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Post by Mother Starlight on May 25, 2015 4:59:26 GMT
Spoilered because long. 12:16 -!- MotherStarlight changed the topic of #backstage to: MWF OOC -- Channel is (hopefully) logged
12:24 -!- kappabeta has joined #backstage
12:33 -!- Teceler has joined #backstage
12:35 -!- Adelene has joined #backstage
12:36 <~MotherStarlight> Hi.
12:37 < Adelene> Hi :)
12:38 < Teceler> Hi, all.
13:07 < Teceler> It is very quiet here.
13:08 <~MotherStarlight> Yep.
13:08 <~MotherStarlight> I imagine it'll warm up when we have something to talk about.
13:09 < Teceler> probably
13:17 < Adelene> I can babble about Lurker if you want, she's a bit stalled right now but she has plot planned. :D
13:18 < Teceler> If you would like to talk about Lurker, I at least would find that interesting
13:18 < Adelene> (By 'stalled' I mean, like, she's busy learning to read and I'm probably already pushing credibility too far by saying it's only going to take her two weeks to get to the point of being able to read her first spellbook.)
13:21 -!- MTC has joined #backstage
13:21 <~MotherStarlight> Well, there's a tradeoff between time spent learning to read and time spent actually reading, and the optimum if you only need to read one book might turn out to be relatively short.
13:21 < Teceler> If you want an educators opinion on how long it takes kids to learn how to read I can consult the one here when she wakes up, but you've probably done research
13:22 <~MotherStarlight> How long do you think it would take you to get through a book in a language you don't know, splitting your time between studying the language and studying the book however you see fit?
13:22 < Adelene> I haven't been able to find anything, actually, everything I've been able to dig up just says 'it varies'.
13:22 <~MotherStarlight> *don't know _yet_
13:22 < Teceler> There probably is also some factor of how much consulting a dictionary when you hit a word you don't know the spellbook would accept
13:22 < Adelene> Me personally, more than two weeks, I kind of suck at languages.
13:23 < Teceler> I'll ask her when she wakes up, then. She could probably at least give a range
13:23 < Adelene> *nod*
13:24 < Adelene> Lurker isn't really trying to read *in general*, she just wants to be able to read spellbooks even if it takes several days for each one.
13:24 < Teceler> Worst case scenario, you could probably say time passed faster for her than it did for the forum
13:25 < Adelene> *nod*
13:25 < Teceler> I am getting an amusing image of her winding up being able to read with an extremely specialized vocabulary
13:25 < Adelene> *giggle*
13:26 < Adelene> I'd take time dialation if it was offered but I already feel kinda bad about opening the door to translation fails (whether that would have happened anyway or not) so I'm a bit leery of it.
13:26 <~MotherStarlight> I already mentioned time dilation with Gray Librarian, though that might be attributed to the Library being weird.
13:27 <~MotherStarlight> also, Did You Know you can emote with /me?
13:27 * MotherStarlight demonstrates
13:27 < Adelene> Yeah, my brain isn't so great about changing formats for different contexts though and asterix form is more generally robust.
13:28 <~MotherStarlight> fair enough.
13:28 <~MotherStarlight> if I were running Carp, I'd say there's a reading skill and she gets faster as she exercises it.
13:28 < Adelene> Yup, that's DF canon more or less.
13:28 <~MotherStarlight> dunno how you break into a skill initially though.
13:29 < Adelene> There's a reader skill but no books quite yet, they'll be in the next version and presumbaly work the same way as any other skill.
13:29 < Adelene> DF in general says that any person can use any skill even if they've never done it before, they'll just be very slow and the results will be low-quality.
13:30 < Adelene> (Also this assumes they have the tools, but that's not relevant here.)
13:31 < Adelene> I'm more playing the DR mechanics as an abstraction that lets the player interact with the place, rather than being the real physics, though.
13:32 < Adelene> *DF
13:32 < Adelene> I am not very brain right now, sorry :P
13:32 < Teceler> I am vaguely recalling there being some use for reading in Adventure Mode, but that may be out of date
13:33 < Adelene> In adventure mode you can find and read necromancy books to become a necromancer, I think. I've never played adventure, though.
13:33 < Teceler> Okay, I asked, and she wants a clearer definition of 'reading', in the sense of complexity level
13:33 < Adelene> Being able to get through Hop On Pop.
13:34 < Adelene> Specifically, with access to it through the learning process, not necessarily any other book even a Seus one.
13:35 < Teceler> yeah, that sounds like what I remember. I haven't played much adventure mode, but that was in the guide I read
13:36 < Teceler> She says, 'maybe a year, that's first grade material', but I don't know how much that goes down when it's the only thing she's doing
13:37 < Adelene> mm.
13:38 < Teceler> she also says that motivation can affect it, and related skills can affect it
13:38 < Teceler> 'is the language they're learning to read in more like English or Spanish'?
13:38 < Teceler> ...which, she has a point, English is awful that way
13:39 < Adelene> I mean, it's a fantasy language and I haven't conlang'd it, but it's probably safe to assume it's simple and also that the written form is optimized to be relatively easy to learn given the people who use it don't have formal schools.
13:40 <~MotherStarlight> That's a really good point
13:40 < Teceler> She's saying a few weeks for an adult with motivation, and I haven't gotten a response on the language yet -- a few weeks at half-an-hour to an hour a day
13:41 < Adelene> It may actually be more hieroglyph-like, I've considered that option.
13:41 < Adelene> Oh cool, so two weeks is actually a good estimate.
13:41 < Adelene> (She's spending way more than an hour a day on it but shes also not, uh, actually fluent in the language.)
13:42 < Teceler> 'you would have to learn the sound each letter/symbol makes, and if they change when you combine them. You have understand that the symbols contain meaning and print conventions (left to right / right to left)'
13:43 < Adelene> *nod*
13:44 < Teceler> It also depends on how good the are at it natively, and the vocabulary she needs
13:44 < Teceler> 'would she already know the vocabulary the book uses, that makes a big difference'
13:45 < Adelene> I'm not actually clear on how that works, for spellbooks.
13:45 < Teceler> 'if it contains unfamiliar vocabulary (that she has to learn by decoding the text) it will be harder'
13:45 < Adelene> It sounded to me like you didn't need any particular vocabulary at all, but, like.
13:46 < Teceler> MotherStarlight?
13:46 -!- Hadassah has joined #backstage
13:47 < Hadassah> Hiyas all
13:47 < Teceler> (there was also some about how she could be really good at it if that worked better and that there's only so much information you can cram at once)
13:47 < Teceler> Hi
13:48 < Adelene> I dunno that Lurker's particularly talented at reading, but she is good at self-teaching or she wouldn't be able to use language at all.
13:48 < Adelene> Hi Hasassah :)
13:49 < Adelene> *growls at keyboard*
13:49 < Teceler> is that self-teaching specifically or learning in general, do you think?
13:49 < Adelene> Both, really.
13:50 < Adelene> Lurker is way smart along that sort of axis - remember that she's literally the only kobold in her tribe that can speak, she picked that up on her own and has managed to keep the skill with very little opportunity to practice it.
13:50 <~MotherStarlight> *back*
13:50 < Teceler> How did the other kobold -- the mage? -- in her tribe learn?
13:51 < Adelene> Nonverbal methods, Carp magic does allow for that, it's just inefficient and risky.
13:51 < Teceler> and yeah, that's really impressive, thinking about it. Though she is probably getting a bunch more practice now
13:51 < Adelene> *nodnod*
13:51 < Teceler> ah
13:51 < Teceler> We were wondering how much vocabulary spellbooks needed
13:52 < Adelene> Carp magic involves shooting beams of light out of your hands at whatever you're casting on, and if someone sticks their hand in the beam they can kind of see what you're doing.
13:52 <~MotherStarlight> I'll say you don't strictly need any particular vocabulary, but reading speed is proportional to vocabulary size
13:52 <~MotherStarlight> so learning more vocabulary *helps*
13:53 < Teceler> Porportional the size of the /relevant/ vocabulary, sure, because you have to work out what unfamiliar vocabulary means
13:53 < Adelene> It doesn't tell them why you're doing that as opposed to anything else or what similar options might be safe or unsafe, and Carp magic kills mages who annoy it, but for simple stuff it works ok.
13:53 < Teceler> That is an interesting magic system. I don't think I've mentioned that before, but it is.
13:53 < Adelene> ^^
13:55 < Teceler> and vocabulary size is generally a decent heuristic for reading skill, but with regards to a specific thing it is more relevant how much of the vocabulary it uses is known
13:55 < Hadassah> I agree, and I love how consistent you play the character. Its a joy to read.
13:55 < Adelene> :D
13:55 < Teceler> Though it might also be useful to know how hard it is to work out unfamiliar vocabulary for context
13:55 < Teceler> *from context
13:55 < Adelene> It's going to be really funny if Lurker ever visits Hadassah, by the way.
13:55 <~MotherStarlight> relevant vocab: I was thinking more along the lines of the spellbook uses whatever vocabulary you have, so more available words means it can encode more bits of information per word
13:55 <~MotherStarlight> which is completely unrealistic, but
13:56 < Teceler> they are magic spellbooks
13:56 < Adelene> Nah, up goer five is a thing.
13:56 < Hadassah> Hahaha
13:56 <~MotherStarlight> spellbooks are native to a world where literacy is all or nothing, and this whole thing is totally ad hoc
13:57 < Adelene> It does sound like two weeks is not actually ridiculous, given she's entirely willing to spend an entire day sounding out Hop On Pop if that'll get her the magic she wants.
13:57 < Teceler> Lurker is sufficiently difficult to read that I wouldn't necessarily call it a 'joy' (I know Thorn would be interacting with her more, or trying to, if she could understand Lurker better), but other than that, yes, what Hadassah said.
13:58 < Adelene> ^^
13:58 < Adelene> Lurker is going to get fluencied a few days after she picks up her first Dungeon spell, so that will help things. ^^
13:59 < Hadassah> Funny, I can read Lurker so much easier than I can, say, Lantern or Orz. Is she going to be going on a world tour, so to speak?
13:59 < Adelene> (Maybe more than a few days, I'd have to check my math, but not more than a couple weeks anyway.)
13:59 < Teceler> She is /interesting/ to read, and enjoyable in senses other than that one, though. (And if Thorn had more investment she would likely try harder, but she does not at the moment).
13:59 < Adelene> Lurker will eventually be gratuitously magical and tour-inclined, yes. :D
14:00 < Teceler> The fluencying will probably be useful for a number of things
14:00 < Adelene> I don't have any specific reason for her to want to visit Pantheon but she won't hesitate if one appears, once she can.
14:00 < Adelene> *nod* re: fluency
14:02 < Adelene> It is going to be a plot point soonish that Lurker can't perfectly keep the invisibility-to-magic turned off even if she wants to, though. :D
14:02 < Teceler> Thorn will strongly recommend, if consulted and Lurker is considering it, (she knows very little about interdimensional transport besides that it is apparently possible at the moment, but ignoring that), that Eclipse /not/ be on the tour. :P
14:02 < Hadassah> Haha, well Hadassah would welcome her, though Hadassah doesn't have a bed for her to stay in.
14:02 < Adelene> *nod* Lurker will definitely be inclined to listen to, and probably to solicit, that sort of advice.
14:03 < Adelene> Beds are minimally important, Lurker will be far too gratuitously magic for that to be an inconvenience by that point. ^^
14:05 < Teceler> Well, there's the security-related paranoia (I am currently having trouble convincing them not to try to disconnect the forum via melting down the things it connected to in case that helps), /and/ there's the local exsurgent issue
14:07 < Teceler> 'given that she's already good at language, and a relatively simple text, two weeks might be believable'
14:07 < Adelene> Cool. :3
14:08 < Teceler> I did not mention your two-weeks estimate, so
14:08 < Adelene> *nod*
14:09 -!- linkhyrule5 has joined #backstage
14:09 < linkhyrule5> heylo
14:09 < Adelene> Hi!
14:09 < Teceler> hello
14:09 < Hadassah> Hiyas
14:09 < linkhyrule5> I suppose this is my owning up - in case there's anyone who didn't know, I'm Meletiti Entelecheiai
14:10 < linkhyrule5> (yes I can type that correctly on the first try every time :P )
14:10 < kappabeta> <3
14:10 < kappabeta> talent!
14:10 < linkhyrule5> loool
14:10 < Teceler> (that is a useful skill for you to have!)
14:10 < Adelene> *chuckle*
14:10 < linkhyrule5> So while i have everyone's attenion - what'd people think of my creation myth?
14:10 < Teceler> I owe you that response, don't I, oops, sorry
14:10 < kappabeta> I liked
14:10 < linkhyrule5> I'm kind of hoping it doesn't put people to sleep, since I'm hoping to bundle it up and send it somewhere
14:11 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - do I know you under another name?
14:11 < linkhyrule5> I'm guessing you're Thorn?
14:11 < Teceler> I'm Thorn's player
14:11 < Teceler> up
14:11 < Teceler> *yup
14:11 < linkhyrule5> yuss
14:11 < Adelene> I kinda skipped it, Lurker wouldn't've been able to make much sense of it.
14:11 < linkhyrule5> Ah, shame
14:11 < linkhyrule5> I'd appreciate your OOC critique
14:11 < Teceler> I felt like the bit at the end (I would have to dig it up to tell you exactly where, but after you described the planes) got a little incoherent
14:11 < linkhyrule5> (and I do mean critique here, because I kind of felt it was a little clunky but didn't know how to fix it)
14:11 < Adelene> I'm not brain enough to read something like that right now, maybe tomorrow or something.
14:11 < linkhyrule5> ^ Yeah, it feels al ittle rushed at the end
14:12 < linkhyrule5> loool, kay
14:12 < Teceler> or was hard to understand, or something
14:12 < linkhyrule5> If you can tell me exactly where later that'd be cool
14:12 < linkhyrule5> but yeah, that's basically how Entelechy started.
14:12 < Teceler> The bit where it says something happened to the world of matter, I got lost
14:12 < linkhyrule5> (There will be a post in the "intelligent species" thread that is lilke, 50% DO NOT MESS WITH DRAGONS)
14:13 < Teceler> 'Presumably the burgeoning draconic empire learned quickly not to interfere with nucleosynthesis' made me giggle, though
14:13 < Teceler> (Is that a bad idea, then? :P)
14:13 < linkhyrule5> Like I mentioned - there are loooots of ways to screw things up in ways that destroy random concepts or accidentally the Andromeda Galaxy
14:14 < linkhyrule5> There's probably some draconic emperor's name written in the Cosmic Microwave Background, too, as a really gaudy epitaph
14:14 < Teceler> Ah, is that dragon-related specifically? I thought that was general
14:14 < Teceler> ...hee
14:14 < linkhyrule5> haha
14:14 < linkhyrule5> THat's not dragon-related specifically
14:14 < linkhyrule5> it's jsut, dragons are old /and/ thnk faster than most humans
14:14 < linkhyrule5> they've had more time to screw things up
14:15 < Teceler> ah
14:15 < linkhyrule5> Most of the Earth-related disasters were human-caused
14:15 < linkhyrule5> Hm... so, I'll try rewriting the second bit, and explaining Matter more
14:15 < linkhyrule5> The /idea/ that I'm trying ot get across, if you have any suggestions, is that basically:
14:15 < linkhyrule5> Matter is self-reliance, so it created a plane that wasn't dependent on other magic
14:16 < linkhyrule5> The simplest such magicless plane that still has sapient life in it (anthropic principle) is ours.
14:16 < Teceler> Looking at it, it was "-- But that would be far too complex. Such a world would be inelegant, expensive, unstable.
14:16 < Teceler> And so the world of matter fell, to the simplest rules that could recreate all the elements, to the rules of reality that could reproduce the world without recourse to the rest of the Truth. And wood was given to the seed that would become the universe, and the universe was born." specifically that confused me
14:16 < Teceler> ah
14:16 < linkhyrule5> So it generated the laws of physics organically from the laws of metaphysics
14:16 < linkhyrule5> (I'm really trying to make Enteelchy rules as simple and self-consistent as possible. I'm a physicist, it's athing)
14:17 <~MotherStarlight> "And wood was given to the seed" -- is this just a metaphor, or is it referring to the element of Wood?
14:17 < linkhyrule5> Ah, I shoudl warn you - I may need to leave
14:17 < linkhyrule5> It's Wood, the element
14:17 < Teceler> incidentally, I kind of liked the mix of traditional and nontraditional elements, and how they seemed to be fairly comprehensive. Though metal hanging out on it's own if vaguely annoying, but I bet that's a sentiment ic, too
14:17 < linkhyrule5> Wood is given to the seed, and the seed grows - does the big bang
14:17 < linkhyrule5> It's a sentiment IC, yeah
14:18 <~MotherStarlight> I'd capitalize Wood then
14:18 < linkhyrule5> Not quite ethereal like time/space/etc, not quite totally universal, /why does it have a physical form at all if it's connections!/
14:19 < Teceler> having simple and self-consistent rules is always useful for world-building
14:19 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - thanks! I kind of grabbed all the existing elements from a mix of cultures, Wood and Metal and Lightning in particular came from various Five ELements definitions
14:19 < linkhyrule5> That and - the original reason I made this system was because I was tired of /not knowing my character's magic/.
14:19 < Teceler> that would be annoying
14:19 < linkhyrule5> Like, D&D, it's all "cast Fireball!" and you have /no idea/ what your character was doing
14:20 < linkhyrule5> So I wanted to make a system where I would be as good a mage as my character
14:20 < linkhyrule5> and that meant writing down /all/ the laws of magic, with enough depth that I could make my own spells
14:20 < linkhyrule5> that big image in front? Really is a spell of perfect comprehension in-system, though I make no guarntees about how accurate/effective/efficient/elegant it is :P
14:21 < Teceler> While you're here, Thorn is contemplating messaging ME to ask what he's planning with regards to Cassandra, because she feels vaguely responsible for that mess.
14:21 < linkhyrule5> actually leaving in a sec, but -
14:21 < Teceler> I assume some fraction of that requires consulting with Grigori's player, though
14:21 < Teceler> okay
14:21 < linkhyrule5> Basically, "freeing someone from slavery" is worth actually spending some power on, and it's probably not too hard (he thinks) to set up a Mania-drip for her if he uses his magic to do it
14:22 < linkhyrule5> The fact that "Mania drip" is a coherent concept is basically all he needs for that to be possible
14:22 < linkhyrule5> And obv we'd have to consult with Grigori's player, yeah
14:22 < Teceler> ...except that he's going to run into that brick wall with Darkness, isn't he?
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14:23 < linkhyrule5> yep!
14:23 < Adelene> If you want to have him do that in a fairly expensive way and keep looking for alternatives, Carp magic will be able to replicate it costlessly eventually assuming Carp magic works there at all (and assuming Lurker can get there to cast it)
14:23 < linkhyrule5> So ME will have her first real challenge
14:23 < linkhyrule5> *his
14:23 < linkhyrule5> (though on arandom note, I don't hink he cares very much, he's kind of male-by-default)
14:23 < linkhyrule5> anywho relaly need to go now, bbl
14:23 < Teceler> (I had a moment of 'have I been misgendering em?')
14:23 < Teceler> okay, good luck with whatever you're doing
14:25 < Adelene> Lurker's gratuitous-magic gig is going to mostly be using various magic systems to jailbreak each other. For Carp in particular, you can't do human experimentation without killing people even if the spells inolved are benign, but once Lurker knows someone who can remove Carp spells from people that won't be an issue.
14:26 -!- linkhyrule5 has quit
14:26 < Adelene> (Which then allows her to learn how to set peoples' max and current MP, among other tricks. :D )
14:27 < Teceler> ...such cross-magic cheatery. :P
14:27 < Adelene> Yup!
14:30 < kappabeta> http://imgur.com/NJ2pyVZ lookit Swish, everybody!
14:31 < Adelene> cutie!
14:31 < kappabeta> :D
14:31 < sonatagreen> eeeee
14:32 < kappabeta> I am so proud.
14:33 < Teceler> such pretty
14:36 < Adelene> ...oh! That would solve that one problem, wouldn't it.
14:36 < Teceler> ?
14:37 < Adelene> Carp magic allows for changing objects' properties; there's no obvious reason that you couldn't use it to give a rock the properties of steel.
14:37 < Adelene> Which is bad.
14:37 < Adelene> But, if you do that even to a sword-shaped rock, you don't actually get a sharp rock-with-steel-properties.
14:38 < Adelene> So you'd have to sharpen it, which seems like it would count as breaking and therefore lose you the spell.
14:38 < Teceler> ...wouldn't that be really heavy (depending on the rock I guess)?
14:38 < Teceler> ah
14:38 < Adelene> You can also change the weight, so that's not an issue.
14:38 < Teceler> ah
14:38 < sonatagreen> What if you start with a flint knife?
14:39 < Teceler> you can't pre-sharpen the rock you want to use? I support that's more niche and thus less concerning, though, even if you can
14:39 < Teceler> *suppose
14:39 < Adelene> *nod* I'd say that that would work, but it'd dull eventually.
14:39 < Adelene> And might well break for magic purposes even before you needed to sharpen it; it doesn't take much.
14:40 < sonatagreen> and you can't do any maintenance, right
14:40 < Adelene> I'm not sure what kind of maintenance kinves need, you could like rub oil on it or something no problem though.
14:41 < Teceler> but actually using the knife risks breaking the spell?
14:41 < Adelene> Anything that removes part of the original knife, even a small part, counts as breaking.
14:42 < Teceler> and the magic can't make it sturdier very welll
14:42 < Teceler> *well?
14:42 < Adelene> Unless that part was explicitly excluded from the spell's definition of 'the knife', in which case it wouldn't be affected by the spell in most cases.
14:42 < Adelene> It can make it sturdier within the limits of what mundane matter can do.
14:43 < Teceler> ...wait, if, does this have atomic mechanisms? I'm not sure how much the atomic structure of solids changes just sitting around, but I feel like that might be a thing
14:43 < Teceler> *does Carp have
14:43 < Adelene> There's also a tech limitation - thinking about it, a diamond knife would actually get around most of this but I doubt they have a way to realize that.
14:44 < Teceler> how much would obsidian? That might be more likely to be an idea
14:44 < Adelene> Internal changes don't count as breaking, you can enspell a normal rock and reasonably expect it to still be magic in 100 years if nobody knocks a chunk off of it.
14:45 < Teceler> That makes sense. Would things like rust be a problem for magic purposes?
14:46 < Adelene> Yup.
14:46 < Teceler> (tell me if I'm asking too many questions)
14:46 < Adelene> Something turning into rust wouldn't break it but the rust flaking off would.
14:46 < Teceler> that makes sense.
14:47 < Teceler> if someone enspelled some clay and turned into pottery would the magic stick as long as they used all of it?
14:47 < Adelene> As another edge case that seems relevant here: If you have an enclosed room you can magic the air in that room and the spell won't break until someone opens the door.
14:48 < Teceler> but once you open the door diffusion starts. That makes sense.
14:48 < Adelene> If they enspelled the clay right before baking it and made sure it wasn't, like, attached to whatever it baked on (hard, I think?) then yeah, that'd work.
14:49 < Adelene> But enspelling clay and then working it wouldn't, youd break the spell the first time you got some stuck on your hands.
14:49 < Adelene> (Also, in the cast-right-before-baking case you'd have to specify that the water in the clay didnt' count as part of it, which would be hard.)
14:50 < Teceler> (I was about to ask that, because my question was more if the evaporation would count, which it apparently does)
14:50 < Adelene> You can also enspell a lake, I think, so some *small* amount of evaporation shouldn't count, but you can't count on a lake staying enspelled like you can count on a rock doing.
14:51 < Teceler> I would think any rivers feeding off of it would break that. Or is this more one that doesn't?
14:52 < Adelene> A river would break it, yeah.
14:52 < Teceler> what happens if you try to enspell a mountain?
14:53 < Adelene> That'd be a royal pain to do in the first place, but it'd work for a reasonable amount of time if you were smart about what you told the spell to consider as part of the mountain.
14:53 < Teceler> or a rock that was then put in a river? Or just out in the open where it rains frequently?
14:53 < Adelene> (Like, you'd have to worry about tree roots and boulders knocking chunks off of
14:53 < Teceler> that makes sense
14:54 < Adelene> ...cat...
14:54 < Adelene> River rock would last until the first good knock by another rock, rain rock would last longer but rain could break a rock spell eventually.
14:55 < Teceler> so erosion breaks it, but slowly.
14:55 < Adelene> *nod*
14:56 * Teceler tries to think of more edge cases
14:56 < Adelene> The rain rock would be a slower version of the evaporating lake.
14:56 < sonatagreen> It seems like depending on the spell you could just enchant the inner part of the rock, and then it'd be a lot more robust
14:57 < Teceler> how long would those take to break, do you think?
14:57 < Adelene> Depending on what you want the spell to do, yeah. Trouble is that spells can only make effects at the edges of the things they're cast on.
14:58 < Adelene> How long would which take to break?
14:58 < Teceler> And eventually it would erode down to the inner part and you would have the same problem, I would think
14:58 < Adelene> *nod*
14:58 < Adelene> That'd take a long, long time under most circumstances though.
14:58 < Teceler> the rain rock and the evaporating lake, mostly. On a scale of years/decades/centuries/etc
14:59 < Adelene> The lake would be weeks to months, the rock presumably many years in a normal outdoor environment but I don't know much about how that sort of weathering works.
14:59 < Teceler> fair enough
15:01 < Teceler> if you enspelled molten glass and managed to use exactly the amount you enspelled for whatever you're doing (this seems like a silly thing to do, but nevermind that for the moment), it would hold after the glass cooled, correct?
15:01 < Adelene> Yup.
15:02 < sonatagreen> Can you reshape an enchanted object by melting and re-solidifying it?
15:03 < Adelene> If you don't lose any of it. And for most spells you'd end up with it being unusable even if it's not technically broken.
15:03 < Teceler> what does happen if you enspell something alive? I imagine you could specify something well enough that, say, hair falling off wouldn't matter, but things like dead skin and blood would be harder
15:03 < Adelene> Alive things don't break unless you kill them, because handwave.
15:03 < Teceler> also waste
15:03 < Teceler> ah
15:04 < Teceler> if they're a special class of thing as far as the magic is concerned that sort of makes sense
15:04 < sonatagreen> I feel like the correct interpretation here is "the concept of a single object is coherent in this world, because videogame physics"
15:04 -!- MTC has quit
15:05 < Adelene> Re: unusable, most spells are designed to react to being touched at various places on the outside of the object, or to emit light or sound or whatever at places on the outside of the object. If you melt an enspelled object down, those places cease to exist, so the intended input/output can't happen any more.
15:05 < Teceler> The obvious question is then, what happens if you enspell a caterpillar? Or a tadpole, or something else that undergoes significant metamorphosis
15:05 < Adelene> When you cast a spell on the object you have to specify what you mean by 'the object', it doesn't lean on pre-existing definitions.
15:06 < Adelene> Morphing animals don't break their spells but may run into trouble with spell-specified structures not existing any more.
15:06 * Teceler nods.
15:07 < Adelene> In the caterpillar case in particular my understanding is that they kind of -- goop, and rebuild from scratch? In which case if you enspelled a caterpillar to take spell input from its legs that wouldn't still work on the resulting butterfly.
15:08 < Teceler> How dangerous is a spell breaking to the mage, exactly? Lurking said something about that, but I had trouble with understanding it. Does it depend on the spell?
15:08 < Teceler> ah
15:08 < Adelene> Breaking a spell is perfectly safe for the caster.
15:08 < Teceler> but if it was 'this creature will glow' it might still work?
15:08 < Adelene> *nod*
15:08 < Teceler> ah
15:09 < Teceler> for some reason I had the impression it was dangerous. Was that something else?
15:09 < Adelene> The thing with spells killing their caster is that - if you think of a spell as a program, in a case where it would run into a fatal error, the error is in fact fatal.
15:09 < Teceler> for the caster, not just the spell?
15:09 < Adelene> Yeah.
15:10 < Adelene> For miscasts, there's a grace period of at least a day but no more than three days, where you can break it and the caster will be okay; that's what Lurker's mage was woried about needing to do.
15:11 < Teceler> it seems like most things spells do don't involve the caster (unless they're designed to), but that one does?
15:11 < Adelene> *nod*
15:11 < Teceler> why didn't they wind up breaking it? Other than plot reasons
15:12 < Adelene> Well, not everything that doesn't do what the caster was planning is actually a miscast.
15:12 < Teceler> what's the distinction?
15:13 < Adelene> Whether it kills the caster, mostly. But happy accidents are often useful, so there is some advantage to taking the risk and seeing if you have something you might want more of.
15:13 < Teceler> ah
15:14 < Teceler> so if it doesn't seem like it would run into something that would kill them, they might keep it?
15:14 < Adelene> Something like that.
15:15 < Adelene> There's no firm dividing line but the more sensible the unexpected result is, the more likely it is to be a happy accident rather than a miscast.
15:15 < Teceler> (except then outside context problems)
15:15 < Adelene> And the forum did seem pretty sensible.
15:15 < Teceler> in relation to the original spell?
15:16 < Adelene> In general. It's a thing that does things that make sense as something that someone might want to do.
15:16 < Teceler> ah
15:16 < kappabeta> XD
15:17 < Adelene> (Also I think the mage in question was, like - pretty low standing in the tribe to begin with.)
15:17 < Teceler> (I was just thinking, 'by what definition is this forum sensible?' that might be Thorn bleeding through some, but)
15:17 < Adelene> heh.
15:17 < Teceler> (...ah)
15:18 < Teceler> (wouldn't someone who could do magic be more important? --I guess not if he wasn't very good at it)
15:18 < Adelene> Yeah, actually, now that I specificaly ask Lurker about it, it seems that the mage's last, like, four or five magics had failed, and the chief was getting pretty fed up with them.
15:19 < Teceler> ...how much in the way of resources does spell-casting take? I didn't get the impression it was much
15:19 < Adelene> Especially since a mage who can't cast reliably can't cast on people.
15:19 < Adelene> Not much at all.
15:19 < Adelene> Usually none, sometimes some reusable crystals if you're enspelling something large.
15:20 < Teceler> So it was just that they needed effective magic for things and the mage seemed like e could and then repeatedly couldn't, and that was frustrating?
15:21 < Adelene> That, and one of kobold mages' primary responsibilities is giving little kobolds the illusion spell, so a mage who can't cast on people and is looking like they're not going to be able to learn how to is pretty useless to a tribe.
15:22 < Teceler> and if they aren't very good at much else... I see.
15:22 < Adelene> (You miscast on a person, somebody dies, it's kind of a big deal.)
15:48 < Teceler> I'm trying to remember if there is anyone else on the forum with indentured servitude/slavery or 'not considered a person' problems. I have Cassandra (the subject of the message), Hadassah, and Swish-sort-of, but I feel like I'm forgetting someone.
15:49 < Adelene> Lurker's world contains that problem, but she's not personally at risk of being subjected to it.
15:50 < Adelene> (Well, aside from the 'not considered a person' bit but that's not a *problem* in her usual contexts.)
15:51 < Teceler> (well, most of the people she was interacting with considered her a person, right? She hasn't really talked much about having a problem of that kind)
15:51 < Adelene> Yeah.
15:52 < Adelene> Animalpeople consider her a person and some goblins do, humans and dwarves don't but she never interacts with them, elves don't but can't trap her to sell her and would be just as inclined to eat her if she was a person.
15:53 < Teceler> ...wow, those elves.
15:53 < Adelene> They are a piece of work, yes.
15:54 < Teceler> every time something new gets mentioned about them, it somehow manages to make them even worse
15:54 < Adelene> *giggle*
15:55 < Adelene> We've pretty much covered the worst of it, the bit where they go to war against anyone who cuts down significant numbers of trees is more weird than awful.
15:56 < Teceler> it is, however, very weird :P
15:56 < Adelene> Yup!
15:56 < Adelene> Plenty of room to be also awful. ^^
15:57 < Adelene> (Also, that's all canon, I've filled in some details but that's all.)
15:58 < Teceler> (I knew the trees thing was canon, and the trapping thing but not in that context. The not-cannibalism, not so much)
15:59 < Adelene> The not-cannibalim is something they canonically do only to defeated enemies, but it definitely happens. Also actual-cannibalism, same context.
16:00 < Teceler> they have wars with each other, too, huh?
16:00 < Adelene> Yup.
16:01 < Adelene> I'm not sure exactly how that works but from peoples' reports of reading legends mode its definitely a thing.
16:01 < Adelene> *it's
16:01 < sonatagreen> now I'm imagining the wars start when they try to sell each other wooden goods
16:01 < Adelene> I hate this keyboard. :P
16:01 < Teceler> that's certain a mental image
16:02 < Teceler> *certainly
16:02 < sonatagreen> "I'll trade you this wooden flute for your -- IS THAT A WOODEN FLUTE? DIE MONSTER"
16:02 < Adelene> I think they're meant to be able to sell wood to each other just fine? That might not be in the code yet 'cause you'd never see it, but I'd expect them to assume that elf-made wooden goods were kosher.
16:03 < sonatagreen> I seem to remember that if the wooden stuff you bought from them last year is still in the trade depot when they come back then they'll get mad
16:04 < Teceler> I think that either got fixed or is on the list of things to get fixed, though
16:04 < sonatagreen> oh
16:04 < Adelene> Yeah, they don't *recognize* elf-made goods as special once they leave the map, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't, like, recognize that they're trading with elves and assume based on that.
16:05 < sonatagreen> I mean, realistically, sure. But my way is funnier.
16:05 < sonatagreen> Also, it provides the rulers with a ready excuse any time a war would be expedient.
16:05 < Adelene> heh.
16:05 < Teceler> I actually think last time I played (which was a while ago, so I'm not sure), elf-made wooden goods had a unique description-thing
16:06 < Teceler> 'we suspect they made their wooden goods unethically! war!' :P
16:07 < Teceler> right, if no one else can think of any other characters that should be on this list, I'll send the message, it's otherwise done.
16:07 < Teceler> --although, actually, would the new security measures cause problems for someone borrowing someone else's account with permission?
16:07 < sonatagreen> you could look through Raezenoth's posts? he tends to speak up about slavery
16:08 < Adelene> cat on hands cant ty[e
16:08 < sonatagreen> Generally, yes.
16:08 < Hadassah> *was playing games with SO so is very far behind* I will say that I was into quasi-sentient semi-slavery OCs before it was cool. =P
16:08 < kappabeta> heh
16:09 < kappabeta> Account-sharing: Miles is going to let Mark use his account. will he have to bug Mother Starlight before that'll work straightforwardly
16:10 < Teceler> you were the first, but the person borrowing Thorn's account (who may have to make her own if that's going to get blocked, joy), only heard about Cassandra to start with because Thorn was particularly concerned when she showed up
16:10 < Teceler> (at least, I think you were the first)
16:10 < kappabeta> someone's borrowing Thorn's account?
16:11 < sonatagreen> If Miles is sharing his account *intentionally* it should work okay, unless Esthfora's protections interfere with Mother Starlight's ability to read intentions.
16:11 < kappabeta> esthfora's protections shouldn't interfere with anything except exactly what they're supposed to interfere with
16:11 < Teceler> To write a message, yeah, because it was simpler to do it that way. I haven't actually sent it yet, it occurred to me to ask if that would get blocked
16:11 < kappabeta> so yeah
16:11 < sonatagreen> Your call whether Mark-impersonating-Miles can fool Mother Starlight.
16:11 < kappabeta> Hee.
16:12 < sonatagreen> though that would only apply to unauthorized sharing
16:13 < kappabeta> I think my call is that if for some reason Mark decided to borrow Miles's account *without* authorization (which isn't likely to come up since he's getting blanket permission), he could get caught if he was spending significant time not acting like Miles while browsing the forum
16:14 < Adelene> Oh there's a question, what does happen if someone tries to access the forum without authorization using someone else's account?
16:15 < sonatagreen> They automatically get logged out.
16:15 < Adelene> Lurker neither has nor understands passwords, she's just been keeping the mirror hidden but it's in no way imposible that a tigerperson could find it.
16:15 < Teceler> by the way, if I disappear suddenly it's probably because our power went our or the watch upgraded to a warning and we had to go hide in the closet. Or both. It will probably be fine, but
16:16 < sonatagreen> If I understand how Carp magic works, I think the tigerperson could use the mirror but would get their own account.
16:16 < Adelene> That makes sense.
16:16 < sonatagreen> What kind of natural disaster is hidden from in a closet?
16:16 < sonatagreen> like, basement I'd understand
16:17 < Teceler> tornado. We don't have a basement, and it's a central closet
16:17 < sonatagreen> ah. We don't have a basement but there's a building with one in walking distance where we go if there's a warning.
16:17 < Adelene> (Carp magic mostly *doesn't* work, for this kind of thing, but the reason it doesn't comes down to processing power limitations, so if the forum is willing to do system-compatable heavy lifting, sure.)
16:19 < sonatagreen> (Yeah, the forum can do stuff server-side. Mother Starlight prefers to integrate into native communications networks as a courtesy, but it's not strictly required.)
16:19 < Adelene> *nod*
16:20 < Adelene> If there *was* a forum type thing made out of Carp magic, it would definitely be inclined to just look at who was holding the input device to know who was using it, it's just the first part of that that doesn't happen.
16:27 < Teceler> so is Thorn's friend okay to send this or do they need to make their own account? They probably will anyway if they wind up doing more things, but I'm not sure if they will be, they just turned up
16:27 < sonatagreen> I think they'll need to make their own account.
16:28 < Teceler> okay
16:28 < Teceler> will do
16:28 < Teceler> (also, Thorn is correcting me to 'teammate', but I don't think she actually disagrees. [sigh])
16:33 < Adelene> Oh, this is kind of far future but to think about - when Lurker gets to the point of doing a lot of interworld traveling, she's going to go to worlds that the forum doesn't connect to, and she's going to want the option to give people forum access while she's there if she can.
16:35 < sonatagreen> They can definitely use the mirror if taking out of Carp doesn't break the spell, and she can ask Mother Starlight to prioritize those worlds for connection but that might not work out *immediately*.
16:36 < Adelene> That works less well in a Watsonian sense than I was thinking, but in a Doylesian sense, I like it. :)
16:37 < Teceler> why does blackberry have so many lines ow
16:38 < Teceler> (I really should have darkened the screen before I started poking at themes again)
16:38 < kappabeta> oh yeah, themes! I'm using Rose for Swish right now and it's super pretty but does't really suit them that well, is there a new batch of themes incoming anytime soon?
16:39 < sonatagreen> I had not been particularly thinking of it, do you have suggestions/ideas?
16:39 < kappabeta> Swish wants something... cheerful and informal, if that makes sense?
16:40 < kappabeta> Marshmallow is an example of the type but is taken by Esthfora, they'd also settle for Mint but I'm using that one for my OOC account
16:40 < kappabeta> the dark themes are too dark for her taste and Plain is too... stark?, and everything else is taken iirc
16:41 < kappabeta> Rose is super pretty though, gosh
16:41 < Teceler> well, at the moment, my suggestions are 'a version of blackberry without all the lines' and a version of console that is easier to tell where things are (& maybe not pitch black). More light-on-dark themes in general, really, they'r easier on my eyes.
16:42 < Teceler> but its not a huge thing, I just got surprised
16:42 < Adelene> If you're taking suggestions I would certainly not mind seeing a theme based on the colors I'm using for my computer in general, which is low-contrast-ish light-on-dark browns.
16:43 < Hadassah> Best of luck Teceler, I know the tornado watch feeling.
16:44 < sonatagreen> so I think standing requests are: 1) like marshmallow but not 2) blackberry without the lines 3) light-on-dark browns
16:44 < Adelene> *grabs RGBs*
16:44 < sonatagreen> for 3 have you tried Parchment? it's a little like that
16:45 < kappabeta> yeah
16:46 < Adelene> Main brown is 46, 29, 18; complementary background brown is 98, 55, 31; main text is 216, 200, 190, I also use plain black for oulines.
16:46 < Adelene> I think I'm using Parchment right now, and it's okay, but a little too bright for my tastes.
16:47 -!- linkhyrule5 has joined #backstage
16:50 < Adelene> Here's a slightly old version of my desktop if you want a better idea of how those colors are supposed to work: http://i.imgur.com/ZVsW6XP.png
16:52 < sonatagreen> Noted. (I'm working on 1 right now, but I'll get around to it soonish.)
16:53 < linkhyrule5> I return!
16:53 < Teceler> welcome back
16:53 < Teceler> for some reason the new account can't send pms to anyone but staff, did I miss a step somewhere in there?
16:57 < sonatagreen> PMs are blocked until you've made one post. Anti-spam precaution.
16:57 < Teceler> ah
16:57 < sonatagreen> If a spammer is harassing people, I want them to have to do it in public where I can catch them.
16:57 < Teceler> yeah, that makes sense
16:58 < sonatagreen> I *might* be able to manually unblock you if you want.
16:58 < sonatagreen> Theme 1: Cupcake
16:58 < sonatagreen> kappabeta
16:59 < kappabeta> oo
16:59 < Teceler> I was just going to note zir in the whose running which accounts threads once you said that, don't worry about it
16:59 < kappabeta> Swish approves greatly
16:59 < sonatagreen> :D
16:59 < Teceler> (although that does create the oddity of her having a post-count of 1 when icly she doesn't have any)
16:59 < kappabeta> it's so soft!
17:00 < kappabeta> you are a theme wizard
17:00 < sonatagreen> I can change that manually but it might reblock the pms.
17:00 < sonatagreen> Thanks!
17:00 < sonatagreen> anyway the official policy is to please ignore the post-count discrepancy
17:01 < Teceler> yeah, it's just slightly odder when it's binary like that
17:01 < sonatagreen> eh, ME had a post count of like twelve before they officially posted anything
17:01 < Teceler> that is true
17:05 < Teceler> by the way, not that this is likely to be something you can do anything about, but you can still get a 'send private message' button from someone's post and then it shows up with the recipient blank
17:05 < Teceler> it was weird
17:05 < sonatagreen> curious
17:08 < kappabeta> who is the new character going to PM?
17:09 < Teceler> ME. Originally they were going to use Thorn's account, but apparently couldn't. I don't know if they are going to show up more, we'll see.
17:11 < Teceler> At least they would probably be better at interacting with people than Thorn
17:11 < sonatagreen> Teceler: not sure how well this matches your aesthetics, but try Raspberry?
17:12 < sonatagreen> (theme 2)
17:15 < Teceler> pretty good; my only complaint is the the different modules aren't delinated, and that's a small thing
17:15 < sonatagreen> Modules?
17:16 * Teceler tries to think of a better word
17:16 < Teceler> like, there's the background, and then there's things like the header or the profile-thing that are on top of that?
17:17 < Adelene> I like Cupcake unexpectedly much for what it is. I would like 3 not to have the full-width thing going on tho.
17:17 < Teceler> it vaguely bothers we that they're both the same color and not broken apart
17:17 < sonatagreen> oh, I see
17:20 < sonatagreen> Teceler, I added borders, is this better?
17:21 < Teceler> yes, that's better. Thank you
17:21 < sonatagreen> You're quite welcome. Thanks for giving feedback.
17:24 < sonatagreen> notes to self, ignore me: main brown 2e1d12, complementary background brown 62371f, main text d8c8be
17:25 < Hadassah> I love the DOS-style theme, but the lack of borders (and not having a character I'd need it for) would prevent me from using it. but I do love it for immersiveness
17:25 < sonatagreen> I'm going to make a slightly more readable version for theme 4
17:25 < sonatagreen> thanks
17:39 < sonatagreen> Adelene: theme 3: Mocha
17:40 < Adelene> Excellent. :D
17:40 < sonatagreen> :D
17:40 < Adelene> The link blue is a little odd with those colors, though.
17:41 < sonatagreen> I wasn't sure what to do about that, do you have a better suggestion?
17:41 < Adelene> Let me poke around in paint.net
17:43 < Adelene> aabed8 ?
17:43 < sonatagreen> ok
17:44 < kappabeta> ooh, Mocha is lovely!
17:44 < kappabeta> you are such a theme wizard!
17:44 < Adelene> ^^
17:44 < sonatagreen> (even more understatedly, maybe d8c8ff ?)
17:46 < Adelene> Purple with brown is hard to pull off.
17:48 < Adelene> c8d8ff looks all right, I like aabed8 a little better though.
17:48 < sonatagreen> There's a small library of default color schemes. Sometimes I just use those, sometimes I modify them slightly, sometimes I do basically from scratch.
17:48 < sonatagreen> aabed8 it is, then.
17:48 < Adelene> :)
17:49 < sonatagreen> And of course then there's Mocha, which is sort of technically from scratch but the hard design decisions were already made for me.
17:49 < Adelene> ^^
17:56 < linkhyrule5> I don't supppose you could pull off something like SV's new default theme?
17:56 < linkhyrule5> (sufficient velocity)
17:56 < linkhyrule5> the one with the beautiful starry night sky background
17:56 < linkhyrule5> I feel like ME would totally use that if he had the option
17:56 < linkhyrule5> Oh, remind me, who runs QDS magic decisions?
17:56 < linkhyrule5> Is that Mother Starlight?
17:58 < Adelene> yup
17:58 < sonatagreen> yeah
17:58 < sonatagreen> Image background is possible but I haven't attempted it before, so maybe.
18:01 < linkhyrule5> for science? :P
18:02 < sonatagreen> If someone can find a nice, appropriately-licensed image, I'll give it a try.
18:04 < kappabeta> http://www.freeimages.com/pic/l/m/ma/magicmarie/1005288_32050087.jpg ?
18:05 < Adelene> That's got kind of a visible seam on the lower right, it'd bug me.
18:05 < kappabeta> oh, so it does
18:05 < kappabeta> I might could do something about that
18:05 < kappabeta> if it seems otherwise suitable
18:06 < Adelene> :)
18:07 * Teceler finishes fiddling with formatting and dumps Thorn's private messages to Backstage
18:09 < Adelene> It would be nice if clicking links in spoilers didn't close them. :P
18:10 < Teceler> ...augh.
18:10 < sonatagreen> I doubt that's fixable.
18:10 < Teceler> I can de-spoiler-tag them, but that just brings back the navigation problem
18:10 < Adelene> Make it so only clicking the 'spoiler' heading closes the spoiler?
18:11 < Adelene> I don't know enough html to know how easy that might be tho.
18:18 < linkhyrule5> wouldn't be html, I don't think?
18:18 < linkhyrule5> then again it's been a loooong time since I studied
18:18 < linkhyrule5> I learned html 3.0 or so
18:18 < Teceler> I would expect it to be javascript, but html 5 has some stuff that might be able to do that?
18:19 < linkhyrule5> HTML 5 ca napparently handle vidoes now >.>
18:19 < Teceler> precisely
18:21 < linkhyrule5> so, sonatagreen
18:21 < linkhyrule5> which version of create demiplane are you using?
18:21 < linkhyrule5> the one I know of is genesis from the Epic Level Handbook
18:38 < sonatagreen> *back*
18:39 < sonatagreen> It's not firmly tied to any particular version, though it's originally inspired by genesis
18:42 < kappabeta> I wish there was a clear single set of reference material on the function and nature of QDS spells
18:42 < sonatagreen> Sorry.
18:43 < sonatagreen> Most of them don't have that much detail thought out
18:43 < sonatagreen> I guess I could set up a wiki?
18:43 < kappabeta> I periodically think I'm going to try to write one of at least all extant descriptions and then can't because brain
18:43 < linkhyrule5> mostly - does it work like the original in that
18:43 < kappabeta> a QDS wiki would be amazing
18:43 < sonatagreen> maybe use the glowfic wiki
18:43 < linkhyrule5> if you cast it in an existing demiplane
18:43 < linkhyrule5> you can expand it?
18:43 < kappabeta> it might be a little too, like, noncentral for the glowfic wiki
18:43 < sonatagreen> Yes. Also, duration is always instantaneous.
18:44 < linkhyrule5> excellent.
18:44 < linkhyrule5> Next question.
18:44 < kappabeta> duration?
18:44 < linkhyrule5> ME creates your MP bar
18:44 < linkhyrule5> like literally, pulls your MP bar through the Dungeon fourth wall, gets a little vial of blue liquid
18:44 < linkhyrule5> He fiddles with the graduations so that you have 1000x MP
18:44 < linkhyrule5> what happens?
18:44 < sonatagreen> um, I'd have to know more about this
18:45 < linkhyrule5> Have youread Problem Slueth?
18:45 < sonatagreen> yes but not recently
18:45 < sonatagreen> bear in mind that if you're *in Dungeon* when this happens, the most likely result is a death by trickery
18:45 < linkhyrule5> right
18:45 < linkhyrule5> lool
18:45 < linkhyrule5> no, he's not
18:45 < kappabeta> death by trickery?
18:45 < sonatagreen> http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Trickery
18:45 < linkhyrule5> doyou remember
18:45 < linkhyrule5> and just goes after the actual health bars?
18:45 < linkhyrule5> and breaks them?
18:46 < linkhyrule5> It's that kind of thing.
18:46 < sonatagreen> sounds like the sort of thing Hussie would do
18:46 < linkhyrule5> He's going "So you know how you have MP bars and whatnot?
18:46 < linkhyrule5> I'm going to reach into concept space and grab the actual MP bar attached to that concept
18:46 < linkhyrule5> and then fiddle with it, propogating the changes to your MP resevoir"
18:46 < sonatagreen> I'd flavor it like making the container larger rather than redrawing the markings
18:47 < linkhyrule5> Something like that, yeah.
18:47 < linkhyrule5> Whatever makes most sense when he gets it
18:47 < linkhyrule5> In videogames it's usually redrawing the markings, the mana bar doesn't actually start stretchign off the screen or something
18:47 < linkhyrule5> (usually)
18:47 < linkhyrule5> (ignore Dark Souls fora minute) :P
18:47 < kappabeta> XD
18:48 < sonatagreen> in this game it'd be represented by writing numbers like "75/100"
18:48 < sonatagreen> so it's more abstract, and a physical vial would be a more distant metaphor
18:48 < kappabeta> on whom might ME attempt this experiment?
18:49 < sonatagreen> probably be more like Matilda immortaling vampires than like sealing shrens' magic reservoir to prevent contagion
18:49 < kappabeta> <3
18:49 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, something like that
18:51 < Teceler> I was going to say that Thorn would not be volunteering for this, but thinking about it if ME gets her to trust him she might be a good test subject, as she's revivable if it winds up killing her or driving her insane or something
18:52 < linkhyrule5> (And speaking of which, kappa, update that, Matilda being all ialdae at Elcenia is amazing :P )
18:52 < linkhyrule5> The ultiamte target is Lioncourt
18:52 < sonatagreen> also, Dungeon will try to fit visitors into its paradigm; failing that, it'll try to keep them out; failing that, it'll try (once) to kill them by direct fiat; failing that, it'll give up and let it happen.
18:52 < linkhyrule5> as part of a convoluted plot involving four different magic/hypertech systems in order to save Captain Viridan's worlds
18:52 < kappabeta> Mark would totally volunteer as a test subject
18:52 < sonatagreen> Its paradigm includes mental ability scores, so this counts as mental manipulation.
18:52 < linkhyrule5> (Hey, Kappa, will /that/ get Miles' attention? :P )
18:52 < Teceler> that does sound convoluted
18:52 < kappabeta> ...how poorly must you fit the paradigm before it'll try to boot you?
18:52 < kappabeta> Will what get Miles's attention?
18:53 < linkhyrule5> Organizing a giant planetary scale rescue/evacuation plot
18:53 < linkhyrule5> involving at least one true eldritch alien :P
18:53 < kappabeta> well, naturally, if any of it happens in public :P
18:53 < linkhyrule5> Significant quantities of it will!
18:53 < kappabeta> Miles is crashing hard after his kidnapping, though
18:53 < sonatagreen> If you're from outside the cluster, you probably don't fit.
18:53 < Adelene> More things need to happen in public, the forum has been boring today. ;P
18:53 < linkhyrule5> In fact, we may be borrowing a warmhole generator
18:53 < linkhyrule5> er
18:53 < linkhyrule5> wormhole traverser
18:54 < kappabeta> XDDDDDDDDD
18:54 < kappabeta> wait, like, from nexus?
18:54 < linkhyrule5> That, or ME will derive a pure tech teleporter and throw it to Miles to make
18:54 < linkhyrule5> *fabricate
18:54 < linkhyrule5> yeah
18:54 < linkhyrule5> The plan requries a teleporter that Lioncourt can access
18:54 < kappabeta> anyway my brain has been very not today, but Leaf might crawl back onto the forum tomorrow
18:55 < linkhyrule5> ME is basically doing what he does best in the absense of Ludicrous Raw Magic Power, which is finding things out and putting them together
18:55 < Teceler> Thorn is sufficently rattled at the moment to have trouble posting at all, let alone in public (I have not actually worked out her stress values, but they are likely ridiculous)
18:55 < kappabeta> I am extremely interested in this complicated plan and so would Leaf be if he wasn't busy hiding under a blanket
18:55 < linkhyrule5> Miles is probably the most mobile person he knows about
18:55 < kappabeta> hmm, define mobile?
18:55 < linkhyrule5> Oh? Did the Prometheans recognize that origin story, or is this just Cassandra?
18:55 < linkhyrule5> Worldhoppable
18:55 < linkhyrule5> Orz can do it, but their method is brainbreaking and might screw up magic
18:56 < kappabeta> origin story?
18:56 < linkhyrule5> ME can do it, if he wants to sacrifice a small comet to do it
18:56 < linkhyrule5> my creation myth
18:56 < linkhyrule5> Shenanigans are happening there too :P
18:56 < linkhyrule5> But Miles can do it basically for free, and send things basically for free
18:56 < Teceler> no, this is just everything piling up. Cassandra did not help, though, I should add that to the list
18:56 < linkhyrule5> so he'll be publishing this plan soon enough to try and solicit him
18:56 < kappabeta> I mean, Leaf's capacity to transit worlds is not *yet* public
18:57 < linkhyrule5> He invited Raezenoth, didn't he.... frak, no he didn't
18:57 < linkhyrule5> ot publicly
18:57 < linkhyrule5> Mm.
18:57 < linkhyrule5> I mean, I /can/ have ME just find that out, he's been meaning to scry things
18:57 < linkhyrule5> (assuming you don't mind, bby default it's something he can do trivially)
18:57 < kappabeta> XDDDDDD Contacting Leaf with information about him that he hasn't publicly released is gonna raise some stalker flags
18:57 < linkhyrule5> Well, he might just publish the plan and let Leaf contact him once it's clear he's looking for a very world-mobile person
18:57 < linkhyrule5> looool
18:57 < linkhyrule5> I'm kind of tempted to do it then just for that
18:58 < kappabeta> But like, one of the first things he's going to do when he crawls back online is going to be make a post about the shit Archangel's been getting up to
18:58 < linkhyrule5> Thougth seriously, he said he was logically omniscient, I'm surprised Illyan hasn't already gone "well he knows everything"
18:58 < kappabeta> and as part of that, he'll admit to having interworld transit capacity
18:58 < linkhyrule5> that'll do
18:58 < linkhyrule5> So yeah, who wants to hear this ludicrously complicated plan?
18:58 < linkhyrule5> Oooh, oooh!
18:59 < linkhyrule5> You know what would work perfectly?
18:59 < linkhyrule5> Pandora Gates!
18:59 < Teceler> ...oh, dear. I need more plans for keeping Firewall from shutting down their end of the forum because paranoia. Unless he explains why that wouldn't work
18:59 < linkhyrule5> hahah
18:59 < kappabeta> ???
18:59 < Teceler> I thought those only worked within worlds
18:59 < linkhyrule5> They do
18:59 < linkhyrule5> I think
18:59 < linkhyrule5> well it's up to you :P
18:59 < linkhyrule5> but the thing is, I need an intraworld teleporter for the plan
18:59 < linkhyrule5> it can be magic or tech but Lioncourt needs to get her hands on it
18:59 < Teceler> I mean, they could not be but I'm inclined to go with are--ah
19:00 < kappabeta> I'm so confused
19:00 < kappabeta> but highly intrigued
19:00 < linkhyrule5> Okay, so, here's the building blocks
19:00 < linkhyrule5> and see if you can figure out what I'm trying to do before I finish explaining :P
19:00 < kappabeta> i bet i can't, i am super cognitively deficient today
19:00 < Teceler> okay, the thing about Firewall was in response to your comment about Miles making a public post about Archangel shienagans. They are concerned about security. (They are Thorn's shadowy organization)
19:00 < kappabeta> but do go on
19:01 < linkhyrule5> 1) Captain Viridian's local Truth is not stable; it's collapsing into incoherent chaos. This is very unfortunate for any minds caught within it. Neither of the pups with cross-Truth capability have the ability to shore up the dimension enough to save the planet.
19:01 < kappabeta> Public post about Archangel shenanigans includes information that shutting down forum connection won't do shit to spell targeting on previously seen users
19:02 < Teceler> okay, that's good.
19:02 < linkhyrule5> 2) The Orz can move other thinigs and people between Truths the same way it moves itself. Unfortunately, this is extremely unpleasant to any minds involved, as they are broken down into heavily traumatized, conscious shards, forced into a bunch of conceptual leaps
19:02 < linkhyrule5> basically thrown through a memetic blender, and then reassembled at the end.
19:03 < Teceler> ..can they move, for example, backups between Truths safely?
19:03 < linkhyrule5> Good question! I don't know.
19:03 < linkhyrule5> Possible, but I'm not sure how friendly Viridian's planet will be to mass uploading
19:03 < linkhyrule5> and neither is ME
19:04 < linkhyrule5> (also this way is more fun :P )
19:04 < Teceler> I mean, I assume active infomorphs wouldn't, but. --yeah, sure, but that was Thorn's immediate question
19:04 < Teceler> and what's ME's issue with uploading? :P
19:04 < linkhyrule5> ME is fine with it
19:04 < linkhyrule5> ME is an extremely dramatic example of an infomorph, in fact
19:04 < linkhyrule5> his substrate is reality itself and he instatiates in bodies at will
19:05 < Teceler> that is impressive
19:05 < Teceler> I got an idea of something vaguely in that direction
19:05 < Teceler> was he objecting to mass uploading, or was I completely misreading that?
19:05 < linkhyrule5> he has like ten alpha forks at home that do things in parallel that are livesynced, and occasionally he's willing to sacrifice one to a dangerous-to-understand memetic attack so he can do really wonky things
19:05 < linkhyrule5> He's objecting to nonconsensual mass uploading
19:05 < Teceler> ...ah
19:05 < linkhyrule5> and some humans are kind of irrationally opposed to it :P
19:06 < Teceler> yeah, but some of that goes a way in the face of X-threats
19:06 < linkhyrule5> True, but it may not be necessary
19:06 < linkhyrule5> and again, the super convoluted plan is more fun :P
19:06 < Teceler> and it would be a way to at least save some of the population. But since he has a better idea...
19:06 < Teceler> yup, go on with the plan, sorry
19:07 < linkhyrule5> 3) Lioncourt's magic allows her to emulate any tool she has access to. If side effects are not logically entailed by the new method of "doing it by will", they are not carried over into the final Memnodyne. And she doesn't need to comprehend how the tool works to imitate it
19:07 < Teceler> ...wait, are you going to have Lioncourt try to make a new interworld transport mechanism?
19:07 < linkhyrule5> 4) Lioncourtt's magic requires you to visualize everything you do, which is why you can't normally apply TK on the scale of a planet.
19:08 < linkhyrule5> (getting there!)
19:08 < Teceler> do you have a way to speed up the time Lioncourt's magic takes to build?
19:08 < linkhyrule5> 5) ME can access mindscapes, and cause changes to mindscapes to reflect changes in the original mind. Since this is purely conceptual, it's cheap enough that he can (barely) do it between Truths
19:09 < linkhyrule5> Maybe! Even if I don't, we can skip over bits of that - CV's dimension is in danger but not imminent danger, I believe.
19:09 < linkhyrule5> But I bet I can come up with something
19:09 < linkhyrule5> 6) ME has control over how conceptual edits manifest.
19:09 < sonatagreen> so ME basically directly installs a new Memnodyne?
