist so that Entelechy can be both logical and not rude
22:58 < Teceler> except that we are past those loopholes because people were not sufficently informed in advance about things (on both ends)
22:58 < Adelene> Uh. If the only worlds that are fun to you to play are worlds that are rude to your fellow authors then you shouldn't be roleplaying with people.
22:58 < Teceler> so we need a way to fix this problem
22:58 < kappabeta> I feel like this is the sort of situation that things like my "worlds the keeper can access" thread were made for
22:58 < Endovior> ^^
22:58 < Andygal> ^^
22:58 < Teceler> Adelene: I don't think that is the problem here. I think the problem here is that changing the way the world works is not fun.
22:59 < Endovior> Third idea, which is probably significantly less bad.
22:59 < sonatagreen> it seems like, if ME was coming up with hypothetical universes for fun, and by coincidence one of the things he made up just happened to be identical to Nightmareverse, then this would not trigger anything. But if he points at the actual existing Nightmareverse and says "*that thing right there* is what I want to simulate", then the Nightmareverse can notice *being pointed at*, purely independent of the act of simulating it.
23:00 < Teceler> link was asking people before scrying, generally, but, like, it did not occur that consequences of that being possible were bad
23:00 < linkhyrule5> ^ That. I was totally going to people and asking
23:00 < sonatagreen> true
23:00 < linkhyrule5> "Hey, can I scry on your world?"
23:00 < sonatagreen> that is a good thing
23:00 < linkhyrule5> it was not like I was just going "ME knows EEEEVVEERRYTHING, muahaha!"
23:00 < linkhyrule5> unilaterally
23:00 < Teceler> except that you did not list out all of that stuff because you did not expect it to be a problem
23:00 < linkhyrule5> pretty much?
23:00 < Teceler> and it is so now we have problems
23:01 < Teceler> and we need to find a way to fix them
23:01 < linkhyrule5> Like, "undetectable scrying method" just seems to me like "okay, it's a wonky magic system, add it to the list"
23:01 < Endovior> A character from a universe which immediately identifies the MWF as a roleplaying thing, and plays along, because that's the kind of thing he does in *his* universe. He pretends to be a local god-type thing, and will eventually be fairly suprised that there are actual other universes out there, instead of what his actual universe has.
23:01 < Teceler> it does not help that we are confused by what is going on in the first place
23:01 < Adelene> "hey can I scry on your world" is a different thing than "hey can I know absolutely everything about your world without the world or its inhabitants being able to react to that in any way", you need separate permission for the second thing.
23:02 < linkhyrule5> I mean. I called it a "world scry," and when I knew relevant important details I asked about them explciitly?
23:02 < linkhyrule5> I did like "So, are there any important secrets that ME needs to not know about, how can we justify him not knowing"
23:02 < linkhyrule5> that was a thing I predicted and asked about
23:02 < kappabeta> yes, and that is good, link
23:02 < kappabeta> those are definitely good things that you did
23:02 < Teceler> yes
23:02 < Adelene> 'world scry' implies that standard antiscrying stuff can be expected to work though.
23:02 < Andygal> You don't get to turn around as soon as somebody says that this world can't be scried and say that it's not actually scrying and therefore you can totally scry anything you want.
23:02 < Teceler> and scry detection stuff
23:03 < Endovior> (the universe is 'The Golden Age', and he's expecting computationally-intensive simulations of hypothetical universes, not actual other universes)
23:03 < linkhyrule5> Andygal - ... buuuut I'm not?
23:03 < Teceler> even if you were conceptualizing it that way in the first place it is problematic for people who were not informed of that thing
23:03 < Adelene> yes.
23:03 < kappabeta> but now we have discovered unexpectedly that the way the scrying works is this particular thing that seems kind of - I never finished finding words for the way that it seems, but it seems a way
23:03 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, I'm seeing that, but...
23:03 < linkhyrule5> Maybe I should just not call it scrying
23:04 < linkhyrule5> except that that's totally what everyone will think when they see it
23:04 < Endovior> *shrugs*
23:04 < Andygal> linkhyrule: It seems like that what you were doing.
23:04 < linkhyrule5> "Oh hey it's a clairvoyance-clairaudience divination thingy"
23:04 < Teceler> yes but that does not help with the existing problem!
23:04 < Adelene> And there's kind of a separate thing here where this *type* of problem keeps coming up and that makes people not want to be so lenient with you about it.
23:04 < Teceler> divination might work better, link
23:04 < linkhyrule5> Divinattion
23:04 < linkhyrule5> Let's just use divination.
23:04 < kappabeta> divination seems like a more accurate word to the concept, from what i can tell
23:05 < linkhyrule5> Adelene - I mean. It's one world.
23:05 < Andygal> Yeah.