19:09 < linkhyrule5> If he has to.
19:09 < linkhyrule5> 7) Create demiplane can expand existing planes.
19:10 < linkhyrule5> 8) The obvious result of expanding your mindscape is expanding your active RAM - the amount you can visualize at once.
19:10 < Adelene> Ballsy.
19:10 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
19:10 < Teceler> ...oh, wow, that would have interesting effects
19:10 < linkhyrule5> 9) The /only/ thing preventing Lioncourt from affecting an entire planet is the amount she can visualize at once.
19:11 < linkhyrule5> 10) If Lioncourt is taught how to move between Truths, given a teleporter and taught to teleport between physical locations, combines the two to get instant translation across Truths, applies create demiplane to an ME-instantiated mindscape
19:11 < linkhyrule5> she can teleport the entirty of Viridian's planet to a stable Truth.
19:12 < kappabeta> nice.
19:12 < Teceler> Thorn: Are you /sure/ giving Lioncourt this much power is a good idea?
19:12 < Teceler> that is impressive, though, yeah
19:12 < kappabeta> But this thing with altering someone's MP to ludicrous values - is ME going to do it, and is ME going to be willing to do it on request XD
19:14 < Teceler> Based on the sense I've gotten of ME, it probably depends on how hard it is and the content of the request. :P
19:14 < linkhyrule5> MP boosting is solidly in the "affordable given sufficient reason" range
19:15 < kappabeta> Miles would be highly interested in having his MP increased to a ludicrous value.
19:15 < kappabeta> So would Mark.
19:15 < linkhyrule5> He'll do it if there's a good reason, like something valuable being in danger, but not on a whim
19:15 < linkhyrule5> Doesn't have to be a life, it's not /that/ expensive, but important enough
19:15 < linkhyrule5> Teceler: He has thought of that. He's going to brig it up IC with Lioncourt
19:16 < linkhyrule5> He might put a lock on it so that she needs to get the permission of someone we both trust, or else have her swear a binding oath not to use it to harm any person or thing or something similar loophole free
19:16 < Adelene> (Reminder that Lurker will eventually be able to set max MP to arbitrary values *and* give people magic that keeps their current MP at that level as well.)
19:16 < linkhyrule5> But mostly he and Lioncourt will hash it out IC
19:16 < linkhyrule5> Lurker's probably a better bet for it, then
19:16 < Adelene> *nod*
19:16 < kappabeta> heh
19:17 < linkhyrule5> The biggest thing preventing ME from kind of rolling over the setting is the mana cost for casting across Truths
19:17 < Adelene> She needs to jump through some hoops first but in the long run, definitely.
19:17 < kappabeta> If this possibility comes up before lurker gets tehre, though
19:17 < linkhyrule5> The less precedent I set for him doing that, the better
19:17 < kappabeta> how does "Miles wants it as a precaution against future kidnappings and to increase his capacity to help people, Mark wants to go first so that if it kills him Miles won't be dead" sound as a pitch XD
19:19 < linkhyrule5> Decent. He'll probably throw a scry in the direction of "is Miles seriously likely to use this to help people, am I going to get 1+ lives out of this on average", but given that the answer is "yes", pretty good
19:19 < kappabeta> hee
19:19 < linkhyrule5> Ideally he'll want to test it on someone who can be reloaded from backup though
19:19 < linkhyrule5> AKA Thorn :P
19:19 < linkhyrule5> (He can do his own reloads, but again - cross-Truth magic)
19:23 < Teceler> that reminds me, Thorn is getting gradually more willing to share the relevant tech, if anyone wants that. Though the thing with Cassandra might set her back some depending on how that plays out
19:24 < linkhyrule5> That'd be nice
19:24 < Teceler> ...doesn't ME already /have/ effective backup-reload tech? :P
19:24 < linkhyrule5> Yes, but he can't spread it around
19:24 < Teceler> ah
19:24 < linkhyrule5> His version is very, very magic
19:25 < linkhyrule5> and the versions everyone else uses are also magic, but magitech
19:25 < linkhyrule5> Either way, they won't export
19:25 < linkhyrule5> (On a side note? The reason Entelechy seems a bit retcon happy is that it's the onl yway to kill a high-level mage
19:26 < linkhyrule5> Just about any mage that gets past a certain points hits the reality-infomorph stage and becomes pretty much impossible to destroy without saying that they never existed in the first place)
19:26 < Teceler> couldn't you say that they never got quite the powerful, wouldn't that damage less history
19:26 < Teceler> *?
19:27 < linkhyrule5> Time is kind of wonky in Entelechy space
19:27 < linkhyrule5> That would /hurt/ them, definitely
19:27 < linkhyrule5> but they'd still exist as an infomorph that shouldn't exist, if that makes sense
19:28 < linkhyrule5> It'd seriously cripple them, but if they were powerful enough they coudl still cast spells
19:28 < linkhyrule5> and that means they could undo the retcon
19:28 < Teceler> (and if they don't have reality-infomorph-grade mages getting some form of regular therapy, that is silly and they should fix that :P)
19:28 < Teceler> ah
19:28 < linkhyrule5> It'd be equivalent to "sealing them away for a thousand years," basically
19:28 < Teceler> except with time-wonkiness
19:28 < linkhyrule5> Basically
19:28 < linkhyrule5> Some of them do! The ones with
19:28 < linkhyrule5> Some of them do! The ones with
19:28 < linkhyrule5> Some of them do! The ones with
19:28 < Teceler> um
19:28 < linkhyrule5> er, did you get three of that?
19:29 < Teceler> yes
19:29 < linkhyrule5> okay
19:29 < linkhyrule5> that's doing weird things on my screen
19:29 < linkhyrule5> er, do you get teh whole sentence?
19:29 < Teceler> huh
19:29 < linkhyrule5> Or does it end with "The ones with"
19:29 < Teceler> nope, cut off at with
19:29 < linkhyrule5> tch
19:29 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, its' doing that on my screen
19:29 < linkhyrule5> and then it goes on to the next and interprets "Some" as a command
19:29 < linkhyrule5> Some of them do! The ones with nations backing them up, or who learned their lesson from having to put down a few insane mages
19:29 < linkhyrule5> There we go
19:29 < Teceler> ...computers, how do you work
19:29 < Teceler> ah
19:29 < linkhyrule5> Or if not therapy, at least friends and a group
19:30 < linkhyrule5> Thanks to the ease of both time travel and teleportation, basically all the mages of that level know each other
19:30 < linkhyrule5> across history and have always learned to make sure people don't get too alone, because then you get She Who Lives in Her Name
19:30 < Teceler> Thorn likes the system of everyone having muses who can give them effective therapy, and things that people with security concerns should borrow that.
19:31 < Teceler> ...wait, that problem was originally a mage? You didn't mention that
19:31 < linkhyrule5> She could have been. I haven't decided yet.
19:31 < linkhyrule5> She's some brand of god or mage, they kind of overlap
19:31 < linkhyrule5> ME likes that idea too, actually
19:31 < linkhyrule5> if Thorn brings it up he'll bring it up at the next meeting
19:32 < Teceler> Thorn will probably bring it up if their mages going insane problem comes up
19:32 < linkhyrule5> might put them back into the Eigth Age! (because there'll be one fewer apocalypse, heh)
19:32 < Teceler> especially in the context of security issues
19:34 < kappabeta> heh, all this talk of moving between Truths has me wondering if someone should visit Esthfora sometime.
19:36 < linkhyrule5> Mm. It might be possible.
19:36 < Teceler> someone that would not drive insane should probably do that (if Esthfora would like)
19:36 < linkhyrule5> The spell I'm giving Lioncourt, as I'm imagining it, doesn't allow for arbitrary Truth transfer
19:36 < linkhyrule5> You don't get teh trauma from the /movement/
19:36 < linkhyrule5> but if you end up in a hostile Truth where up is purple or something, that cna still screw you up
19:37 < kappabeta> This is technically possible and not even technically dangerous, and she might turn out to be a feasible bridge between not-otherwise-mutually-reachable worlds if somebody turns out to want that someday, but not recommended for anyone who's uncomfortable with going somewhere that explicitly lacks laws of reality
19:37 < linkhyrule5> Orz might visit
19:37 < linkhyrule5> ME does that all the time :P
19:37 < kappabeta> haha
19:37 < kappabeta> does what all the time?
19:37 < linkhyrule5> ... in fact, if Esthfora really exists as a part of people's minds
19:37 < linkhyrule5> he might have been there already
19:37 < linkhyrule5> and not known it
19:37 < linkhyrule5> Going places that explicitly lack laws of reality
19:37 < kappabeta> hahaha
19:37 < Teceler> yeah, but Esthfora's truth-thingy freaks Thorn out.
19:37 < linkhyrule5> He goes into "hierarchy space" and shores up or destroys organizations
19:37 < kappabeta> what does hierarchy space run on?
19:38 < linkhyrule5> Truth :P
19:38 < kappabeta> hahaha
19:38 < kappabeta> that's a law of reality, sort of!
19:38 < Teceler> ...ha
19:38 < Hadassah> I'm out for the evening. The best of funs with your metagaming! So much schemery. Night and sleep well! Have a good day!
19:38 < linkhyrule5> haave fun!
19:38 < linkhyrule5> It's just... basically, the space of possible ways an organization can be
19:38 < kappabeta> byw hadassah!
19:38 < linkhyrule5> organized
19:38 < Teceler> sleep well
19:38 -!- Hadassah has quit
19:39 < linkhyrule5> So he shows up there and kind of plays with the organization, and that fates/metacauses thigns to happen in the real world
19:39 < kappabeta> What I mean when I say Esthfora-as-location explicitly lacks laws of reality is, like... okay so have you ever played Monument Valley
19:39 < linkhyrule5> Or he'll go into "the space of possible results of this experiment" and looks for the most likely one
19:39 < linkhyrule5> Not yet
19:39 < linkhyrule5> Ever since you've mentioned it it's been on my list
19:39 < linkhyrule5> but dang, that list is longer than my arm
19:39 < kappabeta> hee
19:39 < kappabeta> are you broadly familiar with the experience of it, though?
19:40 < Teceler> I am picturing it being something like the Iron Republic (Fallen London), but I have no idea how accurate that is
19:40 < Teceler> (well, minus the devils, obviously)
19:40 < kappabeta> hahaha
19:40 < kappabeta> not really
19:41 < Teceler> pity
19:41 < linkhyrule5> Nope
19:41 < linkhyrule5> I can go take ten minutes and watch a youtube?
19:41 < kappabeta> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC1jHHF_Wjo here's a trailer but i'm not sure it does the thing
19:42 < kappabeta> there's a trailer
19:42 < Teceler> 'an illusory adventure of impossible architecture and forgiveness'
19:42 < Teceler> yeah, that's going on my list too
19:43 < kappabeta> But basically like, the concept of Monument Valley is "you walk through an Escher-like impossible landscape, and you can rotate and otherwise alter some parts of the landscape in ways that follow a very particular set of rules that would be totally impossible in a real physical space"
19:43 < kappabeta> in Esthfora-as-location, you can walk around on Monument Valley sets.
19:44 < kappabeta> The fact that this is literally logically impossible won't stop you.
19:44 < linkhyrule5> Remind me of Miegakure
19:44 < linkhyrule5> except that's just 4D
19:44 < kappabeta> hmm?
19:44 < Teceler> ...yuup, Thorn is not going there, even without the magical truth godess, she has enough sanity issues from her own world, thanks
19:45 < kappabeta> hahaha
19:45 < kappabeta> It is TECHNICALLY perfectly safe.
19:45 < kappabeta> But likely to be deeply unsettling if you're not prepared for it.
19:46 < linkhyrule5> ME will totally vist
19:46 < linkhyrule5> or possibly have already visited if you think that'd be funny
19:46 < kappabeta> anyway, Esthfora-as-location presents as a physical space, but does so mostly out of the kindness of its heart, and any observable consistencies therein are provided for your convenience and not actually immutable constants.
19:46 < kappabeta> hee
19:47 < linkhyrule5> (the space of truth is totally a vlid scrying target!)
19:47 < kappabeta> I feel like if he'd already visited he would have... noticed
19:47 < linkhyrule5> Not necessarily. Esthfora-as-location may not be all that similar to Esthfora-as-person
19:47 < kappabeta> and I don't think "the space of truth" is the thing that it is XD
19:47 < linkhyrule5> Well, the piece of people's minds that concerns the understanding of truth
19:48 < kappabeta> hmm
19:48 < kappabeta> Esthfora calls herself "made of a part of what it is to be a mind", but it's a really hard-to-explain part whose boundaries don't strictly coincide with any combination of existing English words
19:48 < kappabeta> in previous incarnations her name was Intuition
19:49 < linkhyrule5> The ability to discern Truth on sight?
19:49 < Teceler> huh
19:49 < kappabeta> not exactly
19:50 < kappabeta> I feel like it would be difficult to hit on Esthfora while trying to access some specific, clearly envisioned thing
19:50 < kappabeta> unless you already knew her and you were trying to get to her deliberately
19:50 < kappabeta> hitting on Esthfora by _accident_ seems more plausible
19:51 < kappabeta> if that's a thing that happens
19:51 < sonatagreen> *back*
19:51 < kappabeta> but yeah, she doesn't embody any specific, neatly encapsulated ability or concept that has a definition outside of herself, I don't think
19:52 < Teceler> welcome back (you maybe need an 'away' flag)
19:52 < sonatagreen> Actually I'm not 100% sure that would work. You can normally only use /create demiplane/ to expand *your own* demiplane. Your mindscape might or might not count as sufficiently yours.
19:52 < kappabeta> haha
19:56 < linkhyrule5> Hm
19:56 < linkhyrule5> I wonder if Orz's Truthslip can handle magic books
19:56 < kappabeta> hm?
19:56 < linkhyrule5> it does basically disassemble things at a very basic platonic level
19:56 < linkhyrule5> and reassemble them
19:56 < linkhyrule5> If it can, it may not be impossible to instantiate a Leaf-truth custom version of creat demiplane and have Orz ship it
19:57 < kappabeta> XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
19:57 < kappabeta> expand on that?
19:57 < linkhyrule5> Also the way I have it, the mindscape is literally the inside of your mind
19:57 < linkhyrule5> Basically, research times are kind of arbitrary when you can a) move into orthogonal imaginary time and b) can just instantiate objects out of the space of possible spellbooks anyway
19:57 < linkhyrule5> Thing is, as per usual, that doesn't do anyone not in Entelechy any good.
19:57 < kappabeta> XD
19:58 < linkhyrule5> At some expense, you could make a version that would exist to a non-Entelechy person, but it's still in Entelechy
19:58 < linkhyrule5> and jsut for the sake of game balance I'm going to say that instantiating it directly i someone else's world is one of those "haha sacrifice an astronomical object" things
19:58 < linkhyrule5> (because otherwise, well, owl someone a hand grenade, and similar shenanigans)
19:59 < kappabeta> It's possible that Esthfora could be used as a delivery mechanism there, specifically because spellbooks are broadly informational in nature
19:59 < linkhyrule5> So the idea is, ME researches a verison fo create demiplane that /definitely/ works on mindscapes
19:59 < linkhyrule5> (I would argue that the mindscape is literally the inside of your mind and is kind of very very yours, there's a room in your mindscape that contains you looking into a room in your mindscape that contains...)
19:59 < linkhyrule5> (but it's sonata's call)
20:00 < linkhyrule5> and then Esthfora/Orz slips it to Leaf, who gates it to Lioncourt
20:00 < linkhyrule5> or learns it and scribes it, if he wants
20:00 < linkhyrule5> though it's kind of a niche use thing
20:00 < linkhyrule5> Though I suppose "more mental capacity" is kind of generally useful
20:01 < kappabeta> Leaf can wish for spellbooks
20:01 < sonatagreen> *finishes reading scrollback*
20:01 < kappabeta> Probably not ones that have never been out of the Entelechy
20:01 < sonatagreen> I did use the irc /away feature, though maybe not all clients show that
20:01 < kappabeta> My client didn't
20:01 < linkhyrule5> mine doesn't
20:01 < sonatagreen> (if you want to check, MotherStarlight is currently away)
20:01 < linkhyrule5> oh
20:01 < Teceler> you were greyedout for a while, that might be it
20:01 < linkhyrule5> I see MotherStarlight as away
20:01 < sonatagreen> yes, that's it
20:01 < linkhyrule5> but I didn't pay attention to that :P
20:01 < Teceler> I was thinking more like
20:01 -!- Teceler is now known as Teceler|away
20:02 < sonatagreen> that works too
20:02 -!- Teceler|away is now known as Teceler
20:02 < kappabeta> but anyway if you could get a spellbook to Esthfora, which may be easier than getting it to anywhere else because you don't have to adjust for the local function of reality, and if this turned out to be legit per Dungeon spellbook function, Esthfora could turn around and deliver the information content of the spellbook directly into a mind
20:02 < kappabeta> or someone could come to Esthfora and pick it up
20:03 < linkhyrule5> If Esthfora is really seriously "accomodates any Truth," ME can cast basically arbitrary effects on/in her
20:03 < linkhyrule5> which, uh, might be bad for drama
20:03 < kappabeta> I mean, what do you mean by basically arbitrary effects
20:03 < linkhyrule5> Entelechy magic can natively do anything that can be imagined, limited only by mana costs.
20:03 < Adelene> That sounds like a little more fire than we probably want to be on, yes.
20:03 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
20:03 < linkhyrule5> Yeah.
20:04 < Teceler> hee
20:04 < linkhyrule5> Entelechy exists as a really amusing, interesting setting that anyone sufficiently durable or suicidally curious can go visit
20:04 < sonatagreen> To what extent does a person create their own mindscape? To what extent are mindscapes added/granted/created by some external deity-like entity that cares about minds?
20:04 < linkhyrule5> but can never be allowed to seriously touch other Truths for risk of accidentally breaking them over its knee.
20:04 < linkhyrule5> sonatagreen: Not and not, respectively
20:04 < kappabeta> the flip side of "you don't have to adjust for the local function of reality" is "that's because there isn't one, which means that causing things to happen there gets much less straightforward very quickly as you depart from 'visit and engage in simple physical interaction'"
20:05 < linkhyrule5> It's... like, if you had a memory palace, that's what it woudl be
20:05 < linkhyrule5> They're Reality Marbles, if you watch Fate/Stay Night
20:05 < sonatagreen> I don't.
20:05 < linkhyrule5> Phoo.
20:05 < linkhyrule5> So a mage /can/ customize their mindscape pretty freely
20:05 < linkhyrule5> and if they set safeties on their spells they can do it safely too
20:05 < linkhyrule5> But by default, that's not the case
20:05 < linkhyrule5> It's... whatever's appropriate for you
20:06 < linkhyrule5> Okay, so, basically, Esthfora is Esthfora's mindscape.
20:06 < linkhyrule5> That sort of thing.
20:06 < kappabeta> Yes.
20:06 < sonatagreen> Is it at all reasonable to describe different mindscapes as different locations in a single plane/layer/aspect of reality? like the astral plane or something
20:06 < kappabeta> And Esthfora's *mind* is *suuuper weird*
20:06 < linkhyrule5> In Entelechy /everyone/ has one of those, but most people don't really use it
20:06 < kappabeta> doesn't necessarily experience linear time or straightforward causality, kind of weird
20:06 < linkhyrule5> It's "what you would be if you were a location"
20:06 < linkhyrule5> Most people have pretty boring like-reality mindscapes, because most people are boring :P
20:07 < linkhyrule5> Ooh, here's another example : Witch Barriers, from Madoka.
20:07 < linkhyrule5> Witch Barriers are the mindscapes of really depressed magical girls.
20:07 < sonatagreen> It seems like it's not really the kind of demiplane that Create Demiplane was designed to be compatible with, so I'm leaning towards no.
20:07 < linkhyrule5> Mm... Different locations... Iiiish? But only so far as different worlds are different locations
20:07 < linkhyrule5> Mmkay. Custom research shenanigans it is.
20:07 < sonatagreen> Designing a new spell for the purpose should definitely work.
20:07 < linkhyrule5> Can wish create arbitrary non-researched spellbooks, btw?
20:08 < sonatagreen> No, it's very roughly as limited as demon creation in terms of doing informational heavy lifting.
20:08 < kappabeta> I could see it being the case that you can visit Esthfora but can't use it as a waypoint between realities if there's shit going on like between the Entelechy and not-the-Entelechy
20:08 < linkhyrule5> mmkay
20:08 < linkhyrule5> Thing is, there'se a lot ME can do just by transferring information
20:08 < kappabeta> hmm?
20:08 < linkhyrule5> Magic effects will "not exist" in non-Entelechy worlds
20:09 < sonatagreen> Once anyone knows a spell, wish can create a spellbook of that spell, though.
20:09 < kappabeta> :D
20:09 < linkhyrule5> Hm.
20:09 < kappabeta> How many spells are there that aren't in QDS's catalogue, by the way? like, vague ballpark?
20:09 < linkhyrule5> I think we need to decide if wish can reach the Entelechy
20:09 < kappabeta> reach how?
20:09 < linkhyrule5> I'm leaning towards "yes, but it takes the whole wish" type thing
20:09 < linkhyrule5> like true resurrection does
20:10 < kappabeta> the whole...?
20:10 < linkhyrule5> you need two wishes, one to reach it and one to actually do the thing
20:10 < kappabeta> i don't think that's how wish
20:10 < linkhyrule5> True resurrection works that way in canon D&D
20:10 < linkhyrule5> ... I thnk
20:10 < linkhyrule5> double checking
20:10 < linkhyrule5> Right, so, not quite
20:11 < sonatagreen> Depends on how you count. A lot of their spells also exist in slightly different versions, and there are probably a moderate number of spells that are kept secret by their creators. For spells in common circulation, though, I think I listed all of them in the worldbuilding thread.
20:11 < linkhyrule5> "A wish can revive a dead creature whose body has been destroyed, but the task takes two wishes, one to recreate the body and another to infuse the body with life again. A wish cannot prevent a character who was brought back to life from losing an experience level."
20:11 < linkhyrule5> That sort of thig.
20:11 < linkhyrule5> You make one wish, "for the next wish to touch the Entelechy," and then the next can contest Entelechy magic and instantiate things and whatnot as normal
20:11 < kappabeta> hmm, as fascinating as this is, I'm starting to become marginally less exhausted and I want to go to bed before "marginally less exhausted" becomes "awake three hours past my bedtime" and the cycle repeats
20:11 < linkhyrule5> loool
20:11 < kappabeta> Dungeon spell "wish" doesn't that thing, I don't think?
20:11 < sonatagreen> haha
20:12 < linkhyrule5> I've been there
20:12 < linkhyrule5> so much
20:12 < Adelene> Sleep well, Kappa.
20:12 < linkhyrule5> >.>
20:12 < linkhyrule5> good luck.
20:12 < kappabeta> <3
20:12 < sonatagreen> yeah, Dungeon wish is much more limited.
20:12 < Teceler> sleep well
20:12 < linkhyrule5> Try melatonin + ambien
20:12 < sonatagreen> closer to nethack wish than d&d wish
20:12 < linkhyrule5> Ahh, okay.
20:12 < linkhyrule5> (Ah, nethack
20:12 < sonatagreen> basically 'create even magic item'
20:13 < linkhyrule5> +2 blessed greased silver dragon scale mail, +2 blessed Magicbane, and blessed wand of wishing (0:3) please!)
20:13 < linkhyrule5> er, wait, no, you can't wish for wands of wishing
20:13 -!- kappabeta has left #backstage
20:13 < linkhyrule5> I forget, what was the usual third wish?
20:13 < linkhyrule5> But yeah, anyway, in that case wish can't really grab things that are researched in the ENtelechy by default, because they don't exist
20:14 < linkhyrule5> If Esthfora grabs them it can, though
20:14 < linkhyrule5> ...mm, that doesn't actually add much difficulty
20:14 < linkhyrule5> I might jus let it go through then
20:14 < linkhyrule5> How "on fire" is "instant custom spells for everyone"?
20:15 < sonatagreen> combined with unlimited mp? extremely
20:15 < Teceler> if you combo that with ridicolous mp... yeah
20:15 < sonatagreen> there's no *theoretical* limit to what Dungeon magic can do with enough mp
20:16 < linkhyrule5> Unlimited MP is not something ME can throw around
20:16 < linkhyrule5> but it is apparently something Lurker can, so.
20:16 < sonatagreen> I guess it's kind of like Entelechy that way, except that it's a lot harder to get astronomical amounts of mana
20:16 < Teceler> arbitarily high mp
20:16 < Adelene> Lurker is going to be nonzero amounts of paranoid, she's not going to be handing out 10,000mp to everyone with an account, but yeah, large amounts of fire.
20:16 < Teceler> seems like something he could do?
20:16 < linkhyrule5> Ditto. Not something he can throw around.
20:17 < linkhyrule5> Scrying on other truths: manageable. Sacrifice a chair or something. A lot of mana by newbie mage standards, but pretty par for the course for him.
20:17 < linkhyrule5> Interfering with other truths in ephemeral/conceptual ways: Expensive. Not something he can do on a whim. Sacrifice a mountain, he has a few of those. Only if it's important.
20:17 < linkhyrule5> Interfering with other truths in physical ways: HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAno
20:18 < linkhyrule5> Interfering with other truths in ways that produce massive changes in destiny: Somewhere in between the last two. He can get around this by empowering people who aren't from the world he wants to affect
20:18 < linkhyrule5> then they take the mana cost, except that their magic system doesn't care
20:18 < Adelene> Lurker's about a month out from having both Dungeon and Carp magic; once she does the only thing stopping her from developing a technique to adjust peoples' max MP is that Carp magic doesn't play well with human experimentation.
20:18 < linkhyrule5> Uh.
20:18 < Adelene> And Leaf has at least two friends who can get around that problem.
20:19 < linkhyrule5> This would be the time to point out that precog is a pretty popular power around here.
20:19 < linkhyrule5> >.>
20:19 < linkhyrule5> yeahhhh
20:19 < Adelene> I'm not sure precog would help much?
20:19 < linkhyrule5> Truth Engine style precog might.
20:20 < linkhyrule5> ME style definitely will, it's comparable to path to victory sometimes
20:20 < linkhyrule5> (not always, Entelechy magic isn't /that/ broken, but only because of issues defining "victory")
20:20 < Teceler> ...oh /dear/
20:20 < linkhyrule5> Precog does not work on other Truths.
20:20 < linkhyrule5> I did think this throug :P.
20:20 < Teceler> yeah, I know, but that's my reflexive reaction to that :P
20:20 < linkhyrule5> Entelechy is allowed to have all sorts of weird stuff, but there are always reasons why it doesn't work on other Truths
20:20 < linkhyrule5> because it has to add up to normality
20:21 < linkhyrule5> AKA: "Nice world you've got there. Why don't the dragons rule it already?"
20:21 < linkhyrule5> Basically, Entelechy magic can make outcome pumps: pick a thing, that thing happens.
20:21 < linkhyrule5> Thing is, it's generally expensive enough you have to be pretty object-level about what thing it is
20:21 < linkhyrule5> You can go conceptual a little, but you still have to tell it what you mean by victory
20:22 < Teceler> I feel like there's probably a 'unless contested by another sufficently powerful effect' in there?
20:22 < linkhyrule5> and if yo uask for something too ridiculous, it might turn out that the only way to get you what you want is to do something very unfortunate.
20:22 < linkhyrule5> Well yes.
20:22 < linkhyrule5> Though in that case the spell tends to just not go off
20:22 < Teceler> based on what you've said earlier.
20:22 < Teceler> yeah
20:22 < linkhyrule5> you get distracted or something
20:22 < linkhyrule5> after a few times "forgetting" to cast the spell a smart mage gets the picture.
20:22 < Teceler> ...how often does the explosion result happen, is that a thing mages actually have to worry about?
20:22 < linkhyrule5> A dumb mage keeps trying and eventually blows themselves up, and that is how the Third, Fifth Apocalypses happend.
20:23 < linkhyrule5> Also nations do this on a regular basis.
20:23 < linkhyrule5> Nations tend to be shortlived for this reason.
20:23 < linkhyrule5> Explosion results happen if you're determined.
20:23 < linkhyrule5> Basically, shonen manga mages don't live long.
20:23 < Teceler> and apparently have collateral damage problems
20:23 < linkhyrule5> Sometimes.
20:24 < linkhyrule5> More often, the mage in question is part of a really stubborn organization
20:24 < Adelene> I should perhaps also mention for fire reasons that Lurker will also be able to *reduce* peoples' MP.
20:24 < linkhyrule5> that moves too slowly
20:24 < linkhyrule5> (oh geez, that's hilarious)
20:24 < Teceler> well, I assume there's some deterrent of 'if you keep trying this you will explode' on the trying to much
20:24 < Teceler> ...ha
20:24 < linkhyrule5> and the organization as a whole has to explode to get the experiments to stop
20:24 < Teceler> ah
20:24 < linkhyrule5> It's definitely a thig mages worry about: it's why mages don't just sacrifice more and more things to try and overwhelm each others wards
20:24 < linkhyrule5> Doing a contest of raw power gets everyone killed and helps nobody
20:24 < linkhyrule5> you have to be clever and get around people's wards
20:25 < linkhyrule5> Even a primordial dragon will think twice before challenging a human mages wards directly
20:25 < linkhyrule5> though they usually have the intelligence or informational effects to just trivially bypass them
20:25 < Teceler> yeah, but it you don't have to worry about hitting an opposing effect and exploding just randomly, you tend to get warning?
20:27 < linkhyrule5> Sort of.
20:27 < linkhyrule5> The warnings can be subtle
20:27 < linkhyrule5> Old mages start putting probability alarms up that activate whenever something really unlikely happens
20:27 < linkhyrule5> they tend to mean that the universe is getting annoyed at you
20:27 < linkhyrule5> or that someone hit you with a fate curse that can happen to
20:27 * Teceler giggles.
20:27 < linkhyrule5> sonatagreen - so on a side note, we need a good reason for ME to not be able to provide people with arbitrary spells
20:28 < linkhyrule5> I'm glad you like my universe!
20:28 < linkhyrule5> I spent time on it, it'd be sad if nobody liked it :P
20:28 < Teceler> well-built universes are interesting!
20:29 < linkhyrule5> Thank you!
20:29 < linkhyrule5> I went way out of my way to make this universe derivable from base principles
20:29 < linkhyrule5> I doubt someone else would get exactly the same universe, but I do want the general impression of "oh, yeah, this has to happen because that is true"
20:31 < sonatagreen> linkhyrule5: Dungeon spells specifically, or any spells?
20:31 < linkhyrule5> Both, but Entelechy spells are pretty covered.
20:32 < linkhyrule5> If he can research abritary Dungeon spells (and he can, because time works the way he wants it to), and he can get those spells to arbitrary people (and by default he can, between Esthfora and wish), and people have arbitrary MP to cast it...
20:32 < sonatagreen> I'd say Dungeon spells are pretty closely tied to Dungeon's Truth, and the only reason they work in other worlds is that those worlds are "willing"/able to be flexible enough to let Dungeon impose its rules in limited ways.
20:32 < sonatagreen> So if ME wants to contravene the rules on how spell research works, he's working against a foreign Truth
20:32 < linkhyrule5> The thing is, he's not quite doing that
20:32 < sonatagreen> oh, messing with time, hm
20:33 < linkhyrule5> He's just saying "So time passes about 1000x faster in this room"
20:33 < linkhyrule5> "Here's an alpha fork"
20:33 < linkhyrule5> "Hello alpha fork, thank you for the spell."
20:33 < linkhyrule5> Mm.
20:33 < sonatagreen> Maybe the Entelechy isn't flexible enough for Dungeon magic to work at all there?
20:33 < linkhyrule5> Think about it, I will too - need to brb tho, my mom wants me to mulch the garden >.>
20:34 < linkhyrule5> Maybe, but by default the ENtelechy is super super flexible - anything imaginable, and all
20:34 < linkhyrule5> if anything the problem would be that it's too flexible, it won't like Dungeon magic imposing its rules and sasying what it can't do
20:34 < sonatagreen> I was thinking of it as extremely rigid on a fundamental level but able to accomplish lots of stuff within those rules
20:34 < sonatagreen> mmm
20:36 < sonatagreen> offtopic, but listening to My Shiny Teeth and Me
20:36 < sonatagreen> why is something this stupid allowed to be this good
20:38 < sonatagreen> too alien/perpendicular? like Dungeon magic can't "find" the Entelechy, sort of
20:39 < sonatagreen> I mean, by my understanding, if the Entelechy can flex to accommodate Dungeon magic, that kind of implies that some Entelechy mage could have created something equivalent to Dungeon magic from scratch
20:40 < sonatagreen> and it seems like if it were possible to do something as insanely overpowered as Dungeon-in-Entelechy would be, then someone would have done it
20:40 < sonatagreen> and then Entelechy wouldn't add up to normality
20:44 < Adelene> Regarding Lurker and amounts of fire - the MP-setting effect is a Carp magic thing, and while I do want her to be able to use it on arbitrary worlds, I don't think other-worlders should be able to use it, at *least* without jumping through some hoops and possibly at all.
20:45 < Adelene> Plus they'd have to work out how, and Carp magic kills mages who annoy it, especially if they don't know what kinds of precautions to take.
20:45 < Adelene> On top of that, I don't think she can give people MP from scratch, I think they need to already have read a spellbook.
20:45 < sonatagreen> Theme 4: Command
20:46 < linkhyrule5> hm.
20:46 < sonatagreen> a more readable console-style theme
20:46 < linkhyrule5> Well, it's very rigid
20:46 < linkhyrule5> but it's "Turing complete"
20:46 < linkhyrule5> you can write just about anything within its system
20:47 < linkhyrule5> An Entelechy mage could have created Dungeon magic, but the result woudl still cost mana - making MP a real thing would be prohibitively expensive for anyone except primordial dragons with access to galaxies
20:47 < sonatagreen> so the question is: Entelechy can support the things that Dungeon magic can do, but can it support doing it as *cheaply* as Dungeon magic?
20:47 < sonatagreen> right
20:47 < linkhyrule5> pretty much, yeah
20:47 < sonatagreen> so basically it's theoretically possible but prohibitively expensive to import Dungeon magic to Entelechy?
20:47 < linkhyrule5> I'm thinking that Entelechy can research spells, but Dungeon magic just won't accept it
20:48 < linkhyrule5> it goes "this wasn't made by my rules/Entelechy refuses to enforce my restrictions" and the spell doesn't take
20:48 < linkhyrule5> And yeah, pretty much.
20:48 < sonatagreen> not sure how relevant this is, but I'm thinking that under Dungeon rules, the information itself is magic
20:48 < sonatagreen> which is why spellbooks resist copying
20:48 < linkhyrule5> that's basically Entelechy's only restriction, so I use it everywhere
20:50 < sonatagreen> so you could theoretically import a complete textual description of the relevant information to Dungeon, but it wouldn't have the magical status
20:50 < sonatagreen> like a text file containing the transcripted bytecode of an executable, it technically has the same information but isn't usable
20:51 < sonatagreen> *transcribed
20:51 < sonatagreen> or maybe more analogous to source code
20:51 < sonatagreen> anyway.
20:51 < sonatagreen> yeah, sounds like a working plan.
20:53 < linkhyrule5> so now I just need to finish hashing out the details of teleporting ap lanet :P
20:57 < Teceler> what you need is an information handling expander, right?
20:57 < linkhyrule5> Oh, right, I can't use create demiplane anymore, can I
20:57 < linkhyrule5> not without having Miles research it or something
20:58 < linkhyrule5> ME can do it but expensive yada yada
20:58 < linkhyrule5> so yeah
20:58 < linkhyrule5> yeah, I need some way to get a Lioncourt a whoooole lot of extra RAM
20:58 < linkhyrule5> enough to hold a planet it in
20:58 < Teceler> Eclipse's tech could handle some of that, but probably not enough. Hm.
21:00 < Teceler> (besides, I don't know how her power would interact with uploading, and that's their best thing for more computing power)
21:00 < Teceler> (or sometimes extremely heavily modified physical morphs, but that's the same problem)
21:01 < linkhyrule5> A Promethean uploader might do it, if we mix our plots
21:01 < linkhyrule5> A "tool that uploads the target to memory"
21:01 < sonatagreen> a narrow-application spell *just* for expanding a mindscape would probably be a lot cheaper than create demiplane
21:01 < linkhyrule5> and then "teleport the memory"
21:01 < linkhyrule5> ^ or that
21:01 < sonatagreen> although still relatively high level
21:01 < linkhyrule5> I mean we're still on the scale of months anyway 'cause we need time for Lioncourt to learn her Memnodyne
21:02 < Teceler> a seed AI would probably have enough working memory, but not the relevant ability
21:02 < Teceler> so get someone to research it? Will CV's world hold up that long?
21:02 < linkhyrule5> Dunno.
21:02 < sonatagreen> if you only need to expand a little bit (like 50%) then that'd probably be around 55mp
21:02 < linkhyrule5> Hm.
21:02 < Teceler> for that matter, is it just the one planet there?
21:02 < linkhyrule5> hahahano
21:02 < linkhyrule5> (to sonatagreen)
21:03 < sonatagreen> if you want to expand a lot, like room sized to planet sized, that's... a lot more
21:03 < linkhyrule5> You can imagine your mindscape to be infinite if you want, but in symbolic form the size of a mindscape correlates directly to how much you can imagein at once
21:03 < linkhyrule5> your mindscape is probably, yeah, a bout thesize of a room
21:03 < linkhyrule5> well, no
21:03 < linkhyrule5> you'll have dense lilbraries and a whole palace
21:03 < Teceler> I think she meant the handling capacity
21:03 < linkhyrule5> but there'll be a mostly-empty room somewhere in it that is your "working memory", the "eeye of your mind"
21:04 < sonatagreen> right
21:04 < linkhyrule5> and that'll be room-sized
21:04 < linkhyrule5> and that needs to be planet sized
21:04 < sonatagreen> Dungeon magic is probably not all that efficient at this
21:04 < sonatagreen> since expanding your mindscape or working memory is likely to increase max mp
21:04 < sonatagreen> and it considers that an obvious game balance issue
21:05 < sonatagreen> so it'll be pretty expensive
21:05 < linkhyrule5> heh
21:05 < linkhyrule5> Hm.
21:06 < Teceler> even if it did it in a way that didn't technically increase Dungeon mp?
21:06 < linkhyrule5> Okay, assume that somehow we get Lioncourt direct access to a planet sized databank
21:06 < linkhyrule5> an interworld data link
21:06 < sonatagreen> I'm not sure how that would work, since they're both tied to mental capacity
21:06 < linkhyrule5> ^ ME could draw the distinction, and that /wouldn't/ be hilariously expensive
21:07 < linkhyrule5> it'd be a kind of weird thing like "moving an object without moving its image"
21:07 < linkhyrule5> but that's definitely a thing that can be done, cutting causal links
21:07 < sonatagreen> *somewhat* less expensive, though it still feels like boosting an ability score
21:07 < linkhyrule5> At lest it's not exponential now?
21:07 < linkhyrule5> it's not the same ability score you use to cast spells?
21:08 < sonatagreen> kind of like that, yeah
21:08 < sonatagreen> but likely somewhere in the 200-400 mp range, for a planet sized boost
21:08 < Adelene> Lurker's thing is not MP specific, if the specific thing you want can be reasonably enough considered to be all one thing she can learn to boost it.
21:09 < Teceler> is 'working memory' enough of a specific thing for her?
21:09 < Adelene> Dunno.
21:09 < Teceler> and how would making a spell that did, say, a quarter of that, and casting it for times work, would it stack?
21:10 < linkhyrule5> if it works as traditional for D&D, it'll add, not multiply
21:10 < Adelene> I'm ruling that 'intelligence' isn't except for people who come from places that have a system that explicitly call it so, but well-defined subsets might be.
21:10 < sonatagreen> It would depend on how the spell was designed. Might stack additively, might only stack up to some cap.
21:10 < sonatagreen> (like how d&d:wishing for improved ability scores only works up to +5)
21:12 < Teceler> that makes sense
21:12 < Adelene> Hm
21:13 < Adelene> The thing that Dungeon does, where it rifles through someone's past and figures out how many max MP they should have - like it did with Leaf - if it could be convinced to rifle through someone's mind and give them an Int stat, Lurker could then manipulate the value of it.
21:13 < Teceler> The nice thing about Lurker doing it, in Thorn's opinion, is that she could put it back later if necessary. :P
21:13 < Teceler> hm
21:13 < Adelene> And a Dungeon spell to boost Int would probably do that thing.
21:15 < Teceler> I am inclined to say if you dropped people in Eclipse they might acquire EP character sheets if there's nothing stopping that, which have relevant stats -- the one you want is probably Cognition
21:15 < linkhyrule5> That would ... generally increase intelligence-related things
21:15 < linkhyrule5> which would eb cool and all, but be super hard to roleplay
21:15 < Teceler> *you'd
21:16 < Adelene> *nod*
21:16 < linkhyrule5> I've got ME loaded down with filters and distractions to explain the mistakes he makes
21:16 < linkhyrule5> or else he'd be unmanageable
21:17 < Adelene> I'd be inclined to say that leaving someone running around with 10,000 int or cognition or whatever would be inclined to break them pretty quick, and that Lurker would realize this and not do that.
21:17 < linkhyrule5> Maybe, yeah
21:17 < Teceler> yeah
21:18 < linkhyrule5> if we say that 10,000 Int isn't a natural intelligence boost, but some weird thing where your mind is working much faster and bigger than your wisdam can manage
21:18 < Teceler> I mean, EP has effective attribute caps, but the highest is a 40, and, well.
21:18 < Adelene> Especially as she'll've been on the 'knocked out for a couple hours' end of some rather less gratuitous mind magic already.
21:18 < linkhyrule5> and ther esult will break the human mind
21:18 < linkhyrule5> eheheh
21:18 < linkhyrule5> ME: Oops...
21:18 < linkhyrule5> :P
21:18 < linkhyrule5> Teceler: Where are the Prometheans? That's all we really need, so
21:18 < linkhyrule5> I'mg uessing they're around 100 or something
21:18 < linkhyrule5> or 10,000
21:18 < linkhyrule5> or just "enough"
21:19 < Teceler> I don't think there are actual stats for them
21:19 < Adelene> By 10,000 I mean 'large values of enough', yeah.
21:19 < Teceler> but seed AIs that have taken advantage of being such are explicitly incapable of downloading into regular morphs
21:20 < Teceler> because they are way too big
21:20 < Adelene> She's not going to balk at someone risking their lives to save people but she's definitely going to understand this as being that thing and take it seriously.
21:21 < linkhyrule5> Right
21:21 < linkhyrule5> Of course there's also "talking Lioncourt into this" which may or may not be difficult depending
21:22 < linkhyrule5> but backstage plan if it's even possible first, and then the characters can run into problems and impossibilities in a controlled manner
21:22 < linkhyrule5> with only amusing amounts of fire, instead of gratuitously excessive amounts
21:22 < linkhyrule5> :P
21:22 < Teceler> "As extremely potent intelligences, they should also be treated as distinctly non-human. Even though their original templates were based on human mindsets, they have evolved and grown in ways that can only be described as posthuman. ... Gamemasters are encouraged to keep Promethean involvement with player characters to a minimum..."
21:23 < linkhyrule5> ....
21:23 < linkhyrule5> about that....
21:24 < linkhyrule5> oh well
21:24 < Teceler> yeah, yeah, I know
21:24 < linkhyrule5> they won't be the first incomprehensible alien thing on the board
21:24 < linkhyrule5> geez, how many do we /have/ now
21:24 < Teceler> Lioncourt's player could probably say more about whether talking Lioncourt into this is possible
21:24 < Teceler> lots
21:24 < linkhyrule5> Esthfora, Orz, Argus, the various people
21:24 < linkhyrule5> from world 34
21:24 < linkhyrule5> ME is not very incomprehensible in mindset but he's definitely alien in "body"
21:25 < linkhyrule5> resident334
21:26 < Teceler> I have a newly created ridiculously powerful intelligence that is trying to work out morality that I'm considering throwing at the forum if I ever get bored. :P
21:26 < linkhyrule5> looooool
21:26 < linkhyrule5> I mean, game theory covers most of it
21:26 < Teceler> I don't get the impression resident334 is that alien. Their colors seem to be.
21:26 < linkhyrule5> read some of the Sequences sometime
21:26 < linkhyrule5> true
21:26 < linkhyrule5> and their syntax
21:27 < Teceler> well, yes, but then you'd need to count Lantern too
21:28 < Teceler> and probably some others. Possibly Lurking, but theirs is more... something else
21:28 < Adelene> Lurking's from a weird context, she's not really all that alien.
21:28 < Teceler> yeah
21:28 < Teceler> I was thinking more 'not very good at langauge'
21:29 < Adelene> *nod*
21:29 < linkhyrule5> I was thinking about coutning Lantern
21:29 < linkhyrule5> so Teceler
21:29 < linkhyrule5> question
21:30 < linkhyrule5> *does* EP have, somewhere, a RAM system big enough to hold a planet
21:30 < linkhyrule5> ?
21:30 < linkhyrule5> and download that data quickly?
21:30 < Teceler> I mean
21:30 < Teceler> have, or 'make quickly' I assume
21:30 < Teceler> at an atomic level?
21:31 < Teceler> hm
21:31 < Teceler> I mean, I"m pretty sure they have a Jupiter-brain-or-more through on one of the exoplanets they've found, but that may be being used by Someone Else
21:31 < linkhyrule5> I don't know the detail level, I'll need to ask
21:32 < sonatagreen> sufficiently superintelligent beings are not actually possible to roleplay
21:32 < linkhyrule5> I mean, there's no way Lion knows the detail of somerandom rock she's TKing down to atomic level
21:32 < sonatagreen> unless maybe they have multiple people behind them
21:32 < linkhyrule5> I suspect that as long as it's big enough to map the surface down to normal human resolution
21:32 < sonatagreen> or sherlock holmes style blatant authorial cheating
21:32 < linkhyrule5> and maybe map the whole volume
21:32 < linkhyrule5> that'd be enough
21:33 < linkhyrule5> the problem wouldn't be the quantity so much as transfer rate
21:33 < sonatagreen> so I'd rather stick to 'if superintelligences interact with the forum, they only give it about a human intelligence worth of attention'
21:33 < sonatagreen> which makes int boosting problematic
21:33 < sonatagreen> i mean, unless there's an actual plan to deal with the problems somehow
21:34 < Adelene> > (5/24/2015 9:33:11 PM) sonatagreen: so I'd rather stick to 'if superintelligences interact with the forum, they only give it about a human intelligence worth of attention'
21:34 < Teceler> (I mean, ANNI's mostly ridicolous amount of computing and literal power. And the computing runs into a language issues which isn't built in and she has tons of other things to pay attention to, yeah. She's newly created in universe, but one of the personalities she's drawing from was perpetually very uncertain about morality and kind of magnified that quality sort-of-on-purpose and the other she has a little of is extremely
21:34 < Teceler> alien)
21:34 < linkhyrule5> If we use int boosting, the boosts will go away fast
21:34 < Teceler> yeah
21:34 < Adelene> speaking as someone with highly variable functional intelligence, that doesn't actually work the way you're looking for.
21:35 < Teceler> the int boosting, or...?
21:35 < sonatagreen> the attention limit?
21:35 < linkhyrule5> of course not
21:35 < Adelene> The attention limit.
21:35 < linkhyrule5> but neitehr does int boosting, magic, or conceptual decomposition
21:35 < Adelene> true
21:35 < linkhyrule5> (I really doubt that every possible concept is /really/ write-able unambiguously in terms of sixteen elements. Mindspace has a bigger Kolmogorov complexity than that)
21:35 < sonatagreen> does that mean that "they're not giving the forum their full attention" is not a workable excuse for why an allegedly superintelligent character is behaving like their player is a human?
21:36 < linkhyrule5> (But it works in Entelechy anyway)
21:36 < linkhyrule5> I thnk it's a workable excuse. It's not an accurate one, but SoD is a thing
21:36 < Adelene> I mean, I won't grouse if you want to do it, but it's obviously a handwave rather than a real thing.
21:36 < sonatagreen> SoD?
21:36 < Teceler> Suspension of Disbelief
21:36 < sonatagreen> ah
21:36 < Adelene> yeah
21:38 < Adelene> (So long as smart!me and dumb!me share memory, dumb!me has a distinct advantage over someone who only has a dumb!them.)
21:38 < Adelene> (Because smart!me can leave dumb!me presents.)
21:38 < Teceler> that makes sense
21:38 < Teceler> but I don't think that's taking into a account the kind of parallelism you tend to get with superintelligences
21:39 < Teceler> I could be wrong, though
21:39 < Adelene> I'd expect any superintelligence worth the name to have a system for kicking problems up the heirarchy.
21:39 < sonatagreen> I mean, if we're assuming that smart!me is *busy elsewhere* then that implies that they *could* give presents but in practice won't?
21:40 < sonatagreen> that's a good point though
21:40 < sonatagreen> otoh most problems likely wouldn't be high priority enough to justify kicking up?
21:40 < Adelene> Smart!me would hardly be worth calling that if it didn't make a point of thinking things through ahead of time and leaving the obvious sorts of presents, too.
21:40 < Teceler> yeah, but it has to be more important than whatever else they're working on for that to take effect
21:41 < Adelene> Surprises are still tough, but there's a bonus for most things that are reasonably predictable and some that aren't.
21:41 < sonatagreen> yeah, basically the argument is that even a superintelligence has bounded cognition and opportunity costs
21:41 < sonatagreen> and this forum is not the most on fire thing in its life
21:41 < Adelene> Right.
21:42 < sonatagreen> like, yes, the company has a lot more money than your department's budget, but that doesn't mean you can afford whatever you want
21:42 < sonatagreen> dumb!me *is* the present.
21:43 < Adelene> I'm not sure I'm explaining this well enough.
21:43 < Teceler> I mean, if the forum managed to get more on fire that whatever else plausible was, obviously you'd hit SoD problems, but
21:43 < sonatagreen> sure
21:43 < Teceler> at that point you probably have bigger problems
21:44 < Teceler> Adelene, I do feel sort of like I'm missing something.
21:45 < Adelene> *pokes at words*
21:45 < Teceler> But the way I see it it's not a matter of the intelligence pulling all their processing power together on one thing and being smarter once in a while, even if that's possible, because that would mean not having it on the other things.
21:47 < Adelene> The difference between smart!me and dumb!me is big enough that I don't usually need smart!me to actually sit down and put effort into it to figure out things that stump dumb!me - a moment's passing thought is often enough.
21:47 < Teceler> ah
21:47 < Teceler> hm
21:47 < Adelene> And for a superintelligence I'd expect that difference to be even larger.
21:49 < Adelene> And, like - if a subset of a superintelligence is so cut off from the rest that that doesn't happen even occasionally, I'm not sure it'd meaninfully be called part of the superintelligence at all.
21:51 < Teceler> What I'm picturing is more the superintelligence being composed of lots of processes at about the same level that are focused on different things. One of them is probably data collation and reference, and there's synergy, but
21:52 < sonatagreen> cut off at 'synergy, but'
21:52 < Teceler> but there isn't a central hub that has considerably more power than the rest, which is what I feel like you're picturing?
21:53 < sonatagreen> yeah, I see what you're saying now Ade, might just need to metacausally avoid having superintelligences
21:54 < Adelene> *nod*
21:54 < Adelene> I don't strongly mind the handwave, just - we're already breaking stuff, handwaves are fragile.
21:55 < sonatagreen> (Do you object to being called that? I vaguely recall someone-might-have-been-you opinionated about names. Is there a different non-highlighting thing I should call you? Should I just highlight you a lot?)
21:55 < Teceler> and, yeah, the only reason I would consider having ANNI is that she's /supposed/ to kind of come across as a kid with a ridiculous amount of power.
21:55 < Adelene> Ade is fine.
21:56 < sonatagreen> Ideally I'd prefer to have the high-power characters fade into the background and become more like ground rules than PCs
21:56 < sonatagreen> but obviously I'm not the only person writing in this continuity, so
21:58 < Teceler> hm
21:58 < Teceler> I'm not quite sure exactly how you're defining 'high-power' here
21:59 < sonatagreen> I'm not sure I can correctly formalize my intuition
21:59 < Teceler> which makes it hard for me to form and opinon on that
21:59 < Teceler> *an
22:00 < Teceler> can you give a rough graduation? Like, x is high power, y is not?
22:00 < sonatagreen> but, broadly speaking, higher power involves affecting more people and/or being harder to block/overcome
22:00 < Teceler> that makes sense
22:01 < linkhyrule5> I'm kind of using ME to explore Entelechy right now
22:01 < linkhyrule5> If I get a really good sense of what the setting as a whole is like, I might let him move on and bring in a lower-powered mage
22:01 < linkhyrule5> but for now he's sticking around
22:01 < linkhyrule5> ON a side note, I feel like Procedure 110-Montauk is definitely on the "needs to be fixed" list
22:01 < linkhyrule5> currently brainstorming ideas for that one
22:02 < Teceler> I feel like most of the people with high-powered characters have tried to be polite about it oocly
22:02 < Teceler> And put in limitations
22:02 < Adelene> *returns from afk* Lurker's endgame has her fading out, she'll be aroundish but spending most of her time distributing tech goodie bags to various universes. She might be annoyingly OP for a while before that though, depending.
22:04 < linkhyrule5> I feel like I've been p[retty thorough about not letting ME run roughshod over the setting, yeah
22:05 < Teceler> I feel like how annoying she'd be would depend on... mm. The closest I'm getting is 'whether writers would feel restricted to having worlds that have received such or would not be significantly changed thereby, or flat-out can't'. Which is a really delicate balance
22:05 < sonatagreen> high <-- keeper, Esthfora, she-who-lives-in-her-name, Jupiter brain, Mother Starlight, ME, the Foundation, Leaf currently, daeva, Dotted Lines if he uses his power intelligently, a generic mid-level Dungeon caster, Leaf initially, Andrew, QDS in practice, Dotted Lines in practice, a generic baseline human, Lurker --> low
22:06 < sonatagreen> roughly
22:06 < Teceler> hm
22:07 < Adelene> I can give Lurker a way of scrying other universes that leads to her prioritizing them by things other than 'is it someplace I already know about'.
22:08 < Adelene> Meaning, people with characters from non-Lurked worlds could request a Lurking, but it shouldn't be unusual for that not to have already happened or for the Lurking not to happen immediately or even necessarily at all.
22:09 < Teceler> yeah, that would probably help cut down on that kind of conflict
22:09 < Adelene> On the other hand if someone shows up with a world that's in as rough shape as Carp it'll be hard to justify her not prioritizing that.
22:09 < sonatagreen> maybe sufficiently powerful characters get contacted by (or decide to create) the interplanar equivalent of the United Federation of Planets, and join the larger society at the cost of leaving the little people alone
22:10 < Adelene> Lurker would not bite.
22:10 < sonatagreen> yeah, I can see that
22:11 < sonatagreen> but at the same time, I feel like your plan has the same general sort of "the multiverse is a lot bigger than this forum's little corner of it" pattern to it?
22:11 < Adelene> Yup. :)
22:11 < Teceler> I feel like the key is having IC reasons not to or not to be able to do things that other players don't want, and working that out before it comes up
22:12 < Adelene> Lurker could be lured away into another project, but wouldn't be willing to promise not to come back.
22:12 < Adelene> *nodnod*
22:13 < sonatagreen> but at the same time, I feel like the sort of excuses needed for immovable/unstoppable type conflicts tend to be really general and absolute, so not a lot of room for long-term uncertainty and back-and-forth
22:13 < sonatagreen> like, Esthfora vs. Entelechy is likely to be less interesting than Andrew vs. Galen?
22:14 < sonatagreen> it's hard to play chess with superpowers
22:14 < linkhyrule5> I dunno
22:14 < Teceler> like, linkhyrule, I assume you've been consulting with Captain Virdian's player about that thing. You would want to talk to Archangel's before making plans for Keter
22:14 < linkhyrule5> Andrew vs. Galen would kind of bore me
22:14 < linkhyrule5> I'm a high fantasy fan
22:14 < linkhyrule5> I really really like seeing things that normal humans can't do
22:14 < linkhyrule5> What's the Haruhi quote
22:14 < Teceler> well, it depends on how well defined the powers are
22:15 < Teceler> and how interesting the characters are
22:15 < linkhyrule5> "I have no interest in ordinary humans.
22:15 < linkhyrule5> However, if there are any aliens, time travels, espers, or sliders present, contact me!"
22:15 < linkhyrule5> ... er.
22:15 < Teceler> ha
22:15 < linkhyrule5> ...
22:15 < sonatagreen> I like powers that are really non-general?
22:15 < linkhyrule5> I may have gotten caught up in planning.
22:15 < linkhyrule5> ...
22:15 < Teceler> I mean, I get that you're just thinking about it, bu--
22:15 < linkhyrule5> I should probably go let him know that I have a very convoluted plan in the works.
22:15 < Teceler> ah
22:15 < linkhyrule5> (In my defense, I wasn't going to /implement/ it without asking
22:15 < linkhyrule5> but.
22:15 < linkhyrule5> Still.
22:16 < linkhyrule5> Should probably let him know that planning has been happening)
22:16 < Teceler> I mean, if he doesn't actually want that universe to be rescued in that manner you kind of have a problem
22:16 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, like, my entire goal for Entelechy was "a generalized, fully explained, fully defined magic system", so
22:16 < linkhyrule5> and not really
22:16 < linkhyrule5> there's like 50 points for that to break and not work
22:16 < linkhyrule5> it'd be sad, but
22:17 < sonatagreen> I mean, the limits of what you can do in a small amount of mp could still be really interesting
22:17 < Teceler> yeah, you probably wouldn't have to not try it, there's that
22:17 < Teceler> considering the number of failure points
22:17 < Teceler> (not try it icly, I mean)
22:18 < sonatagreen> but it's like the mandelbrot fractal, right? the interesting part isn't in what you can or can't do, it's in the complexity of the shape of the boundary between them
22:18 < sonatagreen> it should be not immediately obvious whether something is possible or not
22:18 < linkhyrule5> Sometimes
22:19 < linkhyrule5> For me, it's usually more
22:19 < linkhyrule5> "I want to solve this problem, and I want the problem to be solved
22:19 < linkhyrule5> but how do I do it within reasonable rules/nontrivially?"
22:19 < linkhyrule5> Puzzles are a thing i like
22:19 < linkhyrule5> Unsolveable puzzles and tragedies, not so much
22:19 < Teceler> There's a element of fun in watching how something happens even if you know how it ends, yeah
22:20 < sonatagreen> puzzles are a good analogy, yeah, I want there to be things that take effort to realize how they're possible
22:20 < sonatagreen> ~*~complexity~*~
22:21 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
22:21 < Teceler> I think linkhyrule and I had a interesting time trying to work out how to make his Idea work without breaking either setting. That's another kind of puzzle.
22:22 < Teceler> But I think some of what you're talking about is the ic puzzle-solving?
22:22 < sonatagreen> Both ic and ooc, I think.
22:22 < sonatagreen> But leaning more on the ooc.
22:27 < linkhyrule5> IC puzzle-solving is jus ta matter of roleplaying what you've figured out OOC
22:28 < linkhyrule5> OOC puzzle-solving, yeah, is ultimately going to be more about worldbuilding
22:28 < Teceler> I feel like the easiest way to keep from trivializing conflicts might be to build in a cost for pulling out the big guns. So they only get used when they're really needed (ie on the same/similar power level)
22:28 < linkhyrule5> most of your constraints are "what you want your character to be able to do," since you can ultimately go God Mode Sue on everything if you're willing to be bored
22:28 < linkhyrule5> ^ that
22:29 < Teceler> I don't know, ic problem-solving can sometimes be 'watch the character work out/explain this thing that has been puzzling'
22:29 < Teceler> but I know everyone doesn't work that way
22:29 < linkhyrule5> If ME runs into, I dunno, the TITANs, he will suck it up and sacrifice his entire demiplane or something for a direct cross-Truth interference. Andthen he will not have a demiplane for an OOC month at least
22:29 < linkhyrule5> It will be a real, serious cost to him
22:30 < Adelene> *nod*
22:30 < Teceler> I somehow doubt he will be running headlong into the TITANs, that seems like a bad idea oocly and it's not as though I have any interesting ideas that would involve it
22:32 < Adelene> I've already more or less shot down the idea of costs with Lurker; in her case it's more going to be a combination of humility - she's never going to quite get how powerful she is - and that the forum is never going to have all her attention.