23:05 < linkhyrule5> One apparently rude world, despite the fact that it's starting to be faiirly lousy with nerfs
23:05 < Teceler> with lots of unexpected tripholes that are unexpected because you didn't talk about them upfrount because you didn't expect them to be problems
23:06 * Kel|HopefullyTemporarilyAway checks back in
23:06 < Teceler> and I am not sure precisely why that is but
23:06 < Endovior> o/
23:06 < Adelene> nope, Kel, sorry
23:06 < Teceler> hey Kel
23:06 < Kel|HopefullyTemporarilyAway> I am going to bed soon
23:06 < Kel|HopefullyTemporarilyAway> yeah?
23:06 < Teceler> that was a greeting
23:06 < Kel|HopefullyTemporarilyAway> Oh okay sorry
23:06 < Andygal> :(
23:06 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - I mean. This is literally the first time this world has ever seen the light of day
23:06 < Teceler> but we should talk about the fire thing at some point
23:06 < kappabeta> hello again kel, allow me to point you at the pile of hugs --> *hug* *hug* *hug*
23:06 < Teceler> and I did say that I'd tagged you, right?
23:07 * Andygal hugs Kel.
23:07 < kappabeta> the pile of hugs is available to everyone
23:07 < Teceler> (also, hugs, yes, that is a thing, hugs)
23:07 < kappabeta> the pile of hugs is infinite
23:07 < Adelene> and polite ^^
23:07 < Andygal> infinite hug pile!
23:07 < kappabeta> Infinite hug pile. Hugs for all who wish to partake.
23:07 < Teceler> guys let's take this to #Entelechy so people who are stressed out by and and don't want to be don't have to deal with it?
23:08 < Teceler> *and don't want to deal with it don't have to
23:08 < Andygal> that's a good idea.
23:08 < Adelene> Sure.
23:08 < kappabeta> does anyone keep logs of #entelechy?
23:08 * Teceler apologizes for not thinking of that earlier
23:08 * Andygal is so glad that channel exists.
23:08 < Kel|HopefullyTemporarilyAway> (thank you)
23:08 -!- Kel|HopefullyTemporarilyAway is now known as Kel
23:08 < Aestrix> <3
23:09 < Endovior> I'm not feeling up to an in-depth discussion at the moment, but I'd be interested in seeing logs later, if a more-coherent description of Entelechy interactions arises.
23:09 < Andygal> now I can stop giving myself a headache.
23:09 < Andygal> just not in the mood for that stuff tonight.
23:09 < linkhyrule5> yeah, okay
23:09 < Kel> Okay, and I will not look in that tag unless I am pointed to a specific thing to search for
23:10 < Kel> And my brain will stop doing the thing
23:10 < Teceler> sorry Kel
23:11 < Kel> It's not a problem, I left when it was, so pretty much no sads resulted on my part!
23:11 < Teceler> so how can we nerf Spirit!Exsurgent virus to be less on fire? Is is plausible for it to not actually be able to break wards?
23:12 < Andygal> I think not breaking wards would be a good idea to avoid fire.
23:13 -!- Kel has quit
23:13 < Teceler> or it takes sufficent power to break in-universe wards that it takes a while
23:13 < Teceler> er
23:13 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
23:13 < Kel> Firefox crashed, what were the last few things said?
23:13 < Andygal> 21:13] <Teceler> or it takes sufficent power to break in-universe wards that it takes a while
23:13 < Andygal> [21:13] <Teceler> er
23:13 < Teceler> <Teceler> so how can we nerf Spirit!Exsurgent virus to be less on fire? Is is plausible for it to not actually be able to break wards?
23:13 < Teceler> <Andygal> I think not breaking wards would be a good idea to avoid fire.
23:13 < Teceler> * has quit
23:13 < Teceler> <Teceler> or it takes sufficent power to break in-universe wards that it takes a while
23:13 < Teceler> <Teceler> er
23:13 < Teceler> * Kel has joined #backstage
23:14 < Kel> Okay
23:14 < Kel> Let's see...
23:15 < Kel> If a ghost is attached to something, generally that something gets /much/ better at doing whatever its thing was, or can do its thing at a bit of range with assistance from a mage
23:15 < Kel> If it's not being ridiculously good at getting through barriers, it's... what was the other thing again?
23:16 < Andygal> infecting stuff.
23:16 < Kel> I thought there was another thing it did though
23:16 < Kel> like, besides that one?
23:16 < Teceler> transforming stuff?
23:16 < Teceler> um
23:16 * Teceler thinks
23:17 < Teceler> mind-control? various psi stuff?
23:18 < Kel> When were we talking about this last?
23:18 < Kel> Do you remember?
23:18 < Andygal> yesterday?
23:19 < Kel> I'll go check yesterday logs then
23:20 -!- Sky has quit
23:20 < Kel> 21:25 < Teceler> doing horrific things and/or murdering + infecting, yes, everyone in the vicinity
23:20 < Kel> 21:25 < Andygal> and fucking up their minds. 21:25 < Teceler> and then spreading farther
23:21 < Kel> So less emphasis on the "spreading further"
23:21 < Kel> and more on the horrific things and super infectious?
23:21 < Teceler> do you think that would make it less on fire?
23:21 < Kel> I think?
23:21 * Kel thinks
23:22 < sonatagreen> it occurs to me
23:22 < Andygal> if it could be hedged out by wards that would make it less on fire then otherwise.
23:22 * Andygal is not sure we want to turn this into a forumwide panic attack.
23:22 < Kel> which is why we are trying to make it less on fire /before/ we do the thin
23:22 < Kel> yes?
23:23 < Kel> *thing
23:23 < Teceler> yeah, what Kel said
23:23 < Teceler> we are trying to make just enough on fire to be interesting
23:23 < Teceler> and not to cause forumwide panic attacks
23:23 < Andygal> Yeah.
23:23 < Teceler> unless people thing those would be fun, which I generally do not think is the case
23:23 < sonatagreen> link, it might help if, when someone says "if entelechy tries do scry me, X weird thing would happen", instead of you saying "no, entelechy is immune to that kind of thing", instead you say "I'd rather entelechy just not be able to scry them in that case". it basically amounts to the same thing, but feels less pushy.
23:24 < Kel> (that reminds me, I got /really/ lost trying to find parking on the way to the ACT today)
23:24 < Teceler> sonatagreen: we're talking in #Entelechy now
23:24 < Kel> What if the virus ghosts were really good at doing horrific things to their hosts
23:24 < Teceler> (that sounds unpleasant)
23:25 < Kel> or would that not work as well? I'm not very familiar with source
23:25 < Teceler> that sounds.. horrific
23:25 < Teceler> but less on fire?
23:25 < sonatagreen> what exactly was the original design purpose of the virus again? a weapon?
23:25 < Kel> I think?
23:25 < Kel> A pre-emptive weapon?
23:25 < Andygal> I think so.
23:25 < sonatagreen> like, what were the designers envisioning would happen
23:26 < Andygal> persumably, deth.
23:26 < Andygal> misspelling totally intended.
23:26 < sonatagreen> more specifically though, what scope
23:26 < Teceler> everyone else on the contient dies, iirc
23:27 < Teceler> they forgot to sufficently specific the 'else' part
23:27 < Teceler> *specify
23:27 < sonatagreen> ha
23:27 < sonatagreen> so it seems like, they were trying to aim it at a particular group/area
23:27 < sonatagreen> the ghosts might improve the aim?
23:28 < Andygal> but persumably the people it was aimed at in the first place are not availible.
23:28 < Teceler> I don't know what that would mean, effectively
23:28 < Kel> "else" is now everybody, I think?
23:28 < Teceler> and, also, I had a thought re: the exsurgent virus and things blocking it
23:28 < Teceler> it doesn't tend to just go through things. It tends to go /around/ them or build things that can break them
23:29 < Kel> Okay
23:29 < Kel> That could be a /lot/ less on fire potentially!
23:29 < Kel> How does it go around?
23:31 < Kel> (I am building up a magic system from vague ideas on the fly, and there is flexibility)
23:31 < Teceler> like, the medium of the virus
23:31 < Andygal> it gets around in a bunch of different ways.
23:31 < Teceler> the biological version couldn't get through a sufficently strong sanitizer, maybe
23:31 < Andygal> I believe?
23:32 < Kel> and what would it do instead?
23:32 < Teceler> but then if the controls on that were connected to something the digital version could take them over
23:32 < Kel> ah!
23:32 < Kel> teamwork!
23:32 < Teceler> or someone could get infected with the memetic version
23:32 < Kel> And let it through?
23:33 < Kel> So like, mages who already lived in an area that dealt with mundane diseases might have enough of a chance that if it ran up against them it could be contained in a smallish area?
23:33 < Teceler> or go get at a nanoreplicator inside and build it there, or...
23:33 < Kel> (this is a horrifying virus!)
23:33 < Teceler> I mean, I'm looking at Earth as the example here
23:33 < Teceler> they can probably block it at some point, yes
23:33 < Teceler> (yes it is!)
23:34 < Kel> What did it do there? This is another Earth, just with weird spirit magic
23:34 < Andygal> (It is really horrifying!)
23:34 < Teceler> but it is going to keep sneaking past and having to be cleared out
23:34 < Teceler> Eclipse!Earth, I mean
23:34 < Kel> yeah
23:34 < Teceler> if there is any plausible way it can do so
23:34 < Teceler> and once it gets in an area it is /very very hard/ to get out
23:35 < Andygal> so how do we make sure this thing does not become horribly on fire on the levels of "oh shit we have to evacuate the entire universe!"?
23:35 < Kel> we're figuring that out still!
23:35 * Eva is always relevant.
23:35 < Kel> ?
23:35 < Kel> Oh!
23:35 < Kel> Astra!
23:35 < Kel> Right?
23:35 * Eva also occasionally has to be Evacuated.
23:36 < Eva> > /eva/cuated.
23:36 < Kel> Oh!
23:36 < Kel> right okay
23:36 < Kel> sorry
23:36 * Andygal groans.
23:36 < Eva> np lol
23:36 * Andygal thinks "have Astra eat it" is a last resort.