22:32 < Teceler> (the 'running into the TITANs' part more than the cost of dealing with it, if you want him to have to deal with the fallout of something like that I'm sure you can find something to cause that)
22:33 < linkhyrule5> it's just an example
22:33 < Teceler> I got that, I just felt like I needed to respond to it
22:33 < Adelene> The problem with Lurker is more that she's going to uplift Leaf, and Leaf doesn't admit of so many restrictions. ^^
22:33 < linkhyrule5> I agree taht running into TITANs would not be a good idea
22:33 < linkhyrule5> Especially since it's not clear /who/ would win that one, and I'd rather not my character get exiled due to death :P
22:34 < Teceler> Ade, well, in that case some of the cost is 'I could be somewhere else helping people'. There's opportunity cost, too
22:34 < linkhyrule5> ... We may want to discuss how willing we are to let our characters die at some point, but
22:34 < Adelene> That too.
22:35 < linkhyrule5> I mean, ultimately, I suspect that our worlds are going to end up looking like the Belltower does
22:35 < Adelene> I would *like* to get Lurker to endgame? But if it would actually make sense for her to die at some point before that I'm not going to be too shaken up over it.
22:35 < linkhyrule5> (and on a side note sometime you should ask Grigori what that means to a Mage player, it's kind of hilarios)
22:36 < linkhyrule5> that is to say, mostly sunshine and roses because the problems have bee solved by stupid amounts of magic :P
22:36 < linkhyrule5> And then we'll move on or something
22:36 < linkhyrule5> ... I would /not/ be okay with ME dying, I think.
22:36 < linkhyrule5> I am not okay with death on any level in any mode in any place, so.
22:36 < linkhyrule5> I think if it comes to that he'll just drift away and not get involved in whatever would have killed him, and switch characters
22:37 < linkhyrule5> Which would be the same from an OOC perspective, but.
22:37 < Teceler> I mean, there's a distinction between getting killed and getting knocked out of the game for ages to recover
22:37 < sonatagreen> I mean, the keeper, but
22:37 < linkhyrule5> true
22:37 < linkhyrule5> and I'm still wavering on the keepr
22:37 < linkhyrule5> because, yannow
22:37 < Kel> Or like, getting routinely kidnapped away from the forum
22:38 < linkhyrule5> it's an avenue for stupidly broken things to escape Entelechy, which we've agreed is "too much on fire"
22:38 < linkhyrule5> Hello, Kel. WHo are you, Kel? :P
22:38 < Teceler> which OOCly can amount to the same thing by icly might be easier
22:38 < Kel> linkhyrule5, Hi! I'm the author of Botanical Engineer, Dotted Lines, and Lantern!
22:38 < Teceler> I mean, you could probably get a ruling that the keeper would only reinstantate Entelechy things with serious restrictions to make them work with the rest
22:38 < Teceler> oh, hey
22:39 < Teceler> Thorn is currently being adorably concerned (at least from my perspective) about Dotted Lines
22:39 < Kel> I also find the concern endearing! :)
22:40 < Kel> Dotted Lines is happy and slightly confused
22:41 < linkhyrule5> Oh hello
22:41 < Teceler> if I knew why she decided to be concerned about him in particular I would tell you, but I haven't the slightest idea.
22:41 < linkhyrule5> ME will probably include Dotted Lines' world on the list of worlds that need saving he'll be posting soonish
22:42 < Teceler> was she right about him deliberately making suspiciously specific denials about things?
22:42 -!- Kel has quit
22:42 < linkhyrule5> Dotted Lines will probably bevery confused
22:43 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
22:43 < linkhyrule5> Dotted Lines will probably bevery confused
22:44 < Kel> sorry my computer crashed and i missed everything said after the last thing i said (I'm on a tablet now)
22:45 < Kel> is there somewhere i could find logs?
22:45 < sonatagreen> yeah, but for now I'll just paste you in pm
22:45 < Teceler> sonatagreen has been keeping them, but I'm not sure if she's put them somewhere
22:46 < Teceler> ah
22:49 < Kel> yes he's intentionally been making suspiciously specific denials
22:49 < Teceler> I think Thorn might have had a similar reaction to Lurking if she had had less trouble parsing her posts, but I'm not sure, I'm not modeling that bit very well.
22:51 < Teceler> oh, good, I was a little worried she was going to interpret something as that that was not meant as such at all
22:53 < Kel> nope! it was definitely meant as such, along the lines of "beings that can only be described as definitely not angels" denial levels.
22:53 < Teceler> heh
22:58 < Kel> he would be at least a little confused, and probably agree that it needs fixing but be too worried about accidentally getting his town taken over by something even worse to accept offers of help.
22:59 < Adelene> Lurking's world should make the bullshit list, yeah, once you're parsing her well enough to get coherent data about it. She's not personally highly inconvenienced, but those elves are definitely some bullshit and the goblins aren't much better.
23:00 < linkhyrule5> They're on the list, but like
23:00 < linkhyrule5> Top of the list is CV's world
23:00 < linkhyrule5> Then Keter
23:00 < Adelene> *nod*
23:00 < Teceler> I don't think it's /just/ messed up worlds, because Prism definitely doesn't qualify.
23:00 < linkhyrule5> Then Inavet's
23:01 < linkhyrule5> (Yeah, it's generally "this world needs someone to save it
23:01 < linkhyrule5> whether from physics or people doesn't matter")
23:01 < Teceler> Well, CV's world is literally falling apart into nothing, it makes sense for that to be first
23:01 < Adelene> *nod*
23:01 < linkhyrule5> Then some order of Dotted Line's and Lurking's, depending on how big the problem is in DL
23:01 < Adelene> Lurking will eventually be renovating her world and I'd rather that be left to her, but so long as people check with her first before actually doing anything that should go fine.
23:02 < linkhyrule5> The World of Darkness is above that tier on "problems", but ends up below because all its problems are hard to solve
23:02 < linkhyrule5> (we may not even get that far before she manages yet, yeah)
23:02 < Adelene> *nod*
23:02 < linkhyrule5> Technically the Entelechy is on the list too, but it mostly has its apocalypsi in hand
23:03 < linkhyrule5> Oh, wait, Eclipse Phase is definitely on this list
23:03 < Teceler> Lurking having a plan seems like it should put Carp lower priority than otherwise. --does she icly have the plan yet?
23:03 < linkhyrule5> uh, somewhere around Inavet's, it's not urgent urgent like Keter but
23:03 < linkhyrule5> it still kind of sucks
23:03 < Adelene> Nope
23:03 < linkhyrule5> Though actually, the post may put Dotted LIne's first, since Eclipse seems /stable/ at least even if it's not awful
23:04 < linkhyrule5> *not great
23:04 < Teceler> They have got the worst of it under control, and -- yeah.
23:04 < Adelene> She hasn't ICly realized that she might want to plan on that level, she's still worried about personally surviving the next six months.
23:04 < linkhyrule5> Dotted Line's has active reeducation, nope nope nope
23:04 < linkhyrule5> Leaf's is pretty not in bad shape already
23:04 < linkhyrule5> or at least odesn't have big cosmic/global problems
23:05 < linkhyrule5> What else.. Daevinity /is/ a problem, that
23:05 < linkhyrule5> ... most of the worlds in existence are on this list
23:05 < linkhyrule5> T.T
23:05 < Adelene> *chuckle*
23:05 < Teceler> prioritize
23:05 < Kel> what was it someone said?
23:05 < Teceler> which ones are in the most trouble and getting worse the fastest and he can do the most about?
23:06 < Kel> that almost no sentient beings on the forum come from acceptable world s?
23:06 < Teceler> 'the number is rapidly dropping'
23:06 < Teceler> or something like that
23:06 < sonatagreen> the proportion is approaching zero
23:06 < Teceler> that
23:07 < Kel> yeah!
23:07 < linkhyrule5> CV and Keter are both cost effective
23:07 < linkhyrule5> CV he can pull off, as above
23:08 < linkhyrule5> Keter just has loooots of nasty multiverse ending things, so if he's ever going to pull out the big guns Keter's a good place for it
23:08 < Teceler> Re: Reeducation, Part of the reason Thorn's latest response to Dotted Lines got delayed was that another instance of her template is going 'yeah, getting kidnapped and tortured tends to make me jumpy too' and Thorn is going no we can't say that and I'm going 'did anything like that even happen to Thorn' and yeah
23:08 < linkhyrule5> loooool
23:08 < linkhyrule5> OOC debates
23:09 < linkhyrule5> Inavet's world, not a good place for big guns, but informational effects and shorign up organizations and weird conceptual thigns like that would be really helpful there
23:09 < Teceler> Keter is as cost-effective as Archangel's player wants it to be, but your point is made.
23:09 < linkhyrule5> (man, I talk a lot. Let me know if I'm clogging it up too much, will you?)
23:09 < linkhyrule5> Well, yeah
23:09 < linkhyrule5> All of this is ME's list, really
23:09 < linkhyrule5> at any point the relevant world-writers can jsut go "nope"
23:09 < linkhyrule5> (Inavet: "Yes?")
23:09 < Kel> you're amount of talking is fine by me!
23:09 < Adelene> Inavet's world is likely to have a gratuitously invisible kobold applied to it. ^^
23:09 < linkhyrule5> loool
23:09 < Teceler> hee
23:10 < linkhyrule5> well, that might not solve everything
23:10 < linkhyrule5> a lot of the stuff ME would help with is things like "stable, safe change of regime"
23:10 < linkhyrule5> turns out fate magic and social Charms are great for that
23:10 < Teceler> Yeah, but some of the ways they can go nope might make it harder for him to do things, is I think what I was trying to say
23:10 < linkhyrule5> Ah, I see
23:10 < Adelene> I need to go work on things.
23:10 < linkhyrule5> yeah, things will move up or down after scrying
23:10 < Teceler> *might be to make
23:11 < Kel> yeah but not everyone is necessarily going to trust that change
23:11 < Teceler> Good luck with your things
23:11 < linkhyrule5> (I still need to run the "ME scries WoD, gets Gauntlet'd, nopes the Gauntlet and has to go find a more subtle way of finding things out" scene)
23:11 < linkhyrule5> good luck, Ade!
23:12 < Kel> good luck!
23:28 < Teceler> I'm going to go get some sleep, I will be back in the morning probably
23:30 < linkhyrule5> lol
23:30 < linkhyrule5> night
23:30 < sonatagreen> Since it's quieted down a bit, I'm going to take this opportunity to paste the log into the forum.
23:30 < Teceler> do trim out the addresses in the join/parts
23:30 < sonatagreen> yeah
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 25, 2015 6:13:32 GMT
Spoilered because long. 23:31 < Teceler> right. sleep.
23:32 < linkhyrule5> sooooo
23:32 < linkhyrule5> on a sid enote
23:32 < linkhyrule5> anyone want to react to my creation myth IC?
23:32 < linkhyrule5> this is totally a gambit to increase public actions and drum up enthusasim and not just me begging for attention
23:32 < linkhyrule5> :P
23:32 < linkhyrule5> (but seriously though somebody post somethig)
23:34 < Kel> okay lantern will react tomorrow morning?
23:35 < Kel> ooc i thought it was very nice. iloik liked the rhythm of it
23:35 < Kel> *I liked
23:36 < linkhyrule5> yay!
23:36 -!- Teceler has quit
23:36 < linkhyrule5> thanks
23:36 < Kel> you're welcome! :)
23:39 <Kel> I need to go to sleep now. good night!
23:40 -!- Kel has quit
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00:07 < sonatagreen> test
00:09 < sonatagreen> test2
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00:11 -!- Irssi: #backstage: Total of 5 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 5 normal]
00:11 -!- mode/#backstage [+qo MotherStarlight MotherStarlight] by ChanServ
00:11 -!- Irssi: Join to #backstage was synced in 17 secs
00:11 < sonatagreen> test3
00:12 < linkhyrule5> all tests wer eseen
00:12 < linkhyrule5> unless there was a test1
00:12 < linkhyrule5> also, is anyone here watchign UBW?
00:12 < linkhyrule5> because they totally should
00:12 < linkhyrule5> also I'm mildly tempted to introduce Zelretch and Rin
00:27 < sonatagreen> test4 (am testing logging stuff)
00:28 < sonatagreen> ok, seems to be working
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00:47 < Eva> Hey Linkhyrule
00:48 < Eva> (pingy ping linkhyrule5 ping)
01:02 -!- Eva has quit
There was some trouble with the logging around midnight and I don't know why, so if other people want to log also for redundancy, that would be good. (In this instance, nothing was actually lost; I added back the missing lines manually.) |
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Kappa
Backstage
Posts: 30
World: IRL
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Post by Kappa on May 25, 2015 13:08:30 GMT
Backstage thread title?
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 25, 2015 15:53:43 GMT
Whoops, fixed, thanks.
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 26, 2015 15:36:50 GMT
Spoilered because long. 00:28 < sonatagreen> ok, seems to be working
00:47 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
00:47 < Eva> Hey Linkhyrule
00:48 < Eva> (pingy ping linkhyrule5 ping)
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02:26 < Thatwasademo> .
02:28 < Thatwasademo> Man, I almost feel like making an XCOM Councilman account just to have a counterexample shadowy organization to the SCP
02:34 < Thatwasademo> but then I remember that I'm already not posting very much on Viridian...
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10:43 < kappabeta> Wow, it sure is quiet around here XD
10:43 < Teceler> very quiet
10:43 < kappabeta> ~too~ quiet
10:43 < kappabeta> no
10:44 < kappabeta> XD
10:44 < sonatagreen> I'm just glad people sleep sometimes, I thought it would never stop last night
10:44 < kappabeta> hahaha
10:44 < Teceler> ...sorry?
10:45 < sonatagreen> it was busy and kept being busy and I wasn't sure if it was going to get quiet at all ever
10:45 < sonatagreen> and then finally people decided to sleep or something
10:45 < sonatagreen> so I'm glad there's a sort of cycle to it
10:45 < sonatagreen> rather than just being always on
10:47 < Adelene> You *can* go to sleep even when the IRC is still active.
10:48 < sonatagreen> yes but
10:48 < sonatagreen> it's hard to remember that in the moment
10:48 < sonatagreen> and it always feels like it makes more sense to stay on just a few minutes longer
10:49 < Teceler> yeah, I know I didn't want to go to bed before it quieted down.
10:49 < Adelene> It won't be useful if this is the only thing you'd use it for, but might I suggest habitrpg?
10:50 < sonatagreen> eeenh
10:50 < Adelene> It's not for everybody but it does work for adding consequences to things.
10:56 -!- Kel has quit
10:58 < Thatwasademo> oh it's not quite as quiet now
11:05 < Teceler> you may have spoken too soon :P
11:05 < kappabeta> pff
11:05 < kappabeta> XD
11:08 < Teceler> I am kind of tempted to have Tyche go post in Misfortunes & Mistakes with 'hey, Thorn is having a nervous breakdown, does anyone have any advice other than 'let her muse handle it?'
11:08 < kappabeta> omg XD
11:08 < kappabeta> poor thorn
11:08 < Teceler> because based on the sense I've been getting of her stress levels I'm pretty sure she /is/
11:08 < Teceler> yeah
11:25 < Hadassah> It's kind of interesting to see how the outside influence of the forum can have on all the worlds and people. I know Hadassah (in my headcanon) doesn't have much of an outlet usually, but in the version now where she has this forum she at least gets to feel part of a community, albeit one with only one uniting feature each memeber has in common.
11:27 < kappabeta> hehe
11:34 < Teceler> Thorn is not the most stable person to start with -- kind of how I picture it is that she's very good at self-management but it doesn't take a /lot/ of added stress to throw her into CANNOT HANDLE AH (this is despite her ridiculous Willpower, which she kind of needs to function at all). This is mostly Eclipse Phase's fault.
11:35 < Teceler> It is good that Hadassah has an outlet! It kind of seems like she needs one
11:37 < sonatagreen> Mother Starlight just posted in the coalition thread. This is what she looks like when she's angry.
11:38 < sonatagreen> (She's very restrained about it.)
11:40 < kappabeta> angry at Archangel? XD
11:40 < sonatagreen> yep
11:41 < Teceler> she is restrained, but she does parse as Very Unhappy With These Shenanigans
11:42 < Teceler> *does very definitely
11:42 < sonatagreen> It seems that when she's angry she talks more like Gray Librarian. I'm not entirely happy about that, but she doesn't want to budge.
11:48 < Teceler> I didn't actually notice that, huh
11:48 < sonatagreen> oh good
12:05 < Teceler> okay, I'm curious, which thing is Lurking being disgruntled at?
12:07 < Adelene> Lurker is disgruntled at the apparent general inability of human tribes to take care of their members. Leaf's going to get an earful later, too, probably. ^^
12:08 < Teceler> ha
12:08 < Teceler> yeah, that makes sense
12:09 < Adelene> ^^
12:10 < sonatagreen> Lurker is *so adorable*
12:11 < sonatagreen> and she's like "ugh, humans, fine, here's how you do LIKE THE MOST BASIC THINGS"
12:11 < kappabeta> Lurker is excellent
12:11 < Adelene> :D
12:11 < Teceler> those things
12:11 < Teceler> although, point of order, Tyche's an AGI :P
12:11 < sonatagreen> heee
12:16 < Adelene> (There's also a distinct undertone of 'okay so here's how you fix your fuckup' there, too - if people are collapsing you've already failed, according to Lurker.)
12:17 < Teceler> (that is a reasonable point of view)
12:18 < Teceler> Tyche is just grateful for the advice, I'm not sure if e picked up on that all
12:18 < Adelene> (*nodnod* especially for someone used to situations where it's hard to keep incapacitated people safe.)
12:18 < Adelene> *nod* I didn't really expect it to get through, yeah.
12:19 < Teceler> ...heavy of fire?
12:20 < Adelene> Lurker was confused at being asked about temperature.
12:20 < Teceler> ah
12:20 < Teceler> Tyche wasn't sure if the bit about the cover as 'keep her warm' or something else
12:20 < Teceler> and was not really thinking about translation
12:20 < Adelene> *nod*
12:22 < Adelene> Lurker's usual context for this is caves, 'dim' means 'away from the fire' by default, so there is actually an element of warmth there too, but for stress problems you *specifically* break out the heavy blankets rather than the warm ones.
12:24 < Teceler> huh
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12:25 < Aestrix> Hello
12:26 < Thatwasademo> Hello!
12:26 < Teceler> hello people
12:26 < Adelene> hi :)
12:26 < sonatagreen> hi
12:26 < Thatwasademo> i've been here lurking while you talk about lurking
12:26 < Aestrix> I finally poked my head in here xD
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12:27 < Thatwasademo> oh hey pistachi0n posted
12:27 < Thatwasademo> let me go take care of that
12:27 < Aestrix> The way you say that makes me wonder if you're going to put a hit on her or something.
12:27 < Thatwasademo> (in arkham that is)
12:27 < Aestrix> "I see pistachi0n posted something. Let me go.... take CARE of that."
12:28 < Teceler> XD
12:28 < Aestrix> :P
12:28 < Thatwasademo> now why would i put a hit on kate winthrop she's great
12:28 < Aestrix> Do you believe in science?
12:28 < kappabeta> aestrix ask the thing
12:28 < Aestrix> Oh right
12:28 < Thatwasademo> i believe in anything that can stop a gate from appearing
12:28 < Thatwasademo> also i just realized
12:28 < Thatwasademo> arkham is about dimensional instability
12:29 < Aestrix> So Rae might be getting access to QDS magic and I am just sort of ?????? on what his MP should be
12:29 < Hadassah> Ha
12:29 < kappabeta> he's a four-thousand-year-old god
12:29 < Thatwasademo> heh
12:29 < Thatwasademo> how does MP work again
12:29 < Aestrix> On one hand he is like four thousand years old, and is a magic god that is also a place. On the other hand, his life has been at risk exactly once
12:30 < kappabeta> i'm *pretty* sure that if being a god and doing god things count towards MP accumulation at *all*, his starting MP total will be A Lot
12:30 < sonatagreen> He definitely gets mp from the life-at-risk thing, and he probably gets a little from doing magic god things
12:30 < Aestrix> Welp.
12:30 < Aestrix> He is going to have a stupid amount of MP xD
12:30 < sonatagreen> but magic practice doesn't necessarily accumulate straightforwardly
12:30 < kappabeta> hmm?
12:31 < sonatagreen> like, to what extent has he developed *proficiency* at magic?
12:31 < sonatagreen> if he isn't stretching himself to accomplish more and more difficult things magically, then he's not making further progress
12:31 < Aestrix> He has gotten much better at being magic over the years - he goes and tweaks his domain according to his followers and what sorts of things they need
12:32 < Aestrix> Like at first he kind of sucked, but now he's got an entire system working in his domain where it will lead people to things they need to do stuff they want through various subtle methods
12:32 < sonatagreen> In comparison to other gods, or to himself just starting out, how would you rank him on the Carp skill ladder?
12:32 < Aestrix> On what scale?
12:32 < sonatagreen> I'm not sure I understand your question
12:33 < Aestrix> There are lots of different things that gods can be considered good at. There are gods that are really good at getting a ton of followers, and ones that are really good at keeping their domains the way they like them
12:34 < Aestrix> So I'm not sure how to rank them without something more specific
12:34 < kappabeta> well, getting a ton of followers doesn't seem like a doing magic thing
12:34 < Aestrix> Yeah
12:34 < kappabeta> how good is he comparatively at *specifically* doing magic things
12:34 < sonatagreen> yeah
12:34 < Aestrix> Hmmm
12:34 < kappabeta> of like, a specifically "accomplish desired result using own magic" kind
12:34 < Aestrix> Honestly, considering how he works and how he doesn't tend to get mortals to do shit for him?
12:34 < Aestrix> One of the better ones.
12:35 < kappabeta> XD
12:35 < Aestrix> Not necessarily the best, but definitely one of the better ones xD
12:35 < sonatagreen> so I'm feeling like this entitles him to cast mid-level spells
12:35 < sonatagreen> maybe 40ish mp?
12:35 < sonatagreen> maybe 50
12:35 < Aestrix> <3
12:36 < Aestrix> Thanks!
12:36 < Aestrix> He will be very confused as to increasing his MP, because it's sort of hard to put a god in life threatening situations.
12:36 < kappabeta> well, he can increase it by going around casting spells a lot XD
12:36 < sonatagreen> It's important to understand that the Nexusites completely broke the scale.
12:36 < sonatagreen> yes
12:36 < kappabeta> hahahahahaha
12:37 < kappabeta> The Naismiths, in particular
12:37 < Aestrix> <3
12:37 < Aestrix> Ina kind of broke it a bit, too, being an elven fugitive :P
12:37 < sonatagreen> yeah
12:37 < Hadassah> I'd say that the existential threat of being connected to the forum, (and by extension, the SCP and every other danger involved) would have some impact for everyone. ><;
12:37 < Kel> Isn't it only if there's an emotional impact resulting from that risk?
12:37 < Kel> Was the impression I got?
12:37 < sonatagreen> Soooort of.
12:38 < sonatagreen> Emotional impact is the measuring stick of whether the risk counts as risky.
12:38 < sonatagreen> but it doesn't have to be like long-term trauma
12:38 < Aestrix> Ooo, Rae's one moment of life risking was a big one then :D
12:38 < Hadassah> Makes sense. I figured it was more likely a physical threat-like thing.
12:38 < Thatwasademo> actually, interesting question: how much MP would Viridian have gotten from Veni Vedi Vici?
12:39 < sonatagreen> I don't know what that is
12:39 < Thatwasademo> a particularly frustrating series of rooms in VVVVVV where Viridian would likely have gotten impaled on spikes over and over again
12:40 < Aestrix> Poor Viridian
12:40 < sonatagreen> for playing a nasty-hard platformer full of spikes, the game as a whole, maybe 10-20 ish
12:40 < Thatwasademo> Viridian wouldn't be in any real danger of death, but there would be the risk of pain and frustration
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12:41 < Thatwasademo> oh hey!
12:41 < Eva> Ohai
12:41 < Aestrix> Hello!
12:41 < Hadassah> Hiyas
12:41 < Teceler> hello
12:41 < Eva> Hey, the channel's actually active. :3
12:41 < Thatwasademo> i know right
12:41 < sonatagreen> a good rule of thumb is: if you had to suffer that pain voluntarily, would it require a significant act of will/character to go through with it?
12:42 < sonatagreen> Dungeon is trying to apply the paradigm of earing XP in combat to worlds that don't actually work that way
12:42 < sonatagreen> so it's conflating some things that don't actually reliably correspond
12:42 < sonatagreen> which gets messy
12:42 < Hadassah> I wasn't planning on Hadassah gaining any magic on the Dungeon-scale, as she would be treated like an enchanted sword that can talk in most universes. I don't think enchanted weapons usually have the ability to gain experience or cast spells.
12:42 < sonatagreen> Makes sense.
12:43 < Aestrix> I mean, would Rae be able to have magic? He is arguably a magic place
12:43 < sonatagreen> Although I could also imagine a roguelike having a golem/construct playable race
12:43 < Aestrix> QDS magic, I mean
12:43 < kappabeta> haha
12:43 < Thatwasademo> you know what the worst part of Veni Vidi Vici is?
12:44 < Aestrix> Does it kill you near the end and you have to go to the beginning again?
12:44 < Thatwasademo> the Trinket that was the entire point of going through it could have been gotten trivially if he could jump instead of flipping
12:44 < sonatagreen> Rae might have to have his manifested form read the spellbook for Dungeon to go "yep, that's a dude" at him
12:44 < Thatwasademo> it is literally on the other side of a 1 tile high wall
12:44 < Aestrix> Pff
12:45 < Aestrix> Okay, so he would get Dungeon magic, probably, even though he's magic talking sand. Got it
12:45 < sonatagreen> It *could* go either way, but Dungeon will generally try to understand stuff through its own paradigm if it can
12:46 < Aestrix> Rae's such a weird case for it.
12:46 < Thatwasademo> you have no idea how tempted I am to confuse everyone by adding in a Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup character to involve both yet another magic system and yet another type of gods
12:46 < Aestrix> Why would you do that
12:46 < Aestrix> Don't do that
12:47 < Teceler> ha
12:47 < Aestrix> I worry that I confuse people with my TWO settings with completely different magic systems xD
12:47 < Hadassah> Oh, I am okay with other golem-constructs having magic (a la the Warforged) but I just like Hadassah playing the intelligent bruiser type. Its mostly flavor
12:47 < kappabeta> dfadfasdfsdf oh come on isn't it the POINT of this place to have a ton of worlds XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD <3
12:47 < kappabeta> anyway i should eat a food though
12:47 < kappabeta> brb
12:47 < Aestrix> But. But. WHAT ABOUT MY CATEGORIZATIONS KAPPA
12:48 < kappabeta> MAKE A SPREADSHEET
12:48 < kappabeta> brb for real
12:48 < Thatwasademo> look i'm not sure we need two magic systems that both use MP
12:48 < Aestrix> We'd need to call it something else because lord would that be confusing.
12:48 < Thatwasademo> wait no maybe we do
12:48 < Eva> So I heard there was a plan involving Lioncourt?
12:49 < Thatwasademo> maybe Dungeon magic can be cast from Crawl mp
12:49 < Thatwasademo> and this promptly becomes broken
12:49 < Teceler> Cassiel's native magic system uses something mp-like, but I don't think there's an actual name for it.
12:49 < Teceler> ...ha
12:49 < Teceler> Yeah, the plan involving Lioncourt -- I think most of that was in the log?
12:49 < sonatagreen> The way I see it, we could make sure everything fits together neatly, or we could make a huge mess and then run around panicking. Which do you think would be more fun?
12:49 < Aestrix> .... Point.
12:50 < Eva> Yeah, I read it, but I have yet to recieve any PMs.
12:50 < Aestrix> I like neat things though
12:50 < Teceler> the person with the plan whose name I cannot spell without a reference isn't here at the moment
12:50 < Teceler> Or they would probably be explaining
12:50 < sonatagreen> Meletiti Entelecheiai?
12:50 < Thatwasademo> actually nevermind Crawl mp actually seems to be a much smaller scale than Dungeon mp
12:50 < Eva> Yeah, him.
12:51 < Teceler> well, yes, I can't spell that either, but his player was more what I meant
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12:51 < Teceler> er
12:51 < Aestrix> World of Warcraft mp or something would probably be better for scale breaking if that is what you're after :P
12:51 < Thatwasademo> HAHAHAHA
12:51 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
12:51 < Aestrix> Welcome back!
12:52 -!- sky has joined #backstage
12:52 < Thatwasademo> "okay, so I can cast create demiplane a few thousand times in a row before even having to pause to drink something, but it's kind of expensive in terms of gold"
12:52 < Teceler> ...hee
12:52 < Aestrix> xD
12:53 < Thatwasademo> even if you scaled the MP amounts linearly upwards a ton
12:53 < Aestrix> Very broken
12:53 < Thatwasademo> there's still the fact that you can just sit down, drink some mineral water, and have all your mana back
12:53 < Aestrix> I am not suggesting you do that thing, but if you want to break the system that is how
12:55 < Thatwasademo> whereas Crawl mp would actually basically match Dungeon mp 1:1 at the low end but be impossible to get very far above 50
12:55 < Thatwasademo> because DCSS loves its stepdown functions
12:55 < Aestrix> <3
12:55 < Thatwasademo> also natural MP is literally capped at 50
12:57 * kappabeta kappaplops
12:57 < Aestrix> Welcome back!
12:57 < Hadassah> Welcome back
12:58 < Aestrix> Imagining how different magic systems break each other is fun xD
12:58 < kappabeta> :D
12:58 < Aestrix> Mind, I don't think it's a good idea to break things indiscriminately
12:59 < Thatwasademo> the most MP you can possibly have in DCSS is somewhere around 110
12:59 < Thatwasademo> wait no i mean 80
13:00 < Thatwasademo> so I guess an Elyvilon worshipper could possibly cast temporal stasis
13:00 < Thatwasademo> at max level
13:00 < Thatwasademo> with all the MP gear
13:00 < Aestrix> I have no idea what the words you're saying mean, fair warning :P
13:00 < Thatwasademo> Elyvilon is the Crawl goddess of healing and pacifism
13:01 < Aestrix> That pretty much entirely cleared it up, actually, thanks!
13:01 < Thatwasademo> and has an ability that can grant max MP temporarily
13:01 < Thatwasademo> yup
13:02 < Adelene> It is not actually immediately obvious to me that Lurker would be able to set that sort of character's MP to >80?
13:03 < Thatwasademo> ?
13:03 < Adelene> Like, that seems like the sort of thing that Carp magic might take offense at being asked to do, depending on the details.
13:03 < Adelene> Kind of similar to how you can give objects the properties of other objects but not make say a stone that's got arbitrary mohs hardness.
13:03 < Thatwasademo> on the other hand chain lightning costs 52 MP from Dungeon but 8 MP from Crawl (since Crawl spells cost MP equal to their level and the highest spell level there is 9)
13:04 < Adelene> Dungeon doesn't run into this problem because there is no actual max.
13:04 < Thatwasademo> yeah that's what I figured
13:04 < Aestrix> That's interesting
13:04 < Thatwasademo> Dungeon is meant to be a nethack-like right?
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13:04 < Thatwasademo> Instant kill nonsense and incredibly powerful magic where wishes mean everything?
13:07 < Thatwasademo> Also, Adelene, I think I just got what you said
13:07 < Adelene> 'k
13:07 < Aestrix> You know, I'm curious, does Lurker break arcany too? You could likely tweak the results of the ritual to get it after the fact
13:07 < Aestrix> Which is uh. Huge
13:08 < Aestrix> And I kinda don't want it to happen xD
13:08 < Thatwasademo> And yeah, especially since Crawl MP is based pretty strictly on a character's Level, Species, Spellcasting, Invocations, and Evocations
13:08 < Adelene> I've been assuming no, functionally - someone with an arbitrary ability to fiddle with things could but Arcany seems too small and fiddly and you'd be just about guaranteed a miscast.
13:08 < Thatwasademo> So I'd imagine the easiest way to change a Crawl character's MP (within the 50 point natural MP cap) would be to change their species modifier
13:09 < Aestrix> Arcany is very small and fiddly, hooray <3
13:09 < Adelene> ^^
13:09 < Thatwasademo> hooray~
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13:09 < Aestrix> It wouldn't be setting breaking, exactly, but it would kill my poor aesthetic.
13:09 < Aestrix> Or whatever the hell I call the feel the magic invokes.
13:10 < Adelene> It does seem like you could do more moderate amounts of fiddling to customize the ritual for people and get it more optimized.
13:10 < Aestrix> Yeah, that's fine
13:10 < Aestrix> But I rather like the feeling of the ritual being a one time thing, that you have to get right when you do it.
13:10 < Adelene> *nod* Yeah, I got that.
13:10 < Thatwasademo> the more we talk about magic systems the more I feel like making a character from Zot wouldn't actually be a bad idea
13:11 < Thatwasademo> Zot being a workable distinct name for Crawl
13:11 -!- Eva has quit
13:12 < Thatwasademo> but I would have absolutely no plot to work with
13:12 < Aestrix> I mean, I didn't have a plot for either of mine
13:12 < Aestrix> ... Wait I have three now
13:12 < Thatwasademo> I guess that's true
13:13 < Aestrix> Plot just sort of happens!
13:13 < Thatwasademo> I had only the barest inkling of a plot and basically no worldbuilding for Viridian but ME is amazing
13:13 < Thatwasademo> plus Andrew and Grigori helped get that started
13:14 < Aestrix> <3
13:14 < Thatwasademo> and ORZ
13:15 < Adelene> A thing to think about plotwise: Starting in, oh, about two months, most of Lurker's time is going to be spent lurking in Carp magic classrooms, and she's going to be specifically asking about situations that would let her practice the skills she's learning.
13:15 < Adelene> Which could fix and/or break various things.
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13:16 < Thatwasademo> I like how Viridian's situation has monotonically improved, since that matches the tone of his character and setting quite well
13:17 < Aestrix> :D
13:17 < Thatwasademo> Things might be bad, but once you hit a checkpoint, you've hit a checkpoint.
13:17 < Aestrix> I started with a unicorn icon for Prism, her saccharine dystopia was entirely on the fly xD
13:17 < sonatagreen> heee
13:17 < Thatwasademo> heh
13:18 < Adelene> Lurker was literally intended to be a lurking account and never post, I should have known better tho. ^^
13:18 < Aestrix> <3
13:19 < Thatwasademo> oh yeah earlier i was thinking about making an XCOM Councilman since shady conspiracies seem to be all the rage these days
13:19 < Aestrix> I also really don't regret Rae's existence.
13:19 < kappabeta> <3
13:19 < Aestrix> It was the greatest decision.
13:19 < Adelene> Rae. <3
13:19 < Aestrix> I am so glad I gave him a forum account xD
13:19 < Aestrix> <3
13:19 < Thatwasademo> why would anyone ever regret Rae's existence
13:19 < Thatwasademo> <3
13:19 < Aestrix> Hee
13:19 < Aestrix> I'm glad other people like him!
13:19 < Thatwasademo> best god
13:20 < Aestrix> <3
13:20 < Aestrix> He surprised me with the passionate defense of mortals
13:20 < Aestrix> "Writer. Step aside. I have MORTALS TO DEFEND."
13:21 < Adelene> Rae is definitely one of my top three deities.
13:21 < Thatwasademo> oh no I just got a terrible idea
13:21 < Adelene> It's like
13:21 < Thatwasademo> what if I make a forum account for Xom
13:21 < Adelene> If I have to pick one deity for everyone to deal with, Teah.
13:21 < Thatwasademo> http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Xom
13:21 < Adelene> If I get to optimize just for myself, Rae.
13:21 < Aestrix> Aww <3
13:21 < kappabeta> <3
13:21 < Adelene> If I'm not allowed to revamp the world at the same time and have to live here but get to follow anybody, Eris.
13:22 < kappabeta> what do you mean by not allowed to revamp the world?
13:22 < Adelene> Teah without being able to give things to people isn't very Teahish.
13:22 < Eva> I wonder how Rae's negotiations are going with deletion-woman
13:22 < kappabeta> true
13:22 < Adelene> Ditto Rae without his domain.
13:22 < kappabeta> yeah
13:23 < Aestrix> Rae realized that deleting slavery would involve mass mind control
13:23 < Aestrix> And decided to pass
13:24 < Aestrix> I should figure out how to post the logs so people can read it
13:24 < kappabeta> <3
13:24 < Aestrix> I rather like his moment of confusion as he wants two things at once that are incompatible xD
13:24 < Thatwasademo> Oh also soon I am likely to decide that Viridian's crew has upgraded the ship's scanners or whatever and put them on a course towards somebody's world
13:25 < Thatwasademo> just like put out an OOC call for somebody's world to be nearby and noticed
13:25 < kappabeta> ooh
13:25 < Eva> May I suggest Lioncourt's?
13:25 < Aestrix> You can have them travel to Facet if you like
13:25 < Adelene> I should go do things.
13:25 < Aestrix> ~Saccharine dystopia~
13:25 < Adelene> (You can point 'em at Carp if you want, but I don't know why you'd want to.)
13:25 < Thatwasademo> but then I have to figure out how they actually enter a world when they're not crash landing
13:25 < kappabeta> You can hit up Nexus if you want, too XD
13:25 < Teceler> they could come to Eclipse if you want them to have new complicated problems :P
13:26 < Thatwasademo> Nexus might be conveniently recognizable and of conveniently high tech level, since one idea is that the safest "landing" method is actually to just put the ship in orbit and get the inhabitants to build a teleporter
13:26 < Aestrix> Heh
13:26 < Thatwasademo> End up with Leaf having a giant circle on his wall
13:27 < Aestrix> Poor Leaf. He's so stressed though!
13:27 < kappabeta> put the ship in orbit of what?
13:27 < Teceler> Nexus and Eclipse both have space travel, which should help
13:27 < Thatwasademo> in orbit of the outside of the universe
13:27 < kappabeta> pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
13:27 < kappabeta> welp XD
13:27 < Teceler> oh
13:28 < Thatwasademo> the D.S.S. Souleye works by translating the space between worlds/dimensions into basically threespace that can be traveled through conventionally
13:29 < kappabeta> Huh.
13:29 < kappabeta> I wonder if they could enter/exit Nexus via wormhole jump points.
13:29 -!- Eva has quit
13:29 < kappabeta> I suppose this wouldn't be something anyone would be keen to test blindly.
13:29 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
13:30 * Eva flickers in and out like a crappy television set
13:30 < Thatwasademo> Maybe not with the entire ship, since I'm currently holding that the 6 rooms shown in VVVVVV were a cross section of sorts resulting from the crash landing
13:31 < Thatwasademo> and the actual ship is much bigger and may be slightly mindbending
13:31 < Eva> You should play a game called...
13:31 < Eva> Give me a sec
13:31 < Eva> Hadean Lands.
13:31 < Eva> The DSS soul eye strikes me as looking something like the Marcher from that.
13:32 < Thatwasademo> but if the D.S.S. Souleye crashed into Nexus I could totally see it ending up with a similar cross section ending up coming through a wormhole jump point for a slightly safter crash landing than Dimension VVVVVV
13:34 < kappabeta> haha
13:34 < kappabeta> If they crashed into Nexus and popped in through one of Barrayar's wormholes everyone would be SUPER ALARMED
13:34 < Aestrix> xD
13:34 < kappabeta> Except for Leaf, who would be like, "Sigh."
13:34 < kappabeta> Clearly this should happen? XD
13:34 < Aestrix> Pfffffff
13:35 -!- Eva has quit
13:35 < sonatagreen> Barrayar only has the one wormhole, doesn't it?
13:35 < Thatwasademo> Actually there's another possible idea: maybe the difference between a crash and a good landing is that in a good landing you get to choose what part of the ship enters the dimension?
13:35 < kappabeta> Barrayar only has the one *active wormhole route*
13:36 < sonatagreen> Hopefully a good landing also avoids causing dimensional instability
13:36 < kappabeta> They have an unknown probably nonzero number of dead-end wormhole exits from their system
13:36 < Thatwasademo> Well yeah
13:37 < kappabeta> where "dead-end" means "no one has successfully found a route to a habitable or already-inhabited system through this route"
13:37 < Thatwasademo> The actual designated "landing module" includes equipment to safely and cleanly merge/split with other dimensions
13:37 < Thatwasademo> ... actually, now what I'm imagining is both of these things being true
13:38 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
13:38 -!- Eva has quit
13:39 < Thatwasademo> Like, there's a landing module that does that and has a long-range teleporter and all, but on Nexus for reasons of security or paranoia about instability or convenience they just get Leaf / the Barrayaran government to build a teleporter themselves
13:40 < kappabeta> XD
13:40 < kappabeta> what do the barrayarans get out of this?
13:40 < kappabeta> like leaf will go pretty far to help someone who needs it, but if building the teleporter is expensive and won't leave them with any lasting advantages, they might have a hard time justifying it to the budget committees
13:40 < kappabeta> especially since the budget committees aren't supposed to know about other dimensions
13:40 < Thatwasademo> Checkpoints? Possibly spike samples if they can convince the Souleye's crew that trading weapons is a good idea?
13:41 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
13:41 < kappabeta> describe checkpoints?
13:41 < Thatwasademo> You walk past them, then die. You are now at the checkpoint.
13:41 < kappabeta> hahahahahahaha
13:42 < kappabeta> they're super interested in this!
13:42 < Thatwasademo> well of course
13:42 < kappabeta> how hard are they to produce? do they have such a thing as an underlying principle?
13:42 < Thatwasademo> it's a complete counter to accidental death
13:42 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
13:43 * Eva hums.
13:43 < Thatwasademo> Current personal model is that they work for the same reason touching a spike from the side kills you.
13:43 < kappabeta> is this reason describable?
13:43 -!- Eva has quit
13:43 < Kel> "just because"?
13:43 < Thatwasademo> Viridian et al. haven't actually managed to duplicate them, but they took quite a few with them while they were leaving VVVVVV
13:43 < kappabeta> aha
13:44 < kappabeta> I'm wondering whether or not checkpoints Count As Technological
13:44 < Thatwasademo> I think they don't count as magic
13:44 < kappabeta> such that for example Miles could have Cam conjure a few hundred
13:44 < kappabeta> or get a team to reverse-engineer them for mundane production
13:44 < Thatwasademo> but I'm not sure if a demon could conjure them (or Spikes for that matter)
13:44 < kappabeta> also, what qualifies as "walking past" one? I'm very much not able to produce a real-world visual in my head here
13:45 < Thatwasademo> Probably touching an interface on them
13:45 < kappabeta> aha
13:45 < Thatwasademo> They look plenty technological
13:45 < Thatwasademo> though there *was* a point in VVVVVV where you had to explicitly avoid checkpoints
13:45 < kappabeta> oh?
13:45 < Teceler> back
13:45 < Thatwasademo> in order to get a trinket
13:46 < sonatagreen> so maybe walking across them, or passing through their area of effect
13:46 < Thatwasademo> There was a disintegrating platform blocking a moving platform that you needed, in a room that was split in two different sides
13:46 < Thatwasademo> If you die in a room the room doesn't reset
13:46 < Thatwasademo> So you had to touch the checkpoint in that room and avoid checkpoints, spikes, and enemies, until you got to the other side of the room
13:47 < Thatwasademo> Probably an area of effect
13:47 < Thatwasademo> It's a little strange to translate the 2d mechanics into 3d yeah
13:48 < Thatwasademo> But I'm thinking that was an area of effect that just happened to be covering safe hallways when it was least convenient
13:49 < Thatwasademo> In any case, it's visually apparent when you've activated a checkpoint
13:50 < Thatwasademo> ... So I've thought about it and checkpoints should definitely be demon-conjurable.
13:51 < sonatagreen> Do I understand correctly that checkpoints don't rewind time? You checkpoint at 1:00, die at 2:00, now it's 2:00 and you're at the checkpoint and you remember the last hour.
13:51 < Thatwasademo> They definitely don't rewind time
13:51 < Thatwasademo> Since otherwise that trinket couldn't work
13:52 < sonatagreen> And how do they interact with your inventory? If you grab something between checkpointing and dying, do you still have it when you respawn?
13:52 < Thatwasademo> And you remember what happened before you die somehow, since otherwise Viridian would be making the same stupid mistake over and over again
13:52 < Thatwasademo> You do in fact hang on to inventory items
13:52 < Thatwasademo> What counts as "inventory" might be an interesting question though
13:52 < Kel> Would it be possible to use it for item duplication?
13:52 < Thatwasademo> No.
13:53 < Thatwasademo> I know this because Trinkets remain both collected and not in their original position across deaths
13:53 < Kel> So it would disappear from your corpse's backpack or whatever and appear in your living body's backpack thing?
13:53 < sonatagreen> Does the corpse stick around?
13:54 < Thatwasademo> ... Actually, now I'm not sure about how checkpoints interact with corpses
13:54 < sonatagreen> It might be useful for item *destruction*, like if you want to get rid of a small amount of highly radioactive substance, you could make it into a bullet and shoot someone dead with it
13:54 < Thatwasademo> I know in VVVVVV your corpse disappears but I'm not sure if that's part of the game aesthetic or an effect of the checkpoint or what
13:54 < sonatagreen> I could argue that the checkpoint reclaims the corpse's mass-energy to rebuild your body with
13:55 < Thatwasademo> How would that help? They'd just wake up at the checkpoint with a radioactive bullet in their inventory
13:55 < sonatagreen> you don't normally wake up with a spike or w/e in your inventory
13:55 < sonatagreen> ?
13:55 < Thatwasademo> No, but those spikes remain there
13:55 < Kel> But the spike is still (probably?) where it was before, and not destroyed?
13:55 < Kel> nvm you said it
13:55 < sonatagreen> oh I see
13:56 < Thatwasademo> Yeah, either the bullet would fall to the ground or it would be in your pocket
13:56 < sonatagreen> I was thinking the weapon that kills you gets reset along with the wound
13:56 < sonatagreen> hm
13:56 < sonatagreen> you could use this for super fast post-surgery healing?
13:56 < Thatwasademo> Possibly?
13:56 < sonatagreen> cut someone open, implant pacemaker, slit their throat, now they have a pacemaker and no surgery cuts
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13:57 < sonatagreen> you could upgrade a checkpoint to automatically kill anyone who walks across it, so it functions as instant magic healing
13:57 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
13:57 < sonatagreen> in addition to checkpointing
13:57 < Thatwasademo> I love how we're sitting here discussing how to exploit the cure for all violent death
13:58 < Thatwasademo> as though that was necessary
13:58 < kappabeta> ...how does it decide how to rebuild you
13:58 < kappabeta> like in what condition do you come back
13:58 < kappabeta> i'm looking at miles's skeleton here
13:58 < Thatwasademo> ... I don't know.
13:58 < sonatagreen> ~magic~
13:58 < sonatagreen> (not "technically" magic, but basically magic)
13:58 < kappabeta> if it's magic it's NOT demon-conjurable XD
13:58 < kappabeta> <3
13:59 < sonatagreen> in the same way that the sonic screwdriver is basically a sufficiently advanced wand
13:59 < Thatwasademo> In VVVVVV you'd touch a Spike or Enemy, Viridian would frown, make a sad noise, blink a couple times, and disappear and reappear with his usual smile at the checkpoint.
13:59 < Thatwasademo> Any trinket collected would remain collected, meaning you could use death as a shortcut.
14:00 < Thatwasademo> That's all the canon information
14:00 < sonatagreen> "instead of dying, heal and teleport to checkpoint"
14:00 < Kel> Wait, maybe it couldn't be used for healing if it just restores you to the state you were in when you reached the checkpoint? If there isn't a health meter or something that gets refilled in-game?
14:00 < Thatwasademo> There is no health meter
14:00 < sonatagreen> Also, in that case it would be harder to justify not letting item duplication work
14:00 < Thatwasademo> Enemies, by the way, are mobile objects that are deadly to the touch no matter where you touch them, just like Spikes.
14:01 < Thatwasademo> I'm still not seeing how you would duplicate an item
14:01 < Kel> So if someone wanted to reduce the amount of fire involved with instant healing, you could say they just restore you to how you were
14:01 < Kel> when you crossed it
14:01 < sonatagreen> checkpoint, donate your hair to Locks of Love, die, repeat
14:01 < Teceler> but you keep items
14:02 < Thatwasademo> Okay, sure, maybe hair duplication is a thing
14:02 < Thatwasademo> It kind of also raises the question of "when are you dead"
14:03 < MTC> It seems like all of these item duplication objections could be solved by thinking of the effect as “teleportation plus instant healing”, so no material is added or removed.
14:04 < Thatwasademo> Yeah, but would that mean hair you cut and donated between touching the checkpoint and dying just disappears?
14:04 < Kel> Or gets re-attached to your head?
14:05 < Thatwasademo> If I wanted to be cruel I could say that checkpoints only work on deaths caused by pure harm
14:05 < Kel> Like your inventory goes back to your inventory
14:05 < Thatwasademo> er, items made of pure harm, like Spikes
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14:05 < Teceler> ...I was going to say hair was a small exploit, but you could do the same thing with, for example, blood
14:06 < Thatwasademo> Yeah, but that would be kind of strange... all around the world dust and blood and such just flicker and disappear because you died
14:07 < Teceler> you could maybe restrict it to 'things that have to be replaced to bring you back to full health', so hair and skin flakes and such wouldn't count
14:07 < Thatwasademo> Hmm. What's the normal human rate of hair, blood, and nail growth?
14:07 < Kel> 1.25 cm of hair/month
14:07 < Kel> 3 mm nail growth/month
14:08 < Thatwasademo> more to the point, what's the normal hair/nail/blood/etc attrition rate
14:09 < sonatagreen> One-shot high-speed interstellar couriers. Checkpoint at the destination, take a jumpship to the message origin, wait for someone to need to send a message, put on a backpack full of hard drives, die, deliver.
14:09 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
14:09 < Thatwasademo> I'm thinking a way to make this consistent might be to have body parts deallocate at about or slightly faster than either the time it would take them to grow back or the time it would take them to be replaced under normal conditions
14:09 < sonatagreen> Or for bulk freight, run a bunch of people through a checkpoint and then ship *the checkpoint* to the destination.
14:10 < kappabeta> pfffffffffffffffffffffff
14:10 < Kel> hahaha
14:10 < Teceler> hee
14:10 < Thatwasademo> Those are definite allowed-by-canon exploits of having sparsely placed checkpoints in a wide area
14:11 < Thatwasademo> because of the Trinket in Prize for the Reckless
14:11 < Thatwasademo> http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/506952434768220782/3CCA287615B8F13133C7EEFC1A705D1FCB3B0B95/
14:11 < kappabeta> what
14:12 < Thatwasademo> ^pictured: that trinket
14:12 < sonatagreen> the purple circles thing?
14:12 < Thatwasademo> yeah
14:12 < sonatagreen> and there's no way back out of that spot without dying?
14:13 < Thatwasademo> you have to touch the checkpoint in the lower area then make it through several other rooms to get to the upper area without dying or touching any other checkpoints
14:13 < Thatwasademo> You can make it out of that spot without dying, but using death to travel is the point
14:13 < sonatagreen> oic
14:14 < Thatwasademo> Because you died in the same room as the checkpoint, the room doesn't reset
14:14 < Thatwasademo> So yes, it's definitely in the spirit of the canon to use death as a shortcut
14:15 < Thatwasademo> There are also a ton of trinkets which it is far easier to collect and die than to collect and return safely
14:16 < Thatwasademo> I was about to say something about moving the checkpoint but then I realized that having a checkpoint on the ship wouldn't make sense unless you could intentionally move a checkpoint while it's still online
14:16 < kappabeta> haha
14:17 < Thatwasademo> So yes, you could install a checkpoint in a ship for transportation purposes
14:17 < Thatwasademo> To install it somewhere else would mean taking it offline and removing all of its associations though
14:18 < Kel> can canon checkpoints be destroyed?
14:18 < Thatwasademo> No, because nothing can be destroyed except disintegrating platforms and those come back anyway
14:18 < kappabeta> XD
14:18 < kappabeta> Wait, taking a checkpoint offline...?
14:18 < sonatagreen> If your most recent checkpoint gets taken offline, do you revert to your next-last checkpoint, or are you mortal again?
14:18 < kappabeta> yeah that's my question also
14:19 < Thatwasademo> You're mortal again
14:19 < kappabeta> well that, uh, makes checkpoints way less useful
14:19 < sonatagreen> and there's no indication of whether you're mortal unless you die
14:19 < sonatagreen> less *reliable*
14:19 < sonatagreen> so yes
14:19 < kappabeta> XD
14:19 -!- Eva has quit
14:19 < sonatagreen> but still useful
14:19 < Thatwasademo> I'd imagine they're quite durable
14:20 < Thatwasademo> but yes, it would be possible to intentionally permanently kill someone by sabotaging their checkpoint
14:20 < Thatwasademo> Well, I'm actually not sure about this
14:20 < Thatwasademo> There is no definitive canon answer
14:21 < Thatwasademo> And it would certainly be more in keeping with the tone to let the checkpoint before that remember you
14:21 < kappabeta> Yeah, such is also my feeling
14:21 < Thatwasademo> But on the other hand, it is impossible to determine simply by looking at a VVVVVV gamestate what the second-to-last checkpoint activated was
14:22 < kappabeta> but the gamestate doesn't need to know that because in the game checkpoints are literally indestructible? XD
14:22 < Thatwasademo> Perhaps they don't wipe their memory when offline
14:22 < Kel> So you'd only be in trouble if you died while it was offline, right? or it would just bring you back whenever it came back on?
14:23 < Thatwasademo> I'm presuming they need some sort of infrastructure, electricity at a bare minimum
14:23 < kappabeta> I feel like we maybe need to know how the checkpoints collectively decide which one gets to remake you
14:23 < Thatwasademo> In that case you would be revived at the checkpoint's earliest convenience
14:23 < Kel> What if a bunch of people used the same checkpoint and died at the same time, would it just be one at a time in the order of who went through the checkpoint?
14:24 < Thatwasademo> Which I have just decided is also the rule for if two people die close enough to each other in time that they should telefrag each other
14:24 < kappabeta> haha
14:24 < Thatwasademo> as I was typing that you asked the question
14:24 < Thatwasademo> It would be one at a time in the order that the checkpoint is aware of their deaths
14:25 < Thatwasademo> So more or less in the order that they died, barring circumstances that prove there is no universal simultaneity.
14:26 < Thatwasademo> I'm thinking the signal should be either lightspeed or lightspeed-epsilon too
14:26 < sonatagreen> That causes problems
14:27 < Thatwasademo> And perhaps the procedure for activating one's first checkpoint is a little more involved, to help explain how they know when you die and retrieve your memory
14:27 < sonatagreen> unless information is somehow stored with the *person*?
14:28 < Thatwasademo> which information are we talking about here
14:28 < sonatagreen> so like, when you die your implanted checkpointing module sends out a signal to the last-used checkpoint station
14:28 < sonatagreen> information about which is your last checkpoint and whether you're dead
14:28 < Thatwasademo> Sends out a signal or stops sending a signal
14:29 < Thatwasademo> whichever causes fewer problems
14:29 < sonatagreen> ooh, I like that
14:29 < sonatagreen> although blocking the signal causes duplication
14:29 < Thatwasademo> to fit with the "checkpoints revive you when they come back online"
14:29 < sonatagreen> I think you have to assume it's unblockable either way
14:30 < Thatwasademo> mumble mumble magic won't even know it's lightspeed until they try using death as a shortcut for interstellar travel
14:30 < sonatagreen> and probably you have to assume that *something* is always on, like a subspace checkpoint network or something
14:30 < sonatagreen> otherwise, if you die when your checkpoint is offline, where is your pattern stored?
14:30 < Kel> Heh, it might not actually be a shortcut, given wormholes!
14:31 < kappabeta> ...yeah, wow, checkpointing would be a LONGcut for interstellar travel in nexus
14:31 < sonatagreen> oh well, it's still cheap fast within-system travel
14:31 < kappabeta> do you really need lightspeed here XD
14:32 < Thatwasademo> Actually, better idea might be that if you die and your last touched checkpoint doesn't exist, you revive at a checkpoint chosen by chaotic factors
14:33 < kappabeta> haha, nice
14:33 < kappabeta> i like that
14:33 < Thatwasademo> So the signal is always sent to the entire network
14:33 < Thatwasademo> And the network only remembers you touching one checkpoint
14:33 < kappabeta> But I have questions about how the lightspeed limitation on the signal works
14:33 < Thatwasademo> But if that checkpoint doesn't exist anymore the network just panics and dumps you somewhere random
14:34 < Teceler> the obvious question there is what subset of checkpoints is it looking at, is it going to randomly dump you in another world or something
14:34 < kappabeta> Like what happens if you touch a checkpoint, teleport across the galaxy, touch another checkpoint, teleport back, and die
14:34 < Thatwasademo> Probably somewhere near where you died
14:34 < Thatwasademo> hmm
14:34 < Thatwasademo> actually why does it even need to be lightspeed, speaking of teleport
14:34 < sonatagreen> this is why I was saying information is stored with the person
14:35 < Thatwasademo> the checkpoints and checkpointing implant have tiny data-only teleporters
14:35 < Thatwasademo> so no need for a lightspeed limit
14:36 < kappabeta> how robust is the checkpointing implant?
14:36 < Kel> What if you just cut out the part of someone that contains the implant; would it assume they were dead?
14:36 < kappabeta> are there conceivable circumstances in the wide wide multiverse that could cause it to stop functioning
14:36 < sonatagreen> how about, if the implant is damaged, you die and respawn at the checkpoint
14:36 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
14:36 < Thatwasademo> Robust enough to survive its person taking a LIES to the face
14:36 < kappabeta> lies?
14:36 < Thatwasademo> sure yeah
14:37 < Thatwasademo> there is an Enemy that is literally just the word LIES
14:37 < Thatwasademo> http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/vvvvvv/vvvvvv-5.png
14:37 < Thatwasademo> random gis there
14:37 < kappabeta> LIES
14:37 < kappabeta> XD
14:37 < Thatwasademo> flowing toward the screen from another room
14:37 < Thatwasademo> And by survive I mean be damaged and trigger respawn, of course
14:38 < Teceler> if you, say, wind up in a star, that is a good example for relatively mundane extremities
14:38 < Teceler> although if it being damaged just triggers respawn...
14:38 < Thatwasademo> Destruction of implant is probably actually the best definition of death we could use here
14:38 < Kel> Oooh! What about getting caught in a wormhold jump to hell?
14:38 < Kel> *wormhole
14:38 < kappabeta> ahahahaha
14:38 < kappabeta> yeah
14:38 < Teceler> ...but then what happens if it's, for example, in someone's arm and that gets cut off? Does that result in die-and-respawn, too?
14:39 < Teceler> or is it impossible to remove without killing the person?
14:39 < Thatwasademo> Which means if you would survive something but your implant wouldn't, you teleport back to the checkpoint yes
14:39 < Kel> What if a demon duplicates a specific implant, outside of someone's body?
14:39 < Thatwasademo> It should be impossible to remove without making the person vanish
14:39 < kappabeta> hahahahahaha
14:40 < Teceler> probably it doesn't work without being hooked up to that person
14:40 < Teceler> is the easiest way to solve that
14:40 < Thatwasademo> I'm thinking the condition is probably signal-off rather than signal-on
14:40 < sonatagreen> I'm thinking demons can't make a specific person's data, in the same way they can't make a computer with a particular state of ram
14:40 < sonatagreen> *of data in ram
14:40 < Teceler> that would also work
14:41 < Teceler> if it's transmitting a specific signal, can anything else track that?