23:37 < Teceler> I mean, MWF is /very magic/
23:37 < Kel> It'd be nice if it could at least get to a temporary containment in Spirit?
23:37 < Teceler> I feel like they probably could, because they have the same kind of magic?
23:37 < Kel> So that when the MWF looks for it, it can be dealt with as a campfire rather than a forest fire?
23:38 < Teceler> but it would be a bit of an unstable equilibrum, and they would take a lot of losses first
23:38 < Kel> Is the name "ghost" already taken as a strain name?
23:38 < Teceler> not that I recall
23:38 < Kel> They'd probably also be taking heavy losses from their own side
23:38 < Kel> Is it a plausible name for a strain?
23:38 < Teceler> yeah
23:38 < Kel> yay! We have invented another horrifying new virus strain!
23:38 < Andygal> There's a strain called Haunting isn't there?
23:39 < Teceler> Andygal: yes
23:40 < Kel> Want to sketch out what happens if the ghost virus encounters a group of mages prepared for a different disease?
23:41 < Teceler> sure
23:41 < Teceler> I have no idea what this looks like, though
23:41 < Kel> Me either!
23:41 < Kel> It'll be an ~adventure~
23:41 < Teceler> okay, so virus appears in the world
23:42 < Teceler> probably direct from Entelechy at some point before Aspen makes contact with the forum
23:42 < Kel> First person it infects is a mage who knows how to create ghosts?
23:42 < Kel> (I am kinda iffy on timeline)
23:42 < Teceler> or one of the first few, yes
23:42 < Teceler> I feel like getting it from Entelechy is the most reasonable way to get it
23:42 < Teceler> and if it happens before the forum less panic because everyone is after forum?
23:42 < Kel> This world does not have nanotechnology at this point
23:42 < Teceler> hm
23:43 < Teceler> point
23:43 < Kel> (imagines really big petri dish)
23:43 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: (sorry for pinging you over here) do you think the Entelechy!Exsurgent-virus used nanotech?
23:43 < Kel> (full of /evil/)
23:44 < Andygal> Meta!Anda side-eyes genengineering.
23:44 < Kel> there is also no genetic engineer
23:44 < Kel> *engineering
23:45 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - I mean, the Entelechy version probabl ydidn't /need/ to
23:45 < linkhyrule5> but
23:45 < linkhyrule5> uh
23:45 < linkhyrule5> the word I usually end up throwing around is "bioarcanonanotech"
23:46 < Andygal> ahahaha.
23:46 < Teceler> okay, what forms do you feel like a Spirit version would take, pre-ghosting?
23:46 < Teceler> this is a much more cheerful discussion :P
23:46 < Kel> than what?
23:46 < Kel> Oh nvm
23:46 < Andygal> probably memetic?
23:47 < Teceler> yeah, definitely memetic would be one
23:47 < Teceler> probably the biovirus
23:47 < Kel> How does it get from one to the other?
23:47 * Andygal goes to wash dishes, brb.
23:47 < Kel> bye!
23:48 < Kel> The timeline does not match ours very closely (because I want to handwavey history, which has never been my strong suit) but I think it's currently 1600s
23:48 < Kel> or some time 17th century
23:49 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - memetic, then spreads to bio/nano through brains and cells... however it does it in Eclipse
23:49 < linkhyrule5> which is kind of weird
23:49 < linkhyrule5> but is allegedly physical, so.
23:49 < linkhyrule5> And then it just does whatever.
23:50 < Kel> I thought it was like
23:50 < Teceler> yeah, but would it come up with nano on it's own in a universe where that might be theoretically possible but hasn't happened yet?
23:50 < Kel> is not even close to nano
23:50 < Kel> there are not computers
23:50 < Teceler> does nano theoretically work under Spirit's rules?
23:51 < Teceler> I feel like this might be important
23:51 < Kel> also holy crap it's 10:50 I am sleep in 10 minutes
23:51 < Teceler> ...yes, you should sleep when you need to
23:51 < Kel> It /theoretically/ could, but it's not at all likely to happen any time within the next 4.5 centuries
23:52 < Kel> Like, nuclear weapons could theoretically exist in Spirit and might if it continues uninterrupted,
23:52 < Kel> but they will not for quite a while
23:53 < Kel> Basically anything possible under usual physics is possible in Spirit
23:53 < Kel> Spirit has physics-with-bonuses
23:53 < Kel> From spirits that are /in/ /addition/ to the physics
23:53 < Kel> if that makes sense?
23:55 < Kel> (I can't tell if you're in the other thread. Interrupt me if I should not summon you?)
23:55 < Kel> Teceler?
23:55 < Thatwasademo> khehehehehehe
23:55 < Kel> ?
23:55 < Teceler> sorry, distracted :(
23:55 < Thatwasademo> gift thread
23:55 < Kel> not a problem!
23:55 < Kel> Oh I will check the thing in a bit!
23:55 < Teceler> um, yes, but if it was theoretically impossible then /obviously/ the virus couldn't do the thing
23:56 < Kel> (hugs?)
23:56 < Kel> So it's theoretically possible,
23:56 < Teceler> (it's okay, I think we're doing a bit better now, it's just attention-consuming)
23:56 < Kel> (okay, glad things are going better)
23:57 < Kel> but if it's a blank slate kinda virus that just teleported in
23:57 < Kel> it isn't going to get anything like nanotech from the surrounding environment
23:58 < Teceler> yes
23:58 < Kel> But if it presents as first a biological and/or memetic (how does memetic and can it memetic just from bio?)
23:58 < Teceler> that is also a significant thing
23:59 < Teceler> I think it starts with memetic when importing
23:59 < Kel> Okay
23:59 < Kel> Ooh! awful thought! :D
23:59 < Teceler> and like, bio -> memetic involves the bio making the patterns that cause the memetic attack
23:59 < Teceler> let's hear it!
23:59 < Kel> So someone gets infected, killed, and ghost-attached to something /other/ than the pure virus!
--- Day changed Sun Jun 14 2015
00:00 < Kel> Like, a printing press!
00:00 < Kel> Could the memetic virus be spread through newspaper?
00:01 -!- MTC has joined #backstage
00:01 < Kel> Hi!
00:01 < Kel> We're making a potential new strain of the exsurgent virus!
00:01 < Kel> How're you?
00:02 < Teceler> ...yes, that is a thing that could happen, eep
00:02 < Teceler> hello
00:02 < Kel> Ooh!
00:02 < Kel> Oh wait nope
00:03 < Kel> Thought it could be attached to a bio virus, but those weren't engineered at the time
00:03 < Kel> How does it go to bio from memetic without biotech?
00:03 < Teceler> like, for example
00:03 < Teceler> it infects a person
00:03 < Teceler> and has them print the memetic version in the newspaper
00:04 < Teceler> or it infects a critter and makes it make that noise
00:04 < Kel> (?)
00:04 < Teceler> oh
00:04 < Teceler> wrong direction, sorry
00:04 * Andygal returns.
00:04 < Kel> hi!
00:05 < Teceler> probably it infects something and turns them into the bio equivalent of a nanofactory
00:05 < Kel> How does it do that without biotechnology, though?
00:05 * Andygal is pretty sure that's what regular viruses do to cells.
00:05 < Kel> (yeah)
00:07 < Teceler> what Andygal said
00:07 < Teceler> it repurposes cells and stuff
00:07 < Teceler> I don't feel like that's really so much a biotech thing as a biology thing
00:08 -!- Keltablet has joined #backstage
00:08 < Teceler> Kel which of you is Kel?
00:08 < Keltablet> Sorry someone wanted to know why i was up
00:08 < Teceler> possibly you should go sleep
00:09 < Teceler> (possibly /I/ should go sleep too)
00:09 < Eva> night all
00:09 * Eva is going to sleep
00:09 < Teceler> sleep well Eva
00:09 < Keltablet> Night!
00:09 < Keltablet> But what did you say?
00:09 < Aestrix> Good night
00:09 < Andygal> night Eva.
00:09 * Andygal should also sleep, soon.
00:09 < Teceler> Kel: where did you cut out?
00:09 < Teceler> <Kel> (yeah)
00:09 < Teceler> <Teceler> what Andygal said
00:09 < Teceler> <Teceler> it repurposes cells and stuff
00:09 < Teceler> <Teceler> I don't feel like that's really so much a biotech thing as a biology thing
00:10 < Keltablet> Maybe 3 min ago?
00:10 < Keltablet> Okay
00:10 < Teceler> I think that should cover it
00:10 -!- Kel has quit
00:10 < Keltablet> So when it's in someone's brain
00:11 < Teceler> unless you don't have what Andygal said despite it looking like you'd replied to it
00:11 < Keltablet> It can tinker with their bio
00:11 < Teceler> gradually, yes
00:11 < Teceler> or more rapidly if it's willing to bruteforce the matter
00:11 < Teceler> but, like, it piggy-backs on /how brains work/ to start changing things
00:12 < Keltablet> For the mesmeric, what information needs to be transmitted for infection?
00:12 < Teceler> depends on the strain
00:12 < Teceler> usually it's a specific image, or specific sound
00:12 < Teceler> but any sensory phenomeon would probably work
00:13 < Teceler> and sometimes they resist recording,t hat is a thing
00:13 < Keltablet> Ooh how?
00:13 < Teceler> I don't know, it is not really explained in-universe
00:13 < Teceler> but it seems to be a 'no you can't analyze this to work out how it works' thing
00:14 -!- Eva has quit
00:14 < Keltablet> Okay so like
00:14 < Keltablet> Could words in a paper work?
00:15 < Keltablet> Ooh!
00:15 < Keltablet> And then books are often /about/ transmitting ideas
00:16 < Andygal> meep.
00:16 < Keltablet> So the memetic could maybe be transferred magically at a bit of range
00:16 < Keltablet> Maybe not through barriers
00:17 < Teceler> maaybe.