14:41 < kappabeta> signal-off rather than signal-on: meaning, checkpointing is a deadman switch? XD
14:41 < Thatwasademo> yes
14:41 < Thatwasademo> If one did manage to keep and sustain a duplicate checkpoint implant you could use that to kill someone
14:41 < kappabeta> hmm in that case what happens if you take a wormhole jump at *all*
14:42 < kappabeta> if anything's going to interfere with your signal that will
14:42 < Teceler> because if anything else can then you can just track someone by tracking their implant and that seems bad
14:42 < Thatwasademo> but it would probably be very difficult to do that without cloning the person
14:42 < sonatagreen> and you can't respawn without dying because mumble mumble no-cloning theorem
14:42 < kappabeta> and it'd be super inconvenient if checkpointed people exploded every time they took a wormhole jump
14:42 < Thatwasademo> like the implant would die on not seeing a biometric match
14:42 < Teceler> ...what happens if you make an ordinary clone of someone with an implant? Does that just not copy?
14:43 < kappabeta> "ordinary clone" of what variety?
14:43 < sonatagreen> ordinary clone is like biological and stuff
14:43 < Thatwasademo> An ordinary clone would have distinguishing biometrics
14:43 < sonatagreen> basically a much younger identical twin
14:43 < Teceler> biological clone, yeah. I was wondering if that would be sticky that way.
14:43 < Kel> What if you do something to change someone's biometrics a lot and rapidly, but don't actually kill them?
14:43 < Teceler> but the differing biometrics makes sense
14:43 < sonatagreen> kel, the implant might false-positive and kill you
14:43 < sonatagreen> *them
14:43 < Thatwasademo> The implant either keeps up or the person vanishes
14:44 < Kel> So could you turn into a diamond!vampire?
14:44 < kappabeta> Wormholes tho?
14:44 < Thatwasademo> I'd imagine vampire venom acts slowly enough for the implant to keep up
14:45 < Thatwasademo> I'd imagine wormholes can't interrupt a teleporter
14:45 < Thatwasademo> I'd imagine wormholes can't interrupt a teleporter so they wouldn't be able to interrupt a checkpoint system
14:45 < Thatwasademo> ... the up arrow quotes the last line, it doesn't edit it
14:45 < Thatwasademo> this is not skype
14:45 < kappabeta> <3
14:46 < Teceler> what happens if someone with an implant gets uploaded?
14:46 < Kel> Could a checkpoint be made in 5 space, such that people who died after making a wormhole jump through that checkpoint would be created in 5 space?
14:46 < Teceler> I imagine it doesn't interact well, but how does it not do so
14:46 < Thatwasademo> They probably fork unless they deregister the implant as part of the uploading process
14:46 < sonatagreen> if it's a destructive upload, implant triggers and prevents the upload. if nondestructive, fork as normal.
14:47 < sonatagreen> or what demo said.
14:47 < MTC> What about becoming a Buffyverse vampire? Would that trigger it?
14:47 < Thatwasademo> It probably would
14:47 < sonatagreen> I think you're biologically dead for a couple hours before rezzing, so probably
14:47 < kappabeta> re: checkpoints in 5-space: I don't think you can put, like, *things* in 5-space
14:47 < Thatwasademo> You'd be dead enough to cease powering the implant, so the implant would die
14:47 < kappabeta> not permanently anyway
14:49 < Kel> what if you had like (sorry edge case) a demon jump-pilot create a checkpoint in 5-space right where the ship was? Can demons make stuff in 5 space?
14:49 < Thatwasademo> I really like the idea that it's not your death that causes you to respawn but the implant's death btw
14:49 < Teceler> how does the implant cause the person to vanish if it's disconnected?
14:49 < kappabeta> the way I conceptualize 5-space, demons can *put* things there but have no special power to cause the things to *persist*
14:49 < Thatwasademo> SCIENCE MAGIC
14:49 < Kel> Hahaha
14:49 < Teceler> ha
14:50 < Kel> I've been thinking of it as it's one thing but it has a little network connecting to the rest of your body?
14:50 < Teceler> (I would just say: it's impossible to remove without killing the person in the process, but that works too)
14:50 < Teceler> or that
14:50 < Thatwasademo> It's impossible to remove without destroying
14:50 < kappabeta> and the default result of matter being in 5-space is for it to be violently disassembled and spit back into 3-space as miscellaneous radiation
14:50 < Thatwasademo> If you destroy it without performing the necessary mumbo jumbo to deregister it, the associated person vanishes
14:51 < Kel> Could you deregister someone else's implant?
14:51 < Thatwasademo> Only inasmuch as consent is not a fundamental object
14:52 < Thatwasademo> It is quite plausible that using a checkpoint could make some beings less durable in the short term, by the way
14:52 < kappabeta> hmm>
14:52 < kappabeta> ?
14:52 < kappabeta> what do you mean by less durable in teh short term
14:52 < Thatwasademo> Like a vampire would normally take quite a lot to kill
14:52 < Teceler> but destroying the implant...
14:52 < Thatwasademo> but it wouldn't take nearly as much to make them vanish
14:52 < kappabeta> haha
14:53 < Teceler> but on the other hand that's kind of get-out-of-jail free card if they're in that bad shape, isn't it?
14:53 < Thatwasademo> Well yeah
14:53 < Teceler> under most circumstances, at least
14:53 < Thatwasademo> It also means they're less effective at offensive military action
14:53 < Aestrix> On the other hand it could be the opposite
14:54 < Aestrix> If you stick their checkpoint in a jail cell
14:54 < Teceler> well, it depends on how much it takes to break it
14:54 < Aestrix> And have something kill the implant on their way out
14:54 < Thatwasademo> How would you stick their checkpoint in a jail cell though
14:54 < Aestrix> ~Magic?~
14:54 < Aestrix> ~Science Magic?~
14:54 < Thatwasademo> well i guess magic would do it
14:54 < Teceler> build one around it?
14:54 < Thatwasademo> ha
14:54 < Aestrix> Or that
14:54 < Aestrix> That too
14:55 < Teceler> relevant to that question is whether you can forcibly register someone to a checkpoint
14:55 < sonatagreen> canon seems to imply yes
14:55 < Thatwasademo> You can definitely forcibly register someone to a particular checkpoint
14:55 < Aestrix> I thought yes
14:55 < sonatagreen> since there's the bit where you have to avoid checkpoints
14:55 < Teceler> ...ooh, and how do time dilation effects interact?
14:55 < Teceler> yeah, that makes sense
14:55 < Thatwasademo> It would take extended physical access to forcibly register someone to the checkpoint system
14:55 < sonatagreen> so just install a checkpoint in the cell and put them on it
14:56 < Kel> And then lethal force would be encouraged for breakout attempts, before they could get to another checkpoint?
14:56 < Thatwasademo> they might then also have the option of dismantling that checkpoint
14:56 < Thatwasademo> so that they end up SOMEWHERE RANDOM
14:56 < Teceler> like, if someone winds up past the event horizon of a black hole. Obviously that eventually kills them unless they're indestructible already, but
14:57 < Thatwasademo> Black-hole type effects are already known to activate checkpoints from a Captain Viridian post
14:57 < Teceler> ah
14:57 < Teceler> I missed that, sorry
14:58 < Thatwasademo> since one time she fell into some instability
14:58 < Thatwasademo> and he's not quite sure whether there's still another of him out there
14:58 < Thatwasademo> but has decided not to think about it
14:58 < Teceler> huh
14:58 < sonatagreen> oooh
14:59 < Thatwasademo> World tone would recommend against letting terrible things happen to that Viridian
15:00 < Teceler> can someone be removed from the checkpoint system as a whole, or is that impossible?
15:00 < Teceler> ha
15:00 < Thatwasademo> I decided that it's probably possible when someone asked about destructive uploading
15:00 < Thatwasademo> Viridian et al. would have no idea that it is possible or how to do it, of course
15:01 < Thatwasademo> But it would probably be a similar process to registering in the first place
15:01 < Teceler> obviously you could get a fork out, but is the body stuck -- ah
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15:02 < Thatwasademo> pistachi0n just posted and confused me in AH
15:02 < sonatagreen> I am also confuse
15:04 < Thatwasademo> kappa, since this is so fun, I am definitely pointing the Souleye at Nexus
15:04 < kappabeta> hee
15:04 < kappabeta> :D
15:05 < Thatwasademo> if i end up making a dreamwidth account then you might have to deal with dracula's curse
15:05 < kappabeta> ??
15:05 < Thatwasademo> sorry, castlevania 2 reference
15:05 < kappabeta> XD
15:05 < Thatwasademo> i am too used to making them due to my name is kaz
15:06 < Thatwasademo> what a horrible night to have a curse
15:06 < sonatagreen> Yes, I much prefer to be cursed on Thursday nights.
15:06 < Aestrix> I'm a tuesday person
15:06 < kappabeta> ??? XD
15:06 < Thatwasademo> i am implying that i will curse you though and you will have to lament your choice of night
15:07 < kappabeta> hahaha
15:07 < Thatwasademo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tNQXwjAlI0
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15:08 < Thatwasademo> Also, it strikes me that wormholes can probably be handled similarly to a feature that appeared in VVVVVV
15:08 < Thatwasademo> since some rooms "wrap around" at most of their exits
15:09 < kappabeta> hmm?
15:09 < Thatwasademo> as far as checkpoint/teleporter interactions go that is
15:09 < Thatwasademo> which is to say: checkpoints ignore that, nothing to see here
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15:11 < Thatwasademo> also, Aestrix, I will remember that you prefer to be Cursed on tuesdays
15:12 < Thatwasademo> and totally rig the encounter decks tomorrow to curse you
15:12 < Aestrix> ...
15:12 < Thatwasademo> (not actually doing that)
15:12 < Aestrix> Thanks.
15:12 < Aestrix> Ever so much.
15:12 < Aestrix> You're a dear.
15:12 < Thatwasademo> <3
15:12 < Aestrix> Here, let me heap my adoration upon you.
15:12 < Aestrix> ...
15:12 < Aestrix> What was that?
15:12 < Aestrix> There is none?
15:12 < Aestrix> Such a pity
15:13 < Aestrix> (<3)
15:13 < Thatwasademo> (I might actually intentionally delay posting an update if you end up being cursed late on a Monday though)
15:14 < Aestrix> xD
15:14 < Aestrix> Watch, it'll become a brick joke
15:15 < Thatwasademo> i just added a line to my notes
15:15 < Aestrix> <3
15:15 < kappabeta> Oh my God. "The Many Worlds Forum: where the standard procedure for comforting a panicking friend includes 'remove the local listening devices.' " http://manyworlds.boards.net/thread/26/misfortunes-mistakes-worlds?page=6&scrollTo=2852
15:15 < kappabeta> Leaf is nearly peeing himself with laughter.
15:16 < Aestrix> I kind of love Doctor Realist now. xD
15:16 < kappabeta> Same.
15:16 * Teceler goes to look
15:16 < Teceler> Tyche: But then how am I supposed to keep an eye on her?
15:16 < Aestrix> xD
15:17 < Thatwasademo> i couldn't help but post
15:17 < kappabeta> i think dr. realist just misposted as firefly
15:18 < Aestrix> Same
15:18 < Aestrix> But he rolled with it with an edit xD
15:18 < kappabeta> hee
15:18 < Aestrix> Or she, I don't actually know which the writer is
15:19 < Thatwasademo> "please remove all LIES from the vicinity" is a sentence that would make sense for either Viridian or Maggie to say
15:19 < kappabeta> omg XD
15:19 < Teceler> hee
15:19 < Aestrix> xD
15:24 < Thatwasademo> Many Worlds Forum: "Were I a betting woman, I would put my money on 'something weirder.'"
15:24 < Aestrix> :)
15:24 < Thatwasademo> courtesy of Inkspot, same thread
15:24 < Aestrix> Inkspot is so glad she can finally talk
15:25 < Aestrix> I can ~display her personality~
15:25 < Aestrix> To people that are not Leaf
15:26 < Thatwasademo> oh, is Inkspot hahanope?
15:26 < Aestrix> Yep!
15:26 < Thatwasademo> you could have been really mean and really funny there and said "hahanope"
15:26 < Aestrix> As her screenname?
15:27 < Thatwasademo> no, in response to my question
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15:27 < Aestrix> Oh xD
15:27 < Aestrix> <3
15:27 < Thatwasademo> leave it ambiguous as to whether you were saying yes or no
15:27 < Aestrix> I could have, it's true, but I am a kind soul
15:27 < Aestrix> And I didn't think of it
15:27 < Thatwasademo> More the latter than the former, I'm sure
15:27 < Aestrix> I am. A kind. And gentle. Soul.
15:27 < Thatwasademo> Not that the former isn't true
15:27 < Teceler> hee
15:28 < Aestrix> <3
15:28 < Thatwasademo> You are a kind and gentle soul who failed to think of a pun
15:28 < Aestrix> MAYBE
15:28 < Aestrix> YOU CAN'T PROVE IT
15:28 < Aestrix> I can think of LOTS of puns!
15:28 < Thatwasademo> <Aestrix> And I didn't think of it
15:28 < Aestrix> ....
15:28 < Aestrix> Past self.
15:28 < Aestrix> You suck
15:28 < Teceler> XD
15:28 < Thatwasademo> <3
15:29 < Aestrix> <3
15:29 < Teceler> re: Bugs, it could be Skitter, does that count as weirder? :P
15:29 < sonatagreen> <Thatwasademo> It's super easy to fake quotes
15:29 < kappabeta> removing skitter from the vicinity seems like an excellent way to reduce stress tbh
15:29 < Thatwasademo> well yes
15:29 < Teceler> yeah
15:29 < Thatwasademo> but Mother Starlight is also logging the channel
15:30 < Aestrix> Erase the evidence
15:30 < Thatwasademo> "I think I can say fairly definitively that that's weird. I've lived in a dimension of masked entities who speak only in poetry, you know." i think i love dr realist now
15:30 < Aestrix> Yeah he's pretty great xD
15:31 < Teceler> Tyche is somewhat annoyed about the offtopicness, sorry all
15:32 < Thatwasademo> that's understandable IC
15:32 < Teceler> "If there's any furniture you dnot recognize, move it outside the room just incase. If there's a piece of furniture that looks sorta like a person in a suit and sunglasses holding a handwritten sign that says smething like "I am a desk," it is actually probably a secret agent, and you should move that piece of furniture outside too." heee
15:33 < Aestrix> Yeah that was funny xD
15:33 < Thatwasademo> ha
15:35 < kappabeta> Wise words.
15:35 < kappabeta> I bet Leaf's going to mark that one to Simon's attention to get a laugh otu of hiim.
15:36 < Thatwasademo> hey so uh just in case other people are tracking this better than I am, who has Viridian not mentioned enough out of his crew
15:37 < Thatwasademo> or rather who has he mentioned enough
15:37 < Thatwasademo> wait nm Verdigris is perfect here
15:39 < Aestrix> Ugh I guess I should go hash out an explanation in the backstage thread for characters and settings.
15:39 < Aestrix> What are the relevant things people need to know about Facet?
15:41 < Aestrix> Elves. Magic. Totalitarian government?
15:41 < kappabeta> facet: magic system...?
15:41 < kappabeta> yeah
15:42 < Aestrix> I will have the facet magic system explained with Inkspot's account, I think, because Prism honestly has nothing to do with magic
15:42 < Aestrix> Or is that too confusing?
15:42 < Kel> I don't think so? If at some point it is explained why Prism doesn't react to Inkspot being someone else from their world?
15:43 < Aestrix> Inkspot is going to avoid the subject
15:43 < Aestrix> Oh, right xD
15:43 < Aestrix> Yes, that, I will explain that, misread what you wrote
15:44 < Kel> back in ~30 min
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15:46 < Adelene> *whines about OOC concerns with a thing*
15:46 < Aestrix> ?
15:46 < Teceler> hm?
15:46 < sonatagreen> you're in the right place to do that
15:48 < Adelene> Lurker is PMing with Leaf. She wants to offer to hang out at his place and do helpful destressing stuff for him. The lurkery way of saying this runs *smack* into a euphemism for sex. And people tend to tease pretty viciously when the acey person says a sex thing.
15:48 < kappabeta> Humans :/
15:49 < Teceler> that
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16:02 < Thatwasademo> well i'm sleep
16:03 < Aestrix> Good night!
16:03 < Aestrix> (Hi sleep I'm Aestrix)
16:07 < kappabeta> aestrix ilu
16:07 < Aestrix> <3
16:24 < Kel> Good night!
16:24 < Kel> Also I'm back!
16:24 < Aestrix> Welcome back!
16:24 < Kel> Thanks!
16:25 < sonatagreen> hiii
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17:09 < kappabeta> ~~quiet time~~
17:09 < Kel> Hi?
17:09 < Hadassah> Whoever runs Dotted Lines is a MWF Interuniversal Treasure
17:09 < Hadassah> Hiyas
17:10 < kappabeta> agree
17:10 < Kel> EEEeeeeeeeeeeee thank you!
17:11 < Kel> Are there things specifically I should try to do more or less of?
17:12 < Hadassah> You deserve it. And people are worried about Hadassah being mistreated " Like, say, it only activates if you are kidnapped by someone who is not from your *own* world?"
17:13 < Hadassah> Naw, its pretty much perfectly what I'd love to see from a resident of Night Vale, and Steve is a perfect choice for someome who would be seditious enough to read. You are doing great.
17:13 < kappabeta> leaf has just PMed Dotted Lines with a ~totally innocent and aboveboard~ question about whether or not he would like to fucking flee his terrifying world temporarily or permanently
17:13 < kappabeta> XD
17:14 < Aestrix> xD
17:15 < Hadassah> I am not upt ot speed on the WTNV series (only about forty five episodes in) but I am pretty sure that the Faceless Old Lady Who Secretly Lives Inside Your Home would probably report his abscence.
17:15 < Kel> Well done! That was very Innocent and Aboveboard
17:15 < kappabeta> :D
17:15 < Aestrix> Can I see a copy? Now I'm curious
17:15 < Kel> I think vacations to other worlds aren't actually illegal
17:15 < kappabeta> "Nothing urgent on my plate right now. Take your time recovering. (Would it help you at all to spend some time in another world?)"
17:15 < Teceler> I think that was one of the things Thorn's been trying to get an idea about, but obviously hasn't prioritized because she didn't have a way
17:16 < Teceler> oh, that is very innocent and aboveboard, very nice
17:16 < kappabeta> Miles. ^^
17:16 < Aestrix> Aw, Leaf.
17:16 < Kel> To which the reply is, yes but he doesn't want to leave Janice in his terrifying world if he goes
17:17 < Adelene> Lurker is going to have her hands fuller than she was expecting, huh. ^^
17:17 < kappabeta> hee
17:17 < Teceler> there is probably an innocent and aboveboard way to ask about that :P
17:17 < Aestrix> Assumingly she can come too!
17:17 < Hadassah> Would the World-Tree Coalition count as a Vague Yet Menacing Secret Organization?
17:17 < kappabeta> If he manages to get this across, Leaf could totally like, ~offer him and his whoever a brief sightseeing tour in exchange for his help~
17:17 < kappabeta> I feel like the World-Tree Coalition is fairly aboveboard and not especially menacing so far
17:18 < Hadassah> True
17:18 < Kel> It probably would well enough for him to see something about it, but Dotted Lines is currently terrified of the sky
17:18 < Kel> oops not the person, sorry, looking up while outside?
17:19 < kappabeta> huh?
17:19 -!- Kel has quit
17:19 < Teceler> oh, Dotted Lines
17:19 < kappabeta> aha
17:19 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
17:19 < Hadassah> Ha, welcome back. Also I am out for the evening. Have a good night all!
17:19 < Aestrix> Good night!
17:19 < kappabeta> bye hadassah!
17:20 < sonatagreen> The WTC is not especially sinister or menacing, but it is vague and shadowy in that Leaf is being privacyish about who's in it
17:20 < Teceler> good night
17:20 < Kel> by!
17:20 < sonatagreen> Goodnight.
17:20 < Aestrix> That is true
17:20 -!- Hadassah has quit
17:20 < Aestrix> I mean, Rae's in it and he's pretty up front about it now
17:20 < kappabeta> Leaf is being privacyish partly because it didn't technically HAVE any members when he posted
17:20 < Kel> I accidentally logged out by hitting backspace without selecting text. But I wrote the word for the thing that stars are seen in, which is also the name of a chat member
17:20 < Aestrix> But he has no idea who the heck he's working with
17:20 < Kel> hahaha
17:20 < kappabeta> it's just that he, personally, had a lot of friends
17:20 < kappabeta> who may each join or decline as is their preference
17:20 < Teceler> ...Leaf XD
17:21 < Teceler> that is definately a Miles thing to do
17:21 < Kel> I am a member of an elite mercenary force, and also an interworld coalition to prevent evil
17:21 < kappabeta> XD
17:21 < Aestrix> <3
17:23 < Teceler> Firewall may consider allying with the World-Tree Organization, but their main representative on the forums is currently curled up in a corner.
17:23 < kappabeta> XDDDDDDDDDD
17:23 < Kel> Aw.
17:23 < Aestrix> Awww <3
17:24 < Teceler> Tyche probably passed that development along when she saw it, though
17:25 < Kel> Was this before or after ze threw a canvas over her?
17:25 < Kel> (DL responded to try to get the point across about having vulnerable loved ones.)
17:25 < Teceler> Tyche did not actually find a canvas, that was a heavy blanket as per Andrew's suggestion
17:25 < kappabeta> leaf responded ^^
17:26 < Teceler> And I mean Tyche passing the development along to Firewall-as-an-organization, not Thorn particularly, who /probably/ noticed that part of the post, but, well
17:26 < Aestrix> What made Thorn freak out?
17:26 < Aestrix> You probably mentioned it but I completely forgot
17:27 < Aestrix> Because occasionally I am terrible.
17:27 < Teceler> Leaf's post was kind of the last straw
17:27 < kappabeta> XD
17:27 < Aestrix> Awwww
17:27 < Kel> Aww! Poor Thorn!
17:29 < Teceler> What Tyche said to Andrew when he asked: "I think the proximate cause was Leaf's post; we've been worrying about extradimensional threats here and that was with only 'something happened to that one poster' as a reason. / But she's been more and more stressed recently and I'm not sure of all the reasons why. Something about someone getting kidnapped, and the thing with Cassandra came up earlier."
17:29 < Kel> Oh hey! She was having a conversation with DL about his recent kidnapping!
17:29 < Teceler> (she's apparently missing the whole thing with 'not being paranoia enough', but that's a good chunk of it)
17:30 < Teceler> *paranoid
17:30 < Teceler> yes, although she's not /quite/ as worried about that now since he seems to be recovering
17:31 < Teceler> I hope Dotted Lines isn't too worried?
17:31 < Kel> and he is now maybe going to get a chance to leave his universe
17:32 < Aestrix> Leaf's going to end up with his house as an interdimensional hub
17:32 < Kel> Dotted Lines is worried about Thorn, but can't think of much to do aside from giving specific advice to Tyche about how to deal with nervous breakdowns
17:32 < Aestrix> And it's hilarious
17:32 < Kel> Yes
17:32 < kappabeta> XD
17:32 < Teceler> well, it's a big house
17:33 < Teceler> Thorn is going to be quite happy about that when she recovers and hears about it.
17:33 < Teceler> assuming it happens
17:33 < Aestrix> Someone goes to retrieve coffee. Walks past the nest of pixies and the god who is obsessing over crosswords and arguing with the definitions.
17:33 < Kel> hahaha
17:33 < Teceler> ...XDXD
17:33 < kappabeta> <3
17:34 < Aestrix> Walks past the room where someone gives birth to a flesh-thing. Dodges a fireball.
17:34 < Aestrix> ~All in the ordinary routine~
17:34 < Teceler> XD
17:35 < Aestrix> I similarly imagine Rae's domain containing lots and lots of strange refugees from various flavored slavery.
17:35 < kappabeta> yeah
17:35 < kappabeta> speaking of which, Cordelia should visit Rae
17:35 < Aestrix> Oh right, yeah, that thing
17:35 < Aestrix> That thing that is definitely going to end with her having all his blessings and possibly acolytehood
17:36 < Aestrix> Because she's Cordelia Naismith
17:36 < kappabeta> Naturally.
17:36 < Kel> Would that be close enough to count for the question "is your mother a god?"
17:36 < kappabeta> is that a question that gets asked a lot?
17:36 < Aestrix> Nah
17:36 < kappabeta> no i don't imagine it would
17:36 < Aestrix> I mean, not unless she betrayed Rae and ascended
17:36 < Aestrix> By killing him
17:37 < Kel> I don't *think* she would do that though
17:37 < Kel> just a vibe
17:37 < Aestrix> It's really not her style, no xD
17:37 < kappabeta> oh hey so if you betray a god and steal their power
17:37 < kappabeta> do you get like
17:37 < kappabeta> THEIR power
17:37 < kappabeta> or just the "is a god" property for yourself
17:38 < Aestrix> I mean you get like.... Their domain?
17:38 < Aestrix> You do not get your blessings pre-picked from what the god had
17:38 < Aestrix> Or their acolyte power
17:38 < Kel> Probably not their followers, unless you're really similar.
17:38 < kappabeta> do you get their same landscape type
17:38 < Aestrix> Yeah, you do
17:38 < kappabeta> XDDDDDD
17:38 < Aestrix> But you can tweak it to your liking
17:38 < kappabeta> tweak like how
17:39 < Aestrix> So a forest god could have a dark and scary forest of black trees and purple leaves and sadness
17:39 < Aestrix> And then you kill them and take their stuff
17:39 < kappabeta> XD
17:39 < Aestrix> And you can turn it into a ridiculous technicolor deciduous forest.
17:39 < Aestrix> But it still needs to be ~foresty~
17:39 < Aestrix> Trees of some kind need to be present, but you can twist that if you're clever.
17:40 < Aestrix> Rae actually did that by adding underground aquifers.
17:40 < kappabeta> and are you just stuck with that forever XD
17:40 < kappabeta> hee.
17:40 < Aestrix> Yep
17:40 < kappabeta> hmm
17:40 < kappabeta> what if a god murders another god
17:40 < kappabeta> can that happen
17:40 < kappabeta> and do you get dual-typing
17:40 < Kel> Did Rae ascend? I thought he'd just happened?
17:40 < Aestrix> Rae's been a god for a while, he was born a god
17:40 < Aestrix> There aren't any mechanics set up for what happens when a god kills another god by acolyte-method
17:41 < Aestrix> I think you'd get dual typing.
17:41 < Kel> But gods can become other gods' acolytes, right?
17:41 < Aestrix> And twelve blessings and two powers
17:41 < kappabeta> nice.
17:41 < Aestrix> Gods can, it just doesn't happen xD
17:41 < kappabeta> XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
17:41 < Aestrix> Because uh
17:41 < Kel> Except when they're cuddly gods!
17:41 < Aestrix> Yes!
17:42 < Aestrix> Because it's way easier for one god to kill another god via acolyte method instead of a mortal doing it
17:42 < kappabeta> I think Eala and Vio have a standing arrangement that if one of them is betrayed and there's no other way to save them, the other one can step in and take it.
17:42 < kappabeta> oh?
17:43 < Aestrix> I am kind of sketchy on how ascending works but it is a thing that takes time
17:43 < Aestrix> And it involves desecrating some holy land so the god can't touch you while you work
17:43 < Kel> I kinda vaguely thought it required the acolyte to desecrate one of the god's holy places?
17:43 < Aestrix> Yeah
17:44 < Aestrix> I don't think it's just one spot, though, I think it's a bunch of 'em.
17:44 < kappabeta> could eala and vio's arrangement *work*
17:44 < Aestrix> Mmm
17:44 < kappabeta> without them having to desecrate each other XD
17:44 < Aestrix> I think yes
17:45 < kappabeta> :D
17:45 < kappabeta> excellent.
17:45 < Aestrix> I mentally imagine it as ripping your own god's heart out, and if they do not want their heart ripped out they will do everything in their power to NOT HAVE THAT HAPPEN
17:45 < kappabeta> hee
17:45 < Adelene> It seems like it would work with the aesthetic that a good could just give godhood to an acolyte, if they didn't mind that that would kill them.
17:45 < Aestrix> Hmmm
17:46 < Aestrix> Yeah, you're right
17:46 < Aestrix> Canon!
17:46 < Aestrix> Thing that can happen now!
17:46 < Adelene> ^^
17:46 < Kel> :)
17:46 < Aestrix> <3
17:46 < kappabeta> hahaha
17:46 < kappabeta> ...brain: "So what happens if you give a god some form of restorative immortality"
17:46 < kappabeta> "can they now hand godhood out like candy"
17:47 < Aestrix> Uh
17:47 < Aestrix> Nnnno
17:47 < Aestrix> I am going to go with no
17:47 < Adelene> Goodhood and aliveness are not that closely related I'd think.
17:47 < Aestrix> Yeah
17:47 < Adelene> Or if they are you just can't keep an ex-god alive at all.
17:47 < Aestrix> Hmm
17:47 < Aestrix> Considering how torching works...
17:47 < kappabeta> huh?
17:48 < Aestrix> I am thinking of torching in particular for this xD
17:48 < Adelene> Rae doesn't strictly speaking have a body, torching doesn't apply.
17:48 < Aestrix> Point
17:48 < Kel> Imagine his whole domain torching
17:48 < kappabeta> hee.
17:48 < Aestrix> FIRE EVERYWHERE
17:48 < kappabeta> XD
17:48 < Adelene> heh.
17:48 < Aestrix> Everyone in the domain: "OH FUCK."
17:48 < Teceler> XD
17:48 < kappabeta> I think gods would have to be specialcased for torching.
17:49 < Aestrix> Mhm
17:49 < Kel> brb need to walk neighbors' dog
17:49 < Aestrix> And it's not like their manifested forms particularly need torching
17:49 < Aestrix> It'd be convenient
17:49 < kappabeta> But the admin/keeper can *certainly* cause a god to be a renewable resource, it's just that it's up to you how that cashes out exactly and how it interacts with godhood distribution
17:49 < Aestrix> Yeah xD
17:49 < Aestrix> I think it depends very highly on how the restoration works
17:50 < Aestrix> If it restores godhood along with life then yes, but if it's just life I would mortalify the god
17:50 < Aestrix> Because that's a word
17:50 < kappabeta> The keeper could probably decide that to her liking unless you want a particular person's godhood to be *extremely* singular
17:51 < kappabeta> such that it would consolidate to a single individual if they were copied
17:51 < Aestrix> That would be tidier, honestly.
17:51 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
17:51 < Aestrix> And I suspect the Keeper can just ~grant~ Rae's type of divinity
17:51 < kappabeta> hee
17:51 < Aestrix> Once she understood how it worked
17:51 < sonatagreen> ooh
17:51 < kappabeta> yeah, she'd have to spend a while figuring that shit out though
17:52 < Aestrix> Mhm
17:52 < Aestrix> And then people could pick their own domains and godify. xD
17:52 < sonatagreen> could *Lurker* grant divinity?
17:52 < kappabeta> ...ooh.
17:52 < kappabeta> Is a divinity a thing that can that?
17:52 < kappabeta> I like.
17:52 < Aestrix> I.... Genuinely have no idea
17:52 < sonatagreen> I suspect it might help if the target was already blessed
17:53 < sonatagreen> so that they had prior interaction with the magic/paradigm
17:53 < Aestrix> Maybe. I seriously have no clue
17:53 < sonatagreen> like the proper database fields exist on their character sheet
17:53 < Aestrix> Pfff xD
17:53 < Aestrix> <3
17:53 < Aestrix> That is fair
17:54 < Aestrix> I'm not sure godhood's a thing lots of people would want, thoughy
17:54 < Aestrix> I mean, on one hand, genuine shot at immortality and loads of power
17:54 < Aestrix> On the other hand, you now need worshipers badly and are also a place
17:54 < kappabeta> XDDDDDDDD
17:54 < Aestrix> But on the OTHER other hand, you can tweak your manifested form to your hearts content.
17:54 < kappabeta> Leaf'd take it.
17:55 < kappabeta> Leaf can acquire worshippers.
17:55 < Aestrix> And on the OTHER OTHER other hand, congratulations you can't ever have kids
17:55 < kappabeta> oh?
17:55 < kappabeta> Just how much can't you?
17:55 < kappabeta> Do manifested forms have DNA at all?
17:55 < Aestrix> Uterine replicators would not solve the problem
17:56 < Aestrix> They do not, it's a weird system of animated matter
17:56 < kappabeta> I mean, uterine replicators would solve the shit out of the problem as long as you had a DNA sample on file.
17:56 < Aestrix> Right, yeah
17:56 < Aestrix> If you got a sample before goding you're good
17:56 < kappabeta> Of which Miles has, as he has pointed out, enough to build a horrifying squishy Miles-effigy.
17:56 < kappabeta> XD
17:56 < sonatagreen> There's actually a word for godding, it's apotheosis
17:56 < Aestrix> Or if you got a demon from Inferno to make a sample of you from before godding.
17:56 < Aestrix> I will use that <3
17:56 < kappabeta> <3
17:57 < kappabeta> So the kids thing isn't much of an issue for Leaf.
17:57 < kappabeta> Like, it WOULD be one
17:57 < kappabeta> but it is hella solved.
17:57 < Aestrix> xD
17:57 < Aestrix> Yes <3
17:58 < kappabeta> <3
17:58 < Aestrix> Oh god. Miles ascends via keeper and then meets Isalian.
17:58 < kappabeta> XD
17:58 < Aestrix> HEAD NO
17:58 < Aestrix> (Bet they'd acolyte each other.)
17:58 < kappabeta> of course they would, if they could figure out what acolyte powers they wanted
17:58 < kappabeta> XD
17:59 < kappabeta> Interdimensional coalition of Miles-gods.
17:59 < kappabeta> Countdown until they find a way to cheat at the worshipper requirements.
17:59 < Aestrix> ... I don't know if my reaction to that is incoherent squeeing or screaming.
17:59 < kappabeta> XD
17:59 < Aestrix> I can't decide.
17:59 < Adelene> *pops in* I don't think Lurker'd be able to god someone with her current planned skillset.
17:59 < kappabeta> <3
17:59 < sonatagreen> can gods worship each other? does that count?
17:59 < Aestrix> Mmmm
17:59 < Aestrix> Nope
18:00 < kappabeta> We've been discussing deityhood as, like, a thing that can be transferred, so
18:00 < Adelene> The thing about there needing to be a slot on the character sheet is correct.
18:00 < kappabeta> aha
18:00 < Aestrix> Heh <3
18:00 < kappabeta> ...you can theoretically collect more than one deityhood
18:00 < kappabeta> could Carp magic *multiply* a deity
18:00 < Aestrix> Ooo.
18:00 < kappabeta> like, give them multiple copies of their own
18:00 < kappabeta> XD
18:01 < Aestrix> Rae: "I AM THE GOD OF EVERYTHING DESERT RELATED YOU HAVE NO IDEA I CAN DO IT ALL."
18:01 < kappabeta> hee.
18:01 < Adelene> Mmmaybe.
18:01 < Teceler> ...what happens if someone tries to usurp a multiple-deity?
18:01 < Aestrix> I think you would need to usurp them multiple times
18:01 < Aestrix> For each deity power
18:01 < kappabeta> hahahahahahaha oh my god :D
18:01 < kappabeta> so to speak :D
18:01 < Aestrix> <3
18:01 < Kel> Hahahaha! I'm back!
18:01 < Aestrix> Welcome back!
18:01 < Kel> Thanks!
18:01 < Adelene> It may be relevant here that Lurker's going to be looking for Pantheon gods to import to Carp, btw.
18:02 < kappabeta> heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
18:02 < kappabeta> ...also if you can multiply godhoods on a person and need to steal them individually then you can safely distribute it
18:02 < kappabeta> :D
18:02 < Aestrix> I vaguely now want to invent a flower goddess who is really awesome in some weird way.
18:02 < kappabeta> ooh yay flower goddess
18:02 < Adelene> So in the very long term if you want her to find the right sort of weird edge case god to scry on and copy, that can happen.
18:03 < kappabeta> do teh thing aestrix
18:03 < Adelene> Among other things.
18:03 < Aestrix> Hee
18:03 < Kel> Yes do it! Field of flowers, flowery forest, underwater flowers, other?
18:03 < Aestrix> Hmmmm
18:04 < Aestrix> There are lakes in this domain and they are absolutely covered in flowered plants xD
18:04 < kappabeta> Now I'm imagining that somewhere in Rae's world there is a god who shanked another god for their deityhood XD
18:04 < Aestrix> I think some kind of forest domain who is the GREATEST EDGE CASE OF ALL TIME
18:04 < Aestrix> Ahahaha
18:04 < kappabeta> or one who was in an eala-vio situation and then the thing happened
18:04 < Kel> Spiders god
18:04 < Aestrix> "You. Hey you. GIVE ME YOUR DIVINITY."
18:04 < kappabeta> tell me more about edge case forest
18:04 < kappabeta> XD <3
18:05 < sonatagreen> forest god shanked lake god, now has a sort of marshy domain with trees growing out of the water like Channelwood
18:05 < Adelene> Thinking about it what seems more likely to me is that Lurker would be able to create diety-ness out of nothing *as its own freestanding thing*, probably resulting in a brand new baby deity.
18:05 < Aestrix> I think she has decided to like. Make her domain the prettiest garden the world has ever seen
18:05 < Adelene> Which is pretty creepy.
18:05 < kappabeta> hahahaha
18:05 < Aestrix> Baby Deity: ".... Mommy?"
18:05 < kappabeta> omg <3
18:05 < Aestrix> Li'l baby god.
18:06 < Adelene> Lurker: *blink* *blink* *ohgodsno*
18:06 < Aestrix> Ahahahahaha
18:06 < kappabeta> XD
18:06 < Teceler> XD
18:06 < kappabeta> wee god!
18:06 < kappabeta> so small!
18:06 < Aestrix> Like the holy shrub!
18:06 < kappabeta> XDDDDDDDDD
18:07 < Aestrix> I think some gods would consider Lurker their mother in that situation, but many wouldn't.
18:07 < Aestrix> "I am a god. I don't need you. Go away."
18:07 < Adelene> Lurker would be substantially less creeped out at that eventuality.
18:07 < Aestrix> Hee
18:08 < Aestrix> But the visual of the kobold with a god kid of flowers is really cute!
18:08 < Adelene> ^^
18:08 < kappabeta> ~*~multiplying deities~*~
18:08 < Aestrix> "Mommy!" *drops flower garland on Lurker* "I love you <3"
18:09 < kappabeta> pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
18:09 < Aestrix> God: *has flowers spring up around Lurker as she walks*
18:09 < Kel> Aww!
18:09 < Teceler> hee
18:09 < kappabeta> XDDDDDDDDDD
18:09 < kappabeta> oh dear XDDDDDDDDDD
18:09 < Kel> Baby's first acolyte!
18:09 < kappabeta> fdjhfjdhfdf
18:09 < Aestrix> Heeeeee
18:09 < Adelene> If we want to multiply deities and the deityhood-as-conjurable-object format makes sense to Aestrix, it would make sense to me that doing that in a god's domain would double-deity them rather than making a new one.
18:09 < kappabeta> I support this interpretation
18:09 < Teceler> heeee
18:09 < Aestrix> Hmmm
18:09 < Aestrix> Yeah
18:09 < Adelene> Also, y'all are silly and adorable. ^^
18:09 < Aestrix> <3
18:09 < kappabeta> :D
18:10 < Aestrix> And if you do it in a place that has no deity you get a baby god
18:10 < Aestrix> With the tiniest domain
18:10 < Adelene> *nodnod*
18:10 < Aestrix> Huh. What would Rae multiclass godhood in?
18:10 < kappabeta> :D
18:10 < kappabeta> :D :D
18:11 < Aestrix> He's very - himself in my head, being desert/something else is weird to me
18:11 < kappabeta> oh hey so if you are a multiple deity, do you get your choice of domain types
18:11 < Aestrix> Hmmm
18:11 < kappabeta> He could just multiclass More Desert
18:11 < kappabeta> XD
18:11 < Aestrix> xD
18:11 < Kel> Maybe if you're an ascended deity
18:11 < Aestrix> Rae: "Yes hell I would like to multiclass from being a desert deity."
18:11 < Kel> and something else would be more *you*?
18:11 < Aestrix> Rae: "I would like more desert."
18:11 < Kel> hahaha
18:11 < Adelene> I could kinda see him doing desert/badlands or something, but yeah, desert/desert if that's not majorly inconvenient.
18:11 < Aestrix> Rae: "There is not enough desert in my desert."
18:11 < sonatagreen> hahaha
18:11 < Aestrix> Desert/badlands would work
18:12 < sonatagreen> I want to be forest/mountains
18:12 < sonatagreen> because Natural Resources
18:12 < Aestrix> Yeah <3
18:12 < sonatagreen> forest for logging and mountain for mining
18:12 < kappabeta> like, with the conjuring thing, is it the conjuror who chooses what landscape flavour the new deityhood is, or the recipient, or what
18:12 < Aestrix> Hmmm
18:12 < Aestrix> Conjurer, I'd say?
18:12 < kappabeta> A Miles would multiclass all of the landscapes for versatility, but would *start* with mountains.
18:12 < Aestrix> <3
18:12 < Aestrix> Heh
18:14 < Aestrix> .... Pffff Inavet ascending to godhood would shortly become 'Inavet has overthrown her government and is overseeing the transfer of power in a benevolent fashion.'
18:14 < kappabeta> XD
18:14 < Aestrix> 'Backed by smiting if you are a terrible person.'
18:14 < Kel> What would she be a god of?
18:14 < Aestrix> Hm
18:14 < Aestrix> She feels some kind of forest to me
18:15 < Aestrix> Though she would definitely multiclass
18:15 < kappabeta> (leaf has replied to dotted lines, hella dancing around the question of whether he is aiding DL in fleeing his hellhole of a town)
18:15 < Aestrix> And grab other stuff because she wouldn't particularly want to screw up the geography for no reason
18:17 < Kel> (I know DL cares a lot about his wife and stepdaughter, but I actually don't have a clear idea of what sort of people they are, and I think I probably couldn't RP them. Will that be a problem?)
18:18 < kappabeta> hmm
18:18 < Adelene> I'm inclined to say that a baby god's landscape is determined by where they're made.
18:18 < Aestrix> Yeah
18:18 < Aestrix> That sounds right
18:18 < kappabeta> I mean it'll mean we'll have to decide what happens on the visit rather than RPing it explicitly, I guess
18:18 < kappabeta> Or apply vigorous handwaving
18:19 < kappabeta> and only RP the bits where DL is interacting solely with Leaf
18:19 < Adelene> Or if Lurker magic'd herself a 'make baby gods' power (which she might, if lots of people want to be godded) she'd be able to specify the landscape that way.
18:19 < Kel> Okay that would work I think!
18:19 < Aestrix> Yeah
18:20 < Aestrix> I think if she is in a domain that belongs to a god she can specify
18:20 < Aestrix> But if she's in a place that has no god it defaults to the landscape she does it in
18:20 < Adelene> Carp magic is a little fiddlier than that.
18:20 < Aestrix> Oh?
18:21 < Aestrix> Hmm. Then specified by landscape until she gives herself a power to specify>
18:21 < Aestrix> ?*
18:21 < Adelene> Remember she can't cast directly, she has to make a magic item that generates the effect. She can be the magic item, but it's traditionally safer to cast on nonliving things unless you *need* the spell cast on something living, because of miscast issues.
18:21 < Aestrix> Ah, right
18:22 < Adelene> So her first thought is going to be to cast 'generate deityhood' on a rock and have the rock do it.
18:22 < Aestrix> Pffff
18:22 < Aestrix> All hail
18:22 < Aestrix> The holy pebble
18:22 < Adelene> Which means the spell can't take input from her mind once it's cast, and I kinda get the feeling that landscape is a little too fiddly of an idea to put in a rock.
18:22 < Aestrix> So maybe the rock itself can only specify one domain?
18:23 < Aestrix> You can make a rock of grant forest-domain divinity, but it can't let you become a volcano god?
18:23 < Aestrix> ... OH MAN.
18:23 < kappabeta> oh man?
18:23 < Aestrix> Flower goddess is going to be a volcano goddess.
18:23 < Adelene> Yeah, if she can put a landsape specifier on the rock at all the easiest way of doing that will be to just have a set one.
18:23 < kappabeta> hee
18:23 < Aestrix> Who said, "SCREW YOU BLOWING STUFF UP."
18:23 < kappabeta> <3
18:23 < kappabeta> <3<3<3
18:23 < sonatagreen> magma forges!
18:23 < Aestrix> Ahem, sorry, distracted, continue!
18:23 < kappabeta> :D
18:23 < kappabeta> <3
18:23 < Kel> Hey volcanos make for really fertile land!
18:23 < Aestrix> <3
18:24 < Aestrix> They do!
18:24 < Aestrix> That's what made me think of it!
18:24 < Adelene> It'd also be possible to have the rock have an extra button on it, so you could take it to a volcano and put it on the ground and press the button and have it learn 'volcano', and it'd make volcano gods until you pressed the button again.
18:24 < Aestrix> She will have hot springs and everything with be covered in flowers
18:24 < Aestrix> That'd be fine :)
18:25 < Adelene> But if Lurker casts the generate deityhood spell on *herself*, then she can specify the landscape type with each use, no problem.
18:25 < kappabeta> So does DL realize he is hella being offered asylum
18:26 < Kel> He's pretty sure he's being offered asylum, and is trying to accept it
18:26 < Kel> He's trying to ask all the questions he'd ask if he was planning for a 1-2 day visit though
18:27 < kappabeta> yeah
18:27 < kappabeta> and Leaf is trying to answer in as "by the way, you are hella being offered asylum" a way as possible while still maintaining ironclad plausible deniability
18:27 < kappabeta> I think he's succeeding :D
18:27 < Kel> yeah he's doing great!
18:27 < kappabeta> :D
18:27 < Kel> He was *also* trying to figure out if there are going to be any holidays soon they needed to bring emergency supplies for
18:28 < Kel> just in case
18:28 < kappabeta> haha
18:28 < Aestrix> xD
18:28 < Aestrix> Always bring emergency supplies for surprise holidays.
18:29 < Kel> Yes
18:29 < Kel> Plenty of clear plastic sheeting and antidotes, but there might be *extra stuff* they should bring
18:30 < kappabeta> pffff
18:34 < Kel> (I wish I knew what my brain thinks DL looks like. I'm trying to find him a face and I don't know what I'm looking for, except Not This)
18:34 < kappabeta> <3
18:34 < Kel> (He is in danger of becoming the Faceless Steve who Secretly Lives in Miles Vorkosigan's Home)
18:35 < kappabeta> omg XD
18:35 < Aestrix> xD
18:35 < Teceler> XD
18:35 < Aestrix> <3
18:42 < Aestrix> You know what I should do
18:42 < Aestrix> Find a facecast for Rae
18:42 < Aestrix> Because he is still really faceless.
18:42 < Kel> He is a *desert*
18:42 < Aestrix> Well, yes.
18:42 < Aestrix> But occasionally he is person shaped
18:42 < Kel> Do you have ideas for face specifications?
18:42 < Aestrix> Asian, scruffy.
18:43 < Aestrix> Everything else is hopeless flailing.
18:43 < sonatagreen> I think you should pick a specific desert to cast him as
18:43 < Aestrix> I did, though! Look at his MWF avatar :P
18:44 < Aestrix> That's basically how I imagine what his desert looks like
18:44 < Aestrix> With little shrubs.
18:44 < sonatagreen> oh right
18:45 < Aestrix> It's not all sand dunes, Rae dislikes that stereotype <3
18:45 < Kel> I have only once seen a desert that could even sorta be described as all sand dunes
18:45 < Aestrix> Yep
18:46 < Aestrix> I did my research, I am so proud of myself xD
18:46 < Kel> Desert stereotypes are *so weird* though. Like the other stereotype is that they are covered in saguaro cacti? No matter where they are in the world?
18:47 < Aestrix> Yeah xD
18:47 < Aestrix> Which is kind of hilarious, actually
18:47 < Aestrix> ~Everything is pointy~
18:47 < kappabeta> hahahahahaha
18:47 < sonatagreen> haha
18:48 < Kel> haha! I mean, there are *lots* of cacti, but they are not all the same one! And there are other plants!
18:48 < Aestrix> Yes <3
18:48 < Kel> Is Ken Leung close-ish? http://www.hollow-art.com/base/ken-leung-lost
18:49 < Aestrix> Sort of, but he doesn't have the Rae presence
18:49 < sonatagreen> I'd actually imagined Rae with sandy-colored hair because sand, but I'm not sure that comes in asian
18:50 < Kel> I think it does sometimes?
18:50 < Kel> I'll see what I can find
18:50 < Aestrix> I mean, there is not anything stopping me from making him another race, he's a god, he can be whatever color he wants to be, but I mentally parse him as asian because that is the main race on his continent and Rae's kinda lazy when it comes to cosmetics
18:50 < Aestrix> I mean, sometimes he does
18:51 < Aestrix> But Rae does a thing where he is super expressionless all the time. But the non-expressions mean different things, if you pay attention
18:51 < Aestrix> Which is sort of hard to find, I understand xD
18:52 < Kel> The actual problem seems to be that most of the actors I can find are neat teenagers
18:52 < Aestrix> <3
19:04 < Kel> Here's the least neat sorta-expressionless blond Asian guy I found on Hollow Art. He is very teenage, and still pretty neat. http://www.hollow-art.com/base/takizawa-hideaki
19:05 < Kel> For some reason, most of the blond Asian actors here seem to be teenagers who want to dye their hair
19:05 < Aestrix> Hmmm
19:05 < Aestrix> He is better than Ken Leung
19:06 < Aestrix> He doesn't need to be blonde xD
19:07 < Kel> Okay, I'll go through prioritizing expressionlessness and scruffiness
19:07 < Aestrix> Thanks! <3
19:08 < Aestrix> Actually now that I think about it Rae with blonde hair would be weird
19:08 < Aestrix> Just.
19:08 < Aestrix> So weird.
19:11 < Aestrix> You don't need to go hunting for him though, it's okay xD
19:11 < Aestrix> I will crawl off my lazy bum eventually and do it
19:11 < Kel> I am having fun for now!
19:12 < Aestrix> Okay! <3
19:12 < Aestrix> Then search away :)
19:12 < Kel> It is a very nice distraction from my complete inability to figure out what I think Steve looks like
19:12 < Aestrix> <3
19:15 < Kel> Brandon Soo Hoo has a lot of (I think?) fairly expressionless faces he makes? http://www.hollow-art.com/base/brandon-soo-hoo-dusk-till-dawn
19:16 < Aestrix> He does not scream, 'I AM RAEZENOTH PICK ME PICK ME,' but he doesn't scream that he's not, either. I will bookmark him for later
19:16 < Aestrix> Thank you <3
19:17 < Kel> You're welcome! I'll probably poke around a bit more, and then stop.
19:17 < Aestrix> That is fine <3
19:18 < Adelene> ...oh, right, I'm autistic.
19:18 < kappabeta> hm?
19:19 < Adelene> (The thing mot people mean by 'expressionless' is an entirely different thing than the thing my brain reports as 'expressionless'.)
19:19 < kappabeta> aha
19:19 < Adelene> Brandon Soo Hoo doesn't look expressionless in any of those, to me.
19:19 < Adelene> Like at *all*.
19:20 < kappabeta> *looks*
19:20 < Teceler> I see what you mean
19:21 < Aestrix> I mean, he's less expressionful than most people attempting to be Rae
19:21 < Aestrix> Which is better than most xD
19:21 < kappabeta> I read him as like... somewhat the "low facial movement" meaning of expressionless, but not the "lack of face-based communication" meaning
19:21 < Aestrix> Mhm
19:21 < Teceler> ah, that sort of makes sense
19:21 < Kel> yeah, that! That is why I chose him,
19:22 < Kel> (and also a lack of many Rae candidates)
19:22 < Adelene> He's *smaller* with his expressions, but to me that doesn't affect how present they seem.
19:22 < Aestrix> I am occasionally bad at explaining things, I apologize <3
19:22 < kappabeta> <3
19:22 < Aestrix> Kappa is aware of this flaw of mine
19:22 < kappabeta> XD <3
19:22 < kappabeta> i love you aestrix
19:22 < Adelene> No worries :)
19:22 < Aestrix> I get it wrong a lot but MAN DO I TRY! xD
19:23 < kappabeta> <3
19:24 < Kel> Is the smaller facial expression the definition you want or should I be looking for a different kind of face thing?
19:25 < Aestrix> Smaller facial expression, please <3
19:25 < Aestrix> Rae rarely smiles
19:25 < Aestrix> Usually only when games are involved, actually. Or Idania. xD
19:25 < kappabeta> hee
19:25 < Kel> Aw!
19:26 < Teceler> aw, Rae
19:26 < Aestrix> They are my platonic ship xD
19:26 < Kel> Rae/Board Games OTPP!
19:27 < Aestrix> Heeeee
19:27 < Aestrix> Rae/Idania/Board Games/Miles, OTP4
19:27 < Aestrix> The gamer group of doom
19:27 < Teceler> XD
19:29 < Aestrix> Though I suppose there's nothing stopping Idania/Miles from happening, but eh.
19:29 < Kel> Have they met?
19:29 < Aestrix> Leaf hasn't met Idania, nope
19:29 < Aestrix> I don't think any instance of either of 'em have met ever.
19:30 < Aestrix> So they might crash and burn for all I know
19:30 < Kel> Wait, I think Idania met god!miles
19:30 < Aestrix> Well, okay, yeah
19:30 < Aestrix> That
19:30 < Aestrix> I forgot xD
19:31 < Aestrix> They got along fine but weren't psychically screaming at each other that they were perfect together.
19:31 < Aestrix> Maybe I've been spoiled.
19:31 < Aestrix> *looks at Adarin/Bell*
19:31 < Kel> Hahaha
19:34 < kappabeta> pffffffff
19:35 < Teceler> Thorn, you need sleep, that is a thing, did you seriously pile sleep deprivation penalties on top of everything else? Gah.
19:37 < Kel> Aww. Poor Thorn.
19:37 < Kel> Which of the advice people gave to Tyche actually helped?
19:38 < Aestrix> I thought most of it was pretty solid
19:38 < Aestrix> But that is with me back here, behind the screen, not near Thorn xD
19:39 < Teceler> dim and quiet were apparently good ideas, and a blanket that wasn't so heavy worked better because she felt less trapped.
19:40 < Teceler> 'no loud noises' was probably good but I don't think would have come up
19:41 < Kel> and apparently remove bugs was not an option
19:41 < Aestrix> Alas
19:41 < Teceler> I think she might have had a little of the water, I'm not sure. Not much, if she did
19:41 < Teceler> well
19:41 < Teceler> Tyche did wind up shutting down most of the stuff, but,
19:42 < Teceler> she's an AGI, and she doesn't have a physical morph-thing she uses?
19:42 < Teceler> So to keep an eye on Thorn she did have to leave some on. But she made sure those were ones Thorn could see
19:43 < Kel> Okay so that's better than it could've been
19:43 < Teceler> I think all of it was pretty good advice except for the heavy blanket which made Thorn feel trapped, and that's a personal quirk thing
19:44 < Teceler> yeah. Plus, this is EP so everyone is used to having recording devices that aren't necessarily hostile around, they're part of the background, but.
19:48 < Kel> Unlike in Eventide, where all of the recording devices are absolutely friendly and there for everyone's protection
19:48 < Aestrix> Yes
19:48 < Teceler> of course! :P
19:48 < Aestrix> They are those things.
19:48 < Kel> Why else would they be there? :)
19:48 < sonatagreen> #the government is your friend
19:49 < Teceler> (augh, that /world/)
19:50 < sonatagreen> it's pleasantly surreal
19:50 < sonatagreen> i mean, not everything is friendly
19:50 < sonatagreen> but there's a sort of dreamlike quality to it
19:50 < Kel> I like the sorta poetry to it?
19:50 < sonatagreen> yeah
19:50 < Teceler> yeah
19:51 < Kel> And Desert Bluffs was, for a chunk of time, very much ~~my aesthetic~~
19:51 < Aestrix> Hee
19:51 < Teceler> But it is also sort of horrifying. And that's part of the interesting surrealism, but it is also a thing of its own
19:52 < Kel> yeah. I like that they seem to be addressing that piece by piece in some of the more recent ones though
19:52 < Teceler> I need to get caught up on that
19:54 < Kel> " - All WTNV Fans at some point
19:54 < Teceler> ha
20:01 < Kel> brb, off to have supper
20:02 < Teceler> enjoy
20:02 < Aestrix> <3
20:10 -!- linkhyrule5 has joined #backstage
20:10 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - Poor Leaf.
20:10 < linkhyrule5> :P
20:10 < kappabeta> hmm? XD
20:11 < linkhyrule5> "Hey, this guy you barely know wants to join your security council, and opens with 'I can generate arbitrary information and screw with organizations'"
20:11 < linkhyrule5> Yeah ME is going to be running around doing his own thing for a bit until he's proven himself, I just bet
20:12 < linkhyrule5> Oh, sonatagreen - it would be useful to have the irc address in its own thread
20:12 < linkhyrule5> it's going to be buried in the General Discussion THread soon
20:12 < kappabeta> yeah
20:12 < sonatagreen> I mentioned it in the about backstage thread, but I can splice it into the top of the chat logs thread too
20:13 < Teceler> maybe stick it at the top of the logs?
20:13 < Teceler> --that, ha
20:14 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - yeah to what?
20:14 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: Eva was in here wondering about your plots re: Lioncourt earlier
20:14 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - by the way, mild problem with exsurgent planning
20:14 < Teceler> hm?
20:14 < linkhyrule5> yeah, I'mtalkign to her on gtalk
20:14 < Teceler> okay
20:14 < kappabeta> mm?
20:15 < linkhyrule5> Basically, I just realized that sending the exsurgent virus over the forum is a /really dumb idea/ even if ME in particular is immune, because it might infect the /forum/
20:15 < linkhyrule5> and ME would notice that
20:15 < linkhyrule5> so now I need a new plot hook
20:15 < kappabeta> hee
20:15 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - yo usaid "yeah" after two things
20:15 < Teceler> XD
20:15 < linkhyrule5> not sure which
20:15 < Teceler> I was picturing him asking for it to be sent over pm, but the infecting the forum itself didn't occur to me.
20:15 < kappabeta> was re: putting irc address somewhere prominent
20:16 < linkhyrule5> ah
20:16 < linkhyrule5> WIth regard to Leafy things?
20:16 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - ideas? FIrst thing that comes to mind is that he asks for the location of a contained sample so he can scry it, and Thorn does the "you're a total maniac, I'm not going enable the destruction of another world" thing
20:16 < linkhyrule5> and then ME does it anyway
20:16 < Teceler> I'm thinking
20:16 < Kel> I am back!
20:17 < Aestrix> Welcome back!
20:17 < Kel> Thanks!
20:17 < kappabeta> "With regard to Leafy things?" - what with regard to which leafy things?
20:17 < Kel> linkhyrule5 re: "Hey, this guy you barely know wants to join your security council, and opens with 'I can generate arbitrary information and screw with organizations'"
20:17 < Kel> Is this ME or DL?
20:17 < kappabeta> haha
20:17 < Teceler> ...ha!
20:17 < kappabeta> DL's totally on the trusted list
20:17 < Teceler> I mean, she might ask if he would take a look at the virus because they are trying to work things out but she isn't likely to try without having something she thinks he might want
20:18 < kappabeta> I'm writing a post in the worldtree thread rn
20:18 < linkhyrule5> kel - ME
20:18 < kappabeta> Posted re: ME
20:18 < linkhyrule5> yah
20:18 < linkhyrule5> yay
20:19 < Teceler> yeah, but that description fits DL pretty well too XD
20:19 < linkhyrule5> loool
20:19 < linkhyrule5> Teceler -
20:19 < Teceler> ME is talking to Tyche, at least if he ever responses, we might be able to spiral from there
20:19 < Teceler> hm?
20:19 < linkhyrule5> Does Thorn have enough information to want to contact ME ye?
20:19 < linkhyrule5> Oh, uh, did Tyche reply to me and I didn't notice? Derp
20:20 < Teceler> ...have you posted about his magic system while I wasn't watching most of the forum because everything shows up as new for Tyche?
20:20 < Teceler> or, well, the thing in the worldtree thread you described, hm
20:21 < Teceler> if Firewall ends up deciding to work with Worldtree (which, I have no idea which way they will jump there), it would probably come up
20:22 < Teceler> and I think Tyche responded, I might have forgotten to hit submit but I don't think so
20:22 < linkhyrule5> Not much. Just the bit about the creation myth
20:22 < linkhyrule5> I'm goingto get that magic post up today or tomorrow tho
20:22 < linkhyrule5> It's just, well
20:22 < linkhyrule5> Long.
20:22 < Teceler> you should set up notifications to email you when you get a pm, that made it much easier for me to keep track
20:22 < linkhyrule5> 'Cause like everything else to do with Entelechy, it is weird and complicated :P
20:22 < Teceler> yeah
20:24 -!- PDV has quit
20:25 < linkhyrule5> Oh, she responded but it seemed kind of ending-notes to me
20:25 < linkhyrule5> I'll think of somethign to say
20:26 < Teceler> it's fine if you don't, but you were asking about plot-hooks, so
20:26 < linkhyrule5> Plot hooks are good
20:26 < Teceler> there are things he could ask about there
20:26 < linkhyrule5> I'll think of something
20:27 < linkhyrule5> You know what
20:27 < Teceler> what?
20:27 < linkhyrule5> I'm just going to set the world-scry now
20:27 < linkhyrule5> and start bugging Grigori for Gauntlet things
20:27 < Teceler> XD
20:28 < linkhyrule5> For future notes - the world-scry basically just tells him the state-of-the-world, general facts about its existence, local laws of physics, major events
20:28 < Teceler> if he scrys Eclipse at the moment orienting by forum-members he is going to get Thorn asleep in the corner of a dim room and some kind of server
20:28 < Teceler> ah
20:28 < linkhyrule5> I mean, it goes /through/ forum members
20:28 < linkhyrule5> he'll get Thron asleep, and then he'll jump away about a second later
20:28 < Teceler> but it doesn't focus on them?
20:28 < linkhyrule5> or less
20:28 < linkhyrule5> Nah
20:28 < linkhyrule5> They're conduits
20:28 < linkhyrule5> He might accidentally catch Miles in the shower or soemthing, that's pretty much the worst that could happen
20:29 < linkhyrule5> ... oh, though
20:29 < linkhyrule5> Uh
20:29 < linkhyrule5> I think he'd almost certainly find out Scion.
20:29 < kappabeta> uh?
20:29 < Teceler> hm?
20:29 < Teceler> oh
20:29 < kappabeta> haha
20:29 < linkhyrule5> It'd be hard not to
20:29 < Teceler> ...that could be a problem
20:29 < linkhyrule5> Indeed
20:29 < linkhyrule5> I'll talk that over with Undrained's player
20:29 < Teceler> you should ask whoever plays the related account about that
20:29 < linkhyrule5> and emptytext
20:29 < Teceler> and find an excuse to put it at the end for now
20:29 < Kel> Are both Undrained and EmptySeat MTC?
20:30 < Kel> Or just EmptySeat?
20:30 < linkhyrule5> No idea
20:30 < linkhyrule5> I don't think theyr'e the same player though
20:32 < Kel> Anyway, I'm pretty sure they're the same universe, so you'd want to consult both of them
20:32 < Teceler> Pretty sure they're both in Worm-based universes, at least
20:36 < linkhyrule5> yeah
20:36 < linkhyrule5> that's what they were implying
20:39 < linkhyrule5> Oh, so, Teceler, Aestrix, DanielH, Adelene, Thatwasademo - are you keeping any major world-scale secrets that ME should somehow not find out?
20:39 < Teceler> hm
20:39 < linkhyrule5> I'm just going to go down the list in order of approvals, basically
20:39 < Aestrix> I mean, Inkspot isn't in particular.
20:40 < Aestrix> But she's from Prism's world, is an elven fugitive that is fighting the shitty government, and the shitty government is shitty in lots of ways
20:40 < linkhyrule5> He'd probably pick up that they're from the same world, then
20:40 < Teceler> Cassiel's universe has a lot of complicated stuff which is partly 'this is up in the air because I haven't decided where he is in his timeline'
20:41 < Aestrix> For example: immortality to people in charge of shitty government is gained by fate-worse-than-deathing several individuals
20:41 < linkhyrule5> Can we just say "he knows it, whatever it is" and not actually address it until you decide, or is there more of a thing to worry about?
20:41 < Teceler> probably
20:41 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix: Charming. Yeah, that's going to put Prism up a few notches on the list
20:41 < linkhyrule5> Eclipse is fine, yes?
20:41 < Teceler> I think so, yup
20:42 < linkhyrule5> ... you know, ME could always ask _Tyche_ for exsurgent samples
20:42 < linkhyrule5> or at least "please tell me where one is to be found"
20:42 < Aestrix> Prism or Inkspot or Facet, the world?
20:43 < Aestrix> You said Prism, Inkspot's got next to nothing to do with Prism now that she's got her own account xD
20:43 < Teceler> Tyche is going to go 'seriously /what/' but that could kick off the plot if you want to
20:44 < Teceler> Tyche is not as paranoid as Thorn, but it's the exsurgent virus, asking for samples is /utterly bizarre/ at best
20:45 < sonatagreen> I forget what's been said IC, it might be deducable from public information that there are samples on Earth
20:45 < linkhyrule5> Facet
20:45 < Aestrix> Aha, thanks
20:45 < linkhyrule5> There are, but it's also deducible that Earrth is a chaotic mess
20:45 < linkhyrule5> he'd rather not do that if he didn't have to
20:45 < sonatagreen> good point
20:46 < linkhyrule5> controlled environments! :P
20:46 < Teceler> The thing with Cassiel's universe is depending on when and which branch it is, it might ping on ME's worlds-that-need-saving meter. --I think I said something about the various potential problems in pm earlier
20:46 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - What do you think? I'm fine with either way. I get the impression that THorn is the "main character" but either way's good with me
20:46 < linkhyrule5> Right ,yeah
20:46 < linkhyrule5> It'll ping, but nothing there pings on the level of CV or Keter, so it'll wait either way
20:46 < Teceler> yup, that makes sense
20:48 < kappabeta> CV?
20:48 < Teceler> Tyche... just kind of... popped up and was all 'hi, I exist' at me
20:48 < linkhyrule5> Captain Viridian
20:48 < linkhyrule5> lol
20:48 < kappabeta> aha
20:48 < linkhyrule5> his world is the one that's decaying into nothingness
20:48 < Aestrix> What's ME's current list of worlds to un-awful in order from first to last?
20:48 < Aestrix> If you've gotten that far, I mean
20:49 < linkhyrule5> Not perfectly, but
20:49 < linkhyrule5> CV, Keter, Cape if he finds out about Scion
20:49 < linkhyrule5> Facet is right after that, I think.
20:49 < linkhyrule5> Facet, then some mix of Night Vale (forgot the name), Carp, and what's the other one with the obnoxious conspiracy...
20:49 < Kel> Eventide, Keter?
20:50 < linkhyrule5> Eventide is Night Vale, thanks
20:50 < Aestrix> Keter's second :)
20:50 < Aestrix> Keter is a worse hellhole than Facet xD
20:50 < Teceler> the Worm-verse is being called Haywire, I think, at least by Undrained
20:50 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, pretty much
20:50 < linkhyrule5> Ah
20:50 < linkhyrule5> Haywire, then
20:50 < linkhyrule5> Also emptyseat's
20:50 < linkhyrule5> I think that's Cape
20:50 < linkhyrule5> Those are al lthe time-sensitive oh gods why worlds
20:50 < Teceler> hee
20:50 < Aestrix> <3
20:50 < linkhyrule5> Facet is pretty much next after the critical "the world is about to /literally end/"
20:51 < Aestrix> xD
20:51 < Aestrix> Inkspot: "HELL YES, HELP ME WITH THIS, C'MON."
20:52 < linkhyrule5> ME: "Kind of busy trying to evacuate a planet before it turns purple!
20:52 < linkhyrule5> Not as in is colored purple!
20:52 < Teceler> Eclipse is pretty stable at the moment, and while a cascade failure-thingy could potentially happen, I am not planning to kick one off :P
20:52 < linkhyrule5> Turns into the concept of the color purple!"
20:52 < Teceler> purple?
20:52 < Teceler> ...ah
20:52 < Aestrix> Inkspot agrees :P
20:52 < Aestrix> Just ~horrifying government~
20:53 < Aestrix> So when ME offers help she'll happily accept
20:53 < linkhyrule5> Juuuust atad
20:53 < linkhyrule5> oh good
20:53 < Teceler> obnoxious conspiracy, obnoxious conspiracy... we need a chart for all these worlds
20:53 < kappabeta> XD
20:53 < Aestrix> Or...
20:53 < Aestrix> A spreadsheet.
20:53 < Teceler> why has no one made one of those yet, do I have to do it myself :P
20:53 < Kel> Has anyone already?
20:53 < Teceler> yeah, I was thinking spreadsheet, that was not coherent
20:53 < Teceler> not that I've heard about, has someone?
20:54 < Aestrix> I haven't heard about it
20:54 < Aestrix> Also Kappa and I have a joke about how our solution to things is making a spreadsheet, you were coherent to me <3
20:55 < Aestrix> Anyway, if you need any information about any of my characters or worlds, just ask
20:55 < kappabeta> ~*~spreadsheets~*~
20:56 < Aestrix> ~~*~spreadsheets~*~~
20:56 < linkhyrule5> loool
20:56 < Teceler> what should go on a spreadsheet. World names, characters in them, magic systems...
20:56 < linkhyrule5> oh dear gods
20:56 < Aestrix> How many spreadsheets have we made, Kappa?
20:56 < kappabeta> So Many.
20:56 < linkhyrule5> Well.
20:56 < Aestrix> Yeah, that's about right.
20:56 < linkhyrule5> I think "the forum itself" has just moved to the top of that list.
20:56 < Kel> conspiracies, major problems, science level?
20:56 < Teceler> ...what happened?
20:56 < linkhyrule5> admittedly, not on any near timescale.
20:56 < linkhyrule5> Astra Nephthys is an Excrucian.
20:57 < linkhyrule5> http://nobilis.wikia.com/wiki/Excrucians
20:57 < Aestrix> ...
20:57 < Aestrix> Yep. Rae made a good call.
20:57 < linkhyrule5> Fun times ahead!
20:57 < kappabeta> Welp.
20:57 < linkhyrule5> Oh, did he end up rejecting the slavery offer?
20:57 < Aestrix> (He turned her down, by the way, once he learned about the specifics of the slavery deletion)
20:57 < Aestrix> Yeah
20:57 < Kel> Oh wow.
20:58 < linkhyrule5> yeaaaah
20:58 < Teceler> okay, yeah, um, eep
20:58 < Aestrix> It involved what basically amounted to mind raping every person in the universe to not be able to understand the concept of slavery
20:58 < linkhyrule5> ME recognized the name/scried the concept and is now explaining it
20:58 < Aestrix> Oh fuck
20:58 < linkhyrule5> ?
20:58 < Aestrix> All hell's about to break loose, I just realized, that'll be fun xD
20:58 < linkhyrule5> hahaah
20:58 < kappabeta> XD
20:58 < linkhyrule5> Less than you'd think
20:58 < Kel> Is stuff on fire enough yet?
20:58 < Aestrix> It is one thing for us to know it, another thing for a character to
20:59 < Teceler> what does this have to do with the forum, though?
20:59 < Teceler> ah
20:59 < kappabeta> fiiiiiiiiiire
20:59 < Teceler> such fire
20:59 < linkhyrule5> I was talking to Eva about it, since Astra might have been able to delete his post or something
20:59 < linkhyrule5> Astra's basically going go "shrug" and continue being a temptress in the shadows
20:59 < linkhyrule5> For example, Thorn is going to have to think hard about not excruciating the exsurgent virus...
20:59 < Teceler> it is probably good that Thorn is asleep at the moment, that might give her another nervous breakdown
21:00 < linkhyrule5> hahaah
21:00 < Teceler> yeah, she is
21:00 < Kel> Are there any problems inherent to excruciating the virus?
21:00 < Teceler> it depends on, well, what does that do to the rest of the universe?
21:00 < Teceler> does that cause reality damage like CV has?
21:01 < Teceler> (asyncs are a sufficently small portion of the population that they wouldn't be a big thing there, but that is also a question)
21:02 < linkhyrule5> The thing never happened and is no longer a coherent concept.
21:02 < Teceler> ...
21:02 < linkhyrule5> The Fall may not have ever happened, but large quantities of memetics might not be valid either. It may screw with the laws of physics something fierce, I'm nto sure
21:02 < Teceler> what does that do to the history of Eclipse/
21:03 < linkhyrule5> it will definitely cause reality damage, but probably not to the extent of CV, at least not at first/with only one deletion
21:03 < Teceler> you sure the exsurgent virus doesn't count as multiple concepts? :P
21:04 < Teceler> yeah, Thorn's going to be leery from the part where it occurs to here what this would do to history
21:04 < Teceler> I mean, on one hand, a lot of people who were dead are now not? But on the other hand, you are basically erasing everything that happened since that fall
21:05 < Teceler> on yet a third hand can this entity even be trusted to not just make things worse
21:05 < Aestrix> Does it actually tweak time?
21:05 < sonatagreen> the fact that they're asking for permission is more or less a point in their favor, I think
21:05 < linkhyrule5> Not sure. I suspect so.
21:05 < linkhyrule5> ME is prett ysure that that's a propaganda gambit
21:06 < Aestrix> Let me go find Rae's conversation with Astra
21:06 < Teceler> or for some reason they need permission tot work across worlds
21:06 < Aestrix> He actually talked mechanics a bit
21:07 < Teceler> do tell?
21:07 < Aestrix> Grabbing the logs <3
21:08 < Aestrix> This is her answering Leaf's questions because Rae went to Leaf for dimensional transport xD
21:08 < Aestrix> 1&2: I'm not from any world. I'm from Outside. It's literally indescribable to you. We don't share concept-space. 3: As an Excrucian (technical term for someone from Outside within reality in my particular way), about one-fourth of us have the power to casually wave things out of reality on a local scale. All of us can do the larger Rite that lets us delete s
21:08 < Aestrix> omething globally. There are perhaps a few hundred Excrucians in all of Creation (the full multiverse.)
21:08 < Aestrix> 4: I personally do not care much about what I delete from reality, since I don't live here. I do, however, care about my reputation. As a result, I will likely refuse to delete things that many sentients would prefer to exist, and prefer to delete things that many sentients would prefer to not exist.
21:08 < Aestrix> 5: Reality adapts. I've had much experience in this sort of area, and it's exceedingly rare for anything to be seriously damaged.
21:08 < Aestrix> 6: Slavery will be removed from Razenoth's universe's concept-space. Trying to conceive of making another sentient your property will be like thinking of what direction purple is - it simply won't make any sense anymore. Reality will rewrite itself to the closest approximation of itself without slavery.
21:09 < Aestrix> Then after Rae and Leaf both expressed, "AH NO BAD" feelings...
21:09 < Aestrix> "I'm sorry, I thought I was sufficiently clear that the mechanism was the modification of concept-space. The very concept of slavery will be deleted, and the only way that that can manifest is by modifying how minds work, since slavery is something sentients do to other sentients. "
21:09 < Aestrix> "This will also happen incidentally if I were to say, delete a deadly disease - that disease will have retroactively never existed, which will have the effect of making everyone forget that it did exist. "
21:09 < Aestrix> "This is not the case for my smaller power, however, so if you could transport me to the proper location, I could do something more precise by deleting the concept of a specific instance or incarnation of slavery. This would not ensure that slavery would never reoccur in your universe, however. "
21:10 < Aestrix> "In this case, I would have to go to that location and then 'wave my hand' at it. At that point, that specific instance of slavery - say 'slavery in the xyzzy highlands' would cease to exist."
21:10 < Aestrix> " In this case, it would be non-retroactive, since 'slavery' the overarching concept would still exist. I expect that this would result in every existing slave in that area being spontaneously freed. The exact mechanism would vary based on what would be most plausible. "
21:10 < Teceler> ...Thorn finds this incredibly creepy especially if it didn't actually retroactively make the Fall not happen
21:11 < Aestrix> And that's all I have, Rae politely turned her down, full of regret.
21:13 < Teceler> poor Rae
21:14 < Aestrix> He's a tough god, he'll get over it
21:14 < linkhyrule5> loool
21:14 < Aestrix> He doesn't regret turning her down, mind, he's actually like, "I almost didn't ask questions, I am very glad I got Leaf involved."
21:14 < kappabeta> :D
21:14 < kappabeta> Leaf is handy to have around for this sort of thing.
21:15 < Aestrix> Yeah
21:15 < kappabeta> Of course, he's actually going to help Astra go hang out with Lioncourt
21:15 < Aestrix> Actually he's going to ask Cordelia to let him look at Leaf to give him like, two blessings xD
21:15 < kappabeta> hee.
21:15 < Aestrix> Eventually
21:15 < kappabeta> ^^
21:16 < Aestrix> Actually I think at this point Leaf's his second favorite living mortal. xD
21:16 < kappabeta> ee :D
21:16 < sonatagreen> first being his acolyte?
21:17 < Aestrix> Yep!
21:17 < Aestrix> First being his acolyte <3
21:17 < Aestrix> She is his friend, and also she saved his life, so xD
21:18 < Aestrix> Apparently this is the century of 'Rae makes stupid decisions that mortals bail him out of.'
21:18 < Aestrix> He didn't have this problem before.
21:19 < linkhyrule5> loool
21:19 < Teceler> I will spare you all Cassiel's commentary on that :P
21:20 < Aestrix> Ahahaha xD
21:20 < Aestrix> Something along the lines of 'The mortals shouldn't have saved him"?
21:20 < DanielH> I have now caught up with everything, except whatever happened between the end of the logs on the forum and when I logged in today.
21:21 < Teceler> More 'that must have been a good learning experience'
21:21 < Aestrix> Yep
21:21 < Aestrix> Rae's learning pretty quickly :)
21:21 < DanielH> Earlier Thatwasademo asked why somebody would regret Rae's existence.
21:22 < DanielH> I find the answer obvious: if they were a slaver.
21:22 < Teceler> Cassiel thinks Rae isn't that bad, for a god. It's mostly malevolent ones he wants to outright stop existing
21:22 < Aestrix> Ahahahaha
21:22 < Aestrix> Rae's kind of amused with that ruling.
21:23 < DanielH> Also, in regards to the secrets-of-the-world question: I don't have any. Inkspot does, though, and I think Aestrix forgot to mention it:
21:23 < DanielH> The planet Inkspot and Prism live on is an Earth
21:23 < Aestrix> Oh right
21:23 < Aestrix> Yeah, it is
21:24 < DanielH> Finally, do excurians need permission? Why is she asking for it?
21:24 < Teceler> I think if they interacted more, given metaknowledge, that Rae would end up on the list of gods of that Cassiel actually gets along well with on a personal level (this is a short but not nonexistant list)
21:25 < Aestrix> :D
21:26 < Teceler> she is apparently asking for permission for PR reasons?
21:27 < Aestrix> Probably so everyone doesn't realize she's a world destroying abomination and try to kill her
21:27 < linkhyrule5> that's basically it
21:27 < Teceler> also that, yeah
21:27 < linkhyrule5> That and to avoid the attention of the Powers
21:27 < linkhyrule5> who, yannow, make a war out of things like this
21:28 < Teceler> what, you think the forum couldn't? :P
21:29 < Teceler> *forumites
21:29 < linkhyrule5> haha
21:30 < linkhyrule5> well, the keeper might pick up destroyed concepts
21:30 < linkhyrule5> depending on how kappa rules that
21:30 < kappabeta> That is pretty much exactly the kind of thing that the keeper is for.
21:30 < linkhyrule5> Entelechy can patch destroyed Estates, but they don't have access to literally infinite mana, so there's a limit on how much they can fix
21:31 < linkhyrule5> I'd be a little worried about Excrucians overriding that somehow
21:31 < linkhyrule5> even if they can't screw with her, they might screw with the link between worlds or something
21:31 < linkhyrule5> Let's see, Esthfora is likely to decline to have memories deleted, so deleted concepts will still be there
21:31 < kappabeta> In the absence of conflicting opinions from other players, my ruling would be that when you destroy a concept, the keeper can access both the pre-destruction and post-destruction states of all relevant universes, assuming she could access them beforehand.
21:31 < linkhyrule5> ... not sure anyone e lse has the raw conceptual power to go toe to toe with them
21:32 < linkhyrule5> Oh, the World of Darkness could, maybe? But that might be a cure worse than the disease >.> :P
21:32 < Teceler> yeah, but then we hit on the meta reason that won't happen of it being unfun
21:32 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
21:32 < linkhyrule5> yeah
21:33 < kappabeta> what's being unfun?
21:33 < Teceler> all of the universes on the MWF being systematiclly removed form existance
21:33 < kappabeta> XD yeah
21:34 < Teceler> I'm actually surprised that she didn't come with difficulty working on universes she's not native to
21:34 < kappabeta> also, re: Esthfora and memory deletion: Yeah, Esthfora just plain doesn't work that way. Her memories are encompassed by her fundamental nature of "not necessarily beholden to linear time or external causality"
21:34 < kappabeta> That who didn't come with?
21:34 < linkhyrule5> As I understand it, she's being implemented as someone "between worlds", so she doesn't have a native world in the first place
21:34 < Teceler> what's-her-name, the Excrucian
21:34 < kappabeta> aha, yeah
21:34 < kappabeta> She claims to be from not-a-world
21:34 < Teceler> true
21:35 < linkhyrule5> Also, I am totally going to be using Ar Tonelico music as background for whenever ME cuts loose
21:35 < kappabeta> hmm?
21:35 < linkhyrule5> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxp4X59LoIY&list=PL0D514FA360F68689&index=16
21:35 < linkhyrule5> *is randomly listening to ArT music*
21:35 < Teceler> but you could use the excuse that they interact particularly well with Nobilis' universe particularly
21:35 < Teceler> or, well
21:35 < Teceler> not-well
21:35 < linkhyrule5> Between that, Dai Mahou Hatsudou, and EXEC_CHRONICLE_KEY
21:35 < linkhyrule5> I think I'mset :P
21:36 < linkhyrule5> On a side note, Teceler - so yeah, Tyche or wait for Thorn?
21:36 < Teceler> oh, I kind of got distracted
21:36 < linkhyrule5> join the club :P
21:37 < Teceler> Only reason not to poke Tyche is that I'm not quite firm on her characterization yet, and there's only one way to fix that.
21:39 < linkhyrule5> ha
21:39 < linkhyrule5> well then
21:39 < linkhyrule5> I'll throw a creepy request the virus her way then :P
21:40 < Aestrix> That music is great for ME cutting loose xD
21:40 < Aestrix> I was listening, sorry <3
21:40 < linkhyrule5> haha, yeah
21:40 < linkhyrule5> The whole playlist alternates between "sweet" and "epic/glorious"
21:40 < Aestrix> <3
21:41 < linkhyrule5> try EXEC_CHRONICLE_KEY too
21:41 < kappabeta> wow that song absolutely refuses to load for me, damn
21:42 < kappabeta> the five seconds of it i repeatedly heard were very pretty though
21:42 < linkhyrule5> and this is another thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwFKD3X_TWc
21:42 < linkhyrule5> It starts very pretty, grows very epic, and thengets very pretty again
21:42 < linkhyrule5> It's basically "I love the world, and I will protect everything it.
21:42 < linkhyrule5> I /will/ save the world. I will save all that come within my sight."
21:42 < Aestrix> <3
21:43 < linkhyrule5> Kappabeta - try without the playlist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pxH6qjSZJQ
21:43 < linkhyrule5> oh wait, it's a loading problem? Might not help then
21:43 < Teceler> try turning html5 on
21:43 < Teceler> sometimes poking at that seems to help
21:44 < kappabeta> i should probably be going to bed instead
21:45 < linkhyrule5> hahah
21:46 < Teceler> sleep well?
21:46 < linkhyrule5> what time zone are you in, if I may?
21:46 < linkhyrule5> (it's kind of early where I am, so it's weirding me out :P )
21:46 < kappabeta> EST
21:46 < linkhyrule5> that would help, but part of me is going "going to bed before midnight? Hisssss!"
21:46 < linkhyrule5> :P
21:46 < Aestrix> Kappa needs to go to bed before midnight xD
21:47 < Teceler> hey, keeping a sane sleep schedule can be useful
21:48 < kappabeta> if I don't go to bed by like ~10:30, I tend to spend the following day as a groaning zombie.
21:48 < kappabeta> I am already slightly in for it and will only get more so as I persist in not going to bed.
21:48 < linkhyrule5> ahhh
21:48 < linkhyrule5> lol
21:48 < linkhyrule5> fair enough
21:48 < linkhyrule5> good night, good luck
21:48 < linkhyrule5> (I tend to go to bed at 5am and wake up at 3pm, so >.>0
21:49 < Kel> good night! (Should I wait until tomorrow for DL to accept?)
21:49 < kappabeta> Would be convenient probably
21:49 < Kel> Okay. Good night!
21:49 < Teceler> linkhyrule: my sleep schedule used to do that, but it didn't make me feel any more well slept so I made it cooperate with when other people were awake
21:50 < Teceler> sleep well
21:50 < Aestrix> Good night, Kappa
21:50 < linkhyrule5> I'vebeen trying that on occasion, but it's hard to pull off
21:50 < linkhyrule5> I might try again this ummer
21:50 < linkhyrule5> Oh, I sent a thing to Tyche
21:50 < linkhyrule5> we're off to the races :P
21:50 < kappabeta> zzz
21:50 < kappabeta> goodnight all
21:51 < sonatagreen> night
21:51 < Kel> I guess I should go to sleep soon too. I'm normally happiest if I get to bed before 9:30.
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21:52 < linkhyrule5> geeez
21:52 < linkhyrule5> so many early birds here :P
21:52 < linkhyrule5> night!
21:52 < Aestrix> Good night! <3
21:52 < Aestrix> Hey, I will have you know that if left to my own devices I will stay up 'til the early daylight hours of the morning
21:52 < Aestrix> .... Or I did, anyway, I actually kind of stopped that when I got my own apartment. xD
21:53 < Kel> Good night! (hahaha, yeah I get up at 5 during the school year, and ~6:30 during the summer)
21:53 < Teceler> sleep well
21:53 < Aestrix> I've started getting up at 8.
21:53 < Aestrix> It's disgusting.
21:53 < linkhyrule5> .....
21:53 < Aestrix> I feel dirty inside.
21:53 < linkhyrule5> Yeahhh
21:53 < linkhyrule5> My sleep schedule is chaotic
21:53 < Aestrix> Where are the days when I would sleep until noon?
21:54 < linkhyrule5> Given my schedule on any day, you know nothing about my schedule a few days later
21:54 < Aestrix> Where are the summers I would spend sleeping until 2 PM, get up eat something, then go right back to bed?
21:54 < linkhyrule5> ^^^ :D
21:54 < Aestrix> <3
21:54 < linkhyrule5> All you can say is, at any time, I have a one-in-three chance of being asleep
21:54 < Teceler> having a predictable sleep schedule has it's uses :P
21:55 < Aestrix> I agree, it's starting to grow on me
21:55 < Aestrix> Like a fungus.
21:55 < Kel> <3
21:55 < Teceler> Tyche sent replied
21:56 < Teceler> er
21:56 < Teceler> *replied
21:56 < Kel> ?
21:56 < Teceler> that was at linkhyrule5
21:56 < Kel> ah ok sorry
21:56 < Teceler> sorry, that wasn't very clear
21:57 < Kel> it's okay!
21:57 < linkhyrule5> loool
21:57 < linkhyrule5> Teceler: Nice "response"
21:57 < linkhyrule5> :P
21:57 < Aestrix> You know what I need to do, because I have an eight o clock class in the morning?
21:57 < Aestrix> Ugh.
21:57 < Aestrix> Sleep.
21:58 < Teceler> I should probably decide where the Firewall station they're at actually is so that Thorn can sensibly answer DL's question later
21:58 < Teceler> ...it's contagious! everyone, hide! :P
21:59 < Aestrix> RUN FOR YOUR LIVES THE BED BEAST IS COMING FOR YOUR LATE NIGHTS AND CHEETOS
21:59 < Teceler> XD
21:59 < Aestrix> SAVE YOURSELF
21:59 < Teceler> sleep well, Aestrix
21:59 < Kel> GOOD NIGHT AND SLEEP SAFELY! SLEEP TO HIDE FROM THE BED BEAST
21:59 < Aestrix> Thanks!
21:59 < Aestrix> Good night <3
21:59 < Aestrix> I WILL NOBLE KEL. I WILL
21:59 < linkhyrule5> loool
21:59 < Aestrix> I WILL FIGHT IT SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO
22:00 < Aestrix> (Night <3)
22:00 < Teceler> XDXDXD
22:00 < linkhyrule5> Sleep tight, don't let the bed bite?
22:00 < linkhyrule5> :P
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22:00 < linkhyrule5> Reply sent
22:00 < linkhyrule5> Teceler
22:00 < Kel> Night. Actually going to bed now.
22:00 -!- Kel has quit
22:01 < linkhyrule5> geeez
22:01 < linkhyrule5> crazy people are crazy
22:01 < linkhyrule5> :P
22:01 < Teceler> did ME pull the word exsurgent out of the ether, incidentally?
22:02 < Teceler> I just noticed that
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22:04 < linkhyrule5> Yes
22:04 < linkhyrule5> Yes he did.
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22:09 < linkhyrule5> Arbitrary scrying is nice like that
22:09 < Teceler> does ME's scrying not take something like 'sample of the exsurgent virus' as a parameter?
22:09 < linkhyrule5> Oh it will, but it'd be kind of annoying
22:10 < Teceler> ha
22:10 < linkhyrule5> Scrying is fairly cheap, but it's nonzero
22:10 < linkhyrule5> and besides, general privacy concerns
22:10 < linkhyrule5> it's really really easy for him to step over that line, so he asks for permission whenver he can
22:10 < linkhyrule5> Of course the fact that he tends to ignore "no" when it comes to worldsaving things kind of defeats the purpose
22:10 < linkhyrule5> but nobody says he was good at it >.> :P
22:11 < linkhyrule5> In his defense, he really wouldn't do that for something /just/ private, like Miles' lack of a love life or something :P
22:11 < Teceler> considering that his first result is likely to be tangled up with Thorn unless however he specificities excludes that, that is a reasonable/useful thing to do
22:11 < Teceler> *specifies
22:11 < Teceler> but, yeah
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22:14 < linkhyrule5> heh, true
22:14 < linkhyrule5> this is why he'd like a "pure" sample
22:14 < linkhyrule5> he /can/ try and get just the virus
22:14 < linkhyrule5> from an infected target
22:14 < linkhyrule5> but
22:16 < Teceler> also there are a ridiculous number of distinct strains, which he will likely notice in short order, but Tyche is assuming he means 'a sample of some strain of'
22:18 < Teceler> how convoluted coordinates can ME's scrying take?
22:18 < Teceler> because if he gets a location it will probably be in very convoluted terms
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22:20 < Teceler> like, if he can do something like 'in the room with this ridiculously specific pattern on the door' and mentions that he is somewhat more likely to get that
22:20 < Teceler> of course, if he actually gets permission Firewall will be less startled when shenanigans :P
22:21 < linkhyrule5> lol
22:21 < linkhyrule5> and yes, he can get things like that
22:21 < linkhyrule5> and will mention that if aasked
22:21 < linkhyrule5> honestly the coordinates themselves don't even matter
22:21 < linkhyrule5> as long as she "tells him where they are"
22:22 < Teceler> so, the question is, should she? I can convince Firewall of that much more easily
22:23 < Teceler> I mean, we are assuming Firewall actually has a sample somewhere
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22:24 < Teceler> ...or knows where someone else is keeping one
22:24 < Teceler> which actually makes more sense, ha
22:25 < Teceler> because Firewall doesn't have an actual reason to do that unless it was the best means of containment available, but someone who was experimenting with Watts-MacLeod (or another strain, but they would likely have had larger problems in that case) would
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22:29 < linkhyrule5> heh
22:29 < linkhyrule5> yeah, that would work
22:29 < linkhyrule5> ME will tell her what sort of coordinates he needs once she actually agrees
22:29 < linkhyrule5> (sorry, this stupid IRc chat doesn't have audio alerts, so I have to rememebr to check back every now and then)
22:30 < Teceler> ...well, she is more likely to agree (or get permission, rather) knowing what kind he needs :P
22:30 < Teceler> ...what client are you using?
22:31 < Teceler> I know how to make Xchat do pop-up alerts, does whatever that is have configuration?
22:32 < linkhyrule5> HydraIRC
22:32 < linkhyrule5> which is very very new
22:32 < linkhyrule5> I might try something else
22:32 < Teceler> ah, I don't know that one enough to be helpful
22:33 < linkhyrule5> in fact, why don't I switch to something sane
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22:34 < Teceler> I'd recommend XChat, it's worked well for me, but there are plenty out there that have decent alerts
22:35 < sonatagreen> I'm using xchat, I find it acceptable
22:36 < linkhyrule5> hydraIRC has mostly annoyed me
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22:39 < sonatagreen> I think mibbit is probably the worst among things that people actually use
22:39 < sonatagreen> anyway, I go sleep
22:39 < Teceler> sleep well
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22:39 < Teceler> I should head off soon too
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22:40 < Teceler> ...
22:41 < linkhyrule5> ?
22:42 < Teceler> she keeps bouncing on and off and I don't know why
22:42 < Teceler> (or possibly he)
22:44 < linkhyrule5> Adelene,lol
22:44 < linkhyrule5> ....
22:44 < linkhyrule5> that was not what I meant to type
22:44 < linkhyrule5> wtf
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22:46 < linkhyrule5_> XChat is active!
22:46 -!- linkhyrule5 has quit
22:46 < Teceler> woo!
22:46 -!- linkhyrule5_ is now known as linkhyrule5
22:47 < linkhyrule5> so how do you set up audible alerts for this?
22:47 < Teceler> settings -> preferences -> chatting -> alterts
22:48 < Teceler> *alerts
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22:49 < linkhyrule5> Right
22:49 < linkhyrule5> linkhyrule5
22:49 < linkhyrule5> nope
22:49 < linkhyrule5> you t ry
22:49 < Teceler> is it giving you audio alerts?
22:49 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: test
22:49 < linkhyrule5> I think I can set itup to beep when someone says my name
22:49 < linkhyrule5> there we go
22:49 < linkhyrule5> excellent
22:49 < linkhyrule5> I don't want it to beep literally every tiem someone talks
22:49 < linkhyrule5> I just want people to be able to get my attention
22:49 < linkhyrule5> while I do other htings
22:49 < Teceler> yup
22:50 < Teceler> I've got it set up to give me ballon alerts, but that might be too intrusive for you
22:50 < linkhyrule5> Actually that'd be useful too
22:50 < linkhyrule5> also sent
22:50 < linkhyrule5> (a PM)
22:52 < Teceler> okay, I need to get sleep and Tyche needs to get permission (and likely actual information) for that
22:52 < linkhyrule5> loool
22:52 < linkhyrule5> kay
22:52 < linkhyrule5> night
22:52 < Teceler> so you will get a reply in the morning probably
22:52 < Teceler> thanks
22:53 < Teceler> sleep well whenever you do
22:54 < linkhyrule5> hah
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23:06 < DanielH> I now believe that ME is an alt of Visitor. You will not convince me otherwise.
23:07 < linkhyrule5> :P
23:07 < linkhyrule5> I just really really like that quote.
23:07 < linkhyrule5> It's entirely possible, thuogh.
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23:07 < linkhyrule5> Visitor's shenanigans is totally something he'd do if he were in that situation.
23:07 < DanielH> I had to deliberately stop myself from using some quote like that. I don’t remember what it was, though.
23:08 < linkhyrule5> Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery :P
23:08 < linkhyrule5> Though I should probably let Alicorn know at some point
23:08 < linkhyrule5> But yeah, I really love that quote
23:08 < DanielH> I would have used whatever-it-was, but Andrew wouldn’t.
23:11 < DanielH> Also, if I had seen the previous and next sentences without that one, ("But even so: I intend to live forever. [...] I, and all those who come within my sight, if they are willing."), I would have assumed they were a quote from a Bell.
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23:13 < linkhyrule5> They're really from Fate Stay Night, but they all kind of share sources through HPMOR and Eliezer
23:13 < linkhyrule5> I think ME is a little more pretentious than most Bells tend to be? BUt the mentality is the same
23:13 < DanielH> Possibly, yeah
23:13 < DanielH> But those two sentences don't really show that much
23:15 < linkhyrule5> true
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23:38 < DanielH> And now I must join the horde of crazy people in losing consciousness for several hours.
23:38 < DanielH> When it is not even 23:00 in my time zone.
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23:43 < Eva> Evening all
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00:04 < linkhyrule5> hello
00:05 < linkhyrule5> fyi, you can now get my attention by saying my name
00:05 < linkhyrule5> in true great mage form :P
00:05 < linkhyrule5> Eva
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00:20 < Eva> Ohai linkhyrule5
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01:53 < linkhyrule5> hey Eva
01:53 < linkhyrule5> well
01:53 < linkhyrule5> aparently that's not foolproof.
01:53 < linkhyrule5> >.<
01:53 < linkhyrule5> Oh sure now it tells me
01:53 < linkhyrule5> thanks, XChat, I would never have noticed
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Post by Dotted Lines on May 26, 2015 16:01:16 GMT
I honestly don't know why it did or said that, sorry. I am pretty sure I was not awake or doing anything during most of that. Is there something I can do differently to make it stop doing that?
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Post by lurkingkobold on May 26, 2015 16:15:38 GMT
Can you set whatever irc program your tablet uses to not auto-reconnect if it loses the connection? I'd expect that to fix it.
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 27, 2015 14:16:41 GMT
Spoilered because long. 07:35 -!- Kel-tablet has quit
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08:26 < kappabeta> what a long list of humans
08:26 < Kel> ?
08:26 < kappabeta> XD
08:26 < kappabeta> there's a lot of people in the channel!
08:27 < Thatwasademo> i see mostly a long list of the same human
08:27 < Kel> Ah
08:27 < Thatwasademo> exiting and leaving repeatedly
08:27 < kappabeta> hahahahahaha oh?
08:28 < Thatwasademo> kel-tablet
08:28 < Kel> Oh sorry
08:28 < Kel> I tried to access the chat on my tablet but it didn't work very well a few times
08:28 < Thatwasademo> hahaha it's fine hexchat doesn't notify me on join/leave messages
08:28 < Kel> and then I got here and it was silet
08:28 < Kel> *silent
08:29 < Thatwasademo> night falls on a still pond. all is silent. except for the rhino
08:30 < kappabeta> fadfdfdfd
08:31 < Thatwasademo> oh that reminds me, kappa, i've been meaning to ask you if you're equal to the magnitude of the velocity cross the acceleration over the magnitude of the velocity cubed
08:32 < kappabeta> ??????????????
08:32 < Thatwasademo> or am i still thinking of the wrong kappa
08:32 < Thatwasademo> http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/Classes/CalcIII/Curvature.aspx
08:32 < kappabeta> XD
08:34 < Thatwasademo> (i am presently taking a calculus 3 course and this sort of thing just sticks in your mind)
08:35 < Thatwasademo> oh dang keeper just threw down the gauntlet
08:35 < kappabeta> keeper is PISSED
08:35 < kappabeta> XD
08:35 < Thatwasademo> it's hard to tell when she's so lethargic
08:35 < kappabeta> yes XD
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08:49 < Eva> Hello, anybody home?
08:49 < Thatwasademo> hi
08:50 < kappabeta> Yep
08:50 < Kel> Hi!
08:50 < Eva> Ohai :3
08:50 < kappabeta> Conflict appears to be brewing XD
08:50 < kappabeta> between astra and the keeper
08:50 < Eva> Hee. Yes, it does.
08:51 < Eva> Also I'm really surprised at how fast public opinion turned against Astra.
08:51 < Eva> Ah well.~
08:51 < kappabeta> Well, the keeper in PARTICULAR is no surprise
08:52 < Eva> That was very expected, yeah.
08:52 < kappabeta> XD
08:52 < Thatwasademo> Viridian is largely undecided
08:52 < Eva> :P
08:52 < Kel> And the Orz seem offended that she thinks any part of Outside could be good
08:52 < kappabeta> Should we be figuring out what their interaction is?
08:53 < Eva> Yes, we should, because we've got unstoppable force V. immovable object here.
08:53 < kappabeta> Just a bit.
08:53 < Eva> Also, you need to understand how Excrucian Flower Rites work, but that's privileged info.
08:53 < kappabeta> haha
08:53 < kappabeta> oh?
08:54 < Eva> Yeah, it's the exact mechanic of 'how do Excrucians remove things from universes'
08:55 < kappabeta> okay, let's hear it
08:56 < kappabeta> For the record, my inclination in the absence of conflicting opinions would be that as long as in some sense a thing once existed, the keeper has the same access to it as she does to anything else - she has no problems with various kinds of erased timeline
08:57 < kappabeta> But of course I'm not the only one playing ehre
08:57 < Eva> Excrucians write things out of existence by creating paradox. For example, if 'fire is hot' is a core part of the identity of fire, they could make a cold fire. Once they have the example, their magic then makes the universe say 'the concept of fire is inconsistent' And it gets tossed out.
08:57 < kappabeta> huh.
08:57 < Thatwasademo> if someone made a cold fire I would put it in a bottle and use it to melt hot ice
08:57 < Eva> They make two plus two sum to five, then call the universe's attention to it to throw out the concept of addition.
08:57 < kappabeta> XD
08:57 < Thatwasademo> not use it to erase the idea of fire
08:58 < Eva> Hehe :3
08:58 < Eva> Well, you're not an Excrucian.
08:58 < Thatwasademo> but maybe i've been watching too much ocarina of time
08:59 < Thatwasademo> that I'm not
08:59 < kappabeta> Aesthetically speaking, this feels like it has a fairly limited application - like, it requires a universe that aggressively demands consistency
08:59 < Eva> One of the written examples is of a 'swelling' flower rite performed to Christmas.
09:00 < kappabeta> what XD
09:01 < Eva> Christmas starts out as a single holiday. The Excrucians push it, and the 'Christmas season' happens. They keep pushing. Eventually, every day is Christmas. Christmastime stops being special and becomes regular old time. Christmas has been successfully paradoxed.
09:01 < kappabeta> hfdhfdfd
09:01 < kappabeta> XD
09:01 < Thatwasademo> Yeah, like I'm trying to think of how that would apply to the Dimension VVVVVV spikes, since a core part of their identity is that they kill you... but I think that dimension would be fine with having spikes that don't kill you and would just call them illusionary?
09:02 < Thatwasademo> On the other hand, maybe the flower rite does something more that would cause the dimension to not be okay with it anymore
09:03 < Eva> Part of what Excrucians get is a sense of what's ontologically basic about a concept in the local reality.
09:03 < Eva> So they don't waste their time on things like 'fire is orange.'
09:03 < kappabeta> ...you know, I wonder what Astra would think of Esthfora.
09:04 < Eva> Y'know, that's a very good question.
09:04 < linkhyrule5> So what happens when a world doesn't really care about consistency
09:04 < Thatwasademo> I too am intrigued
09:04 < linkhyrule5> or can be convinced otherwise?
09:04 < linkhyrule5> Entelechy is the one I have i mind, bu Esthfora is the other obvious example
09:04 < Eva> Esthfora doesn't exactly have concepts in her domain.
09:05 < linkhyrule5> (Entelechy really likes consistency, but Entelechy-likes-consistency is itself a concept that can be manipulated, and overriden with enough mana)
09:05 < kappabeta> Like, you couldn't practice concept deletion in Esthfora's self-place
09:05 < kappabeta> because it is made of different stuff
09:05 < kappabeta> yeah
09:05 < Eva> I think Astra would basically declare Esthfora as already existing Outside.
09:05 < kappabeta> I've been tempted to have Esthfora be all "ooh, can I try?" re: understanding Astra's home for which creatures from reality allegedly don't have the concepts
09:06 < kappabeta> haha
09:06 < linkhyrule5> ME is already planning to go send an alpha fork to learn from Orz
09:06 < Thatwasademo> I'm also somewhat curious as to what everyone thinks the relation of the void which the D.S.S. Souleye sails through is to Outside
09:06 < linkhyrule5> and then basically keep him in a mental closet
09:06 < Eva> Because honestly, she doesn't operate by concepts, and it's concepts that the Excrucians hate.
09:06 < linkhyrule5> (ME is fine with this and does this all the time)
09:06 < Thatwasademo> since people seem to be drawing comparisons which I might want to use
09:07 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
09:07 < linkhyrule5> I think we've been kind of assuming it is?
09:07 < linkhyrule5> The D.S.S Souleye is a reality marble that sails through nonspace?
09:07 < Thatwasademo> It seems awfully safe for being Outside though
09:07 < Thatwasademo> like the only catastrophe that happened was the crash landing
09:07 < Eva> Outside is Big.
09:07 < kappabeta> I mean, if Esthfora's self-place counts as Outside then Outside is capable of being hella safe
09:07 < Thatwasademo> So the Souleye mostly survived by virtue of being tiny?
09:08 < Eva> Kappa: That's basically Astra's argument!
09:08 < linkhyrule5> Outside is kind of everything and anything
09:08 < linkhyrule5> The problem is that it's usually not predicatable
09:08 < linkhyrule5> Esthfora has fallen into a stable pattern, so has Orz
09:08 < linkhyrule5> but in general if you wander through Outside random things happen to you
09:08 < linkhyrule5> and most random thigns are bad
09:08 < Thatwasademo> and the Souleye enforces a pattern for a short time to make space it can fly through
09:08 < Eva> The Excrucians are pretty unified on reality being comparatively really shitty to their imperceptible nega-universe.
09:08 < linkhyrule5> Also, like, the idea is that a ship is itself a world
09:08 < Thatwasademo> that would work
09:08 < kappabeta> hahaha
09:09 < linkhyrule5> so sailing through Outside is reasonably safe unless you go somwhere with "turbulent waters"
09:09 < kappabeta> XD
09:09 < linkhyrule5> where the outside Truth is actively trying to tear your universe apart
09:09 < Thatwasademo> ... I am becoming steadily more tempted to make a Xom account
09:10 < Thatwasademo> you know what
09:12 < linkhyrule5> Also
09:12 < linkhyrule5> as a side effect of my probing the WoD
09:12 < linkhyrule5> we have decided that ME's house is significantly more warded than his eyes are.
09:12 < linkhyrule5> (Because he doesn't really need a body, but his house is made of matter he can sacrifice for mana)
09:13 < linkhyrule5> So ME has been kind of going through a blackly comedic cycle of "eyeballs explode, sigh, repair eyeballs repeat"
09:13 < Kel> hahaha
09:13 < kappabeta> pffffffffffffffffff
09:13 < kappabeta> dafadfadfsdfgg
09:13 < Eva> Okay, you've gotta write that up and put it on the forum :D
09:13 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
09:13 < linkhyrule5> I might just do that...
09:14 < kappabeta> :D
09:14 < linkhyrule5> Oh, there was a bi where the Gauntlet tried more and more creative ways of killing him
09:14 < Thatwasademo> how do i quickswitch between accounts
09:14 < linkhyrule5> up to and including teleporting all of him to different bits of spacetime across the galaxy
09:14 < Eva> You do realize that Astra could delete the WoD's annoying painful Gauntlet, right? :3
09:14 < linkhyrule5> ME is mildly impressed!
09:14 < linkhyrule5> BUt not particularly inconvenienced
09:15 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, but that would probably be bad for the WoD :P
09:15 < Kel> Go to the bottom right and theres a little arrow and you click it,
09:15 < Kel> and then click the two people icon
09:15 < Eva> Well, it's already so badly off...
09:15 < Kel> and choose what account you want
09:15 < kappabeta> man I am totally forgetting who-all plays who already
09:16 * Eva is Astra and Lioncourt. Among others.
09:16 < linkhyrule5> If there's one thing that Worm has taught me
09:16 < linkhyrule5> it's that things can always, always - are you Dr. Realist?
09:16 < linkhyrule5> - get worse
09:16 < Eva> Caught me.
09:17 * Eva is indeed Dr. Realist.
09:17 < kappabeta> hee
09:17 < Kel> *is Botanical Engineer, Lantern, and Dotted Lines*
09:17 < Kel> (I think I did that wrong)
09:17 < linkhyrule5> And presumably the other incomprehnsibles, then?
09:17 < linkhyrule5> it's /me
09:17 * linkhyrule5 is Meletiti Entelecheiai
09:18 < Eva> Yeah, I'm also Firefly, Resident, Gnots, AethericChimaera, and Starlit.
09:18 < Eva> The whole 45th group.
09:18 < Thatwasademo> I'm Viridian
09:18 < kappabeta> I adore Dr. Realist
09:18 < kappabeta> Dr. Realist is a treasure
09:18 < Kel> yes
09:19 < kappabeta> I am Leaf and Nifl and keeper and Esthfora and Swish, in case anybody wasn't keeping up
09:19 < Eva> :3c
09:19 < Kel> is Botanical Engineer, Lantern, and Dotted Lines? /me
09:19 * Kel Botanical Engineer, Lantern, and Dotted Lines?
09:19 < Kel> There we go!
09:19 < kappabeta> <3
09:19 < kappabeta> who's Orz??
09:19 < Thatwasademo> nobody knows?
09:20 < Thatwasademo> well probably Orz knows
09:20 * Eva will neither confirm nor deny that Orz is her.
09:20 < kappabeta> Orz is adorzable.
09:20 < Thatwasademo> and Xom knows but Xom refuses to tell me
09:20 < Kel> I've been assuming Orz was secretly Demo, linkhyrule5, or Eva
09:20 < Eva> He is. He really, really is.
09:20 < Thatwasademo> which means Xom will probably tell me very soon
09:21 < linkhyrule5> I know who Orz is
09:21 < linkhyrule5> I'mnot telling~
09:21 < kappabeta> adorzable!
09:21 < Kel> Is Orz you?
09:21 < linkhyrule5> well unless he wants me too
09:21 < linkhyrule5> nah
09:21 < Kel> hahaha
09:21 < linkhyrule5> ME's my only account
09:21 < linkhyrule5> and he takes up all my time already
09:21 < linkhyrule5> he's a very... active character
09:26 * Thatwasademo whistles innocently
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09:26 < Thatwasademo> ... that wasn't me, I swear.
09:27 < Kel> hahaha
09:27 < Kel> was it Orz instead?
09:27 < linkhyrule5> loool
09:28 < kappabeta> that wasn't very adorzable at all!
09:32 < linkhyrule5> *Eva has been deleted from existence*
09:32 < kappabeta> hahahahahahahaha
09:32 < linkhyrule5> *The Excrucian is now free of the Fourth Wall*
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09:32 < kappabeta> heeeee
09:32 < kappabeta> hello again eva
09:34 < linkhyrule5> Are you actually Nephthys, come to delete our worlds?
09:34 < linkhyrule5> The Fourth Wall Will Not Protect You!
09:34 * Thatwasademo thinks this is hilarious!
09:34 < Thatwasademo> wait no, not me
09:34 < Thatwasademo> xom does
09:34 < linkhyrule5> Oh, have another Ar Tonelico awesome music
09:34 < linkhyrule5> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1GtMiKXE_E&index=2&list=PL0D514FA360F68689
09:35 < kappabeta> Anyway, should we continue pondering Astra vs keeper
09:35 < kappabeta> I *think* that deletion as described doesn't impede the keeper's access to things
09:37 < kappabeta> emphasis on "think" because this is a cooperative decision
09:41 < linkhyrule5> Oh my gods
09:41 < linkhyrule5> Xom is adorable
09:41 < linkhyrule5> and hilarious
09:41 < linkhyrule5> "Xom could banish you to the Abyss if that would help. Maybe even if it wouldn't help." "... I would really rather you didn't?"
09:41 < linkhyrule5> that is just
09:41 < linkhyrule5> wow
09:41 < linkhyrule5> best conversation
09:41 < kappabeta> XD
09:41 < linkhyrule5> everyone go home we're done here
09:42 < Thatwasademo> xom is pleased that you are amused
09:42 < Kel> heee!
09:42 < kappabeta> i wonder what happened to eva
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09:43 < Thatwasademo> xom has applied the effects of a Potion of Experience to you
09:43 < Eva> Hi
09:43 < kappabeta> hi eva
09:43 < Eva> Sorry, a bit busy here.
09:43 < kappabeta> k
09:45 < Eva> Nephthys is going to be annoyed that the Keeper's saving things.
09:45 < Eva> How about we go with 'it's unusually hard to find for the keeper'
09:46 < kappabeta> hmmmm
09:47 < Thatwasademo> also <linkhyrule5> Oh my gods
09:47 < Thatwasademo> was that intentional wordplay?
09:47 < kappabeta> I think that if the keeper has already found a world, and then something gets deleted from it, the deletion might disrupt her organization system so that it takes her some time to find both the pre-deletion records and the post-deletion incoming data stream
09:47 < kappabeta> does that sound about right
09:48 < kappabeta> and if she *hasn't* found a world yet and a bunch of stuff has been deleted from it, she can find the current incoming data stream most easily but with enough poking around she can locate all the pre-deletion records too
09:49 < kappabeta> she will be grumpy about this, but no longer outraged
09:49 < Thatwasademo> The problem with Xom is that he's not going to be able to easily demonstrate how Xom he is without consenting worshipers to feel the full brunt of his random effects
09:49 < Thatwasademo> hmm
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09:55 < linkhyrule5> lol
09:55 < linkhyrule5> Thatwasademo which thing was intentional wordplay?
09:55 < Thatwasademo> "gods"
09:55 < Thatwasademo> unless it was unintentional wordplay
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09:56 < linkhyrule5> neither
09:56 < Thatwasademo> speaking of, now that Xom has got me talking about DCSS, I think Nemelex might be a Joker
09:57 < linkhyrule5> I just use "oh my gods" ragularly
09:57 < linkhyrule5> so I guess it was unintentional wordplay
09:57 < Thatwasademo> so it was unintentional wordplay
09:57 < Thatwasademo> yeah
09:57 < Thatwasademo> Xom is a god
09:57 < linkhyrule5> Oh is he now?
09:57 < linkhyrule5> that's amusing
09:57 < Thatwasademo> http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Nemelex_Xobeh
09:58 < Thatwasademo> he's described as a trickster god, and he has a card theme, but he's lacking in obvious trauma
09:58 < Thatwasademo> which is why I said might
09:58 < kappabeta> fdhdjfhdjfhd
09:58 < Thatwasademo> and yeah xom is a god
09:59 < Thatwasademo> Xom also has a twin named Zin who is all lawful and holy and all that nonsense
10:01 < kappabeta> Nemelex sounds very Jokerlike
10:01 < Thatwasademo> It's all in the cards!
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10:04 < Thatwasademo> Other DCSS gods might appear if they are needed
10:06 < Thatwasademo> also would you believe that I am still utterly baffled by the fact that people like my writing
10:07 < kappabeta> <3
10:08 < Thatwasademo> like that exchange between viridian and xom was just "well i made this account now what do I do with it"
10:08 < kappabeta> it was hilarious
10:08 < Thatwasademo> and i don't know why!
10:08 < Kel> "some sort of incredibly bland vegetable"
10:10 < Thatwasademo> yeeeessss?
10:10 < Kel> it was funny, and unexpected!
10:11 < Thatwasademo> it is literally a joke that the DCSS developers made first
10:11 < Thatwasademo> but thanks
10:11 < Kel> I'm not familiar with the source, but it was funny in this context!
10:12 < sonatagreen> *finishes reading logs*
10:13 < Thatwasademo> well the context is that some DCSS gods give "god gifts"; normally (that is to say, in the case of Okawaru or Beogh) these are magical or artifact pieces of gear
10:13 < Thatwasademo> xom just gives completely random items
10:13 < kappabeta> XD
10:13 < sonatagreen> re: keeper vs excrucians: it seems to me like the excrucians work by adding white noise to drown out the original concept
10:13 < sonatagreen> so the keeper technically can retrieve the original hot fire, but has to sort through the cold fire and purple fire and left fire and seventeen fire to find it
10:13 < Thatwasademo> choko used to be a food item in the game but recently all fruit and vegetables were combined into a single item to make inventory management easier
10:14 < kappabeta> <3 <3 <3 lambda <3 <3 <3
10:14 < kappabeta> This would also fall under grumpy keeper
10:14 < kappabeta> left fire and seventeen fire ^^
10:14 < sonatagreen> like, I'm thinking of a folktale
10:15 < kappabeta> hmm?
10:15 < sonatagreen> where a human caught a leprechaun and forced it to reveal the location of its pot of gold
10:15 < Kel> oh that one!
10:15 < sonatagreen> which was buried under one of the potato plants, but the shovel was back at the house, so
10:16 < sonatagreen> the human tied a ribbon to the plant and made the leprechaun promise not to remove the ribbon
10:16 < sonatagreen> so the leprechaun tied identical ribbons to all the other potato plants.
10:16 < kappabeta> ahahahaha
10:16 < kappabeta> hmm
10:16 < Thatwasademo> hey kappa does xom have permission to cause an event to occur in the keeper's domain
10:16 < kappabeta> ooh.
10:16 < kappabeta> What sort of event?
10:17 < Thatwasademo> http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Xom
10:17 < Thatwasademo> scroll down to Acts
10:17 < kappabeta> hahaha
10:18 < kappabeta> I am having fun pondering left fire and seventeen fire
10:18 < Thatwasademo> this fire
10:18 < Thatwasademo> it's so SEVENTEEN
10:18 < kappabeta> XD
10:19 < Thatwasademo> this is reminding me of a webcomic
10:19 < Thatwasademo> hang on
10:19 < kappabeta> Like, that's a very different way of conceptualizing the deletion from the way we were thinking, but it's a *fun* way
10:19 < kappabeta> has eva gone away? i guess i can ask her later if i see her again and remember
10:19 < Thatwasademo> oh here we go http://atxs.comicdish.com/index.php?pageID=8
10:20 < Thatwasademo> but that was sixteen not seventeen
10:20 < kappabeta> okay so tell me more about xom acts
10:20 < Thatwasademo> eva is not currently present
10:20 < linkhyrule5> Hey Teceler
10:20 < linkhyrule5> is it just me, or did Tyche not actually get permission to do that?
10:20 < Teceler> no, she got permission
10:20 < Teceler> I think
10:20 < Thatwasademo> well he picks whether he is going to do something good or bad; and then he picks an action completely at random from the list of things he can do
10:21 < Thatwasademo> since the Keeper has made him BORED explaining things he is going to automatically pick bad
10:21 < Thatwasademo> this may or may not do anything meaningful
10:21 < linkhyrule5> On a side note, want to run something in the glowfic style on Dreamwidth?
10:21 < Teceler> hm
10:21 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
10:21 < kappabeta> hmm
10:21 < linkhyrule5> I kind of want to run ME-probes-the-exsurgent virus IC, but the MWF format doesn't really allow for that
10:22 < kappabeta> What are the normal rules that govern whether or not Xom can do things to people?
10:22 < Thatwasademo> Normally? Only if they worship him or draw a Xom card. But I'm presuming that that's more a matter of his attention than his capability.
10:23 < kappabeta> And what happens if he picks an action that is nonapplicable
10:23 < Thatwasademo> Or equivalently that the MWF is considered to be worshiping him
10:23 < Thatwasademo> It happens anyway and probably does nothing
10:23 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
10:23 < kappabeta> okay
10:23 < Thatwasademo> actually wait i'm not sure if that's true
10:23 < kappabeta> The keeper would be like "well, that was a good way to get me to locate your world and a very bad way to get me to do you any favours"
10:23 < Thatwasademo> i'm not a DCSS guru
10:24 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: The thing to keep in mind there is that I can be horrible at replying to stuff that way unless prodded
10:24 < Teceler> but that is my only sort-of-objection
10:25 < Thatwasademo> I think what Xom is going to do, via narrative fiat, is teleport a bunch of things in her domain around
10:25 < kappabeta> there... aren't relaly any things in her domain currently
10:25 < Thatwasademo> ah
10:25 < Thatwasademo> then I thought wrong, probably
10:25 < Thatwasademo> he might teleport HER around though
10:25 < kappabeta> there is a flat solid mass of rock, and a contiguous mass of air, and the keeper
10:25 < kappabeta> he could teleport her around
10:26 < kappabeta> he could also apparently banish her to the abyss
10:26 < Thatwasademo> "* Instantly teleport several times, likely up to a relatively dangerous place."