00:17 < Teceler> It's like, it's less words and more a design?
00:17 < Keltablet> How long does memetic virus take to have an effect?
00:17 < Teceler> but if the words formed the design that would work
00:17 < Teceler> and it depends on the virus
00:18 < Keltablet> Okay so for this specific memetic virus that landed in spirit?
00:18 < Teceler> I feel like the faster it works the less useful the result is on some axis is a good rule to use
00:18 < Teceler> oh
00:18 < Teceler> I was assuming it was going to branch
00:18 < Keltablet> Okay
00:18 < Keltablet> One sec pjs
00:18 < Teceler> that may not actually be a thing
00:19 < Teceler> but that is an assumption I just realized
00:19 < Keltablet> Sounds like a good guideline
00:20 < Keltablet> If it's hurried there's less time for complexities?
00:20 < Teceler> yes
00:20 < Keltablet> How hive mind are they?
00:20 < Teceler> or they might brute-force it and it dies soon after because things were broken the process
00:20 < Teceler> or whatever
00:20 < Teceler> mm.
00:20 < Keltablet> Okay sounds good
00:21 < Keltablet> Could they communicate without a channel
00:21 < Keltablet> ?
00:21 < Teceler> I think what link and I decided what that it depends on the amount in the area, but the more there is the smarter it is
00:21 < Andygal> after this ME is going to want to start doing divinations on all the universes to check for exsurgent after this?
00:21 < Teceler> and being in sentient's brains lets it use some of that
00:21 < Teceler> ahahaha
00:22 < Keltablet> <3
00:22 < Keltablet> I should put laundry in drier
00:22 < Keltablet> Brb
00:23 < Teceler> you should /sleep/
00:24 < Keltablet> I am very energy right now!
00:25 < linkhyrule5> Andygal - probably
00:25 < linkhyrule5> Also, how generally amenable are you to Entelechy fiire in Sime-Gen world?
00:25 < Keltablet> Oh beams poor Thorn
00:26 < linkhyrule5> If the answer is "no" I will go invent lots of local plot to distract him or something
00:26 < Teceler> Kel: ?
00:26 < Keltablet> When she finds out!
00:26 < Teceler> oh
00:26 < Keltablet> ?
00:26 < Teceler> ...I think that is part of my motivation to not have it be from Eclipse, ha
00:26 < Teceler> because that would be worse
00:27 < Andygal> linkhyrule: depends on the amount of fire. I don't want it to turn into "ME shows up and fixes everything in one go."
00:27 < Teceler> okay, better question
00:27 < Keltablet> I send hugs to meta thorn
00:27 < Teceler> what level of fire are you amenable to
00:27 < Teceler> Kel: meta!Thorn is hugged. Thorn is getting icly hugged! So much hugs!
00:28 < Keltablet> Yay
00:28 < Keltablet> Oh i didn't respond to that I'm sorry
00:28 < Andygal> yay!
00:28 < Keltablet> I'll go see if i can guess dl password from my tablet
00:29 < Andygal> Teceler: I dunno how to answer that?
00:30 < Teceler> Andygal: like. What level of interferance is okay, what level is not? Beyond 'just steamrollering everything' being not
00:31 < Keltablet> Ha-ha yes I'm into the system!
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00:31 < Andygal> ...
00:31 < linkhyrule5> ME is likely to like. Want to save peopel from immediate death?
00:31 < linkhyrule5> But otherwise leave things to locals?
00:31 < Teceler> like, I liked the 'immediately teleport those kids to Householdings' thing
00:31 < linkhyrule5> All the cultural stuff is Anda and Linsa's and they re /welcome/ to it :p
00:32 < Andygal> that's probably OK?
00:32 < Teceler> that seemed like a good minimum interference thing
00:32 < Keltablet> What doesn't me want to fix social stuff?
00:32 < Teceler> but 'everyone gets shields' might be too much?
00:32 < linkhyrule5> I mean... I'm not sure he /can/ do the teleporatation thing
00:32 < linkhyrule5> shields is much easier, it's contagious
00:32 < linkhyrule5> teleportation is a whole lot more expensive >.>
00:32 < Andygal> ME doesn't do social.
00:32 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: I am trying to do different levels of things, shush. :P
00:32 < linkhyrule5> ... he might be able to do a teleportation contagion thing.
00:32 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
00:33 < linkhyrule5> (oh gods, can you imagine a contagiious teleportation virus)
00:33 < sonatagreen> ahaha
00:33 < Andygal> I'm not sure what "teleportion contagion" would look like haha.
00:33 < Teceler> (teleportitis?)
00:33 < Andygal> ahahahaa.
00:33 < Andygal> that would be unlikely to be helpful.
00:33 < Andygal> Unless he stole a ton of rings of teleport control from dungeon.
00:34 < Keltablet> Okay but exsurgent teleportation virus
00:34 < Teceler> link: maybe stealthing the kids unless they hurt someone and pointing them at the nearest Householding when it was near enough to be practical
00:34 < Teceler> Kel: eek
00:34 < linkhyrule5> It'd be something like "if this person is a not-safe Gen, teleport them to the nearest Householding, once"
00:34 < Keltablet> I am in a track of thought!