10:26 < kappabeta> she would be SO DISGRUNTLED
10:26 < kappabeta> if he banished her to the abyss
10:26 < kappabeta> disgruntled keeper entertains me greatly
10:26 < Thatwasademo> that sounds amusing
10:26 < Thatwasademo> I don't think he's likely to post about doing it
10:26 < kappabeta> hahaha
10:26 < Thatwasademo> So, he teleports her to the abyss and she has to find a gateway out?
10:27 < Thatwasademo> Maybe she finds the Abyssal Rune on the way or something
10:27 < kappabeta> He teleports her to the abyss and she becomes super disgruntled and makes angry posts to her thread about it
10:27 < kappabeta> I'm not sure she would even try exploring
10:27 < Thatwasademo> perfect
10:27 < kappabeta> :D
10:27 < kappabeta> also she is highly limited in her ability to effectively do things
10:27 < kappabeta> so like
10:28 < Thatwasademo> i'd imagine tentacled starspawn, apocalypse crabs, starcursed masses, etc are pretty irritating
10:28 < Thatwasademo> and the other random monsters that show up because the abyss is a very chaotic mplace
10:28 < Thatwasademo> mplace
10:28 < Thatwasademo> really
10:28 < kappabeta> Are there any things in the abyss that cannot be handled by dropping a sufficiently large block of granite on them?
10:28 < Thatwasademo> Probably not
10:28 < kappabeta> XD
10:28 < kappabeta> okay
10:28 < Kel> (or inside of them?)
10:29 < Thatwasademo> The ceiling might prevent making a sufficiently large single chunk of granite
10:29 < Thatwasademo> but enough physical damage will kill most things there
10:29 < kappabeta> the keeper hasn't learned how to do very many things, but she has learned how to instantiate rock
10:29 < kappabeta> she will instantiate rock at things until the things stop trying to eat her
10:29 < kappabeta> XD
10:29 < Thatwasademo> Infinite defense and that ability will eventually take care of anything
10:29 < Thatwasademo> anything in Crawl anyway
10:30 < Thatwasademo> since I don't think any monster at all is completely immune to physical damage
10:30 * kappabeta posts keeper complaints
10:30 * kappabeta cackles
10:31 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - as long as you keep getting on the IRC that'd be fine
10:32 * Thatwasademo cackles right back
10:32 < linkhyrule5> loooooool
10:32 < linkhyrule5> that's hilarious
10:32 * kappabeta posts again, cackles some more
10:32 < kappabeta> ahahahahaha when the writhing horrors go splat XD
10:33 < linkhyrule5> Wow
10:33 < linkhyrule5> So many nethack references here
10:33 < linkhyrule5> I feel spoiled
10:34 < linkhyrule5> I mean Crawl has a layer of indirection but
10:34 < sonatagreen> eeheehee
10:34 < Thatwasademo> assume Xom continues to act every twenty AUTs or so
10:35 < Thatwasademo> but nothing of note happens
10:35 < kappabeta> AUTs?
10:35 < Thatwasademo> arbitrary unit of time; long enough for a character at normal speed to walk one tile or attack an enemy once
10:35 < kappabeta> aha
10:35 < kappabeta> is he just going to keep pelting her with random effects
10:36 < Thatwasademo> like the keeper finds herself occasionally swapping with a nearby monster or something
10:36 < Thatwasademo> this is what xom does
10:36 < Thatwasademo> 20 auts is probably about 5 minutes
10:36 < kappabeta> hmm
10:36 < Thatwasademo> actually not every 20 auts but randomly rolled every 20 auts i misread
10:37 < Thatwasademo> she's now in the dungeon of zot and thus vulnerable
10:37 < kappabeta> hahaha
10:37 < Thatwasademo> well, not exactly "vulnerable" but you know
10:37 < kappabeta> I think after she gets home she will figure out what allowed Xom to affect her the first time and block it
10:37 < kappabeta> so alas this will be her only abyssal adventure
10:38 < kappabeta> what the hell's an abyssal rune and does she want one
10:38 < Thatwasademo> It's one of the runes of zot! Presumably it has some sort of cosmic power too, but in the game it's only used for opening the way to the Realm of Zot where the Orb of Zot resides
10:39 < kappabeta> haha
10:39 < Thatwasademo> She might see it after having Detect Items applied to her
10:41 < Thatwasademo> She might also randomly stumble upon a door home after being teleported around a lot by both Xom and the Abyss itself
10:41 < kappabeta> XD
10:42 < linkhyrule5> ME would help, but ME is currently getting his eyeballs exploded
10:42 < linkhyrule5> And then fixing them and sighing annoyedly
10:42 < linkhyrule5> because the Gauntlet is just kind of immature
10:42 < Kel> heee!
10:42 < Teceler> XD
10:42 < Thatwasademo> I don't think looking at the abyss would help the eyeball situation
10:42 < linkhyrule5> Meh
10:42 < linkhyrule5> He doesn't care much about the eyeball situation
10:42 < linkhyrule5> he's starting rethink having them at all now
10:42 < linkhyrule5> :P
10:43 < Thatwasademo> odds are a Starcursed Mass would just decide to malmutate him and that would end up exploding his eyes again
10:43 < linkhyrule5> but he wants to be human, so
10:43 < Teceler> XD
10:43 < linkhyrule5> Enh. If he actually cares he can ward his eyes
10:43 < Teceler> are you starting this or am I?
10:43 < linkhyrule5> but he doesn't, so his eyes explode
10:43 < linkhyrule5> I'm not actuall yready yet
10:43 < linkhyrule5> doing a dungeon in FFXIV
10:43 < Teceler> okay
10:43 < linkhyrule5> after I do that I'll make my account
10:43 < linkhyrule5> and probably start, yeah
10:45 < Thatwasademo> warning to astra: destroying the effect that put the Keeper in the Abyss would likely lead to her being stuck there for longer
10:45 < kappabeta> oh?
10:46 < Thatwasademo> by removing the association the gateways out of the abyss have to the place she was banished from
10:46 < kappabeta> hahahahahahaha
10:46 < Thatwasademo> so she couldn't literally walk out if that happened
10:46 < kappabeta> hee
10:47 < Thatwasademo> I mean, go ahead and destroy the concept of banishment or this particular banishment, but it's not going to help~
10:49 < linkhyrule5> Wait, hasn't the keeper already interacted with Astra?
10:49 < linkhyrule5> Or is this still giving her the benefit of the doubt?
10:49 < kappabeta> The keeper has interacted with Astra elsewhere, yes
10:49 < Thatwasademo> Yes, hence the mention of "highly distasteful destruction"
10:50 < linkhyrule5> ah, heh
10:50 < kappabeta> The keeper finds Astra's goals distasteful but like... Astra seems to be less inclined to inflict direct personal inconveniences on the keeper
10:51 < linkhyrule5> ha
10:51 < linkhyrule5> lol
10:51 < kappabeta> also astra is not actively taunting her
10:51 < kappabeta> disgruntled keeper is so disgruntled oh my god XD
10:52 < Teceler> disgruntled keeper is adorable
10:52 < Teceler> which description she may also find annoying, but
10:53 < sonatagreen> oh my god Xom is fantastic
10:53 < kappabeta> the keeper does not mind if you call her adorable
10:53 < kappabeta> I think the keeper may have just requested moderator intervention, in her own special way
10:53 < kappabeta> http://manyworlds.boards.net/post/2951/thread
10:56 < linkhyrule5> looool
10:56 < kappabeta> okay, can someone give me a "person who has never played this game before" overview of what kinds of strange creatures the keeper has been damaging with rocks
10:57 < Thatwasademo> http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Abyss at the bottom; those eight things plus basically any fantasy monster or humanoid
10:58 < Thatwasademo> wait no i misremembered; normal monsters don't tend to show up
10:58 < Thatwasademo> but undead, demons, draconians, and humanoid eyeballs
10:58 < Thatwasademo> er
10:58 < Thatwasademo> humanoid casters and eyeballs
10:58 < Thatwasademo> what am i typing
10:58 -!- PDV has joined #backstage
10:59 < Thatwasademo> Mother Starlight may have just heard a loud voice yell "NO!" (since that is a message Xom gives sometimes in lieu of acting)
10:59 < Thatwasademo> but Xom has indeed stopped posting in the thread
11:00 < Thatwasademo> and is now only taunting the Keeper verbally
11:00 < kappabeta> hahaha
11:01 < Thatwasademo> "humanoid eyeballs" though
11:02 < Thatwasademo> oh and at the very moment the keeper is about to actually find external help she gets teleported right next to a gate out because of course
11:04 < kappabeta> XD
11:05 < Thatwasademo> by "right next to" I mean "within line of sight of but she has to walk a fair distance"
11:06 < Thatwasademo> for maximum irritation factor
11:07 < linkhyrule5> she might jsut sit there and take the externa lhelp instead :P
11:08 < Thatwasademo> maybe!
11:08 < Thatwasademo> I am contemplating having another god show up and be quite cross with Xom
11:09 < Thatwasademo> either Zin or Elyvilon
11:09 < kappabeta> that would be hilarious
11:11 < Thatwasademo> OH NO
11:11 < kappabeta> ??
11:11 < Thatwasademo> dr. realist
11:11 < kappabeta> haha
11:11 < Thatwasademo> is there anything special i should be aware of that you can remember about interacting with dr realist
11:11 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
11:11 < kappabeta> hello again eva
11:12 < Eva> Hi again!
11:12 < Eva> Sorry for AFK!
11:12 < Eva> (Real life is being annoying.)
11:12 < kappabeta> The keeper is currently in negotiations with one of Aestrix's characters about rescue, but Aestrix had to go to class
11:12 < kappabeta> <3
11:14 < kappabeta> i should eat a food probably
11:16 < Thatwasademo> oh apparently xom even has a chance of randomly reverting a banishment
11:16 < kappabeta> The keeper has just been rescued by inkspot XD
11:16 < Thatwasademo> alrighty
11:17 < Thatwasademo> Xom finds this mildly amusing.
11:17 < Thatwasademo> xom has "accidentally" helped Dr. Realist with a nominally "bad" xom effect and, naturally, finds this hilarious
11:18 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: I just noticed ME is user 42. This amuses me
11:18 -!- Eva has quit
11:20 < Thatwasademo> that's great
11:20 < kappabeta> hmm i should definitely go eat a food. i shall do this thing. i am wise.
11:20 < Thatwasademo> go eat a food, i'd hate for you to starve to death
11:20 < Teceler> that is frequently a good idea, yes
11:20 < Thatwasademo> maybe you'll find some random fruit on the ground!
11:24 < sonatagreen> This choko is rather bland.
11:25 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - that is amazingly appropriate :P
11:25 < linkhyrule5> loool
11:25 < Teceler> I know, right? XD
11:25 < linkhyrule5> The equestion is clearly "what the heck is p with Entelechy"
11:25 < linkhyrule5> :P
11:26 < linkhyrule5> Anywho, I'm done with my thing now, making my dreamwidth account
11:26 < linkhyrule5> Minor problem
11:26 < linkhyrule5> I never decided what ME's actual name is.
11:26 < linkhyrule5> Also, I am awful at names.
11:26 < linkhyrule5> Ideas?
11:26 < kappabeta> well, what are the parameters here?
11:26 < Teceler> well, what is the naming style that he would have a name in?
11:26 < Teceler> that
11:26 < linkhyrule5> Mm.
11:27 < linkhyrule5> I only have rough ideas of his backstory before he became a mage
11:27 < linkhyrule5> and he doesn't really feel like the kind ofperson who would bother changing his name
11:27 < linkhyrule5> except maybe to incorporate titles or something
11:28 < linkhyrule5> So, lifebuilding.
11:28 < kappabeta> did he start out as a human?
11:28 < linkhyrule5> He started human
11:28 < linkhyrule5> in fact he's arguably still human in mindset
11:28 < linkhyrule5> just, bigger
11:28 < linkhyrule5> also not confined t oa body.
11:28 < linkhyrule5> He really really tries to stay human, but he doesn't always succeed
11:29 < linkhyrule5> I'd peg him as somewhere trans/ex human on the Eclipse scale?
11:29 < kappabeta> did he start out in a place broadly like Earth or not much like Earth?
11:29 < linkhyrule5> Mm.
11:29 < linkhyrule5> Not too much like Earth, ultimately
11:29 < linkhyrule5> Vague similarities, but, like
11:29 < linkhyrule5> not more like Earth than Middle-Earth is like Earth
11:29 < Teceler> was it an Earth in the technical sense?
11:29 < Teceler> ah
11:29 < kappabeta> okay then, in that case you probably want a randomish sequence of pronounceable sounds
11:29 < linkhyrule5> Yes, actually
11:30 < linkhyrule5> Also, I'mthinking that he may have started as a peasant or something in some random time period
11:30 < linkhyrule5> and didn't pick up magic until after his first "life"
11:30 < Teceler> but probably not a name in any of the relevant traditions
11:30 < kappabeta> I can generate randomish sequences of pronounceable sounds!
11:30 < linkhyrule5> (AKA: he hit a calamity, died, got picked up by one of the many, many attepmts at mass resurrection and cross-time refugees, and then went "Magic is awesome and I want to learn it," went from there.)
11:31 < Teceler> (d'aww)
11:31 < linkhyrule5> So in that case his names should be pretty noticeably different in style
11:31 < Teceler> okay, so the question is sort of what kind of pattern you want
11:31 < sonatagreen> Calavad. Egannath. Scrett.
11:31 < linkhyrule5> his first would be something reasonable in his birth age and his last name would be something reaasonable in his next
11:31 < kappabeta> "Teosto" "Gevasyag" "Estoqutsun" "Putstsed" "Tsu" "Efachob" "Vaqpooy" "Taye" "Evuly" "Shichxaxrotszo"
11:31 < Teceler> heavily consonantal, heavily vowelic?
11:31 < kappabeta> i have a language generator
11:32 < linkhyrule5> I'm not as suprirsed as I would have thought I'd be about that
11:32 < kappabeta> "Aprail" "Iei" "Itrohe" "Graieh" "Praia" "Raraiaipri" "Eimin" "Eiea" "Tin" "Aoei"
11:32 < Teceler> mainly stops/fricatives/approximates?
11:32 < linkhyrule5> Not sure
11:32 < Teceler> ...kappa, which language generator is that?
11:32 < kappabeta> by a "language generator" I mean a thing where I can write in some sound rules and get randomly generated words out of it
11:32 < Teceler> mm, fair enough
11:32 < kappabeta> I wrote it in Racket
11:32 < Teceler> ah
11:32 < linkhyrule5> Usually when I pick out names I go "this is totally not a reference to X in Y language"
11:33 < Teceler> there are some out there that can do that
11:33 < linkhyrule5> like, my Puella Magi character has a name that literally means "Death on the Witch's Night," because lol Walpurgisnacht and wahtnot
11:33 < sonatagreen> I use Lojban as my go-to Foreign-Sounding Language
11:33 < sonatagreen> if he had a meaningful name, what are some things it might mean?
11:33 < linkhyrule5> Hm.
11:34 < linkhyrule5> Short, but not brusque.
11:34 < Teceler> so 2/3 syllables?
11:34 < linkhyrule5> Elegant feel, so more vowels than consonants, but not all vowels like, I dunno, an Elcenia vampire name
11:34 < linkhyrule5> yeah
11:34 < Teceler> diphthongs?
11:35 < linkhyrule5> Ditto. Maybe one. Should look pretty pronounceable in English
11:35 < linkhyrule5> Last name can be weirder.
11:35 < Teceler> hm
11:35 < sonatagreen> Tohu. Tortei. Khulta. Sutra. Skami.
11:36 < linkhyrule5> Last name will probably have punctuation marks
11:36 < linkhyrule5> (lol Tohu)
11:36 < kappabeta> "Uleladei" "Grehai" "Karkruah" "To" "Reireir" "Kremreial" "Aelainan" "Uehdeah" "Aa" "A"
11:36 < Teceler> elegant probably means more fricatives and approximates than stops
11:36 < linkhyrule5> MOre Sutra/Tortei. Probably no k's. I like Aelainan.
11:37 < linkhyrule5> Mm.
11:37 < linkhyrule5> (thanks fyi)
11:38 < linkhyrule5> (El-ahrairah - no, wait, wrong universe)
11:39 < sonatagreen> Aisinian. Seyallat. Tarras.
11:39 < linkhyrule5> Elarin - no, wait, that one's taken.
11:39 < linkhyrule5> Aelian. I like Aelian.
11:39 < Kel> My brain insists that this is pronounced "alien"
11:39 < linkhyrule5> Ailian, Aisilian, something like that
11:39 < linkhyrule5> Aisilian then
11:39 < Teceler> I'm thinking something like Vowel(vowel)[approximation/fricative]+Vowel[approximation/fricative]+
11:39 < sonatagreen> Congratulations, it's a boy!
11:40 < kappabeta> <3
11:40 < Teceler> XD
11:40 < linkhyrule5> looool
11:40 < Teceler> a little late there, apparantly
11:40 < linkhyrule5> well we've still got a last name
11:40 < Teceler> so you said much weirder for the last name
11:40 < linkhyrule5> Should be an obviously different style
11:40 < linkhyrule5> which in this case means yeah, harsher, more consonants
11:40 < linkhyrule5> maybe throw in an apostrophe or an exclamation point in there somewhere
11:41 < Teceler> you mentioned something about clicks? :P
11:41 < linkhyrule5> Clicks?
11:41 < linkhyrule5> Did I?
11:41 < Thatwasademo> !
11:41 < Teceler> well, you said punctuation marks
11:41 < linkhyrule5> Yeah
11:41 < linkhyrule5> in that case, yeah
11:41 < Teceler> but generally IPA uses those two for clicks
11:42 < linkhyrule5> !kthallen just randomly came to mind
11:42 < linkhyrule5> not quite right
11:42 < kappabeta> my generators don't exclamation marks, but here's some nonsense from three different rulesets
11:42 < Thatwasademo> wait, what's this about the k!th allen?
11:42 < kappabeta> "Vue" "Ecaetaxas" "Ip" "Et" "Etep" "Obshinke" "Egmidu" "I" "Ugve" "Aneach" "Rocithoshich" "Mydxutsi" "Lyyku" "Hyshci" "Ge" "Sasuf" "Zeli" "Ostjyst" "Qesh" "Yst" "Can" "Okka" "Nufekumic" "Esaolndod" "Ifsunaaf" "Ufconavuf" "Lorefi" "Rema" "Catufpadu" "Kusidoweg"
11:43 < sonatagreen> Gatskami. Sutmenl. Cizryxulta.
11:45 < linkhyrule5> Rok'suchi?
11:45 < Teceler> sounds good
11:46 < linkhyrule5> Aisilian Rok'suchi
11:46 < sonatagreen> ^_^
11:46 < linkhyrule5> Alright. Sure, why not.
11:46 < linkhyrule5> That works
11:46 < kappabeta> <3
11:46 < kappabeta> success!
11:47 < sonatagreen> o-/-<
11:47 < sonatagreen> o-\-<
11:47 < sonatagreen> o-/-<
11:47 * Teceler peers as these strange emotes
11:47 < linkhyrule5> loool
11:47 < sonatagreen> dancing!
11:47 < Teceler> ah
11:47 < Thatwasademo> stickmen!
11:48 < linkhyrule5> Oh, random number between 1-12
11:48 < Teceler> 9
11:48 < linkhyrule5> Random number bweteeen 1-30
11:48 < Teceler> use an actual rng if you want an actual random number
11:48 < Teceler> 21
11:48 < linkhyrule5> I don't
11:48 < Teceler> okay then
11:49 < linkhyrule5> He was born on the 21st day of the 9 month
11:49 < linkhyrule5> and the year is totally meaningless for about five different reasons
11:49 < Teceler> good, because humans are not very good RNGs
11:49 < Teceler> XD
11:49 < linkhyrule5> Oh I know
11:49 < linkhyrule5> But this isn't really random, this is just I'm too lazy to think of ab irthdate
11:50 < linkhyrule5> At some point there is going to be the equivalent of firing a massive wave motion cannon
11:50 < linkhyrule5> and I want someone to play this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPI9HUZjcb8&list=PL0D514FA360F68689&index=29
11:50 < linkhyrule5> *is on an ArT music kick
11:50 < linkhyrule5> because it's /all awesome/*
11:50 < linkhyrule5> Also someone listen to EXEC_CHRONICLE_KEY and tell me it's as awesome as I think it is :P
11:51 -!- kappabeta is now known as kappaway
11:52 < sonatagreen> he shares his birthday with H.G. Wells
11:52 < linkhyrule5> A....
11:53 < linkhyrule5> The War of Worlds.
11:53 < linkhyrule5> Welp.
11:53 < linkhyrule5> That's not ominous at all.
11:53 < sonatagreen> also Chuck Jones
11:53 < linkhyrule5> So, less tripods, more Marvin the Martian?
11:54 < linkhyrule5> I can go with that.
11:54 < linkhyrule5> :P
11:54 < sonatagreen> ...there was *supposed* to be an earth-shattering kaboom.
11:55 < linkhyrule5> haahahaha
11:55 < linkhyrule5> Where's my earth-shattering kaboom?
11:55 * sonatagreen foods
11:56 < Teceler> XD
11:56 * Teceler debates using her regular dw account vs creating the one for Thorn's template she's been meaning to for a while vs creating one specifically for this purpose or something?
11:57 < Kel> Maybe a template one, unless you find making dw accounts really easy?
11:58 < Teceler> dw accounts are really not hard to make. Icons, on the other hand, are tricky
11:58 < Kel> Yeah
11:58 < Kel> (what does steve carslberg look like???? AHHH!)
11:58 < Kel> Do you already have someone in mind for Thorn?
11:58 < Teceler> if I make a not-template one it will probably be some kind of generic no-character one
11:58 < linkhyrule5> oh geez
11:59 < linkhyrule5> I'll need to find icons too don't I
11:59 < linkhyrule5> ergh
11:59 < Teceler> because exsurgent virus does not need its own account :P
11:59 < linkhyrule5> I'm kind of tempted to just steal my face from ffxiv because that's already generated
11:59 < linkhyrule5> loooooool
11:59 < linkhyrule5> that would be *so creepy*
11:59 < Thatwasademo> haha at least if I end up making a dreamwidth account for viridian because of MWF shenanigans icons will be super easy
11:59 < Thatwasademo> smiling face, frowning face, upside down face
11:59 < Kel> Viridian has a very cute fac
12:00 < Kel> *face
12:00 < Teceler> well. Thorn started out as a Shepard, and her face in ME3 came out pretty well, so I have just been using that for her template
12:00 < Teceler> *Thorn's template
12:01 < Teceler> that may be considered cheating, but :P
12:01 < linkhyrule5> loool
12:05 < linkhyrule5> yeah if Ihave to find actual actor pictures for all these that's going to take forever
12:05 < linkhyrule5> hey do you know if icons update when you udpate the icon?
12:06 < linkhyrule5> Because if so I can use ab unch of frownyfaces and whatnot and then change the icon later
12:06 < Teceler> if you change the default icon
12:06 < Teceler> or if you change which icon is linked to the keyword
12:06 < Teceler> I think so, yeah
12:06 < linkhyrule5> excellent
12:06 < linkhyrule5> let's d othat then
12:06 < Teceler> try the dw faq, that would have a more definite answer
12:06 < linkhyrule5> because I'm going to bedin a few hours
12:07 < linkhyrule5> (it is currently 10am my time
12:07 < linkhyrule5> I did warn you my sleep schedule wasweird :P )
12:07 < Kel> OMG
12:07 < Kel> yes go to sleep soon!
12:07 < Teceler> I would tell you to go get some sleep
12:07 < Teceler> but it sounds like that would not actually be helpful
12:07 < Teceler> okay, I think I've got everyone who's posted at least once on here.
12:07 < Teceler> [gdocs link redacted]
12:08 < Kel> you should go hide from the bed beast, if you are in need of sleep
12:08 < Teceler> (sonatagreen, if you could edit that out of the log so that I don't have to lock down the permissions later that would be nice)
12:08 < Kel> Nice!
12:08 < linkhyrule5> loool
12:09 < linkhyrule5> yeah I'm going to bed around 1pm
12:09 < linkhyrule5> I do need to stay up for lunch or something
12:09 < linkhyrule5> or whatever you want to call it :P
12:09 < Teceler> dinner? :P
12:09 < sonatagreen> sure
12:09 < linkhyrule5> something like that
12:09 < Kel> I think it depends on what kind of food you have?
12:09 < Teceler> for people reading the log, if you want the link, message me
12:10 < Thatwasademo> fixed a few things about my chars
12:10 < Teceler> or someone else who was here
12:10 < Teceler> that is the point, I was just filling it in based on what I could remember offhand and what was on the profiles
12:10 < Thatwasademo> good
12:10 < Thatwasademo> that means i acted correctly
12:11 < Kel> Should we add in things to blank spaces we have the answers to?
12:11 < Teceler> I think I left CV's world blank because that was the ship not the original world, and I wasn't sure which it should be
12:11 < Teceler> if you want to, certainly
12:12 -!- PDV has quit
12:12 < linkhyrule5> Should I mean ME's demiplane "Walpurgisnacht"?
12:12 < Kel> Is magic yes/no or description?
12:12 < Teceler> I kind of ran out of steam around getting the basic list up
12:12 < Teceler> magic can be yes/no or level or system. Probably level?
12:13 < Teceler> if you think of more things that should be on there add them, etc
12:13 < linkhyrule5> I hope you like Entelechy's "problem" field
12:13 < Kel> Sorry, I'm not sure what that means?
12:13 < linkhyrule5> because there's now ay I'm fitting mroe than that in the field
12:13 < Kel> the level
12:13 < Teceler> like, a low magic setting, a high magic setting?
12:13 < Teceler> I am not very coherent
12:13 < Teceler> or a no/non magicsetting, obviously
12:14 < Thatwasademo> Well, you could say Vearth too but she wouldn't consider that her home currently
12:14 * linkhyrule5 is waiting for someone to comment on Entelechy's problems
12:14 < Kel> So if everyone has a specific magic, it's a high magic setting, or if it has unusually powerful magic, or something else?
12:14 < Kel> "lots"
12:14 < Teceler> "lots"
12:14 < Kel> heh
12:14 < linkhyrule5> :D
12:14 < Kel> I was kinda expecting it to say "yes"
12:14 < Teceler> I think we may want a seperate page for specific magic systems
12:15 < Teceler> I'm thinking something like the distinction between low and high fantasy, but that may not be very useful, hm
12:15 < Teceler> *apparently thinking
12:16 < Teceler> if we want to just do magic yes/no that would work, or a rough meter by power level or influence on the setting
12:16 < Thatwasademo> maybe world notes
12:17 < Thatwasademo> a "brief world notes" column
12:17 < Thatwasademo> thank you
12:17 < Kel> If the authors have identified themselves in the OOC thread, can we add them?
12:18 < Thatwasademo> yes
12:18 < Thatwasademo> i would think so
12:18 < Kel> okay!
12:18 < Teceler> maybe, yeah, I was trying to put columns for the kind of things that would go in that, if they go in categories that will come up, but 'miscellaneous world notes' maybe, yeah
12:18 < Thatwasademo> since that is public information
12:18 < Teceler> my next step would have been to go through there, yes
12:18 < Thatwasademo> maybe a "resources" field
12:19 < Adelene> I think magic'd be too tough to do to more precision than yes/no, like, Carp is pretty ambiguous on magic level.
12:19 < Teceler> yeah, that makes sense
12:19 < Kel> Is spiderspider a denizen of the 45th world?
12:20 < Teceler> I don't know, they didn't post in that thread, so
12:20 < Kel> Oh also, has Thatwasademo confirmed to be Orz?
12:20 < Thatwasademo> no
12:20 < Thatwasademo> I am definitely not Orz
12:20 < Thatwasademo> I don't know enough about Star Control II for starters
12:20 < Teceler> Orz is the person behind Grigori & co
12:21 < Teceler> I think
12:21 < Teceler> there was something about enjoying being mysterious with Argus
12:21 < Thatwasademo> i hope you like xom's problems and resources fields
12:21 < Kel> Apparently Tulip is Undrained
12:22 < linkhyrule5> I see
12:22 < Teceler> that is funny but not actually helpful for people wanting information :P
12:22 < linkhyrule5> I was kind of expecting Problems: Xom
12:22 < linkhyrule5> and Resources: Xom
12:22 < Thatwasademo> it's the most informative thing I could say
12:22 < Teceler> ah
12:22 < Thatwasademo> his problems are that he finds problems hilarious
12:22 < Thatwasademo> his resources are that he finds resources hilarious
12:22 < Thatwasademo> these are literally true
12:23 < Teceler> well, it isn't just his world though, right?
12:23 < Thatwasademo> no i guess
12:23 < Teceler> it's not a big deal
12:24 < Thatwasademo> let me make the resources field slightly more informative
12:24 < Adelene> I assume we're keeping this to what our characters know about?
12:24 -!- kappaway is now known as kappabeta
12:24 * kappabeta kappaplops
12:24 < Thatwasademo> hi kappa!
12:24 < Adelene> *kappahugs*
12:24 < Thatwasademo> we have a spreadsheet now somehow!
12:24 < Thatwasademo> strange google magic, i suspect
12:24 < Teceler> I mean, given I included players this is kind of an ooc reference, so if you want to include things that have been revealed oocly that's fine
12:25 < Teceler> XD
12:25 < Adelene> Like
12:25 < Kel> welcome back!
12:25 < Adelene> Carp *contains* adamantine
12:25 < Adelene> Which might be interesting
12:25 < kappabeta> adamantine?
12:25 < Adelene> But Lurker doesnt know that.
12:25 < Teceler> oh right, because it's DF-based
12:25 < Adelene> (special metal)
12:25 < Teceler> do you expect that to be relevant at any point, I think might be the question
12:25 < kappabeta> also: what do i put for nexus magic, it has none native but hella borrowed
12:25 < Teceler> 'borrowed'? :P
12:26 < Thatwasademo> "Borrowed"
12:26 < Thatwasademo> heh
12:26 < Teceler> or something along those lines, yeah
12:26 < Adelene> I'm not planning on it being relevant but if the world catches fire in that sort of way I'm not going to complain.
12:26 < Teceler> hm, we probably want a 'source' column
12:26 < Thatwasademo> what if someone builds a massive series of levers
12:26 < Thatwasademo> probably yes
12:27 < Teceler> obviously a bunch of these are original but for those that aren't that would be useful
12:27 < Kel> maybe "non-native"
12:27 < Adelene> I'd put, like, "QDS, Facet" for Nexus's magic entry.
12:27 * Teceler giggles at Dungeon's 'problems entry'
12:27 < sonatagreen> It feels like, there are people in Nexus with magic, but it's not widespread enough to be really a fact about the world as such
12:28 < Teceler> hm, do we want a 'non-native magic' column for that kind of thing, that has been a thing
12:28 < Thatwasademo> don't really think so
12:28 < Thatwasademo> just mention it in magic
12:28 < Thatwasademo> oh hey magic systems
12:28 < Teceler> yes, but it is very a thing for the relevant characters, and, like, Facet has native and non-native now
12:28 < Teceler> I'm still working on that shush :P
12:29 < Kel> For ones with current levels of technology, should we put "modern"?
12:29 < Teceler> sounds good
12:29 < Thatwasademo> probably
12:29 < Kel> okay great!
12:29 < Kel> (I have become very distracted from face-hunting)
12:29 < Teceler> sorry
12:29 < linkhyrule5> I'm going to say "tech: magitech"
12:29 < linkhyrule5> because all of Entelechy's tech has its idisyncratic magic system worked into it
12:30 < Teceler> I guess you could say that counts
12:30 < linkhyrule5> Like, airconditioning happens because the water pipes are shaped into a spell of ice
12:30 < Thatwasademo> is the Souleye high tech or Very high tech
12:30 < linkhyrule5> and that's not even counting things liike the teleporting organizations
12:31 < Teceler> well, --no, the checkpoints are not magic, hm
12:31 < Thatwasademo> like there is the fact that it is literally an interdimensional spaceship
12:31 < Thatwasademo> and Nexus is considered high tech
12:32 < Teceler> but -- I don't know, beyond that set of things what is their general tech level? Because that's relevant too
12:33 < Thatwasademo> well
12:33 * Thatwasademo runs away
12:34 < Teceler> Part of the thing with Nexus is that their high tech is very -- wait come back!
12:35 < Thatwasademo> (it is underspecified)
12:35 < Teceler> I mean, the fact that they can build an interdimensional spaceship is probably relevant, but the checkpoints might not be until they find a way to reproduce them?
12:36 < Thatwasademo> eh they have fifty to a hundred
12:36 < Thatwasademo> but no it's not relevant to tech level
12:36 < Teceler> I think the high / very high is a question of 'do you think they can build more things like the interdimensional spaceship, or was that a once off'
12:36 < Thatwasademo> I think they're a small group of people relative to the group that made the ship
12:36 < Teceler> okay, magic systems, what should go on the magic systems page people?
12:37 < Teceler> I'm including Vearth in 'they' here, I think
12:37 < Thatwasademo> The inhabitants of Vearth could definitely make other things
12:37 < Thatwasademo> Given time and a need
12:39 < kappabeta> someone has just run afoul of The Extra Line Breaks Bug
12:39 < kappabeta> oh they fixed it
12:39 < Teceler> if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, that thing is so annoying
12:39 < kappabeta> If you edit a cell's text and backspace up to the beginning of the cell, you get an extra line break at the end
12:39 < Teceler> oh, is /that/ what causes it
12:40 < kappabeta> yes
12:40 < kappabeta> you can fix it by getting rid of the extra line break in any way that doesn't involve backspacing to the beginning of the cell again
12:40 < Teceler> I mostly just cut out the text blanked the cell and pasted it back in, that worked
12:41 < Kel> it is *so* irritating
12:41 < Kel> what goes in the magic systems page?
12:42 < Teceler> that was what I was trying to decide
12:42 < Kel> how universal it is, how powerful it is (on a scale? or just no/some/hella/infinity? or something else?)
12:42 < Kel> What it does
12:43 < Teceler> how portable it is, probably
12:43 < Teceler> significant limitations
12:43 < Teceler> resources used or required
12:43 < Adelene> Whether it can be used outside the world, whether/under what conditions people from outside the world can use it
12:43 < Adelene> (I need to decide the latter of those for Carp)
12:43 < Teceler> that was what I meant by portability, yeah
12:44 < Teceler> although whether dropping someone in the world, or having them live their for a certain time gives them the ability to get it is probably also relevant
12:44 < Adelene> That's what I was trying to get at with 'under what conditions', yeah
12:45 < Teceler> ah
12:45 < Adelene> (I do think you have to jump through some sort of hoop to use Carp's magic if you're not from there, but I don't know what exactly.)
12:46 < Teceler> How widespread/heavily used it is in the original world?
12:47 < Adelene> Varies, mostly based on how well the relevant civilization does at teaching it.
12:47 < Adelene> er
12:47 < Adelene> I misread that, don't mind me.
12:47 < Adelene> :P
12:48 < Kel> So how well it goes to other worlds is portability, how easy it is to catch is, what contagion?
12:48 < Teceler> that was what I was thinking
12:48 < Kel> communicability?
12:48 < Teceler> if you have a better word-- mm, that is a good word
12:48 < Kel> Something starting with a P
12:48 < Kel> like everything else!
12:48 < Teceler> XD
12:49 < Thatwasademo> something starting with a P, you say?
12:49 < Thatwasademo> http://souleye.se/pppppp
12:49 < Kel> heh
12:50 < Teceler> that is not pronouncable, that does not count :P
12:50 < Thatwasademo> no look at the track names
12:51 < Thatwasademo> like Powerup
12:51 < Teceler> ah
12:57 < linkhyrule5> Teceler, my accounts set up, I'm giong to start writing my first post soon
12:57 < linkhyrule5> dunno how much I'll actually RP before getting to bed but getting started's usually the hard prat
12:57 < Teceler> okay, I need to decide what I'm doing for account
12:57 < Teceler> yeah
12:57 < linkhyrule5> Once I go to bed I probably won't be up until "tomorrow," though, so
12:57 < Teceler> noted
13:00 < Teceler> okay, how are we distinguishing portability and communicability here, should I just delete portability?
13:00 < Kel> portability, does it work in other worlds
13:00 < Teceler> I guess portability could be more 'does it work elsewhere' and communicabilty 'can other people get it'
13:00 < Thatwasademo> portability is use within in other worlds, communicability is use by non-natives
13:00 < kappabeta> portability I think maybe how well the magic works other places, communicability how easy to more people the magic?
13:00 < Teceler> hee
13:00 < Kel> hahaha
13:01 < Teceler> okay, apparantly we agree on that
13:01 < Teceler> 'user-unfriendly omnipotence' XD
13:01 < kappabeta> XD
13:01 < Kel> "alarming"
13:01 < kappabeta> :D
13:02 < Teceler> also that, yeah
13:02 < Kel> I am taking a break from spreadsheet to try again to find poor DL a face.
13:02 < sonatagreen> e.g. vampire hearer-ing is portable but not communicable?
13:02 < kappabeta> yeah
13:02 < Teceler> is SO2 used in the molecular sense or am I missing something?
13:02 < Teceler> that is sensible
13:02 < kappabeta> and if you have CC transfer capabilities, wizardry is super communicable and not portable at all
13:03 < Kel> yes in the molecular sense
13:03 < Teceler> okay
13:03 < Kel> Like the sand in their world is made of SO2, it would not work nearly as well with a different composition of sand
13:03 < Teceler> ...ah!
13:05 < Thatwasademo> how do i describe the power level of a generally-used-in-combat magic system
13:05 < Teceler> does Swish's world actually have magic or should I trim that off this page?
13:05 < kappabeta> Swish has
13:05 < Thatwasademo> also I just made another character due to concerns about Xom
13:05 < Teceler> okay
13:05 < kappabeta> Why is Nexus this page
13:05 < kappabeta> XD
13:05 < Teceler> I thought I got Nexus off this page
13:06 < Teceler> did I miss that on the second pass
13:06 < Teceler> apparantly I did
13:06 < kappabeta> now nexus is off this page
13:06 < Teceler> good
13:06 < Teceler> possibly we should have a tech page that Nexus should be on, but not this one
13:06 < kappabeta> XD
13:07 < linkhyrule5> I'll go ahead and put Entelechy under "alarming", shall I?
13:07 < Teceler> that is probably a safe ruling
13:07 < linkhyrule5> :D
13:07 < Teceler> even if it isn't very portable
13:07 < kappabeta> XD
13:08 < Teceler> Are there any objections to declaring cape powers magic for the purposes of this particular page? I guess they're more individual than most of the systems we have here
13:09 < Kel> I think it seems reasonable
13:09 < Kel> I'm also not at all sure how to classify Night Vale effects, and individual abilities
13:09 < Thatwasademo> I still have no idea how powerful to call crawl's magic
13:09 < Teceler> yeah, that is complicated
13:09 < Teceler> oh, sorry
13:10 < Teceler> well, how powerful is it versus conventional combat?
13:10 < Thatwasademo> Impressive but balanced?
13:11 < Teceler> has it seen any use on the level of armies or do you have any idea how it would scale up?
13:12 < linkhyrule5> Dungeon: "Seplls do things"
13:12 < linkhyrule5> loooool
13:12 < Thatwasademo> level 9 (the highest level) spells include a lot of powerful AOE, Dragon's Call (which summons a Dragon), and Singularity (which makes a temporary black hole)
13:13 < Thatwasademo> level 8 also has some powerful Necromancy spells like Death's Door (caster is at 1 HP but cannot die for a duration) and Necromutation (lichform), as well as a spell titled Summon Horrible Things
13:13 < kappabeta> hmm you know what, I'm putting a column at the start for "facilitates generalized interdimensional travel? Y/N"
13:13 < Teceler> that is impressive
13:13 < kappabeta> sound good?
13:13 < Thatwasademo> Magic is probably best at taking out crowds
13:14 < Teceler> maybe mid-high? I don't know, other opinons?
13:14 < Kel> sounds good
13:14 < Teceler> maybe 'interdimensional travel y/n', but, yeah, good idea
13:14 < kappabeta> generalized to avoid edge-casing like, say, the keeper can bring you *to* her world, sort of, but not put you anywhere else
13:15 < linkhyrule5> Mm
13:15 < linkhyrule5> What do we do about Entelechy?
13:15 < linkhyrule5> It /can/ put you in otehr world's/Truths
13:15 < Teceler> how prohibitive is the cost?
13:15 < linkhyrule5> but the usual "haha pay in stars" rider applies
13:15 < Thatwasademo> actually hang on I need to make multiple rows for Zot
13:15 < Thatwasademo> because there are several magic systems
13:15 < kappabeta> ahaha
13:15 < linkhyrule5> well, okay, not stars, but planets might be a thig
13:15 < Teceler> Zot (Magic System)?
13:16 < linkhyrule5> looool
13:16 < Kel> I've been separating magic systems by commas
13:16 < Kel> For "generalized..travel" would that include things like portals might unpredictably open to other worlds, but not in a way most people can use?
13:16 < kappabeta> I think if there are a lot of very different ones in a world it makes sense to multi-row
13:16 < kappabeta> hmmmmmmmm
13:16 < Teceler> I mean, that works too? but then space issues
13:17 < kappabeta> let's say no
13:17 < kappabeta> wrt unpredictable portals
13:18 < Teceler> Erebus might have interdimensional travel (I haven't decided), but in a 'you can only get this if you work for the arguable Big Bad of the setting' way
13:20 < Teceler> does that count?
13:21 < kappabeta> idk, what's erebus again XD
13:22 < Teceler> Cassiel's world
13:22 < kappabeta> aha
13:22 < Teceler> I might decide to call it something else later because that is technically /part/ of the world, but
13:22 < sonatagreen> Planet England
13:25 -!- PDV has joined #backstage
13:29 < Kel> can't Esthfora sorta share her protection from mental harm?
13:29 < Thatwasademo> yeesh zot's magic system(s) are hard to summarize
13:29 < kappabeta> hmm but like
13:30 < kappabeta> I would think communicability is more about "can you make more people able to do this magic"
13:30 < kappabeta> not "can you do things with this magic that have effects on people"
13:30 < Teceler> yeah
13:30 < Teceler> that /might/ be portablity?
13:30 < kappabeta> when esthfora protects people, is thing
13:30 < kappabeta> Also! Thing Dotted Lines Leaf happen?
13:30 < kappabeta> i'm so not words sorry
13:30 < Thatwasademo> that sounds more like function
13:31 < Kel> Yes I want to do the thing!
13:31 < Kel> I am still trying to find a face for steve
13:31 < Kel> I think I have enough information to *maybe* write janice, not at all enough to write abby
13:32 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - how goes facecasting?
13:33 < Teceler> ...I got distracted
13:33 < Kel> I feel you
13:33 < Teceler> And I don't think I need to do facecasting? Maybe some generic stuff if generic account, which is probably the best option here, but that's more images
13:34 < Teceler> but I need something to call the account, hm
13:35 < linkhyrule5> lol
13:36 < Kel> Does anyone here know who Steve Carlsberg looks like?
13:37 < Teceler> Are you narrowing by ex. hair color or do you not know that either?
13:38 < Kel> I do not know hair color, although I know he has hair. My brain thinks he /maybe/ has glasses
13:39 < Kel> and also he needs to have at least one face in which he is very afraid
13:39 < Teceler> no canon statements that you can work off of? (I am hesitant to go looking for a wiki because spoilers but there probably is one?)
13:39 < Kel> he apparently has "awful taste in shoes"
13:39 < Kel> and he is an adult
13:40 < Teceler> but not much that is useful for this, huh
13:40 < Kel> yeah.
13:40 < Kel> My brain's main response to questions of "what does he look like" is "Not Like That, try again"
13:40 < Adelene> I have always thought that he had black hair even though I know very very little about WTNV.
13:40 < kappabeta> in case helps: http://www.hollow-art.com/searchsite http://asylums.insanejournal.com/pb_updates/
13:40 < Teceler> will running through generic hair colors help your brain or not?
13:41 < Kel> I'll try that
13:41 < Kel> thanks
13:41 < Kel> !'
13:41 -!- PDV_ has joined #backstage
13:44 -!- PDV has quit
13:44 < Kel> (more actors need to make at least one afraid face)
13:44 -!- PDV_ has quit
13:44 < Kel> (and at least one happy face)
13:45 < Adelene> http://www.hollow-art.com/base/dylan-mcdermott-american-horror-story
13:45 < Teceler> (I would not expect that to be a problem, huh)
13:47 < Kel> looking through these
13:55 < Kel> Oh no it's almost 1 I actually have stuff I was supposed to do I'll be back in a bit sorry
13:56 < Kel> how did that even happen?
13:56 < Teceler> good luck with your stuff
13:56 < Kel> thanks!
14:08 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: I should have the account ready soon
14:26 < Thatwasademo> yeesh, how much trouble can one little standard Banish effect cause
14:30 < linkhyrule5> Teceler Poke!
14:30 < linkhyrule5> It's like a Falcon Punch, except not
14:30 < linkhyrule5> at all
14:30 < Teceler> well, if,say, you banished an airplane pilot in the age before autopilot
14:31 < Teceler> yes?
14:32 < Teceler> I am trying to icons at the moment, it is proving more difficult than anticipated. Any ideas where to look for a good 'science' icon, preferably an omiious-looking vial of something?
14:32 < Kel> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/DetalleNivelDeBurbuja.jpg
14:32 < Kel> ?
14:33 < Kel> I am taking a short break from doing productive stuff
14:33 < Thatwasademo> kel that is obviously a level
14:34 < Kel> Okay but it looks ominously sciencey
14:34 < Kel> sorry
14:34 < kappabeta> it does
14:34 < kappabeta> it's a very ominous level
14:34 < Thatwasademo> it didn't to me because I noticed that it was a level too quickly
14:34 < Teceler> XD
14:35 < linkhyrule5> How about a nuclear radioactivity sign?
14:35 < Teceler> ...maybe a biohazard sign
14:35 < linkhyrule5> Any ofthese work?
14:35 < linkhyrule5> https://www.google.com/search?q=bubbling+flask&newwindow=1&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CMtkVeSINoXEogSYlIKoCA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1019
14:36 < sonatagreen> http://media.hamptonroads.com/cache/files/images/196601.jpg
14:36 < Kel> Not sure what kind of ominous science you need but theres this
14:36 < Kel> https://www.flickr.com/photos/sandialabs/6288961527
14:36 < Kel> which is infact ominously sciencey
14:36 < Kel> or this?
14:36 < Kel> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Z-pinch_H-gamma.jpg
14:37 < sonatagreen> https://terrordaves.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/img_18661.jpg https://m1.behance.net/rendition/modules/44090937/disp/24d112bd3e72342c4bdcee2cce15e6fa.jpg
14:37 < Thatwasademo> APPROXIMATE VOLUME
14:38 < Kel> loud?
14:40 < Kel> (I think I am going with Dylan McDermott's face, because my brain does not loudly scream that he is not DL, and he makes most of the right faces, thanks!)
14:41 < Kel> (and now I'm going back to doing what I'm supposed to)
14:41 < kappabeta> <3
14:42 < Thatwasademo> (so, a note: the forum is not only immune to magic but now also not magically conditionable-upon, it would seem)
14:44 < sonatagreen> that's not how I meant that
14:44 < sonatagreen> it's possible I misunderstood the mechanism
14:45 < sonatagreen> it's not like Libby's ward on Lazarus where he can't be targeted by wishes, it's like if magic is electricity then the forum is nonconductive
14:46 < Thatwasademo> I had to come up with an explanation on the fly for both why Xom was able to use his main effects on people who haven't actually worshiped him, and why he shouldn't be able to in the future
14:46 < Thatwasademo> zot god effects certainly weren't being conducted through the forum
14:47 < Thatwasademo> the forum only let xom know that these people existed
14:47 < sonatagreen> I read the thing about direct altar connection as meaning that MS sort of conflated herself with the zot gods by mistake so her users counted as their worshippers
14:48 < Thatwasademo> not quite through MS conflating herself with the zot gods, but users counting as worshipers is definitely what happened
14:48 < Thatwasademo> I think I'm going with "their names were 'inscribed' on the altars, and this is retroactively how worship is declared"
14:49 < Thatwasademo> and the new law requires a full sentence
14:50 < Thatwasademo> also why does my spellcheck say it's not worshippers
14:50 < Thatwasademo> "worshippers" definitely looks better than "worshipers"
14:51 < sonatagreen> better new law: it has to be inscribed *by the worshipper*
14:52 < kappabeta> yeah
14:52 < Thatwasademo> that would have had the same result
14:52 < Thatwasademo> well
14:52 < sonatagreen> or actually combine both
14:52 < Thatwasademo> actually I think that was already in place?
14:53 < Thatwasademo> in any case, it makes a lot of sense for the forum to now not provide information directly to magic that is not specifically a crucial part of the manifestation
14:54 < Thatwasademo> since that would be the exact patch necessary for this issue
14:54 -!- Teceler has quit
14:54 < Thatwasademo> meanwhile trog is upset at the increased literacy requirements
14:55 < sonatagreen> MS can make an audio interface like she did for Lurker
14:55 < Thatwasademo> I mean, for becoming a worshiper
14:55 < sonatagreen> oh
14:56 < Thatwasademo> trog wouldn't post on the MWF anyway because he thinks forums are for squishy wizard nerds
14:56 < sonatagreen> assume worshipers get some kind of divine guidance when dedicating themselves?
14:56 < Thatwasademo> that's probably what he'd have to do, yeah
14:56 < sonatagreen> or have it based on intent
14:57 < sonatagreen> so you can just carve like an X or something, as long as you mean for it to represent yourself
14:57 < Thatwasademo> that's what worshipers were doing before
14:57 < sonatagreen> hrm
14:58 < Thatwasademo> also a lot of trog worshipers are just barely literate enough to write their own names or to "count as reading" a scroll
14:59 < Thatwasademo> it's not an issue that should come up, since again trog will probably never make an appearance
14:59 < Thatwasademo> unless somebody is brave and/or foolish enough to visit the dungeon of zot
15:00 < Thatwasademo> and quest to obtain the orb of zot
15:04 -!- MTC has quit
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15:11 * Teceler grumbles at her computer
15:11 < Teceler> what did I miss?
15:11 < Thatwasademo> effects
15:11 < Teceler> ?
15:12 < Thatwasademo> it turns out Xom banishing the Keeper to the abyss caused some echoes
15:12 < Teceler> oh dear
15:12 < Thatwasademo> which meant we had to work out what exactly happened and how to plausibly make it not recur
15:13 < Teceler> ah
15:13 < sonatagreen> this is how much of our plot so far has happened, I think
15:13 < Thatwasademo> The Keeper can deal with it; Leaf might not be quite so combat-ready
15:13 < kappabeta> it's fun and exciting
15:14 < kappabeta> XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
15:14 < Thatwasademo> at least not ready for that kind of combat
15:14 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
15:14 < Thatwasademo> I had to actually *make a new account* just to deal with xom
15:14 < Teceler> well, /Leaf/ may not be the best example there XD
15:15 < Thatwasademo> well, Andrew is a more obvious example
15:15 < Thatwasademo> but I don't know if Leaf could handle the Abyss quite so well
15:15 < Thatwasademo> it is an incredibly rude place
15:16 < kappabeta> I mean, Leaf would be endangered by the Abyss, but Leaf has personal interdimensional transit capabilities.
15:16 < kappabeta> Twice.
15:16 < Teceler> twice?
15:16 < kappabeta> Leaf could leave.
15:16 < kappabeta> gate and plane shift
15:16 < Teceler> ah
15:16 < Thatwasademo> actually yeah, if he got himself alone for long enough he could definitely cast plane shift
15:17 < kappabeta> alone?
15:17 < Thatwasademo> Crawl has effects some monsters can apply that interrupt spell casting?
15:17 < kappabeta> I feel like I looked it up and plane shift was a bzoop-you're-done sort of spell
15:17 < Thatwasademo> oh
15:17 < kappabeta> like, a few seconds maybe
15:17 < Thatwasademo> i thought most of the Dungeon spells took a round or two
15:18 < Thatwasademo> i was thinking on the order of a few seconds
15:18 < kappabeta> "alone for long enough" made it sound like he would need ten minutes of silence or something
15:19 < Thatwasademo> I mean, if it's super fast, then yeah, there's no way he's getting interrupted
15:19 < Thatwasademo> No, the abyss is just that full of monsters
15:19 < Thatwasademo> No, the abyss is just that reliably full of monsters
15:19 < Thatwasademo> argh no edit
15:19 < Thatwasademo> i keep forgetting irc isn't skype
15:19 < kappabeta> <3
15:20 < Thatwasademo> If something actually takes two or more rounds to cast you're going to get hit before you're done
15:20 < Thatwasademo> well, not rounds, auts
15:20 < Thatwasademo> but same idea
15:26 < kappabeta> "Casting time: 1 standard action"
15:26 < Thatwasademo> ... actually, on further thought I think given the relatively low number of interruptible actions it's a property of those actions not the monsters
15:27 < Thatwasademo> and if something takes 1 action it takes 1 aut and almost nothing will double-turn you anyway
15:27 < Thatwasademo> so at worst you'd get hit once on the way out and not interrupted
15:27 < Thatwasademo> ... though getting hit once in the abyss by something that malmutates...
15:28 < Kel> Could he use arcany, or something else non-turn-based to protect himself while he does that?
15:28 < Thatwasademo> probably
15:29 < Thatwasademo> something that takes 1 action could also be interpreted to be instantaneous but end the turn like walking or attacking or casting most Zot spells do
15:29 < Thatwasademo> which means since it gets him out of there there's no need to worry about something hitting him in the 1 aut it takes to recover from that
15:30 < Thatwasademo> so yeah Leaf should actually have no issues
15:30 < Thatwasademo> assuming constant vigilance
15:31 < Kel> Is there a specific name for MWF!Mark, because I know they share an account, but I think of Leaf as being mostly just Miles
15:32 < kappabeta> Mark hasn't actually posted from Leaf's account yet
15:32 < kappabeta> but he doesn't have a specific name, no
15:34 < sonatagreen> Offshoot :P
15:34 < kappabeta> pff
15:34 < Kel> hee
15:34 < Thatwasademo> pff
15:47 < Kel> I'm now done with the most important thing I forgot to do, and scooping up icons
15:47 < Kel> for DL.
15:48 < Thatwasademo> hey kappa http://alicorn.elcenia.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=210&p=14063#p14063
15:48 < Kel> DW pros, how many empty icon slots is it a good idea to leave open in case of unexpected face needs?
15:48 < kappabeta> <3
15:49 < kappabeta> as a DW pro I tend to leave zero slots open because I have had enough time to get used to what faces a character is going to need
15:49 < kappabeta> One thing that I find helps me a ton is sorting icons by keyword in rough order of how happy/unhappy they are
15:49 < Kel> right. that makes sense
15:50 < Kel> Oh yeah I'd noticed you did that!
15:50 < kappabeta> yeah!
15:50 < kappabeta> like, http://first-loyalty.dreamwidth.org/icons?sortorder=keyword
15:51 < Kel> If the numbers on them are changed after posts are made, does that mess up previous posts?
15:51 < kappabeta> And I break it up in my head into five smiles, five neutralish icons, and five more-upset icons, although the line between neutralish and more-upset can be very blurry
15:51 < kappabeta> DW has a thing it does
15:51 < kappabeta> where if you change an icon keyword you can check a box and it will not mess up previous uses of that icon
15:51 < Kel> okay good that is a good thing
15:51 < Kel> thank you!
15:51 < kappabeta> <3
15:53 < Kel> and in marks case, the line between smiles and more-upset can be very blurry!
15:53 < kappabeta> yes XD
16:06 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: You still here?
16:08 < linkhyrule5> yeah
16:08 < linkhyrule5> ME is currently wrassling the Gauntlet, bu we can set it earlier than the confrontation
16:08 < Teceler> I finished getting the account set up
16:08 < Teceler> ah
16:08 < Teceler> shouldn't you sleep?
16:09 < linkhyrule5> I have also desided for the sake of silly amounts of scope that ME can throw around alternate-universe galaxies, but those aren't as connected to the forum and so there's an even greater cost associated with using them.
16:09 < linkhyrule5> Which happens to all even out to continue the trend of "ME is silly in his universe and mostly scries outside"
16:09 < Teceler> I am confused, but okay
16:09 < Kel> An entire galaxy contains /a lot/ of fire, though
16:10 < Teceler> it sounds like it's not very efficent though
16:11 < linkhyrule5> Mm, I might tone it down a bit
16:11 < linkhyrule5> But basically, he is sacrificing stars at a pretty rapid clip
16:11 < linkhyrule5> But the Truth penalty is /squared/, so
16:12 < linkhyrule5> Prism is kind of adorable
16:13 < Kel> Awww! Yes she is!
16:16 -!- Kel has quit
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16:17 < Teceler> that is adorable
16:19 < Teceler> ...yes, I can see that ME is having trouble there, ha
16:23 < Teceler> linkhyrule5, did you get a post up earlier, or should I be waiting for that?
16:23 < linkhyrule5> oh derp
16:23 < linkhyrule5> yeah things kind of came up
16:23 < Thatwasademo> a note on the choko thing: xom *may* have attempted to give a choko to every forum member at once
16:23 < linkhyrule5> I'll get that done in a minute
16:23 < linkhyrule5> looool
16:23 < Teceler> ...ha
16:23 < kappabeta> pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
16:24 < kappabeta> but it doesn't thing because of stuff, right?
16:24 < Thatwasademo> i realize that this wasn't entirely clear
16:24 < Thatwasademo> no, this was before the stuff
16:24 < Teceler> yeah, that fine, just if you did you didn't point me at it
16:24 < Teceler> *that's
16:24 < linkhyrule5> A choko has been spread across the universe, then, unless xom can bypass Truthy problems
16:25 < Teceler> oh, Firewall is having a /good/ day
16:26 < Thatwasademo> I suspect given how discrete DCSS magic is that either a choko has appeared at ME's feet successfully or a conspicuous lack of said event entirely has occurred
16:26 < Thatwasademo> well, I say magic, but I really mean "entire world physics"
16:26 < kappabeta> ...hmm
16:26 < Thatwasademo> either the item was created or no item was created
16:26 < Teceler> oh, it wasn't just the one at everyone?
16:26 < Thatwasademo> it was one to each forum member
16:26 < Teceler> ah
16:27 < kappabeta> was this from the trade thread?
16:27 < kappabeta> yeah it didn't look like it went everywhere
16:27 < Thatwasademo> yeah
16:27 < kappabeta> and I'm not sure how to actually have it go everywhere
16:27 < kappabeta> because everywhere is a lot of players
16:27 -!- Aestrix has joined #backstage
16:27 < kappabeta> some of whom may not want a choko
16:27 < Thatwasademo> well of course
16:27 < Aestrix> I remembered this existed too
16:27 < kappabeta> hi aestrix
16:27 < kappabeta> <3
16:27 < kappabeta> i love you aestrix
16:27 < Teceler> hello
16:27 < Thatwasademo> gasp an aestrix
16:27 < Aestrix> <3
16:27 < Aestrix> Hi!
16:28 < Thatwasademo> i bet you are wondering why kappa just said "some of whom may not want a choko"
16:28 < Thatwasademo> or if you were not then you are now
16:28 < Thatwasademo> unless you know!
16:28 -!- Endovior has joined #backstage
16:28 < Endovior> o/
16:28 < Aestrix> I assume something is planned with xom involved and chokos would be distributed to all
16:28 < Teceler> hello
16:28 < Aestrix> Hi!