00:34 < linkhyrule5> and then tat effect is contagious.
00:34 < Teceler> I think the thing is more the /scope/ of the interference rather than the /power level/ on ME's end
00:34 < Andygal> but if you give the shields to all the young Gens stuck in Sime Territory they could run for a Householding, or accross the border if they wanted to.
00:34 < linkhyrule5> This is true.
00:35 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, like, ultimately, this is you deciding how much ME is allowed to interfere
00:35 < Teceler> but we need a plausible reason ME doesn't just give the shields to everyone
00:35 < Teceler> although precog could say that explodes catastrophically and this doesn't?
00:35 < Andygal> although some of them also might also decide to start stabbing Simes.
00:35 < Andygal> instead.
00:35 < Teceler> simple fix for that: make the shields keep them from hurting other people too
00:36 < linkhyrule5> The contagious shields would kind of just go for everyone
00:36 < linkhyrule5> Everyoe gets sheilds, Simes and Gens alike.
00:36 < linkhyrule5> And then he will tke them down later before people need, like
00:36 < linkhyrule5> vaccinations.
00:36 < linkhyrule5> >.>
00:36 < linkhyrule5> Or similar.
00:36 < Keltablet> Could have not heard of households?
00:36 < Teceler> yes but that is a scope problem
00:36 < linkhyrule5> yes
00:36 < linkhyrule5> this is true.
00:36 < Teceler> but if, like, precog says that explodes catastropically and half the population staves to death or something
00:37 < Teceler> and if he sets up the shields to only contagion under specific circumstances
00:37 < Keltablet> Something about sheold prevents simw eating?
00:37 < Teceler> like the young Simes and Gens in each other's territories
00:37 < Teceler> and maybe the Householdings
00:37 < linkhyrule5> Like, in practice the effect would just be contagious, but the shields themselves would only show up under specific circumstances, but yeah
00:38 < Andygal> Young Simes from Gen Territories would not have heard of Householdings. And most of them would die from lack of selyn unless they were teleported to a channel.
00:38 < linkhyrule5> end result, not everyone gets shields.
00:38 < linkhyrule5> ^ But like, is this generally a thing you are amenable to?
00:38 < linkhyrule5> Because we can totally figure out the details of something that isn't apocalyptic
00:38 < Teceler> I mean, to start with there are probably some young Simes in Gen territories who could get there before dying of lack of selyn?
00:38 < linkhyrule5> I just want to not do the thing.
00:38 < linkhyrule5> >.>
00:39 < Andygal> Teceler: if they were near the border, and there was a householding near the border on the otehr side then yeah, maybe.
00:39 < Teceler> but I think ME might need to get help from people with less expensive teleportation for this plan
00:40 < Teceler> which is good! Cooperation to solve problems is a good thing!
00:40 < Keltablet> Yeah!
00:40 < Andygal> Yes, cooperation makes things more interesting.
00:40 < Keltablet> Miles?
00:40 < Keltablet> Miles is rather on fire
00:40 * Teceler glances at Miles' to-do-list
00:40 < Andygal> What would be useful was if somebody devised a way to tell what kids were going to become in advance.
00:40 < Keltablet> Ha-ha
00:41 < Andygal> which is totally a thing that is theoretically possible.
00:41 < Teceler> Eclipse could prooobably do that
00:41 < Keltablet> Eclipse?
00:41 < Teceler> if they knew it was possible
00:41 < Keltablet> Was suggesting
00:41 < Teceler> Tyche was interpreting what Anda said as it not being
00:41 < Teceler> but they would probably check if they could
00:41 < Teceler> because, well
00:41 < Teceler> it would be an easy thing to check and would solve a lot of problems
00:42 < Keltablet> Linda could say something prompt double check?
00:42 < Keltablet> S
00:42 < Andygal> Well, if anybody asks for details, channels are special in that they often can be identified before birth.
00:42 < Keltablet> How?
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00:43 < Andygal> fetuses draw selyn fro their mother during pregnancy, channel fetuses draw more than usual.
00:43 < Kel> (Acab?)
00:43 < Teceler> huh
00:43 < Teceler> (?)
00:43 < linkhyrule5> Eclipse can definitely do it /now/ :p
00:43 < linkhyrule5> (detect differences)
00:44 < Andygal> so yes, if you could do that, teleporting would be less necessary.
00:44 < Teceler> that doesn't help the Gen kids in Sime territory
00:45 < Teceler> but there are other solutions that might be more effective there
00:45 < Kel> Assigned channel at birth. Sorry not actually funny
00:46 < Andygal> if you could let the kids know, without their parents finding out, they might still be able to sneak away before they actually matured, when it would be easier for them to sneak off.
00:46 < Teceler> yes
00:46 < Teceler> which would be /tricky/ but doable
00:46 < Kel> If a way to make all sime channels?
00:46 < Andygal> assuming you could do it in a way that the kids would pay attention to.
00:47 < linkhyrule5> Start a rumor about "how you can tell if you're a Sime"
00:47 < Andygal> (rainbowtruths for everyone?)
00:47 < linkhyrule5> and then actually do a change to make that happen?
00:47 < linkhyrule5> Something silly like "your left tentacle is slightly orange"
00:47 < linkhyrule5> and then apply an illusion so that Simes see their /own/ left tentacle as orange
00:47 < Kel> Do both have tentacles?
00:47 < linkhyrule5> (I forget which is which)
00:47 < Andygal> Nope.
00:47 < Andygal> only Simes get tentacles.
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00:48 < Teceler> maybe some kind of pattern on their hands showing up to them and only them
00:48 < Kel> You're fingernails shimmer?
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00:48 < Teceler> maybe that
00:48 < Andygal> maybe.
00:48 < Andygal> spread via happy memetic virus!
00:49 < Kel> Pffdt
00:49 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
00:49 < linkhyrule5> So many benevolent exsurgent strains runnign around
00:49 < Kel> Hey do you want to set unity on bad fire?
00:49 < linkhyrule5> pffff
00:49 < Kel> ?
00:49 < linkhyrule5> Is this the spirit exsurgent thinig?
00:49 < Andygal> Pffffft
00:49 < Kel> Yes stril
00:50 < Kel> Still
00:50 * linkhyrule5 headdesks
00:50 < linkhyrule5> I feel like Unity has enough problems :p
00:50 < Andygal> :D
00:50 < Andygal> No rogue exsurgent virus strains.
00:50 < Andygal> too much fire.
00:50 < Kel> Aw
00:51 < Kel> Puppy eyes?
00:51 < linkhyrule5> Puppy eyes aren't very adorable after they've been exsurgent-ed
00:51 < linkhyrule5> >.>
00:51 < Teceler> XD
00:51 < Kel> Basilisk eyes?
00:51 < Teceler> XDXDXD
00:51 < linkhyrule5> Esthfora'd.
00:51 < linkhyrule5> :p
00:51 * Andygal suggests inflicting the exsurgent virus on D'ni.
00:51 < linkhyrule5> pfffff
00:51 < linkhyrule5> .... oh gods
00:52 < linkhyrule5> ccould the virus write Books?
00:52 < linkhyrule5> Because if you /infect a Descriptive Book/
00:52 < linkhyrule5> the /universe itself is exsurgent/
00:52 < Kel> Myst cant entriekechy
00:52 < Andygal> ahahahahaha.
00:52 * Andygal was being facetious and did not intend to set something on fire!
00:52 < Kel> Me can't Myst workd
00:53 < Kel> ME
00:53 < Kel> world
00:53 < Kel> Ugh
00:53 < linkhyrule5> Exsurgent isn't really an Entelechy thing anymore though
00:53 < linkhyrule5> It's an Eclipse thing really.
00:54 < Kel> Ooh hey pollute book collections with link to exs world!
00:54 < Teceler> Kel
00:54 < Kel> Yeah?
00:54 < Teceler> I think you need to sleep
00:54 < Andygal> <3
00:54 < Kel> Oh yeah i guess it's kinda midnight
00:54 < Kel> Thanks
00:54 < Andygal> SLEEP!
00:55 < Kel> I like you a lot you are really cool and nice
00:55 < Teceler> sleep well
00:55 < Kel> <3
00:55 < Andygal> you desperately need to sleep, so sleep.
00:55 < Aestrix> Good night <3
00:55 < Kel> (I'm tired but also i am energy)
00:56 < Kel> But i guess i should actually try to do sleep
00:56 < Kel> Good night!
00:56 < Teceler> that is your brain trying to do deal with you apparantly needing to be awake???
00:56 < Teceler> sleep well
00:56 < Kel> No like super enthusiastic wanna keep going for hours energy
00:57 < Andygal> sleeeeep.
00:57 < Kel> Thanks! Night!
00:57 < Teceler> that sounds like that thing
00:57 < Kel> Ilu
00:57 < Teceler> sleep well
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01:05 < sonatagreen> sploot
01:05 < Andygal> sploot?
01:05 < sonatagreen> I bounced
01:08 * Andygal dribbles sonatagreen.
01:08 < Andygal> ...and I should probably be going to bed if I'm making jokes like that.
01:08 < sonatagreen> hee
01:08 < sonatagreen> goodnight.
01:08 * Andygal has to brush teeth first.
01:22 < Teceler> I think... I am going to go sleep too
01:22 < Andygal> night teceler.
01:22 < Teceler> thanks
01:23 < Aestrix> Good night
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01:24 < Teceler|Asleep> goodnight all
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07:17 < Kel> Morning!
07:17 < Kel> (I'm on tablet) is anyone here?
07:19 < Kel> Also if it does the annoying thing where it tells everyone I'm quitting and joining I'll close the tab
07:19 < Kel> If someone tells me about it
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