16:28 < Thatwasademo> something already happened but wasn't sufficiently clear
16:29 < Teceler> well, having it turn up magically in the secret hidden Firewall base is a sufficiently entertaining idea in an 'on fire' sense that I am tempted to go with it
16:29 < Thatwasademo> there is an attempted god gift given to each forum member; whether this succeeds depends on them
16:29 < Teceler> or possibly two, how would it interact with there being too of them?
16:29 < Teceler> *two
16:30 < Kel> Maybe say something about it under Special Accommodations or something so non-chatters know what happened?
16:30 < Thatwasademo> if there are two people near each other roll 1d3-1 to determine the number of chokos
16:30 < Thatwasademo> ah that would work
16:30 < sonatagreen> is that 0,1,2 or 1,1,2?
16:31 < Thatwasademo> 0,1,2
16:31 < Endovior> To clarify: there have been Choko deliveries to everyone who has ever posted on the forum?
16:31 < Thatwasademo> To most people
16:31 < Thatwasademo> random fate or universal mechanics may prevent it
16:31 < Teceler> depending on player opinon, yeah
16:32 < sonatagreen> but attempted Choko deliveries to all
16:32 < Thatwasademo> he wanted to give you all a gift~
16:32 < kappabeta> hahaha
16:32 < Teceler> 3-1 = 2. There are now two random chokos sitting by Tyche's server bank (luckily not telefraging anything), and Firewall is freaking out
16:33 < Thatwasademo> two random chokos tagged as being god gifts
16:33 < Thatwasademo> since Crawl does that
16:33 < Teceler> oh, that's even worse XD
16:33 < Endovior> The World of Darkness is generally protected against that thing, but it's a small effect, and is amusing, so it might work anyways.
16:33 -!- magicphd has joined #backstage
16:34 < Aestrix> Welp
16:34 < Aestrix> The choko made Prism realize the forum is a real thing
16:34 < Aestrix> Finally.
16:34 < Endovior> Argus definitely gets one, atop the server rack, purely to freak out the 'crats.
16:34 < Teceler> ...XDXDXD
16:34 < Thatwasademo> oh my
16:34 < Aestrix> She thought it was very dutiful roleplay before!
16:34 < Thatwasademo> this mess
16:35 < Thatwasademo> is beautiful!
16:35 < Teceler> such fire
16:35 < Teceler> oh, everyone who just came in:
16:35 < kappabeta> choko success rates among my characters: Keeper - succeeded but unmentioned, and then she destroyed it when she got home. Esthfora - undefined, will figure it out if it ever comes up. Leaf - succeeded. Nifl - succeeded. Swish - succeeded.
16:35 < Teceler> [gdocs link redacted]
16:35 < kappabeta> Leaf and Nifl are both adopting a "not touching this with a ten-foot pole" attitude towards Xom.
16:35 < Teceler> that is probably a good policy
16:36 < Thatwasademo> that is probably a good policy in canon too
16:36 < Aestrix> Rae is confused by his choko. He went and threw it in the ocean.
16:36 < Thatwasademo> unless you are a funhaver
16:36 < kappabeta> Leaf chucked his choko in a waste disposal unit and Nifl is having hers analyzed by biochem people.
16:36 < Teceler> how did Nifl explain this to the biochem people?
16:36 < Thatwasademo> they will find them to be completely ordinary and quite edible
16:36 < Aestrix> Inkspot made a squaking sound and set hers on fire.
16:38 < Aestrix> Also oh wow my settings are on that that pleases me
16:38 < kappabeta> Nifl did not explain it to the biochem people.
16:38 < kappabeta> Nifl does not need to explain things.
16:38 < linkhyrule5> loooool
16:38 < Thatwasademo> btw a choko is this thing that exists in real life: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chayote
16:38 < kappabeta> When your empress tells you to analyze a vegetable, you shut up and do it.
16:38 < Thatwasademo> just in case that wasn't clear
16:38 < kappabeta> XD
16:39 < Teceler> I went through all the forum users who'd actually posted and put them and their worlds on. And then called upon the chat to help fill it out
16:39 < linkhyrule5> also I exist
16:39 < linkhyrule5> hello Endovior
16:39 < Endovior> Hey
16:39 < Teceler> re: Nifl, that is a strategy XD
16:39 < Teceler> (well, minus the user accounts, for obvious reasons)
16:40 < magicphd> Mind if I put in some Fractal info into the shhet?
16:40 < Teceler> go for it, that's what it's for
16:41 < linkhyrule5> Endovior: So what's Grigori's response to ME directly challenging the Gauntlet and... probably reaching a detente, because at this point he's kind of annoyed enough to either a) give up or b) bring in big guns, aka the rest of the world saving crew
16:41 < kappabeta> "Whoops. Too late to edit my post, I guess." - I mean, if nobody's responded to it...?
16:41 < linkhyrule5> which basically means either I bring in some more Entelechy characters or just leave it
16:42 < Endovior> Grigori? He's not necessarily opposed.
16:42 < linkhyrule5> He seemed a little "what on earth did you do?!" in the thread there
16:42 < Endovior> Just kind of surprised, mostly.
16:42 < linkhyrule5> I was kind of looking forward ot a mildly squeaky wtf
16:42 < linkhyrule5> :P
16:42 < magicphd> people had, so I could just roll with it.
16:43 < Kel> Is it safe to assume that if a plant is instantiated within Garden without other specification, it is converted into patterns, as that is what instantiating plants do?
16:43 < linkhyrule5> oh hey magicphd
16:43 < kappabeta> instantiated how?
16:43 < Thatwasademo> ps: "Magical" means specifically "has a high enchantment level or is branded" in Zot
16:44 < Thatwasademo> to explain Elyvilon's response
16:44 * Teceler goes to add legends to portability and communicablity
16:44 < magicphd> Hi
16:44 < Aestrix> I feel like Prism's response is self explanatory.
16:44 < Aestrix> Poor dear is having herself a panic now
16:44 < Thatwasademo> I feel like it is too.
16:44 < Thatwasademo> aww
16:45 < Teceler> aw, poor Prism
16:46 < Aestrix> Yeah
16:47 < magicphd> hehe, 'tagged as god gift' counts as a minor magical effect that gets auto-dispelled.
16:47 < Thatwasademo> would the collective reaction have been better or worse if it was a magic hat or something
16:48 < Thatwasademo> That's weird, I would have thought it would instead be converted to a physical tag or something
16:48 < Thatwasademo> like the tag is in the same place inscriptions are
16:48 < Thatwasademo> but I think I like that better
16:48 < Thatwasademo> besides, who's to say that "inscriptions" aren't magical anyway
16:48 < Aestrix> I mean, Inkspot's reaction would be about the same if it were a magic hat
16:49 < Aestrix> "WHAT. NO. BE SET ON FIRE."
16:49 < Endovior> Regarding gourds: Grigori fails to receive one; Argus gets one and triggers a largish panic attack; Orz gets one and fails to notice; Cassandra gets one and is intrigued.
16:49 < Thatwasademo> orz
16:49 < kappabeta> <3 orz
16:49 < Aestrix> Rae would probably still throw it in the ocean, Prism would still likely throw it out of the window. Though she'd likely put it on first.
16:49 < kappabeta> Esthfora wants to hug Orz.
16:50 < Aestrix> Hee
16:50 < kappabeta> Orz is adorzable.
16:50 < linkhyrule5> I am mildly tempted to have the gourd fall in front of the Gauntlet's counterscry attempt, just beccause it seems hilarious
16:50 < Endovior> Viridescence would get one, but the agent who interacted with the forum previously has already been executed, and the master of that particular conspiracy is not currently tracking the forum.
16:50 < linkhyrule5> "The entity attempting t o breach the Gauntlet is.... an inanimate vegetable!"
16:50 < Thatwasademo> <Aestrix> Though she'd likely put it on first.
16:50 < Thatwasademo> man that could end poorly
16:50 < Teceler> Firewall would probably be even more rattled by an obviously magical hat
16:50 < Aestrix> Yep
16:50 < Aestrix> Prism is not the brightest crayon in the box.
16:50 < Aestrix> But she is enthusiastic
16:51 < linkhyrule5> Oh, Endovior, can I have gotten "the Gauntlet" out of this thing? The name, taht is?
16:51 < Endovior> Sure
16:51 < linkhyrule5> Also, OOC, is this also the Dimensional Anomaly and the Avatar Storm, or is that something else?
16:51 < Thatwasademo> what if it is A CURSED -1 HAT AND SHE CAN NEVER WEAR ANOTHER HAT AGAIN
16:51 < linkhyrule5> I am now going to freak out Gregori soem more :P
16:51 < Endovior> Those factors are related to the Gauntlet.
16:52 < Aestrix> Prism would be very sad if she could never wear another hat again
16:52 < Aestrix> Especially if the one she was wearing was ugly.
16:52 < Endovior> But the Gauntlet itself existed previous to them.
16:52 < Thatwasademo> ugly and providing of 0 AC
16:52 < Aestrix> THE HORROR
16:52 < linkhyrule5> mmkay
16:52 < Thatwasademo> on the bright side there are apparently no negative egos in Crawl
16:53 < Thatwasademo> it's not like nethack where a cursed armor item could be deadly
16:53 < Aestrix> Heh
16:53 < linkhyrule5> wait, is itn ot stuck on your head?
16:53 < linkhyrule5> That was the big thing that armor items did in Nethack, I though
16:53 < linkhyrule5> that they were stuck and were awful
16:53 < Thatwasademo> it would be stuck on your head and that would be the only negative effect
16:53 < Endovior> Eh, some egos can be pretty terrible, but only on weapons (distortion comes to mind)
16:53 < linkhyrule5> I mean cursed necklaces can choke you, but
16:54 < Thatwasademo> the only negative *special* effects on equipment are on jewelery, not weapons or armor, is what i'm saying
16:54 < Thatwasademo> oh right distortion weapons
16:54 < Thatwasademo> nevermind I forgot about those
16:54 < Endovior> Vampirism is arguable, but not nearly as bad
16:55 < Thatwasademo> vampiric weapons only have a hunger penalty to wield and can't even make you starve to death since you have to be Full or better to do so in the first place
16:56 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - okay, other distraction is done
16:56 < linkhyrule5> writing first post
16:56 < Thatwasademo> oh boy
16:59 < linkhyrule5> magicphd - Once I finish my magic post I'll finally get back to your owlrd
17:00 < magicphd> No problem-I've been distracted by paper writing IRL. There's plenty for my character to do in the meantime.
17:02 < linkhyrule5> haha, fair enough
17:03 < linkhyrule5> By the way, Endovior - by "rather familiar", do you mean "remarkably ENtelechy-like"?
17:03 < Endovior> Yes, that
17:03 < linkhyrule5> right
17:03 < linkhyrule5> that's going to throw him for a bit of a loop
17:04 < linkhyrule5> ... Okay, so the thing I won't do because it would be unfun:
17:04 < Endovior> ?
17:04 < linkhyrule5> "Hey, primordial dragons! There's a great big defense there just being there! It doesn't lilke it when you poke it!"
17:04 < linkhyrule5> A good chunk of them are going to ignore the shouty human
17:04 < linkhyrule5> But it only takes a few.
17:05 < Endovior> Primordial Dragons?
17:05 < linkhyrule5> See Creation myth.
17:06 < linkhyrule5> The ones who were areound since the Big Bang.
17:06 < linkhyrule5> There are a few left remaining
17:06 < linkhyrule5> They're on the short list of "people ME Does Not Mess With Ever"
17:06 < linkhyrule5> This would count, which is another reason I won't do it
17:06 < linkhyrule5> But it's a funny idea
17:07 < Endovior> Ah, Orz-like beings.
17:07 < Endovior> Noted.
17:07 < linkhyrule5> Mm.
17:07 < Endovior> That would probably end badly.
17:07 < linkhyrule5> Not quite.
17:07 < linkhyrule5> Orz like beings, if they were as magically powerful as ME and a million times older.
17:07 < linkhyrule5> They're waaaay off the "ever appearing in this fic" scale
17:08 < linkhyrule5> have probably left the local Truth, the local Truth-cluster, and are somewhere off playing calvinball with the Excrucians.
17:08 < Teceler> XD
17:09 < linkhyrule5> ME is primarily limited because he doesn't have infinite access to matter to sacrifice.
17:09 < linkhyrule5> The /reason/ he doesn't have infinite access to matter to sacrifice is that /most of it got claimed by thedragons/
17:09 < Teceler> ...I thought some it was being used!
17:09 < Teceler> well then
17:10 < Endovior> Also, not incidentally, further poking *around* the Gauntlet will let you find worlds *near* the Gauntlet, but on the not-protected side.
17:10 < Endovior> Threat Null is there.
17:11 < linkhyrule5> Well, large bits of it are being used, yes
17:11 < linkhyrule5> Oooh, Threat Null
17:11 < linkhyrule5> That would be fun
17:11 < linkhyrule5> I bet I could make a deal with the not-Syndicate
17:11 < linkhyrule5> (everyone can makea deal with the not-Syndicate)
17:11 < Endovior> You probably could, yes
17:11 < linkhyrule5> (the question is, how much are you getting fleeced)
17:12 < linkhyrule5> ME is probably going to get some other (still reasonably iimmortal) mage to do the poking, just 'cause he'd rather not attract its attention more than he has to
17:12 < Endovior> That's reasonable.
17:12 < linkhyrule5> My general default is "he's dealt with it before", regardless of what "it" is, but in this case the way he dealt with it was probably "lure it off to something he doesn't care about, close the door and leave"
17:13 < linkhyrule5> AKA "not actually dealiing with it"
17:13 < linkhyrule5> .... You know, ME might accidentally cause a Technocracy civil war
17:13 < linkhyrule5> >.>
17:14 < Teceler> ...ME...
17:14 < linkhyrule5> He's careful with infosec by default, but "the fact that there's anotehr Technocracy running around" might seem innocuous/important for them to know
17:14 < linkhyrule5> and then Threat Null and Control overrides everywhere
17:14 < linkhyrule5> (Btw, did you ever read Panopticon Quest?)
17:14 < Endovior> I am in the process of reading it
17:14 < Endovior> It is long
17:15 < Endovior> Thanks for pointing it out to me!
17:15 < linkhyrule5> No problem!
17:15 < linkhyrule5> It's amazing :P
17:15 < Endovior> It is
17:15 < linkhyrule5> .... "+1 Choko"
17:15 < linkhyrule5> *snerks*
17:17 < Thatwasademo> how would you even enchant food
17:17 < magicphd> magically more filling!
17:18 < Thatwasademo> I suppose I could make Ely post in the "talk about magic" thread
17:18 < Thatwasademo> but that might cause issues with similarity to QUALITY DISCOUNT SPELLBOOKS if she mentions spellbooks
17:18 < Thatwasademo> and I don't think I'm ready for that yet
17:19 < magicphd> Elyvilon isn't calling potions magic?
17:20 < Thatwasademo> OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD
17:20 < Teceler> ...what happened?
17:20 < Endovior> ?
17:21 < Thatwasademo> how do i forget potions exist
17:21 < magicphd> Ely said: "Magical items from the Dungeon of Zot are either evocable, readable, or wearable", but stone soup has things like healing potions.
17:21 < kappabeta> i guess potions might not be "items"?
17:21 < Teceler> or sneaky-stealth-edit
17:21 < Thatwasademo> they are definitely items
17:21 < kappabeta> sneaky stealth edit it is
17:22 < Endovior> ^
17:22 < magicphd> which means I can bug you about the difference between enchanting food and making potions :P
17:23 < Thatwasademo> do that in an edit
17:26 < Thatwasademo> but thanks yeah
17:27 < magicphd> Hmm, the natural question come as a response to the last post, so I think I'll respond normally: the conversations flows fine as is, I think.
17:27 < Thatwasademo> alright
17:28 < magicphd> .. how obnoxious would it be to allude to the potion of porridge?
17:29 < Endovior> lol
17:29 < Thatwasademo> only slightly
17:29 < Thatwasademo> she's already mentioned that potions lose their properties if they leave their flasks without being quaffed
17:30 < Thatwasademo> she'd just reply that the potion of porridge is a magical potion with the effect of increasing satiation, and still not food
17:39 < Thatwasademo> well now i'm double-checking my memory
17:39 < Thatwasademo> oh ho the potion of porridge does not even exist!
17:40 < linkhyrule5> blargh
17:40 < linkhyrule5> More silly things are happening, Teceler
17:40 < linkhyrule5> it may be a bit
17:40 < Teceler> it happens
17:51 < magicphd> http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Potion_of_porridge
17:51 < magicphd> oh, removed from game in previous version.
17:52 < magicphd> Darn my outdated version.
17:52 < Thatwasademo> I know, right?
17:57 < Thatwasademo> elyvilon wants to help so much but she's stuck in a council which is mostly comprised of jerks
17:57 < linkhyrule5> oh geez
17:57 < linkhyrule5> uh
17:57 < linkhyrule5> so this is awkward
17:57 < linkhyrule5> Teceler, do you remember what I named ME?
17:57 < linkhyrule5> >.<
17:58 < Teceler> should be in the log, just a moment
17:58 < linkhyrule5> mine doesn't go back far enough >.<
17:58 < Teceler> Aisilian Rok'suchi
17:58 < linkhyrule5> thanks
17:58 < Teceler> there's probably a setting for that
18:15 < linkhyrule5> https://meletiti-entelecheiai.dreamwidth.org/467.html
18:15 < linkhyrule5> Here you go
18:15 < linkhyrule5> probably going to bed now, but that's the thread
18:15 < Teceler> sleep well
18:15 < linkhyrule5> Current plan is to nap for an hour or two, eat dinner, than go back to bed
18:15 < linkhyrule5> so I might be back again, I might now
18:15 < linkhyrule5> *not
18:16 < linkhyrule5> we'll see
18:16 < linkhyrule5> thanks
18:16 < linkhyrule5> good "night"
18:16 < Teceler> good night
18:16 < Aestrix> Night
18:16 < Teceler> "... well. Now that that's over with, I guess I can do something much safer. Experimenting and studying a multivector conceptual virus from another Truth!"
18:16 < Teceler> XD
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18:56 < Aestrix> Hello!
18:56 < Hadassah> Hiyas
18:57 < magicphd> hello
18:57 < Teceler> hello
18:57 < Aestrix> Hadassah's reaction to the complimentary vegetable was cute
18:58 < Thatwasademo> heh
18:58 < Hadassah> Ha. For once, it was something that she really couldn't get into trouble for.
18:58 < Aestrix> Ha
18:58 < Aestrix> Poor Hadassah <3
18:59 < Aestrix> Getting into trouble for so much
18:59 < Kel> Aww
18:59 < Hadassah> She's back in good graces for now, so alls well!
18:59 < Teceler> oh, Hadassah
18:59 < Aestrix> :D!
18:59 < Teceler> that's good
18:59 < Endovior> lol
19:00 < Teceler> oh, we have a spreadsheet: [gdocs link redacted]
19:01 < Endovior> Noted
19:01 < Aestrix> I actually wasn't aware of this spreadsheet
19:01 < Aestrix> Multiple spreadsheets! Yeeees, good, good.
19:01 < Teceler> ...I remember pasting the link after you two came in?
19:01 < Teceler> It must have gotten buried
19:01 < Aestrix> I might have missed it
19:02 < Aestrix> Oh wait no
19:02 < Aestrix> It expanded when I wasn't paying attention
19:02 < Teceler> that is also possible
19:04 < Teceler> it has been doing a lot of expanding
19:04 < Aestrix> I am amused that someone put the source of my worlds as Aestrix's brain. It's accurate, but funny xD
19:04 < sonatagreen> please note that my script will *automatically* redact all gdocs links, so ping me if you paste one that you want to actually show up in the logs. Alternatively, just post the link on the forum or something.
19:06 < Teceler> noted. That is a useful thing
19:07 < Teceler> (I wouldn't mind if the logs weren't going somewhere publically viewable, but I don't particularly want to have to lock this down and manually add everyone)
19:07 < Kel> Maybe people could just PM each other the links?
19:08 -!- sonatagreen has quit
19:08 < Hadassah> Within reason, of course
19:09 < Teceler> I don't mind if it's passed around within reason on the forum, yeah
19:10 < Teceler> (in pms, I mean)
19:10 < Kel> Oh, I was thinking PMs on the chat, but yeah that would work too
19:11 < Teceler> oh, if she wants to not have to redact them that would also work, I guess
19:11 < Teceler> I didn't think of that
19:11 < kappabeta> having the links exist in the channel but be redacted from the logs seems maximally convenient
19:13 < Kel> If it's happening automatically, I agree. I was worried that lambda would have to edit them all out manually so we should try not to, but it looks like that is not happening
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19:25 < Aestrix> Hello!
19:26 < Kel> hi!
19:26 < Teceler> hello
19:27 -!- Thatwasademo is now known as Thatwasasleep
19:28 < Kel> heee
19:28 < Aestrix> Heeee
19:28 < Teceler> hee
19:28 < Aestrix> That is very cute
19:28 < Hadassah> Hiyas, and sleep well
19:28 < Kel> That is! (How do you change your name on these? I'm using the Mibbit client)
19:28 < magicphd> wow, Hassadah, that was nice. But now magicphd is guilt tripping due to lack of any explanation of how the thing works.
19:28 < Teceler> '/nick'
19:29 < Kel> okay thanks!
19:29 -!- Kel is now known as Keltesting
19:29 -!- Keltesting is now known as Kel
19:30 < Kel> I will do that next time I am unavailable rather than just waiting to idle out!
19:30 < Hadassah> Hahaha, They figured it out. They do have divine seers and such to help them figure out the broad strokes, and Hadassah has a lot of time and is more scientifically inclined than magically, anyway
19:31 < magicphd> magicphd worries about being the next Oppenheimer, so was more paranoid than usual when teaching. But he likes to teach, and feels guilty when withholding technical knowledge.
19:35 < Hadassah> Hah, no that's perfectly fair. They probably have more to worry about someone importing the technology than developing it themselves, given the dangers. Their local cold wars went into developing biological weapons and direct EMP weapons, alas.
19:36 < Hadassah> Hadassah will probably ask later on, but the periodic table is something that is more an interesting by-product of physics rather than an unexplored resource.
19:38 < Aestrix> Ugh. I hate when I do a thing where I question a word's definition, go look it up, and then learn that not only did I have the definition completely correct but I used it in the proper context.
19:38 < Aestrix> Hate in an affectionate hate of 'how does my head work'
19:41 < magicphd> Go ahead and ask. It's not hard to get magicphd talking about science.
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19:56 < Aestrix> Hello!
19:56 < Aestrix> Possibly slightly belated hello
19:56 < Kel> Hello?
19:56 < Aestrix> To sonatagreen xD
19:57 < sonatagreen> hi
19:57 < Kel> oh okay!
19:57 < Kel> Hi!
19:57 < sonatagreen> I helloabled just now, you are nonbelated
19:57 < Aestrix> Hooray!
19:57 < kappabeta> helloabled!
19:59 < Hadassah> Aestrix, I have that feeling all the time.
19:59 < Hadassah> Also, I need to go to bed. Night all! Sleep well!
19:59 < Aestrix> Good night!
19:59 < Kel> Good night!
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20:41 < Kel> kappabeta, I have one Steve's worth of faces, with enough empty slots to add three more if necessary.
20:41 < kappabeta> ooh ooh
20:41 < kappabeta> can we the thing
20:41 < Kel> Yeah! Unless you'd strongly rather I make a Janice account and add her?
20:42 < Kel> Also do they look okay? http://dotted-lines.dreamwidth.org/icons?sortorder=keyword
20:42 < kappabeta> approve!
20:42 < Kel> Yay!
20:42 < Aestrix> I also approve!
20:42 < Aestrix> He looks very tired, poor dear
20:42 < Kel> He is
20:43 < kappabeta> So let's the thing :D
20:43 < Kel> Okay! Should I PM you gchat info?
20:44 < kappabeta> yeah sure
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20:52 < kappabeta> added on gchat, finally. it turns out that even when i KNOW i'm about to get a pm in IRC and i am actively trying to look for it, I still don't notice it for ages
20:54 < Kel> I have not actually done a gchat before sorry where should I look for it?
20:54 < kappabeta> um hmm
20:54 < kappabeta> what's your gmail inbox look like
20:55 < Kel> I see it thanks!
21:03 -!- Teceler is now known as Teceler|Away
21:15 < Eva> *yawn*
21:15 * Eva stretches.
21:16 < Eva> Anyone alive?
21:16 < Aestrix> *wave*
21:16 < Aestrix> I'm alive!
21:17 < Kel> I am alive but occupied
21:17 < kappabeta> i live!
21:17 < sonatagreen> i exist
21:17 < sonatagreen> (but playing dwarf fortress)
21:20 < Eva> > carp
21:20 < Eva> Hi alive people!
21:25 < Aestrix> Hi other assumingly alive person!
21:26 < magicphd> I exist at the moment.
21:27 < Eva> Hey magicphd
21:28 < Eva> hey aestrix
21:28 < Eva> So... any MWF plots in the offing?
21:29 < Aestrix> I mean, it's actually looking like I can pull off Inkspot's kidnapping now
21:29 < kappabeta> :D
21:29 < Aestrix> Which makes me happy
21:29 < Aestrix> Unfortunately I will have to sacrifice her very dramatic deadly last stand.
21:29 < Aestrix> Which makes me sad.
21:29 < Aestrix> But ~you do what you can~
21:30 < Aestrix> Also Rae's making friends with the Naismiths. I fully expect them to just end up with all of his blessings and possibly acolytehood.
21:30 < kappabeta> <3
21:32 < Aestrix> And I maybe found a Rae facecast, which is exciting
21:32 < Adelene> Lurker's on track to visit Leaf starting tomorrow or so, which means she'll be around more.
21:33 < Aestrix> Ooo :D
21:33 < Adelene> Yes ^^
21:33 < kappabeta> Me and Kel just started the thread where Dotted Lines gets offered asylum on Barrayar ^^
21:33 < Aestrix> :D
21:33 < Adelene> linky?
21:33 < kappabeta> http://dotted-lines.dreamwidth.org/339.html
21:34 < Aestrix> You know I should probably think of a clever screenname for Rae, but on the other hand, Raezenoth is a screenname that is actually open
21:34 < kappabeta> hee
21:35 < Aestrix> Hmmm should I pick something thematically appropriate or nooooot...
21:42 -!- Teceler|Away is now known as Teceler
21:43 * Teceler returns
21:43 < kappabeta> <3
21:44 < Aestrix> Welcome back!
21:44 < Teceler> thanks
22:04 < kappabeta> tra la la it's past my bedtime
22:04 < kappabeta> goodnight stagehands
22:05 < Aestrix> Good night!
22:05 -!- kappabeta has quit
22:06 < Kel> Night!
22:21 < Kel> And now I should probably go to sleep too.
22:22 -!- Kel is now known as Kelsleeping
22:23 < Aestrix> As am I, actually
22:23 < Aestrix> Good night <3
22:24 < Kelsleeping> Night!
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00:52 < sonatagreen> Is QDS still trap-the-soul-ed?
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05:11 < Thatwasademo> boo
05:12 < Adelene> hiss.
05:12 < Adelene> ^^
05:16 < Thatwasademo> 3 spooky 5 me
05:16 < Adelene> *giggle*
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Post by Daniel H on May 27, 2015 15:36:21 GMT
Could you please put these in spoiler boxes? It's hard to scroll through and making them collapsible-by-day would help.
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 27, 2015 18:09:51 GMT
Done.
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 28, 2015 17:23:03 GMT
I dropped out for a bit, but thanks to Teceler (Thorn), the below log is reconstructed and therefore complete. Spoilered because long. 07:50 -!- kappabeta has joined #backstage
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09:06 < Kel> Good morning!
09:08 < Adelene> hi!
09:08 < Kel> Hi!
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09:24 < Adelene> Hi sonatagreen! I have a question about Dungeon magic.
09:24 < sonatagreen> Hi Adelene! I may have an answer.
09:25 < Adelene> Lurker has Carp!see magic, and is habitually leaving it on. Leaf is going to (presumably) send her a Gate to visit him (could also be the other spell that's similar, not sure what kappa's planning). Will Leaf be able to see that early at all?
09:26 < Adelene> Er
09:26 < Adelene> Will Lurker. With the see magic.
09:26 < Adelene> I keep getting those names mixed up, it is kind of awful. :P
09:28 < sonatagreen> I don't think so. The Gate pretty much appears instantly.
09:28 < Adelene> *nod* Ok.
09:29 < Adelene> It's not going to be relevant to basically anything this time, but it will be described one way or the other probably, so I didn't want to risk a polt hole.
09:29 < sonatagreen> She should be able to See Magic the Gate once it does appear.
09:29 < Adelene> *nod*
09:39 < Thatwasademo> how does the forum interact with data compression and/or large files
09:41 < sonatagreen> Compression yes, large-ish files maybe, very large files no.
09:42 < Thatwasademo> Does it translate compression formats if necessary?
09:44 < sonatagreen> If it understands them, which is usually.
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11:11 < Kel> I am actually very curious about why Andrew was so insistent that BE not tinker with the Choko
11:31 < Adelene> Me too, I haven't worked out what's happened to Lurker's choko but it may well have been left to go to seed in Carp.
11:37 < Kel> Also, unless someone says otherwise, I am going to rule that the Choko's genes were converted to patterns, because it was (I think?) created out of nothing in Garden.
11:39 < Thatwasademo> That would be appropriate, considering that I'm not even entirely sure genes exist in Zot
11:40 < Thatwasademo> every choko in Zot is the platonic ideal of a choko
11:40 < Kel> Okay great!
11:40 < Kel> I still don't actually know why Andrew is concerned
11:40 < Thatwasademo> (the same goes for blueberries, bread, pizza, and so on)
11:40 < Kel> :)
11:41 < Kel> Do blueberries and chokos still grow on plants?
11:41 < Thatwasademo> Theoretically, yes. It has never been observed in canon.
11:41 < Kel> Okay, so there will actually be seeds that could be messed with
11:41 < Kel> I assume?
11:42 < Thatwasademo> It's probably reasonable to say that genes and so on do actually exist in Zot it's just really hard for someone exploring there to find out given how identical identical items are there
11:42 < Thatwasademo> and yeah, there should be seeds
11:43 < Thatwasademo> given that Fedhas gave instructions on growing them from seeds
11:44 < Kel> Okay good.
11:45 < Thatwasademo> Oh, I just remembered mutations are a mechanic. Yeah, genes definitely exist. The chokos will end up being all identical to each other before the effects of the world they arrive in are applied though.
11:46 < Teceler> it occurs to me that those chokos could probably completely wreck some ecosystems
11:46 < Thatwasademo> After that, their offspring will differ from each other normally
11:46 < Thatwasademo> yeah I guess invasive species can do that
11:47 < Teceler> I thought I would share the thought :P
11:47 < Kel> I think Chokos would actually probably not do too well in Garden, from a glance at their usual environments
11:48 < Thatwasademo> Eh, possibly.
11:48 < Thatwasademo> The surface world in Zot is incredibly vague.
11:50 < Kel> Oh, I was going based off of chayote
11:50 < Kel> which look like they need it to be a lot hotter
11:50 < Thatwasademo> yeah
11:50 < Thatwasademo> I agree
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11:57 < Endovior> o/
11:58 < Thatwasademo> oh hey it's good to know inventory synchronizes between in the grid and out of the grid
12:13 < Kel> Colony of ants? BE doesn't know enough about insects to ask, but I am curious. Is it a setting thing?
12:25 < Endovior> It's a 'Mad Scientists are weird' thing
12:25 < Endovior> The Progenitors tend to do strange things to themselves
12:25 < Teceler> XD
12:25 < Kel> Ah.
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12:26 < Endovior> o/
12:26 < kappabeta> hello small waving head
12:26 < Kel> So just ex-human ant colonies?
12:26 < Kel> and stuff?
12:27 < Endovior> There's a lot of 'and stuff'.
12:27 < Teceler> so, I think Thorn is going to be intermittently online again today
12:27 < Endovior> Noted.
12:27 < Teceler> and she will be sending Cassandra a future version of Civilization
12:27 < Teceler> beware :P
12:28 < Endovior> Heh
12:28 < Endovior> Still waiting on the next question
12:28 < kappabeta> what
12:28 < Teceler> yeah, I'm trying to work out what she'd ask
12:28 < Teceler> specifically, I mean, obviously it's something about the exsurgent virus
12:29 < Teceler> kappa, Thorn is trading future tech for answers to questions via Truth Engine
12:29 < Endovior> Indeed
12:29 < kappabeta> aha
12:29 < Teceler> except then Cassandra
12:30 -!- Kel is now known as Kelaway
12:31 < Teceler> she is not sure what to do about Cassandra, but when Thorn asked if there was anything she wanted she said simulations
12:31 < Teceler> so
12:31 < Endovior> That's a reasonable response
12:33 < Teceler> "I haven't personally verified the rotational stability of every planet in the galaxy, but..." XD
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12:35 < kappabeta> :D
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13:29 < Endovior> Do humans currently exist here?
13:29 < Teceler> where? (:P)
13:29 < Endovior> Just checking for activity
13:29 < Teceler> ah
13:30 < Endovior> I note that Captain Viridian has detected the presence of Nexus near his current location, which is interesting
13:31 < kappabeta> :D
13:31 < Endovior> I sense a story coming on :D
13:31 < sonatagreen> that's the idea, presumably
13:37 < Thatwasademo> we had a discussion about how exactly checkpoints worked, if i recall
13:37 < Teceler> a long involved discussion
13:37 < Teceler> :P
13:37 < kappabeta> :D
13:37 < Teceler> they are now very thoroughly hashed out
13:39 < Teceler> though I don't think I ever asked if someone can be forcibly /de/registered, which would be another way to kill someone permanently
13:40 < Thatwasademo> it would presumably be possible to do so, since checkpoints are not magic and as such do not treat intent as a fundamental entity
13:40 < Teceler> that makes sense
14:00 < linkhyrule5> Teceelr: I see you were midly amused by ME's nonchalance w.r.t. the exsurgent virus :P
14:01 < linkhyrule5> (why yes I have been asleep all this time >.< )
14:01 < Teceler> I was
14:01 < Teceler> (good, sleep is useful)
14:01 < linkhyrule5> ha
14:01 < linkhyrule5> true
14:01 < Teceler> but I did get up a reply for you after spending ages getting a biohazard icon I liked
14:01 < linkhyrule5> Life is still in mass explosions mode, so posting rate will be slow
14:01 < linkhyrule5> haha
14:01 < linkhyrule5> yeah, I saw
14:01 < Teceler> okay, that's fine, good luck with the explosions
14:01 < linkhyrule5> thanks
14:01 < linkhyrule5> I think I'll need it >.>
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14:26 < linkhyrule5> Hmmm
14:26 < linkhyrule5> I might end up using Tohsaka Tokiomi as my facecast
14:26 < linkhyrule5> for those of you who've watched Fate/Zero
14:26 < linkhyrule5> Endovior - have you reached Moscow yet?
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15:05 < linkhyrule5> There are insufficient humans in existence
15:05 < linkhyrule5> Clearly I should create more.
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15:23 < Eva> *waves*
15:23 < Teceler> hello
15:24 < sonatagreen> hi
15:24 < Eva> Hey Tec, sonata
15:26 * linkhyrule5 feels ignored :P
15:27 * Teceler is distracted reading Panopticon Quest /which is your fault/ so
15:31 < linkhyrule5> hahahhah
15:31 < linkhyrule5> Fair enough
15:31 < linkhyrule5> Tbf Panopticon Quest is amazing
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15:57 < Endovior> linkhyrule5 was off getting supper; back now
15:57 < linkhyrule5> lol
15:57 < Endovior> And yeah, I'm currently reading Moscow
15:57 < linkhyrule5> Moscow is such a clusterfrak
15:57 < linkhyrule5> that'll be fun
15:57 < linkhyrule5> Oh, have you watched Evangelioin, or do you at least know what happens?
15:57 -!- Adelene has quit
15:58 < Endovior> I've gotten the 4chan tang synopsis version
15:58 < linkhyrule5> lol
15:58 < Endovior> Which is probably insufficient, but gives me AN idea
15:58 < linkhyrule5> look up "Asuka vs. Nine MP Evas"
15:58 < linkhyrule5> Also know that Henriette is /such/ an Asuka expy
15:59 < Endovior> noted
15:59 -!- Thatwasademo is now known as Thatwasaway
15:59 < Thatwasaway> i've been lurking here the entire time up until just now
16:02 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - What about planets with three+ stars? Three body systems are chaotic :P
16:02 < linkhyrule5> I mean, said planets are probably not habitable, but
16:02 * linkhyrule5 thinks nitpicking is fun :P
16:03 < kappabeta> Implicit context was inhabited planets
16:03 < linkhyrule5> Now I'm imagining a scenario like Asimov's Long Night
16:04 < linkhyrule5> with a planet with like nineish stars taht has /never known night/
16:08 -!- Eva has quit
16:14 -!- magicphd has quit
16:19 < Endovior> That was a good one, yeah
16:19 < Endovior> A very rational sort of horror story
16:30 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
16:35 -!- Kel has quit
16:41 -!- magicphd has joined #backstage
16:55 -!- Adelene has joined #backstage
17:03 < sonatagreen> would there be interest in, and/or does there already exist, an off topic channel for the tumblr bonobo rationalist / alicorn / glowfic community?
17:04 < kappabeta> hmm?
17:04 < Adelene> I don't know if one exists but I'd probably at least lurk it if I knew about it.
17:04 < sonatagreen> bc I kind of want to talk about dwarf fortress but with people I know instead of strangers in the dwarf fortress channel
17:04 < Adelene> Also, maybe try to talk Peer into partaking, which implies that being *very explicit* about the purpose of the thing would be helpful.
17:07 < kappabeta> ok i have to ask, who was attacked by vampires
17:07 < kappabeta> does anyone want to own up to this
17:07 < kappabeta> XD
17:07 < Adelene> Wasn't me.
17:07 < kappabeta> ^^
17:08 < magicphd> No idea
17:08 < linkhyrule5> I'm mildly tempted to go throw Entelechy at the problem until it goes away
17:08 < linkhyrule5> but I probably shouldn't
17:09 < kappabeta> Leaf has offered rescue, idk if they'll take him up on it
17:10 < kappabeta> for that matter it could've been a one-off
17:20 -!- Ergoemos has joined #backstage
17:20 < kappabeta> hello, name i don't recognize!
17:21 -!- Ergoemos is now known as Hadassah
17:21 < Hadassah> Sorry
17:21 < kappabeta> aha ^^
17:21 < Hadassah> My default when on other servers
17:21 < Hadassah> How is everyone?
17:22 < Adelene> :3
17:22 < kappabeta> <3
17:22 < Adelene> I should let the cat take me for walks more often.
17:22 < kappabeta> i'm wondering who was attacked by vampires XD
17:22 < sonatagreen> hi
17:24 < Endovior> *raises hand*
17:24 < Endovior> I am responsible for vampire-relavted posting
17:24 < Endovior> Caution to would-be rescuers; these are WoD-vampires, and are behind the Gauntlet
17:24 < kappabeta> Nice
17:25 < Endovior> Posting with an actual phone makes it feel nicely authentic, since I rely mostly on autocorrect.
17:25 < kappabeta> hee
17:26 < kappabeta> okay so what would happen if someone tried to qds-gate to inhiding
17:27 < Endovior> Roll Willpower to resist madness, and test your physical defences against being blown to pieces.
17:28 < kappabeta> hahahahahahaha
17:28 < Endovior> See: the stuff ME alluded to
17:28 < linkhyrule5> oh geeez
17:28 < linkhyrule5> Kindred are so charming
17:29 < kappabeta> Does the gate *work* though, or is it "fail, and ALSO have exploding eyeball problems"
17:29 < linkhyrule5> It's both.
17:29 < linkhyrule5> >.<
17:29 < kappabeta> hahaha
17:29 < linkhyrule5> ME knows this intimately.
17:29 < linkhyrule5> >.<
17:29 < kappabeta> hmm
17:29 < Endovior> It is easier to Gate in than to Gate out.
17:29 < linkhyrule5> He kind of found out all the many different ways a body can be ripped to shreds
17:29 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
17:29 < Endovior> You may have trouble leaving
17:29 < linkhyrule5> Made kind of annoyed faces at the Gauntlet the whole time
17:30 < Endovior> AND you'll have to deal with the aforementioned problems
17:30 < Endovior> In both directions
17:30 < linkhyrule5> Gates generally are two way
17:30 < linkhyrule5> You make a gate, which is a portal, and then you move freely back and forth
17:30 < linkhyrule5> well, it depends
17:30 < Endovior> Yeah; you'll get attacked each time you use it
17:31 < linkhyrule5> the summoning version isn't
17:31 < linkhyrule5> the summoning version is just a summoning
17:31 < Endovior> If you try to summon inhiding, it will end badly for her
17:31 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
17:32 < Endovior> She is somewhat capable for a mortal, but she IS mortal.
17:32 < Endovior> No superpowers apply
17:32 < linkhyrule5> I'm mildly tempted to teach the keeper Gate, and then have her gate her in, which kills her, and then have her grab inhiding out of her information cascade using that gate
17:32 < kappabeta> so "gate works, but attempting to go through it is a bad plan", or...?
17:32 < Endovior> Yes
17:32 < Endovior> Unless you are very invincible
17:32 < kappabeta> hahahaha
17:33 < Endovior> ME is very invincible, and can get away with it
17:33 < Endovior> But then he would be out of his house, and screwed
17:33 < kappabeta> okay I think the time has come for me to make a spreadsheet detailing my various characters' various attributes
17:34 < Endovior> If Esthfora is protecting you beyond the bounds of the forum, you have enough mental protection to not worry about the Gauntlet's mental attacks.
17:34 < Endovior> But you will need a physical buff to not die.
17:34 < Endovior> Or, like, torching-or-equivalent.
17:34 < kappabeta> haha, yeah
17:35 < kappabeta> I think Miles is going to consult Esthfora on "is this person on the level, and how screwed is Mark if I send him to rescue them"
17:35 < kappabeta> and the answer will be "yes and pretty damn screwed"?
17:35 < Endovior> Reasonable, and yes
17:35 -!- Thatwasaway is now known as Thatwasademo
17:36 < Thatwasademo> "I would seriously consider taking up the worship of any god whod help with vampires, though." oh man this would be the perfect opportunity for TSO to show up if only he had some way to reach the altar
17:36 < Endovior> Incidentally, Grigori could probably help here, but will not do so unless someone works out that inhiding is in the World of Darkness independently, then pokes him about it
17:37 < Endovior> He's busy with his own stuff, and tends to obsess much in doing so
17:39 < linkhyrule5> Hey Endovior
17:39 < linkhyrule5> If ME throws "Where is this guy" at the universe and bounces off the Gauntlet
17:39 < linkhyrule5> is he going to have to go deal with more ... mild annoyances? :P
17:39 < Endovior> Yes?
17:39 < Endovior> Yes, but no-more-so than before.
17:39 < linkhyrule5> Actually, he can just put up Entelechy's screen again
17:40 < Endovior> This is a low-bandwidth query.
17:40 < Endovior> And you know how to protect against direct attacks
17:40 < linkhyrule5> So "eyeballs explode, no answer"?
17:40 < Endovior> Yes
17:40 < linkhyrule5> mmkay
17:40 < Endovior> Which is a valid answer for 'where' in and of itself
17:40 < linkhyrule5> That's enough to get him "Oh hey it's the WOrld of Darkness again", wonderful
17:40 < linkhyrule5> hahahh
17:40 < linkhyrule5> yeah
17:40 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
17:40 < Adelene> pft
17:40 < Teceler> hee
17:41 < linkhyrule5> So yeah, ify ou want to get Grigori involved
17:41 < linkhyrule5> that's one way to do it
17:41 < Endovior> Poke me in character after doing so, and preferably mention that you've done so in the thread.
17:42 < linkhyrule5> well, it's more that you seem questionably comfortable with intercharacter interaction?
17:42 < linkhyrule5> So if you're fine with it it's what ME would do
17:42 < kappabeta> Leaf has openly pinged Esthfora. Her response is going to be "Bad place! It's dark and scary and it hates you! Don't go!"
17:42 < linkhyrule5> but I don't want to prod that
17:42 < kappabeta> legit?
17:42 < linkhyrule5> loool
17:42 < Endovior> I sort of prefer not to 'play with myself' too much
17:43 * linkhyrule5 snerks at that phrasing, because he is immature
17:43 < Endovior> If you get my meaning
17:43 < kappabeta> <3
17:43 < kappabeta> endovior, am I hitting the right note on Esthfora's answer XDDDDDD
17:43 < linkhyrule5> So yeah, it's what ME would do, but if it makes you uncomftable I'll find something else to do
17:43 < Endovior> Sure, that's reasonable
17:44 < Endovior> Also, Grigori will be helpful if poked, but will prove unable to completely resolve the situation on his own
17:44 < Endovior> For reasons which will be revealed in time
17:44 < kappabeta> haha
17:44 < Teceler> oh dear (@Reasons)
17:44 < linkhyrule5> Welll, I supsect that a major part of the problem
17:45 < linkhyrule5> is that the Camarilla is quite annoyingly prominent in world politics
17:45 < linkhyrule5> Well, this might be the Sabbat, but they aren't pushovers either
17:45 < Endovior> *ding* *ding* *ding*
17:45 < linkhyrule5> Figured
17:45 < linkhyrule5> *grumble grumble*
17:45 < linkhyrule5> Hey, Endovior
17:45 < Endovior> Yes?
17:45 < linkhyrule5> What will you say if ME finds Creation? :V
17:46 < Endovior> Like, Exalted-Creation?
17:46 < Teceler> ...ha
17:46 < linkhyrule5> Exalted Creation.
17:46 < Endovior> That's the back-in-time version of the WoD.
17:46 < linkhyrule5> (On a side note, Creation is an excellent example of a different Truth
17:46 < Endovior> And I'd be comfortable doing things with Exalted-type characters.
17:46 < linkhyrule5> because it has Wyld in every direciton, there is no concept of space beyond Creation, and everything runs on motes)
17:46 < Endovior> Yep
17:46 < linkhyrule5> (Also it forces a big past on thee entire multiverse)
17:47 < linkhyrule5> (So it's kind of incomptabile with everyone else)
17:47 < kappabeta> hmm?
17:47 < Thatwasademo> If there was any plausible way to get inhiding to a TSO altar he would have rN+ at the very least right now
17:47 < linkhyrule5> Well, Nocturnals might be able to find their way out
17:47 < linkhyrule5> rN+?
17:47 < Thatwasademo> resist negative energy
17:47 < linkhyrule5> ah
17:47 < linkhyrule5> heh
17:47 < Thatwasademo> one "pip" of it
17:47 < linkhyrule5> well, that would help a little, but not so much
17:47 < Endovior> inhiding hasn't mentioned it, but she is female, fyi
17:47 < linkhyrule5> Kindred are mostly the "claw/cut/shoot you to death" kind
17:48 < Thatwasademo> plus a chance to negate damage at the cost of piety
17:48 < Thatwasademo> and so on
17:48 < linkhyrule5> That would help more, but Celerty would mean she'd run out of piety super fast
17:48 < linkhyrule5> also probaby die.
17:48 < linkhyrule5> Put it this way: In a world which contains Mages plausibly able to contest ME in power, Kindred are not an ignorable problem.
17:48 < Thatwasademo> I guess TSO's powers wouldn't help very much unless he could get one kill
17:49 < linkhyrule5> They're not the most powerful in the world, but they are Major Players.
17:49 < linkhyrule5> Unfortunately.
17:49 < linkhyrule5> >.<
17:49 < linkhyrule5> Endovior - upon further thought, it doesn't seem very plausible for Grigori to remain ignorant of this forever
17:49 < linkhyrule5> so ME will post in thread but let someone else bug Grigori
17:51 < linkhyrule5> posted
17:51 < linkhyrule5> does inhiding have a response to my eyeballs detonating (again)
17:52 < kappabeta> omg XD
17:52 < linkhyrule5> (I swear this is turnign into a running gag)
17:52 < Teceler> XD
17:52 < kappabeta> "Unfortunately, judging from the way my eyeballs vigorously detonated"
17:52 < kappabeta> <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <#
17:52 < kappabeta> just
17:52 < kappabeta> that phrasing
17:52 < kappabeta> oh my god
17:52 < linkhyrule5> ME is very nonchalant about bodily integrity
17:52 < linkhyrule5> :V
17:52 < Endovior> Noted
17:52 < linkhyrule5> Actually I feel like Leaf might express some concern there. >.>
17:53 < kappabeta> some concern where?
17:53 < kappabeta> re: ME's eyeballs?
17:53 < linkhyrule5> yes
17:53 < linkhyrule5> if not morbid curiosity at why he seems familiar with this sensation
17:54 < linkhyrule5> Huh
17:54 < linkhyrule5> I wonder if Eva would survive.
17:54 < linkhyrule5> I didn't get the impression that her brand of vampire was all that good at surviving physical damage, but I could be wrong
17:54 < linkhyrule5> The other obvious option is Raezenoth, actually, since he care sabout his body even less than ME does, I think?
17:55 < kappabeta> concern and morbid curiosity have been expressed
17:55 < linkhyrule5> Thank you! I love morbid curisoity and concern both!
17:55 < Endovior> If Raezenoth qualifies as "any god whod help with vampires", sure
17:56 < kappabeta> Leaf is actually STILL considering sending Mark, because they have two backups against death - the keeper, and the fact that they've all summoned miscellaneous daeva in case this hooks them up to a daevine afterlife
17:56 < kappabeta> but he's going to hold off until the situation gets noticeably more urgent
17:57 < linkhyrule5> Well, I get the impression he'd happily bring her to his domain?
17:57 < linkhyrule5> Though, wait, she'd get exploded on the way out, wouldn't she.
17:57 < Teceler> which is probably not a improvement
17:57 < Endovior> Prety much
17:57 < Adelene> *amused at Astra*
17:57 < kappabeta> hahaha
17:58 < linkhyrule5> You have /no/ idea how tempted ME is to tell her to just delete the Gauntlet already
17:58 < linkhyrule5> but he's pretty sure that'd screw over the WoD something fierce, so he won't
17:58 < kappabeta> hahahahahahahahaha
17:59 < Endovior> The Gauntlet is a serious enough thing that it can hold its own against Excrucians.
17:59 < Endovior> In particular, if its masters are getting involved
17:59 < Endovior> Which they would, in response to such an attack
18:00 < Teceler> ...hahaha
18:00 < linkhyrule5> ME may or may not know this, and would happily send in Astra either way!
18:00 < linkhyrule5> In fact he might be more likely to if he does :P
18:00 < kappabeta> ...oh hey, what happens if you summon a daeva into the WoD
18:00 < Adelene> pffft
18:02 < Endovior> Possible contamination of Nexus with WoD-specific powers
18:02 < kappabeta> huh?
18:02 < Endovior> Er... Daevinity, not Nexus
18:02 < Endovior> derp
18:02 < kappabeta> yeah
18:02 < linkhyrule5> In particular, Mania and - Endovior, are Exasltations still a thing?
18:02 < Endovior> This was mentioned earlier, re: Grigori brute-forcing summoning instructions
18:03 < linkhyrule5> are there still 300 golden shards in cages somewhere under the ocean?
18:03 < Endovior> Exaltations are not actively a thing in modern WoD.
18:03 < Endovior> They are... inactive, let's say
18:03 < linkhyrule5> I kind of want to throw Autochthon at the Gauntlet and go "FREE SOULS!"
18:03 < linkhyrule5> this also a bad idea
18:04 < kappabeta> hahaha
18:04 < Thatwasademo> well the gods have weighed in
18:04 < linkhyrule5> did Xom offer to banish her to the abyss?
18:04 < linkhyrule5> Because that might actually be an improvement this time
18:04 < Teceler> damn it, stop giving me plot ideas
18:04 < kappabeta> hahahahahahaha
18:04 < Thatwasademo> no, because he's not going to make promises he can't carry out
18:04 < Thatwasademo> unless it's REALLY amusing
18:05 < Adelene> Xom would find the Gauntlet hilarious though.
18:05 < Thatwasademo> also banishing into the abyss would probably hit the Gauntlet
18:05 < Thatwasademo> both on the way into the Abyss and after going through a gateway out
18:06 < Thatwasademo> Xom definitely *does* find the Gauntlet hilarious
18:06 < kappabeta> the Gauntlet is so annoying. XD
18:07 < Thatwasademo> He actually as said things about it before
18:07 < Thatwasademo> iirc
18:07 < Thatwasademo> something about complimenting style
18:08 < Adelene> oh right
18:09 < linkhyrule5> yeah
18:09 < linkhyrule5> he liked the Gauntlet's style
18:09 < linkhyrule5> Hey Endovior, how much did ME eventually get out of the Gauntlet about the Kindred?
18:10 < linkhyrule5> You said "brief rundown", how rough is that?
18:10 < linkhyrule5> I assume he doesn't have a copy of "Vampire: the Masquerade" on his desk
18:10 < Endovior> He does not
18:10 < Endovior> Let's see...
18:10 < linkhyrule5> Or "Vampire: the Requiem", for that matter :P
18:10 < Endovior> http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Vampire_(cWOD)
18:10 < Endovior> Assume you know the contents of that wiki article IC
18:11 < linkhyrule5> It strikes me that all this references to her being inexplicably exploded
18:11 < linkhyrule5> is probably worrying inhiding!
18:11 < linkhyrule5> also the whole "your world is scary and awful to crossuniversal magic people"
18:12 < Endovior> Yeah, there are a lot of strange references, and she doesn't quite get superpowers and such
18:12 < Thatwasademo> possible plot fork that won't happen for tone reasons: D.S.S. Souleye crashes into the Gauntlet
18:12 < Thatwasademo> everything is terrible
18:12 < Endovior> Yep, doesn't really fit
18:12 < Thatwasademo> I mean, the crew would survive
18:12 < Thatwasademo> but the ship would be very, very badly damaged
18:13 < Endovior> And it kind of wrecks your own plot
18:13 < Endovior> Yeah
18:13 < Endovior> Plus, hasn't it been established that they're heading to Nexus, or whatever?
18:13 < Thatwasademo> and then they'd be stuck with no weaponry dying over and over again
18:13 < Thatwasademo> well yeah, but that could have been anywhere
18:14 < Thatwasademo> Nexus just happened to be nearby and obvious from the outside
18:14 < Thatwasademo> what with all the wormholes
18:14 < linkhyrule5> Well, if they're Outside between Truths there are a few people who can help
18:15 < linkhyrule5> Orz might be able to *paint* them somewhere nice-ish, and/or give the mresources to makea DSS?
18:15 < Endovior> Orz, for one
18:15 < Endovior> heh
18:15 < Thatwasademo> Pretty sure the Souleye doesn't travel between Truths (at least not easily), just between worlds with similar Truth
18:15 < linkhyrule5> ah
18:15 < Thatwasademo> Dimensions, as it were
18:16 < linkhyrule5> ha
18:16 < linkhyrule5> quite
18:16 < Thatwasademo> I mean, the worlds can have very different rules, but I think it would be somewhat special for them to encounter a point of interaction with Entelecheiai
18:17 < linkhyrule5> ....
18:17 < linkhyrule5> Astra had an interesting idea, and ME is hitting himself for not thinking of it regardless of whether or not it works
18:17 < kappabeta> heeeee
18:17 < linkhyrule5> Endovior, ME tosses something with a perfect stealth Charm on it, at the Gauntlet
18:17 < linkhyrule5> what happens?
18:18 < linkhyrule5> Biggish scry, the scry is enchanted to be imperceptible, there is an infinite series of impercebility on top of that
18:18 < linkhyrule5> because recursion and what is this time thing
18:18 < linkhyrule5> (The scry is imperceptible, the imperceptibility spell is imperceptible, the imperceptibilit yspell making the imperceptible spell imperceptible is imperceptible, and so on)
18:18 < Endovior> What is the question?
18:18 < Adelene> ...now I kind of wonder what the Gauntlet would make of Lurker. Presumbaly still gibblets, but.
18:18 < kappabeta> hahahahahaha
18:18 < linkhyrule5> The usual stuff that got him exploded
18:18 < linkhyrule5> "How does the world work"
18:19 < linkhyrule5> "More details about these entities"
18:19 < linkhyrule5> "Can I have this splat"
18:19 < linkhyrule5> Not questioning the Gauntlet itself yet
18:19 < Endovior> You can indeed have a splat.
18:19 < Endovior> All over the room
18:19 < Thatwasademo> Xom roars with laughter!
18:20 < kappabeta> imperceptibility doesn't, then?
18:21 < sonatagreen> This is an finely-crafted !!plot!!. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality.
18:21 < Endovior> It has a *chance* of working, as repeated experiments will demonstrate
18:21 < linkhyrule5> loool
18:21 < Adelene> heeeeee
18:21 < linkhyrule5> Oh fun
18:21 < Endovior> Works better with low-bandwidth stuff
18:21 < linkhyrule5> ME throws a scry at the chance of working!
18:21 < Endovior> Which is the general case of the Gauntlet
18:21 < linkhyrule5> With imperceptibility
18:21 < Thatwasademo> sneaky pasta
18:21 < Thatwasademo> hee
18:21 < linkhyrule5> Literally pasta >.>
18:22 < Endovior> Asking short, specific questions is better than trying to get library books at a time
18:22 < linkhyrule5> "less chance of our rescuee's eyeballs exploding."
18:22 < linkhyrule5> loool
18:23 < linkhyrule5> If he sets a hundred bodies to independently asking "What is the single most important thing to know about the World of Darkness to me?", what happens?
18:23 < Thatwasademo> would you say the Gauntlet is more like the world being covered in spikes or the world being orbited by LIES
18:24 < Endovior> Covered in spikes, definitely
18:25 < Thatwasademo> (or, you know, other equivalent fast-moving enemy)
18:25 < Endovior> There are ways to get through them, but small and subtle has a better chance of making it through an arbitrary spike field.
18:26 < Endovior> And a hundred bodies trying the same broad-ish question will splat; it's a bandwidth thing.
18:26 < linkhyrule5> Oh hey, here's a small bandwidth question that'd be useful to ask
18:26 < Endovior> Yes?
18:26 < Thatwasademo> so like a *complicated* spike field
18:26 < linkhyrule5> If Astra tries to go nope the local vampires, will inhiding go splat?
18:26 < Endovior> Nope
18:27 < linkhyrule5> great
18:28 < linkhyrule5> Also, the idea there was picking a specific-ish question and asking it lots of time,s but.
18:29 < linkhyrule5> "Who or what made the Gauntlet?"
18:30 < linkhyrule5> lol Grigori
18:30 < linkhyrule5> "For, uh... the obvious reasons."
18:30 < Endovior> Answer: Everyone in the world.
18:30 < kappabeta> hahahahahahahahahahaha
18:31 -!- Thatwasademo is now known as Thatwasaway
18:31 < linkhyrule5> ... ahhhhhhhh.
18:31 < linkhyrule5> Now i understand.
18:32 < linkhyrule5> Plan self-assembling memetic virus is go!
18:32 * linkhyrule5 intentionally says somethig worrisome without explanation
18:33 < Thatwasaway> Xom anticipates greatness!
18:33 < linkhyrule5> loool
18:33 < Thatwasaway> but seriously now i have calculuuus
18:33 < linkhyrule5> loool
18:34 < Thatwasaway> and subpar transportation
18:34 < linkhyrule5> No, Leaf! Stay good! Stay good!
18:34 < linkhyrule5> :P
18:34 < kappabeta> what? XD
18:34 < Thatwasaway> so I have to go hours early
18:34 < Thatwasaway> where's my teleporter
18:35 < linkhyrule5> He's falling to the Dark Side
18:35 < linkhyrule5> He's teeeempppptteeeeed!
18:35 < linkhyrule5> :P
18:35 < kappabeta> I mean. No. Not really.
18:35 < kappabeta> XD
18:35 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
18:36 < kappabeta> Like, he thinks Astra is worth being POLITE to, and potentially worth deploying where other resources are unavailable or ineffective and the stakes are high enough to be worth it. But note that while the statement he made was perfectly true, he also hasn't met any other reality-destroying entities.
18:37 < linkhyrule5> hahahahaah
18:39 < kappabeta> Of the reality-destroying entities that he can imagine, Astra Nephthys is pretty low on the "how much should I worry about this" scale.
18:39 < linkhyrule5> true
18:39 < kappabeta> That doesn't mean he's a fan of hers.
18:39 < linkhyrule5> Also true.
18:40 < linkhyrule5> ME is basically of the same opinion
18:40 < linkhyrule5> SO long as she's playing nice, let's not convince her to change strategies
18:40 -!- Sky has quit
18:40 < kappabeta> Although he has considered offering to help her deal with her, like, incurable cancer problem
18:40 < kappabeta> on the grounds that being in constant pain probably isn't making her any _more_ benign than she would otherwise be, and, well, pain hurts
18:43 < linkhyrule5> hah
18:44 < linkhyrule5> Endovior: What happens if inhiding gets in a car and drives straight north at freeway speeds?
18:44 < linkhyrule5> (Also, what time is it for her?)
18:44 < Endovior> (late afternoon)
18:45 < Endovior> Also, she gets in an accident and probably dies, as she does not know how to drive
18:45 < kappabeta> hahahahahahaha
18:45 < linkhyrule5> .. how old is she?
18:46 < Endovior> 16
18:46 < linkhyrule5> ah.
18:46 < linkhyrule5> that... complicates things
18:46 < linkhyrule5> Is there a taxi service that could, safely and reliably, get to her location, and then drive straight north at freeway speeds?
18:47 < Endovior> Yes
18:47 < linkhyrule5> Great.
18:47 < linkhyrule5> What is the phone number?
18:47 < linkhyrule5> (obv. you don't have to tell me OOC)
18:47 < linkhyrule5> (just "splat or no")
18:47 < Endovior> It would be expensive, since she is in the woods
18:48 < Endovior> (number)
18:48 < Endovior> And would require extra convincing
18:48 < linkhyrule5> Tch.
18:48 < linkhyrule5> He knows that the Hunters exist, right?
18:48 < Endovior> Yes
18:48 < linkhyrule5> What happens if he has her call the local-est Hunter group and says "blargh vampires help"?
18:49 < linkhyrule5> One day, one week, one month, one year, at some point he'll splat but he'll keep going until he does?
18:49 < linkhyrule5> He's mostly checking for "And then the Hunters shanghai her to training camp to keep the Masquerade" or something
18:49 < linkhyrule5> or "And then the Camarilla find out and put out a hit on her"
18:49 < linkhyrule5> or "And then the Technocarcy find out..." etc etc
18:50 < Endovior> Nearest Hunter group... is super-paranoid, shanghai is likely.
18:50 < Endovior> They won't risk exposure, and a contact out of the blue smells like trap
18:51 < Endovior> She's likely to live, though
18:51 < linkhyrule5> grumble grumble
18:51 < linkhyrule5> What if Grigori does it?
18:52 < linkhyrule5> Ignore "will Grigori actually do it" for the moment
18:52 < Endovior> Does... what?
18:52 < linkhyrule5> Calls the nearest Hunter group, officially, as a member of the Peerage
18:52 < linkhyrule5> wait no there's no information crossover
18:52 < Endovior> There's no information crossover
18:52 < linkhyrule5> becuase World of Darkness is terrible at cross-splat stuff
18:52 < linkhyrule5> Dang.
18:52 < linkhyrule5> So that's jsut "another weird person"
18:52 < linkhyrule5> unless he starts Mania-ing them into complying which is suboptimal.
18:53 < Endovior> The nearest hunter group is specifically aware of the existence of vampires and werewolves, and is distently aware of other weird things that are probably all awful
18:53 < Endovior> Because they're generally right in that assumption
18:53 < linkhyrule5> hahahah
18:53 < linkhyrule5> What if he got the Technocracy involved somehow?
18:54 < linkhyrule5> "There exist this hemophage cell; I have gotten a distress call so they're at the very least being clumsy about it"
18:54 < linkhyrule5> oh wait Cam
18:54 < linkhyrule5> blargh
18:54 < Endovior> That is especially likely to end in mind-wiping.
18:54 < linkhyrule5> stupid Darkness.
18:54 < Endovior> The 'crats are not nice people
18:55 < linkhyrule5> Well, not as a whole anyway
18:55 < linkhyrule5> I like ES's interpretationg that they shuffle the idealists off to helping people in Africa or whatever
18:55 < linkhyrule5> with low-influence positions
18:55 < Endovior> Keep things quiet first and foremost, we don't want the concensus knowing that Vamps are a thing
18:55 < Endovior> That is a thing, yes
18:56 < linkhyrule5> Hm.
18:56 < linkhyrule5> Actually, I should probably get some more information first...
18:57 < linkhyrule5> Post in thread, but I'm also asking the universe the same thing
18:57 < linkhyrule5> why are the vampires after her in particular
18:57 < linkhyrule5> Presuably "breach of Masquerade" but
18:57 < linkhyrule5> in particular, what?
18:58 < linkhyrule5> Oh fun
18:58 < linkhyrule5> So now the Technocrats and Traditions get to go get together to fend off an incursion of Excrucian
18:59 < linkhyrule5> And presumably the Peerage too, but those are the big two power-wise
18:59 < Adelene> Lurker is going to be so confused when she gets around to reading this.
19:00 < kappabeta> oh?
19:00 < kappabeta> I mean, by which parts in particular?
19:00 < Adelene> Assuming she doesn't nope out as soon as she gets to Astra's bit, which she might. She's been getting steadily twitchier about all these gods running around.
19:01 < Adelene> And she has Astra tagged as bad news and also sneaky, but this is odd even for that pair of traits.
19:02 < Adelene> (It makes sense for a long game but kobolds mostly don't do long game.)
19:02 < kappabeta> haha
19:05 < linkhyrule5> Endovior - why are the vampires attacking her and her family?
19:05 < linkhyrule5> (Also, there has been a standing question to Orz for awhile now, fyi
19:05 < Endovior> Young vampire tying up loose ends, in a relatively unsubtle way
19:06 < Endovior> (also, noted; I probably missed something at some point)
19:06 < linkhyrule5> I see.
19:06 -!- Sky has joined #backstage
19:06 < linkhyrule5> I thought Kindred had nonzero Humanity?
19:06 < linkhyrule5> Like, in general, "mass murder" should be Humanity 3 or so
19:06 < linkhyrule5> and most Kindred start at 7ish
19:08 < Endovior> PC Kindred do. Not all are shining specimens of the tragic monster variety. And it's not so much 'mass murder' as 'a handful of specific people, in the company of a friend, plus I'm also hungry'.
19:08 < linkhyrule5> ah
19:08 < linkhyrule5> I see
19:09 < linkhyrule5> fair enough then
19:09 < Endovior> Plus, it's not necessarily murder, but when running from evident vampires ffeeding on blood, one doesn't take care to check if they were actually killed afterwards
19:09 < linkhyrule5> Because mass Embrace is so muhch better.
19:09 < linkhyrule5> Well, no
19:09 < linkhyrule5> it could just be eating, but.. that wouldn't be cleanup.
19:10 < linkhyrule5> is he wiping their minds or something?
19:10 < Endovior> You're actually asking that?
19:10 < linkhyrule5> Oh, Teceler - I sent a thing
19:10 < linkhyrule5> He could not have Dominate!
19:10 < linkhyrule5> He could be hoping to make willing blood slaves out of them or something!
19:11 < linkhyrule5> there are totally other things he could be doi - yeah that was a stupid question
19:11 < linkhyrule5> soooo what, are they just going "Oh hey that cousin kind of left and never came back, and for unrelated reasons my neck is sore"?
19:12 < Endovior> Variety of things. One actual (accidental) death, plus a few cases of mental influence and one actual ghouling. She's a loose end, which they are interested in.
19:13 < linkhyrule5> I see.
19:13 < linkhyrule5> Lots of trauma there.
19:14 < Endovior> brb
19:15 < Teceler> kappabeta: Are you willing to pretend that Leaf got message from Tyche before this thread happened? (It's basically 'Firewall is willing to work with you versus world-destroying threats'). I feel like it should have gone out earlier but it is being stubborn and Thorn wants to make a comment in this thread that is based on the assumption that that happened
19:15 < kappabeta> uh hmmmmm
19:16 < kappabeta> I think I'd need to see the note to feel comfortable playing as though it had been sent
19:16 < kappabeta> but other than that, sure
19:17 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - I replied to the thread
19:17 < linkhyrule5> the exsurgent thread
19:17 < Teceler> I saw, that is the next thing
19:17 < linkhyrule5> kk
19:18 < linkhyrule5> wasn't sure
19:18 < Teceler> I will attack it again. It is pretty much a very polite very diplomatic version of that, with some of the 'you are an unknown organization are we do not fully trust you so if you are not actually working toward your stated goals all bets are off' from some of the public statements earlier
19:19 < kappabeta> yeah
19:19 < kappabeta> Leaf can handle that sort of thing
19:20 < Teceler> since they are he doesn't need to worry about that clause, yeah
19:20 < kappabeta> hahahahahaha
19:20 < kappabeta> i mean he can *also* handle a certain amount of hostility from mistaken potential allies, but yeah
19:20 < Teceler> unless you have been cleverly concealing something :P
19:20 < kappabeta> pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
19:20 < linkhyrule5> Leaf
19:20 < kappabeta> i am not that clever
19:20 < linkhyrule5> is SECRETLY AN EVIL VAMPIRE
19:20 < kappabeta> XD
19:20 < kappabeta> no.
19:20 < Teceler> XD
19:21 < linkhyrule5> ... is SECRETLY AN EVIL PENGUIN
19:21 < Teceler> it's more 'jumpy paranoid potential allies', but, yeah
19:23 < kappabeta> <3
19:25 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
19:26 < Eva> Grigori, are you in?
19:26 < linkhyrule5> he said he'd brb
19:26 < Teceler> that
19:26 < Eva> Ah, I see.
19:27 < Teceler> he should have scrollback, though, when he gets back
19:29 < sonatagreen> who is grigori? I forget
19:29 < Endovior> back
19:29 < Eva> Hi!
19:29 < Endovior> What's happening?
19:29 < Endovior> Oh, and hi
19:29 < Teceler> Eva wanted to talk to you
19:29 < Endovior> Hi, Eva!
19:30 < Endovior> I am in again, yes
19:30 < Eva> Well, dramatic vampire rescues/firefights are about to happen. (I run Astra.)
19:32 < Eva> Hiding has ~ two hours. Astra is on her way at the moment and may or may not arrive in time.
19:33 < Eva> She may or may not have to fight various Geniuses and other WoD metahumans on the way.
19:34 < Eva> This sounds like it could use some planning!
19:34 < Endovior> Post from Argus, it is relevant
19:35 < kappabeta> oh my god the noise leaf just made
19:37 < kappabeta> (rageshriek. rageshriek is the noise.)
19:38 < Teceler> okay, I think I got something reasonable this time
19:38 < Teceler> (now, excuse me while I investigate the thread to see what caused the noise)
19:38 < kappabeta> Argus caused the noise. Although Eva, is Astra going to change her plan based on that...?
19:39 < kappabeta> ahaha
19:39 < Eva> Astra is /out of words./
19:39 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, the Technocracy is kind of made of dicks.
19:39 < linkhyrule5> Not 100% made of dicks
19:39 < linkhyrule5> but like
19:39 < linkhyrule5> 80%?
19:39 < linkhyrule5> Ish?
19:40 < linkhyrule5> Oh, Endovior - I may as well ask now, I know about 1999, right?
19:40 < kappabeta> Objection. Dicks have positive value. XD
19:40 < Eva> They could be dangerous even to Astra though. They have a Consensus behind them.
19:40 * linkhyrule5 snerks
19:40 * Eva snerks.
19:40 < linkhyrule5> The Consnsus turns out to be what was keeping out ME too
19:40 < linkhyrule5> actually
19:40 < linkhyrule5> >.>
19:40 < linkhyrule5> Hence the self-assembling memetic virus plan
19:40 < Teceler> um, I appear to have just sent a blank pm, just a moment
19:40 < linkhyrule5> Endovior - 1999, bunch of high-powered mages dying in space in a universe with an afterlife?
19:41 < linkhyrule5> (AKA: ME goes and finds out about Threat Null, the Rogue Council, and while he's at it just totally plunders all the unwarded information outside the Gauntlet)
19:41 < Endovior> Sure
19:41 < linkhyrule5> which is not a lot, because it takes serious magery to get out of the Gauntlet in the first place, but
19:41 < linkhyrule5> Okay, so I'm _sure_ there's wards against this, but I'll let you decide how much he gets (or if he goes 'splat')
19:42 < linkhyrule5> What happens if he breaks the VE's info embargo
19:42 < linkhyrule5> and goes "Hey Threat Null's a thing!"
19:42 < Endovior> Shit goes down
19:42 < linkhyrule5> I'mguessing "Technocracy collapses into infighting, everyone dies"
19:42 < linkhyrule5> but it's worth a check
19:43 < linkhyrule5> Yeah like, the Technocracy are like 80% horrible people , but they sometimes have to be because the WoD just generally sucks for eveyrone?
19:43 < linkhyrule5> So.
19:44 < kappabeta> oh by the way eva, Leaf's been considering contacting Astra about the reality-cancer problem Lioncourt mentioned
19:44 < linkhyrule5> Actually, can I just get "next three hours, inhiding's perspective"?
19:44 < linkhyrule5> Endovior?
19:44 < kappabeta> and being like, "that sounds completely terrible, can I help you"
19:44 < Endovior> ?
19:45 < Endovior> No, no you cannot
19:45 < Eva> Kappa: It's highly unlikely that it could be helped, but you could try.
19:45 < Eva> Astra is going to get creative at this point.
19:46 < kappabeta> what creative things is she going to do
19:46 < linkhyrule5> At this point I'm going to start keeping a "ME splat" count
19:46 < Eva> She is going to call one of her Excrucian friends who can do perfect disguises.
19:46 < linkhyrule5> Uh, next half hour?
19:47 < linkhyrule5> Eva?
19:47 < linkhyrule5> Er, I don't know if Astra knows this OOC, but I may as well tell you that ME tried that already >.>
19:47 < linkhyrule5> Gauntlet is apparently very good at this >.>
19:47 < linkhyrule5> Endovior - is she /warded/ now?
19:48 < Endovior> ?
19:48 < linkhyrule5> inhiding
19:48 < linkhyrule5> Did some "helpful" Technocrat ward her?
19:48 < linkhyrule5> "Establish entropic noise in her vicinity" or something
19:48 < Endovior> Yes.
19:48 < Endovior> Or something, at least
19:48 -!- Eva has quit
19:49 < Endovior> You're not getting good info at least.
19:50 < linkhyrule5> *grumble*
19:52 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
19:52 < kappabeta> hello reappearing eva
19:52 * Eva went and dragged up info on Excrucian Decievers.
19:53 < kappabeta> XD
19:53 < Eva> "In a ritual that takes a day — dawn to dawn, dusk to dusk, or some incomprehensible equivalent in the Lands Beyond Creation — a Deceiver may tell themselves the story that they are someone else. In this fashion they weave about themselves the power of someone real that they have met. The result is not particularly obvious."
19:54 < Eva> The person whose life they borrow most likely will not notice — will feel an apprehension, at the most, a shudder, as if someone had walked across their grave. Those who look at the Deceiver are unlikely to see the lie: they change their spirit, not their body."
19:54 < Eva> "But the Deceiver gains in the course of the ritual full access to everything that person is. They gain their mortal skills. Their passions. Their loves and hates and needs. They gain their powers — for instance, and most importantly, the miraculous abilities a Power or Imperator has."
19:55 < Eva> Excrucian Decievers are /very good at lying./
19:55 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
19:55 < linkhyrule5> But it's not perfect, in the sense of a perfect defense.
19:55 < Eva> Fortunately, Astra is a Strategist.
19:56 < Eva> It's not perfect, and in fact has a key weakness.
19:56 < linkhyrule5> I suspect, in fact, that the high powered effects are running into Paradox.
19:56 < Eva> Name the story — find whose power it is they have stolen — and you may control the Deceiver. This is a limited power. It can’t be used against them more than once every few hours and only by someone loyal to Creation. You get one order, one command that you can slip under their second skin."
19:57 < Eva> (And it elaborates that it lasts for about three days or until the Excrucian sheds the lie.)
19:57 < kappabeta> is astra actually trying to save inhiding, here
19:58 < kappabeta> also: Let's suppose somebody steps through a gate into the WoD, explodes, becomes a daeva, opens another gate, and steps through it. *Can* they get back out afterward, even if it will be very unpleasant to do so?
19:59 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
19:59 < Endovior> I'm going to go with 'possibly not' and 'be prepared to be have an interesting and time-consuming misadventure'.
20:00 < kappabeta> what sort of interesting and time-consuming misadventure
20:00 < Endovior> The kind where you can't leave for awhile and need to figure out another way home
20:00 < kappabeta> hahahaha
20:01 < kappabeta> is Astra completely determined to try something even if it results in a war?
20:01 < kappabeta> what *is* astra's motivation here
20:01 < Eva> Astra is trying something now, since she had an idea.
20:02 < Endovior> Does it currently involve any attempt to enter the WoD at all?
20:02 < Eva> No.
20:02 < Endovior> kk
20:02 < Eva> Not currently.
20:04 < Eva> Astra is personally offended at this point, but doesn't want Inhiding to die.
20:04 < kappabeta> hahaha
20:04 < kappabeta> man, leaf is personally offended too
20:04 < kappabeta> i wish i could describe the rageshriek he let out when he read argus's post
20:05 < linkhyrule5> Endovior - if it's just the Technocracy and not the Gauntlet, ME is going to put a stupid-by-mortal-mage-standards about of mana behind the same question and punch through it
20:05 < Endovior> heh... much explode
20:05 * linkhyrule5 le sighs
20:05 < Endovior> Hitting the Gauntlet with power DOES NOT WORK.
20:06 < linkhyrule5> It's not the Gauntlet this time
20:06 < Endovior> It has more to burn than you do
20:06 < sonatagreen> I feel like Archangel is being quietly terrified, and trying to figure out how to avoid getting any of this mess on him, and trying to figure out how to turn this situation to his advantage, and approving of the Technocracy's approach.
20:06 < linkhyrule5> I suspect that would not be true, but oh well
20:06 < Endovior> Yes, but you cannot sneaky and power
20:06 < linkhyrule5> Why not?
20:06 < linkhyrule5> It's like a needle point in the spikefield metaphor
20:06 < linkhyrule5> He wants a very small amount of information, he just really really wants it
20:06 < linkhyrule5> loool
20:06 < linkhyrule5> Are you archangel?
20:06 < sonatagreen> no
20:07 < Endovior> Because the Gauntlet is better against big things than small things, and large amounts of mana is something it can catch.
20:07 < sonatagreen> just an scp fan
20:07 < linkhyrule5> Er... not really.
20:07 < linkhyrule5> Mana isn't that sort of thing. Mana is a measure of existence, not, like, MP
20:07 < Endovior> Also, for reference, Argus is actually plotting with the SCP folks already
20:07 < kappabeta> oh GOD
20:07 < linkhyrule5> *oi*
20:07 < sonatagreen> also, isn't it like a lot of individually small queries?
20:07 < Endovior> PMs
20:07 < Teceler> ahahaha
20:07 < kappabeta> Leaf: *RAGESHRIEK*
20:08 < Endovior> Although Archangel specifically hasn't been on lately, it seems
20:08 < linkhyrule5> yeah, I've noticed
20:08 < linkhyrule5> I've been trying to get into contact with him
20:08 < sonatagreen> maybe he's being reeducated
20:08 < linkhyrule5> because we need to run Keter's worldscry
20:08 < kappabeta> haha
20:08 < linkhyrule5> But yeah, Endovior - large amounts of mana don't actually look any different
20:09 -!- sonatagreen has quit
20:09 < linkhyrule5> like if you put a lot of mana into a small area, you don't get a really magical object, you get a really ... very there object
20:09 < linkhyrule5> It might look a little bit more solid or something. That's about it.
20:09 < Teceler> okay, while I try to work out why the forum is blanking the pms, kappa:
20:09 < Eva> So... Like Binky?
20:09 < linkhyrule5> Basically.
20:09 < linkhyrule5> If your'e talking about Death's Horse.
20:10 < Teceler> "I am speaking to you on behalf of Firewall. You have had previous contact with one of our sentinels under the alias of 'Thorn', who, like many people affiliated with our organization, is rather paranoid. You are likely to have observed her statements of the reasons for this; the exsurgent virus is an omnipresent threat in our world. // We have received information regarding your proposed organization, and wish to express i
20:10 < Teceler> nterest. We are, for hopefully obvious reasons, opposed to world-destroying threats. We would be willing to ally ourselves with your organization provided you uphold your mission statement and adhere to reasonable standards of risk-management and ethical behavior."
20:10 < kappabeta> hahaha
20:10 < kappabeta> okay
20:10 < Teceler> yeah, Leaf is going to have Questions, I know
20:10 < Teceler> but it actually came out sounding somewhat right, so
20:10 < kappabeta> and yeah i'm confuse about why the PM got blanked
20:11 < kappabeta> have you tried sending it again?
20:11 < Teceler> I think it might have been the brackets which it tried to interpret as bbcode and explosions?
20:11 < kappabeta> there were brackets?
20:11 < Teceler> yeah, indicating it was an audio recording, basically
20:11 < Teceler> I left those out of the copy-paste
20:11 < kappabeta> aha
20:12 < Endovior> Things that are 'more there' are specifically more vulnerable to the Gauntlet, yes. You want to get past it by being less there.
20:12 < linkhyrule5> Anyway, yeah, Endovior - unless you're from Entelechy and know how Entelechy works, I'm basically ruling that you can't detect lots of mana without some really wonky things. It's like... an Excellency
20:12 < linkhyrule5> Er. No, that's... *sigh*
20:13 < linkhyrule5> Not that kind of there-ness... Entelechy is still hard to explain.
20:13 < linkhyrule5> It's not a matter of more or less subtle.
20:13 < Endovior> Conceptually, you can't break the Gauntlet with power unless you're willing to set a galaxy on fire or something.
20:14 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, but... it's not breaking the Gauntlet
20:14 < linkhyrule5> It's passing through a previously established whole
20:14 < linkhyrule5> *hole
20:14 < kappabeta> Argus-related question: What *is* the Technocracy doing about this
20:14 < Endovior> It's big, and it's calibrated against bigness, and the 'holes' are only holes in that you are getting through them with small, subtle, low-power effects.
20:15 < linkhyrule5> Like, look, things that have lots of mana include: the fact that water is wet, the fact that 2+2=4 (which is infinite, in fact), and /the fact that the spell was cast as well/.
20:15 < linkhyrule5> Casting a spell is artificially making something more real, it's not... like, a power level.
20:15 < Endovior> They're sending a team. She'll be taken into custody, and will probably be very safe from vampires.
20:15 * Teceler has just caught up on the actual thread, and would like to note that Tyche is rather frustrated (Thorn is not registering an opinion)
20:15 < kappabeta> Will she be safe from the Technocracy
20:15 < kappabeta> somehow I doubt it
20:15 < Endovior> No comment.
20:15 < linkhyrule5> You can approximate it as powerlevel for the sake of /direct clashes/, but this isn't a direct clash, it's going around things.
20:16 -!- Eva has quit
20:16 < kappabeta> what do you mean, no comment XD
20:16 < Endovior> My point is that your method of going around things only works for minimal-effect stuffs, and there's not a combination you can get that involves hitting it with enough force to break stuff behind the gauntlet while still getting through the gauntlet.
20:17 < linkhyrule5> Sure you can.
20:17 < linkhyrule5> If you're not using brute force, but sideways Sidereal shenanigans.
20:17 < linkhyrule5> This isn't ... mana is orthogonal to brute force unless you're actively using it as a hammer
20:17 < linkhyrule5> It's kind of like "loadsadice"
20:17 < Endovior> Mostly because magic does not, in fact, work exactly the same in the Entelechy and in Darkness, and the effects you are using are translating somehow at some point.
20:17 < linkhyrule5> Er... no, it's.. not.
20:18 < linkhyrule5> That's the entire reason Entelechy doesn't work in other worlds very well.
20:18 < linkhyrule5> If it were /translating/ the world would be overrun by primordial dragons by now
20:18 < linkhyrule5> Entelechy works in other worlds poorly because it has to contort itself into existenec
20:18 < Endovior> ...probably the wrong word, sorry
20:19 < Teceler> okay, I think the pm worked this time
20:19 < linkhyrule5> Like, this is not a World of Darkness effect at any point in the line
20:19 < kappabeta> pm worked!
20:19 < Teceler> yay for working pm
20:19 < linkhyrule5> The World of Darkness is being /overridden/ by Entelechy's magic, and the reason that is the case is why cross-Truth magic costs so ludicrously much
20:19 < Endovior> Uh, I meant that WoD magic, specifically, is very good at dealing with foreign paradigms, and a 'more power' thing, even under a foreign paradigm, is still more recognizable as such
20:19 < linkhyrule5> But it's not more power, that's what I'm saying.
20:20 < Teceler> pretend the blank one never happened
20:20 < linkhyrule5> Nevermind that Mage is more aboutdiffereing versions of the same world and every paradigm still has to explain things like "why water is wet"
20:21 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
20:22 < linkhyrule5> *sigh*
20:22 < linkhyrule5> Right, so, ME is going to do this the wonky way.
20:22 -!- Eva is now known as Lioncourt
20:22 < Endovior> ...okay, so I'm admittedly not perfectly following the metaphor in question
20:22 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
20:22 < linkhyrule5> The existing scry, that got through, but blocked by the Technocracy.
20:23 < Eva> (Bwahahah)
20:23 < Lioncourt> (I live)
20:23 < linkhyrule5> That one is retroactively fed a drip of mana over the course of the next thousand yers.
20:23 < Endovior> But I'm going to register the opinion that, just like you can't beat the Entelechy with power in the Entelechy, you can't overpower the Gauntlet within the WoD using feasible amounts of power.
20:23 < linkhyrule5> Right.
20:24 < linkhyrule5> But I'm /not challenging the Gauntlet/
20:24 < linkhyrule5> This an existing question that got through.
20:24 < linkhyrule5> And now I'm using a pre-existing scry that already got through.
20:24 < Endovior> Even the existing stuff that got through was dicey.
20:25 < kappabeta> I'm still interested in the content of the "no comment" on what the Technocracy is doing with inhiding
20:25 < linkhyrule5> Probably converting her.
20:25 < linkhyrule5> Ideally "into a Technocrat".
20:25 < Endovior> If it helps, their method of attack is less countering your scry, and more making it harder for you to be subtle.
20:25 < linkhyrule5> Yes, but I'm still not doing anything not-subtle
20:26 < linkhyrule5> because mana is still only sometimes a measure of raw power
20:26 < linkhyrule5> Like, okay
20:26 < linkhyrule5> WoD metaphor.
20:26 < linkhyrule5> Casting a spell.
20:26 < Teceler> Endovior, if a object is thrown through a gate that goes through the Gauntlet, what happens?
20:26 < linkhyrule5> (Arete + Sphere) + (some Stat + some Ability) free successes
20:26 < linkhyrule5> This isn't lilke having a super high sphere or something.
20:26 < Endovior> Damage to the object
20:27 < linkhyrule5> This is like having a ludicrously high Int.
20:27 < Endovior> And the caster
20:27 < kappabeta> Okay, so if Esthfora finds out that bad things are happening to inhiding (and Esthfora's information-gathering doesn't work based on *causal mechanisms*, so I don't think it hits the Gauntlet at all) and Leaf sends Mark to the rescue, what is likely to occur?
20:27 < Teceler> how severe damage? --ah
20:27 < Endovior> Mark is probably killed by the Gauntlet, absent more invincibility than I think he has.
20:28 < kappabeta> Yes, and then he comes back as a daeva and tries again more invincibly.
20:28 < Endovior> Then he probably can get in, but attempting to get out result in a failure and a (harmless) splat, instead of a success and a splat.
20:29 < kappabeta> Okay. But he won't be trying to get out at first, because he will instead be trying to rescue inhiding from anything nearby that looks like she needs rescuing from it.
20:30 < Endovior> Noted. That's fine.
20:30 < kappabeta> well, what will he be rescuing her from?
20:31 < Endovior> Good question.
20:31 < Endovior> Care to try it?
20:31 < kappabeta> I'm pretty sure it is going to end up happening. But first I need to know broadly what is going on with inhiding/what she's in for absent rescuers
20:31 < kappabeta> to get a sense of what Esthfora's going to say on the matter
20:32 -!- Kel has quit
20:32 < kappabeta> her statement won't be *detailed* exactly but it will be, like, tonally accurate
20:32 < Endovior> She is, very shorlty, going to be asleep in a paramilitary compound, surrounded by well-armed guards.
20:32 < kappabeta> Is she currently being transported to same?
20:32 < Endovior> yes
20:33 < kappabeta> And what are the broad intentions of her new captors towards her? Like, on a scale from "kind and benevolent" through "dubiously benign" to "evil"
20:34 -!- Lioncourt has quit
20:34 < Endovior> Dubious. Not evil, but not motivated by anything like 'her safety, happiness, or convenience'.
20:34 < kappabeta> "We have 'inhiding' in custody. The situation should now be considered fully resolved." <-- *leaf rageshriek*
20:36 < kappabeta> Hmm okay so I'm trying to get a sense of whether or not she *should be rescued* from them
20:36 < kappabeta> like, in leaf's/mark's estimation, if they had all relevant information, which they don't, but they have a magic rainbow excellent guesser goddess advising them
20:36 < linkhyrule5> Endovior - It is possible for /Mages/ caught outside the Gauntlet to scry through it, yes? ME is going to go see how they do it.
20:37 < Teceler> Thorn is not actually being sarcastic. Much.
20:37 < Endovior> Note: esthfora, who seems involved at this point, can probably tell that inhiding did not, in fact, post that last remark
20:38 < Eva> Also, she suddenly stopped making spelling errors.
20:38 < kappabeta> ahaha i may have jumped the gun a little bit there
20:38 < kappabeta> but yes
20:38 < kappabeta> I hope you do not mind esthfora's edit
20:38 < kappabeta> she did not actually change any text
20:38 < linkhyrule5> Actually, I'm not sure if they can even /do/ that
20:38 < kappabeta> she just put LIES as the edit reason
20:39 < Endovior> Mostly, very subtly, very softly, very carefully.
20:39 < linkhyrule5> MotherStarlight turned on identity checking, remember?
20:39 < kappabeta> Well, inhiding's a guest
20:39 < Endovior> And mostly, they picked up her cellphone and made a post
20:39 < linkhyrule5> It's /not her/, so
20:39 < Endovior> Because she's on a website, and such
20:39 < linkhyrule5> I guess.
20:39 < Endovior> But yeah, the forum's guardians are capable of seeing through that kind of shenanigans.
20:39 < Teceler> wellup, that is translating as 'suspiciously cheerful and otherwise off', and then esthfora
20:40 < Eva> The forum is magic, but eh, timey-wimey-gauntlet-wauntlet
20:40 < linkhyrule5> Anyway, Endovior - ME looks to see how Mages caught outside the Gauntlet scry through it
20:40 < linkhyrule5> (because that is definitely a thing, DSci does it with very little trouble)
20:41 < Endovior> Yep. You brush up on their methods. The fact that there are a bunch of places that were once within the WoD that are now not is a vulnerability. You could do so comparatively easily from one of them.
20:42 < kappabeta> I feel like it is now very time-sensitive that I get an understanding of what inhiding is in for here
20:42 < Endovior> Alternatively, you have a better understanding of what methods are less likely to draw attention.
20:42 < Endovior> ME already found out, incidentally, some time ago, that the most likely consequence of inhiding being taken by the Technocracy was involuntary mental alterations.
20:43 < Endovior> He knows that IC
20:43 < linkhyrule5> Ah, I'll point that out
20:43 < kappabeta> ahahahdfjshdjfh yes well okay tehn
20:43 < kappabeta> as soon as leaf and mark find that out, rescue goes through
20:43 < linkhyrule5> Is this of the "mindwipe" brand, or of the "you are now a loyal Technocrat" brand?
20:43 < Endovior> Yes
20:44 < kappabeta> dfasdfag yep ok then
20:44 < kappabeta> rescue shall occur
20:44 < linkhyrule5> ... why woudd they wipe her mmind if she was also being a loyal technocrat?
20:44 < Teceler> so she didn't remember this mess?
20:44 < Endovior> Cutting old associations, part of the standard package
20:44 < linkhyrule5> ...
20:44 < Endovior> Doubly so since her old assocations are vampiric thralls
20:44 < linkhyrule5> I see.
20:45 < Endovior> It's in no way uncommon, for people recruited from outside the usual orgs
20:45 < Endovior> Not, like, full amnesia, just "you aren't aprticularly emotionally connected with anyone that you used to know anymore"
20:46 < linkhyrule5> ...
20:46 < linkhyrule5> So Chelsea'd.
20:46 < Endovior> Sure
20:46 < Endovior> That's part of what
20:46 < Endovior> "conditioning" imples
20:46 < Endovior> *impies
20:46 < Endovior> *implys :P
20:47 < Endovior> wow
20:47 < linkhyrule5> yeah, so.
20:47 < linkhyrule5> Moving on with Gauntlet shenanigans...
20:47 < Endovior> I need to get some caffiene, excuse
20:47 < linkhyrule5> when you're back, then.
20:47 < Teceler> Tyche is on board with any rescue efforts happening here if she can be helpful. Thorn would like to know what the heck but the analogy she is drawing to the Foundation is not helping the Technocracy given how that went
20:48 < Teceler> (Tyche at least will be saying that ic when the relevant information is revealed)
20:48 < Teceler> (she probably cannot be helpful, but, hey)
20:48 < Teceler> (that is the status update on that)
20:49 < Eva> Apparently "relevant" pings me.
20:49 < kappabeta> haha
20:49 < Teceler> ...that is odd
20:49 < Endovior> heh
20:49 < Teceler> oh
20:49 < Endovior> You're always relevant
20:49 < Eva> "relEVAnt" yep.
20:49 < linkhyrule5> loool
20:49 < Teceler> I wonder if you could convince you client the ping should be case-sensitive
20:50 < Teceler> *your client
20:51 < Endovior> linkhyrule5 - So... were you going to post IC about the likely consequences of inhiding being in Technocratic custody?
20:51 < linkhyrule5> check your PMs
20:51 < linkhyrule5> Also I'm probably sending Leaf a bunch of the stuff I learned about the WoD in pdf form
20:51 < Endovior> Ah, gotcha
20:52 < Endovior> ...
20:53 < linkhyrule5> So... hm.
20:53 < linkhyrule5> What all would Leaf want to know about the WoD/
20:53 < linkhyrule5> given what ME knows?
20:53 < linkhyrule5> ME thinks much faser than I do.
20:53 < linkhyrule5> >.>
20:53 < kappabeta> I'm not even sure I know what ME knows XD
20:54 < linkhyrule5> I mean, what sorts of thing would Mark want to know?
20:54 < kappabeta> hmm.
20:54 < kappabeta> He wants all available data on the people he's rescuing the girl from, most prominently
20:55 < linkhyrule5> Have the Mage spalt.
20:55 < linkhyrule5> well, no
20:55 < linkhyrule5> Have the wiki page on the Mage splat
20:55 < linkhyrule5> but
20:56 < kappabeta> Mage splat??
20:56 < linkhyrule5> "Splat" - a given type-of-player
20:56 < linkhyrule5> Werewolf is a splat, Vampire is a splat, Mage is a splat
20:56 < kappabeta> aha
20:56 < Endovior> http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Mage:_The_Ascension
20:57 < linkhyrule5> By the way, what's the year on Barrayar?
20:57 < kappabeta> 2995
20:57 < linkhyrule5> I just realized that ME knows some vague stuff about Miles and Mark and promised to tell him
20:57 < kappabeta> heh
20:58 < kappabeta> man, Cordelia's going to be casting so damn many gates here XD
20:59 < kappabeta> luckily she has the MP to blow on it
21:01 < kappabeta> Cordelia gates Mark to WoD, Mark explodes, Cordelia gates Mark back into her demiplane from whichever daeva realm he ended up in, Cordelia gates Mark to Raezenoth to pick up a full suite of blessings, Cordelia gates Mark directly to rescuee
21:02 < Endovior> Noted
21:02 < Endovior> Is this a thing that's happening in a glowy format, or...?
21:03 < kappabeta> Well, I think that's up to you, since you're running the main antagonist *and* the escort quest object
21:03 < kappabeta> I haven't glowficced any of the leadup yet
21:03 < Endovior> I am available to do things in glowy formats.
21:03 < Endovior> If there is interest
21:04 < kappabeta> I'd certainly like to play out Mark Rescues This One Girl From Everything
21:04 < kappabeta> they're even the same age, technically!
21:04 < kappabeta> he looks six years older though
21:04 < kappabeta> ~cloning~
21:05 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: Is the question about where it came from what scrying is turning up or what is in the files?
21:06 < linkhyrule5> Both, now that I think of it
21:06 < linkhyrule5> So, Endovior: ME has just created a scry that has had the little "caster location" and "caster identity" tags changed to be "some ex-WoD place" and "some random rock", respectively
21:06 < linkhyrule5> What happens?
21:07 < Teceler> also, while I'm thinking about it, I think this is a Project Ozma base, unless you have a more interesting idea. Possible the one in the Gatecrashing book, if you've read it?
21:09 < linkhyrule5> Nope
21:09 < linkhyrule5> I've read the core
21:09 < linkhyrule5> and that one thing with the AI in the recursive box
21:09 < linkhyrule5> that uh, didn't work
21:09 < linkhyrule5> :P
21:10 < Teceler> I don't think I recognize what you're talking about
21:10 < Teceler> but okay
21:10 < kappabeta> Endovior, do you want to glowfic Mark Rescues This One Girl
21:10 < Endovior> She's in a black helicopter, flying north. The helicopter is invisible and silent. She has a black bag over her head, and is handcuffed, and drugged. There are seven well-armed individuals, all heavily augmented.
21:10 < Endovior> Yes
21:11 < linkhyrule5> Blargh.
21:11 < linkhyrule5> Well, at least it worked. ME is pleased.
21:11 < linkhyrule5> Um. Is a live feed going to cross the explosion line?
21:12 < Endovior> Yes. You can, however, get pictures reliably enough, if you take no more than one every few seconds.
21:13 < Endovior> In fact, you can automate something approximating a 'live feed' like that.
21:13 < linkhyrule5> Hm.
21:13 < linkhyrule5> Actually.
21:13 < linkhyrule5> What happens if he grabs like, ten different rocks
21:13 < linkhyrule5> and does ten different scrys?
21:13 < linkhyrule5> And staggers them?
21:14 < kappabeta> Mark's first trip in involved him exploding in the shed they took her from, and his blown-up corpse is probably still there. His *second* trip in, about a minute and a half later, gates him directly into the helicopter. He fails to explode, because he is an angel now. (He did not take the time to give himself wings.)
21:14 < kappabeta> The most sensible kickoff point for the glowfic of this is probably gate #2.
21:14 < Endovior> That's approximately what you have to do to reliably get that kind of fidelity. If it's the same source pinging so often, or the same target being pinged, there is more interference.
21:14 < Endovior> You get frame drops.
21:15 < Endovior> Think trying to watch an HD livestream over a low-speed connection.
21:16 < linkhyrule5> Different sources and targets that have been shifted by a few feet each time?
21:16 < Endovior> And yeah, that sounds reasonable
21:16 < Endovior> Yep
21:17 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: replied. Do you want me to grab to the relevant material?
21:17 < kappabeta> do you have a relevant DW account, Endovior?
21:17 < kappabeta> and do you want to firstpost the unsuspecting helicopter contents?
21:17 < Teceler> *grab you
21:17 < linkhyrule5> That's what I'm asking - if he uses sources that are like, t hundred miles apart, and checks places that are a few feet apart, can he increase the speed?
21:17 < Endovior> I will make one
21:17 < linkhyrule5> I'd like to get up to 10fps at least.
21:17 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - which relevant material?
21:17 < kappabeta> ...hang on, from IC: "The local paradigm will call memetics magic, likely, but it will also probably insist that Mark be vulnerable to them even if some aspect of his invulnerability would otherwise prevent that."
21:18 < Endovior> Exponential increase of *effort* per increment of quality.
21:18 < Endovior> It's a pain to do
21:18 < kappabeta> Mark's mental invulnerability is Esthfora-backed
21:18 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: for the Project Ozma site I'm thinking this might be.
21:18 < linkhyrule5> Esthfora is likely to counter that, but that's up to Endovior
21:19 < linkhyrule5> Effort is something ME has to spare. Infomorph with no hard limit on thought speed; the only reason he's not running at one clock per Planck time is that it'd be /boring/ and make it impossible for a human to interact with other humans
21:19 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - that'd be great, then, thanks
21:19 < linkhyrule5> What do you mean by "inversion?"
21:19 < Endovior> What are you asking?
21:20 < Teceler> like someone tried to dramatically change it on a conceptual level and it didn't quite take, but did /something/
21:21 < linkhyrule5> Endovior - Mostly just some vague video feed. ME doesn't want to miss it if something abrupt happens; 0.5 fps is just low enough to make him feel nervous, because it's super easy for something - like, an object falls out of someone's pocket - to slip through the cracks.
21:21 < linkhyrule5> ME does not like not knowing important things.
21:21 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - Ahhh.
21:21 < Endovior> Noted.
21:21 < Teceler> yeah, that thing
21:22 < Endovior> You have to spend a bunch of power on micromanaging the relevant 'extra actions', but if you're willing to burn stars on it, you can get 10 fps.
21:22 < linkhyrule5> er?
21:22 < linkhyrule5> That's... not really how that works?
21:22 < linkhyrule5> He just... thinks faster.
21:22 < linkhyrule5> Each scry costs the same...
21:22 < Endovior> Er... the stuff you did before to have more time to do things per time?
21:22 < Endovior> Like with the demons?
21:23 < linkhyrule5> Oh, that thing, that thing is cheap by his standards
21:23 < linkhyrule5> The stuff he burnt stars for was the perfect attacks
21:23 < Endovior> You basically have to be threading lots of spells at once.
21:23 < Endovior> Ah
21:23 < linkhyrule5> and the gods-darn-it tell me what- you are stuff
21:23 < linkhyrule5> and the -give-me-a-piece-I-can-study stuff
21:23 < linkhyrule5> Just boosting himself is kind of a thing he does by existing
21:24 < Endovior> Mostly, you're running into exponential problems, and patching together a feed from a lot of failed attempts, and the more you make, the higher the failure rate gets.
21:24 < linkhyrule5> I mean, that sort of thing he can automate to an extent
21:24 < linkhyrule5> but yeah, okay
21:24 < linkhyrule5> Big room full of occasionally exploding Aisilians.
21:24 < linkhyrule5> Or frequently exploding Aisilians.
21:25 < linkhyrule5> At this point he is actually going to make his bodies invulnerable, actually, because he's tired of cleaning up the blood.
21:25 < Endovior> Reasonable
21:25 < Teceler> XD
21:26 < linkhyrule5> So yeah, I'm just going to say that ME can read the glowfic, is that all right with you two?
21:26 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta?
21:26 < kappabeta> yeah, fine by me
21:26 < kappabeta> I should go to bed approximately nowish
21:26 < linkhyrule5> I mean he won't get /thoughts/ because he has a sense of privacy, but
21:26 < linkhyrule5> loool
21:26 < linkhyrule5> have fun with that
21:27 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - is this a magic "conceptual change", or just "recoded it from the ground up" thing?
21:27 < Teceler> I'm not sure, actually
21:27 < kappabeta> Mark is coming in equipped with unpracticed but high-powered Facet arcany, QDS magic and an untouched MP of 182, and a new-as-of-the-last-thirty-seconds daeva-angel status.
21:27 < kappabeta> This should be Interesting.
21:27 < Endovior> noted
21:28 < kappabeta> Also, you know, being Mark Vorkosigan. And all of Raezenoth's blessings.
21:28 < linkhyrule5> Endovior - are you fine with that?
21:28 < Endovior> Sure
21:28 < linkhyrule5> I kind of assumed you were listening, which is why I calledo ut kappa expclitly
21:28 < linkhyrule5> kk
21:28 < kappabeta> And Esthfora-backed mental invulnerability.
21:28 < kappabeta> For that matter he probably took the time to grab a stunner.
21:29 < Endovior> Since you're doing prepwork, I assume you'd like to set the scene?
21:29 < linkhyrule5> On a side note, Endovior - the CV plot is partially waiting on Orz right now, I believe?
21:29 < linkhyrule5> check Orz's PMs?
21:29 < kappabeta> set the scene as in make the first post? I am legendarily terrible at doing that
21:29 < Endovior> Possibly, but Orz foisted it off on Keeper
21:30 < Endovior> Noted
21:30 < kappabeta> provide me a helicopter full of unsuspecting goons and I will provide you a suddenly appearing Mark
21:30 < Endovior> Since she seems more likely to be able to be relevantly useful in a short span of time.
21:30 < kappabeta> Orz foisted something off on the keeper?
21:30 < Endovior> Yes
21:31 < Endovior> Something about Leaf ragescreaming would be a good place to start, I think, but I'll have a helicopter for you in a bit
21:31 < linkhyrule5> SO is he ignoring his PMs IC?
21:31 < Endovior> ...what?
21:31 < linkhyrule5> I sent Orz a PM
21:31 < linkhyrule5> awhile back
21:31 < linkhyrule5> that you never replied too...
21:31 < Endovior> Sorry, no; that was an 'I missed something OOC in the shuffle', and now am doing other stuff OOC.
21:32 < Endovior> Or perhaps time shenanigans.
21:32 < Endovior> Whatever
21:32 < kappabeta> oh um, ME said "Mark" in the PM thread
21:32 < kappabeta> is that an IC knows-too-much slipup or an OOC one
21:34 < linkhyrule5> The attachment is addressed at Mark
21:34 < linkhyrule5> I don't think he ever actualy /said/ Mark?
21:34 < kappabeta> " but it will also probably insist that Mark be vulnerable to them even if some aspect of his invulnerability would otherwise prevent that."
21:34 < linkhyrule5> ...
21:34 < linkhyrule5> It /was/ an OOC slipup.
21:34 < linkhyrule5> I'm not sure if I should make it an IC slipup or not.
21:34 < kappabeta> ahahahahahahaha
21:34 < linkhyrule5> ... He probably wouldn't make that sort of mistake, he was a little rushed but not /that/ rushed...
21:35 < linkhyrule5> Mm. Wait, no, I already sent that other PM saying he didn't learn their names, and he definitely wouldn't lie about that
21:35 < linkhyrule5> so no, that was OOC.
21:36 < kappabeta> okay
21:36 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - so yeah, was that a Prometheans-experimenting shadow?
21:36 < Endovior> So, title-wise... is "Mark Rescues This One Girl" what we're going with?
21:37 < Teceler> that shadow is the fault of the Prometheans, yes
21:37 < kappabeta> hahahaha
21:37 < Teceler> he will find interesting correlations between that and the common elements of the other strains if he looks at those
21:37 < kappabeta> We can *probably* come up with a better title than that, but I might not be able to because I need to go to bed in like fifteen minutes. Ago.
21:38 < linkhyrule5> lol
21:38 < Endovior> Noted. We can postpone until tomorrow if you'd prefer.
21:38 < Endovior> IC, the events are still happening approximately simultaneously.
21:38 < Endovior> Give me a time, I'll be on
21:39 < Endovior> (it will, not incidentally, give me the time to polish up an opening post)
21:39 < linkhyrule5> ... so, Teceler, I just realized something.
21:39 < linkhyrule5> >.>
21:39 < kappabeta> I usually come online around 8-9 in the morning, EST. Whenever you're on after that is fine by me.
21:39 < Teceler> what?
21:40 < linkhyrule5> Entelechy magic is bad at crossing Truths.
21:40 < kappabeta> Polish away.
21:40 < Endovior> Noted. See you then.
21:40 < linkhyrule5> EP is explicitly in the same Truth as eveyrone else.
21:40 < linkhyrule5> I have a few ideas to keep Entelechy still reasonably contained.
21:41 < Teceler> go on
21:41 < linkhyrule5> Biggest ones: Entelechy magic is about _insight into your world_. If your world doesn't really like cross-world-cluster stuff, there could be a mana cost there
21:42 < Teceler> I'm thinking some combination of less friendly local physics and not much convenient matter to burn to start with
21:42 < linkhyrule5> Entelechy magic /doesn't llike being learned/. It takes a very, very long time for people to learn some very simple things. Long enough that we can justify the Prometheans being relative novices for quite a while in-setting
21:43 < linkhyrule5> ... that was amy third one, yes.
21:43 < linkhyrule5> :P
21:43 < Teceler> and possibly Someone put up some Ridiculous Wards after the virus turned up to stop it from going further / stop anything else from getting in
21:43 < linkhyrule5> Maybe bring in the ETs again?
21:44 < Teceler> which are really hard to dismantle even with the command codes by design, but mostly only mess with Entelechy magic
21:44 < Teceler> maybe
21:44 < linkhyrule5> They don't like us /because/ the virus reads human-ish (because it was designed by humans, jsut not local ones), so they learned local magic, put up Wards, and then threw Titans at us?
21:44 -!- kappabeta has quit
21:44 < Teceler> ahahaha
21:45 < Teceler> so someone got hit with it first, some of them survived and analyzed the virus, and then wound up dumping a metric ton of it in the maximally inconvenient spot for humanity, is that what you're saying?
21:46 < Teceler> (and also scattered it across the rest of the galaxy/universe because they were angry at everyone)
21:47 < linkhyrule5> Basically!
21:47 < Teceler> and Possibly They Are Still Around dun dun dun
21:48 < linkhyrule5> That's probably the ultimate excuse
21:48 < linkhyrule5> The Prometheans learn magic!
21:48 < linkhyrule5> Other things notice!
21:48 < linkhyrule5> The Prometheans aren ow fighting Other Things with all their spare time!
21:48 < linkhyrule5> Luckily it turns out that gains from intellgience ar logistic so it's not /instant loss/, but
21:49 < Teceler> a lot of their free time, at least, there is at least one canon example of a Promethean Doing Things
21:49 < Teceler> but yeah
21:49 < Teceler> they are Busy
21:50 < Teceler> okay, I'm going to say that for hilarity reasons, one of the side effects of the way the wards are set up is that if ME tries to take a sample it might succeed or might not (depending on how much power he puts in) but will set off a bunch of containment failure alarms
21:50 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
21:51 < Teceler> unless you object
21:51 < linkhyrule5> Well, I was also thinking about "what happens when ME starts teaching them more generalized Entelechy magic than can be extrapolated from the virus"
21:51 < linkhyrule5> which is going to give the Prometheans a power boost
21:51 < Teceler> ah
21:52 < Teceler> the Other Things might not have noticed now, but might then, is that what you mean?
21:52 < linkhyrule5> but we /can/ say "There is no such thing and the Prometheans are just interested because Fellow Entelech yScholar"
21:52 < linkhyrule5> yeah
21:53 < Eva> Oh hey Leaf and/or Andrew
21:54 < Endovior> You're about 10 minutes late
21:54 < Eva> Drat.
21:54 < Endovior> He is asleep until tomorrow, at which point we will glowfic "Mark Rescues This One Girl"
21:55 < Eva> Yes, I saw in the logs about the rescue
21:55 < Eva> must have missed his sign-off
21:57 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: How closely was ME investigating the Fall when he did his general world-scry of Eclipse?
22:06 < linkhyrule5> ... so I hadn't plotted that out yet
22:06 < linkhyrule5> but "a lot", honestly
22:06 < linkhyrule5> I mean it's the end of the world and all :P
22:06 < Teceler> ah
22:07 < Teceler> well, it occurred to me that he might have noticed Thorn in that
22:08 < Teceler> 'Thorn' is either her original last name or the last name of her cover
22:10 < linkhyrule5> I mean, he was going through Thorn, so
22:10 < linkhyrule5> on the one hand, he's more likley to see Thorn-related things
22:10 < linkhyrule5> on the other hand, he's trying to avoid invadding her privacy?
22:10 < linkhyrule5> It's basically up to you so
22:11 < linkhyrule5> Also, when ME takes a sample he's just going to be reading the virus closely enough to be infected
22:12 < Teceler> it was kind of public, she kind of got publicly pulled up on trial (not quite as a scrapegoat, more as a distraction?) before Firewall disappeared her. So.
22:12 < linkhyrule5> (except wards)
22:12 < linkhyrule5> Ah
22:12 < linkhyrule5> Then he probably couldn't avoid learning about it.
22:12 < Teceler> It kind of comes down to 'what would be more interesting' I guess-- ah
22:12 < linkhyrule5> ... He may mention this out of general hoensty
22:12 < linkhyrule5> Would Thorn like some more trauma?
22:12 < linkhyrule5> :V
22:12 < Teceler> Thorn: Augh
22:12 < linkhyrule5> poor Thorn
22:13 < linkhyrule5> Oh does Thorn know that Tyche set ME on the exsurgent virus yet?
22:13 < Teceler> Thorn is currently under very strict instructions to drop what she's doing and go have therapy with her muse if her stress goes up much at all.
22:14 < Teceler> probably, I think Tyche got that cleared, so if she's back on the forum she's probably heard
22:14 < Kel> Poor Thorn!
22:14 < linkhyrule5> looool
22:14 < linkhyrule5> what was her response?
22:14 < Teceler> to which thing?
22:14 < Teceler> (also, Thorn kind of appreciates the sympathy and kind of wants to go hide from all the attention)
22:16 < linkhyrule5> looool
22:16 < linkhyrule5> the extradimensional exsurgent research thing
22:16 < linkhyrule5> Also, replied
22:16 < Teceler> she is concerned that ME will get infected and horrible things will happen to his world as a result
22:16 < linkhyrule5> THere totally are viruses taht can create fire in ENtelechy, fyi.
22:17 < linkhyrule5> Horrible things have already happened to his world! This would not be the first :P
22:17 < linkhyrule5> (yes I know she doesn't know that IC but)
22:17 < Teceler> /more/ horrible things
22:17 < linkhyrule5> Also, now I'm imagining a fire-breathing virus dragon.
22:17 < Teceler> XD
22:17 < linkhyrule5> Like, a dragon thesize of a cell that breathes fire.
22:17 < Teceler> ...heee
22:17 < linkhyrule5> Some crazy mage probably did this!
22:18 < Teceler> given Entelechy, yeah, probably
22:19 < Teceler> sent you the information
22:20 < linkhyrule5> kk, thanks
22:20 < linkhyrule5> er
22:20 < linkhyrule5> how?
22:20 < Teceler> our existing ooc pm conversation
22:21 < linkhyrule5> ah, kay
22:22 < Teceler> ...now I have to work out how it is trying to escape, thanks
22:23 < Endovior> For reference; you're getting that reply from Orz soon-ish
22:24 < Teceler> also you might want to fix that typo before I reply
22:24 < Eva> ""All of them, everywhere? No late sunsets, or cancelled or combined days, or repeated days, or weeks that pass at different rates in different locations? At all? That sounds... very helpful to live with."
22:24 < Eva> ^^ Exhibit A: Dotted Lines' World
22:24 < Endovior> And I suppose Eva's getting in on the Orz-chat similarly soon-ish?
22:25 < Eva> Who's being added to the Orz-chat? What's the Orz-chat for?
22:25 < Teceler> I'm pretty sure that's not Exhibit A. Maybe like, C, or something.
22:25 < Eva> Hmm, true.
22:25 < Endovior> Something about Lioncourt learning Orz's method of dimensional travel?
22:25 < Eva> Ah, right!
22:25 < Endovior> (at seriously nontrivial peril)
22:26 < Endovior> (like, all the peril)
22:26 < Teceler> (previous exhibits include that thing about 'It only triggers if you're kidnapped by someone from a /different/ world, right')
22:26 < Eva> She is probably immortal enough to deal with that so long as she has some form of mind shielding.
22:27 < Endovior> Doesn't actually help. Orz's method is basically like intentionally committing a particularly horrifying sort of suicide, and incidentally becoming a different person somewhere else afterwards.
22:27 < Kel> (it was a legitimate concern though!)
22:27 < Endovior> You're basically voiding your own mental defences to intentionally inflict horrible trauma on yourself.
22:27 < Endovior> Orz is the kind of mind that can get away with that kind of thing.
22:27 < Teceler> (yeah, it's just a really horrific concern to have to have)
22:27 < Eva> (Also that thing where the standard procedure for comforting a panicking friend includes 'remove the local listening devices.')
22:28 < Teceler> (also that one)
22:28 < Eva> "is basically like intentionally committing a particularly horrifying sort of suicide, and incidentally becoming a different person somewhere else afterwards."
22:28 < Kel> (It does actually often help though! For some reason)
22:29 < Endovior> More to the point, given the principles of Mnemos-making (as I understand them), you'd have to do so over and over again to learn it.
22:29 < Eva> Yes.
22:29 < Teceler> (no, really? :P)
22:29 < Eva> Also, that is nasty.
22:29 < Kel> (yeah! who'dve guessed?)
22:30 * MotherStarlight has quit (Connection reset by peer)
22:30 < Eva> (The impression I get)
22:30 < linkhyrule5> loool
22:30 < Teceler> ...wellup
22:30 < Eva> (Is that Kel's entire world is actively gaslighting everyone everywhere.)
22:30 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - which typo?
22:30 < Endovior> Using Orz's kind of reality warping requires being willing and able to do that kind of ego-modifications to yourself, and Orz has grown accustomed to it from *LONG* experience.
22:30 < Teceler> last line, 'toe'
22:30 < Endovior> But a novice would probably not handle it well.
22:31 < Kel> Gonna start trying to save logs incase MotherStarlight doesn't save it
22:31 < linkhyrule5> done
22:31 < Teceler> (Thorn will be messaging DL to reply to him & go 'I hope Tyche didn't alarm you' as soon as I get to that)
22:31 < Eva> Lioncourt has maybe a little better of a handle on that sort of thing than your average sentient, but she's definitely nowhere near a ME on that scale
22:31 < Endovior> Just the *thought* is hazardous on the level of the kind of mental attack that esthfora would normally scrub out.
22:32 < Eva> Lioncourt has native mental magic and significant training regarding mental discipline and thinking impossible thoughts.
22:32 < Eva> Even then, though, there's only so much the wetware can support.
22:33 < Eva> That in turn is somewhat reduced by the fact that she's not technically alive, but...
22:33 < Eva> I would expect that eating an Orz-thought would probably result in Lioncourt needing to take a week or a month off for R&R.
22:34 < linkhyrule5> It may be relevant that she's not moving herself
22:34 < Endovior> Orz doesn't mind sharing, but isn't good at measuring other people's boundaries and/or pain resistance.
22:34 < linkhyrule5> Or, ideally, using Orz's transport at all
22:34 < linkhyrule5> In fact, the original idea was Orz /making himself a tool/ for this purpose
22:34 < linkhyrule5> Picking a nearby Truth
22:34 < linkhyrule5> and then saying "Orz, move it there."
22:34 < Kel> (Eva, just DottedLines's world, and the main relevant problem is the SSP, which yes does try to control people's thoughts, actions, words, etc. via re-education. which yes, is awful)
22:34 < Endovior> I am even now explaining why that won't work.
22:34 < linkhyrule5> ANd Orz narrating as it works over the lies-to-children filter
22:35 < linkhyrule5> I'm not quite seeing why?
22:35 < Eva> That does not work, in the same way that telling a subordinate "go build me a ship" does not let you manifest a memnodyne of ship-building.
22:35 < linkhyrule5> Ah.
22:35 < linkhyrule5> Phooey.
22:35 < linkhyrule5> Mm...
22:35 -!- MotherStarlight has joined #backstage
22:35 < Endovior> Welcome back
22:36 < Kel> Hi!
22:36 < Teceler> welcome back
22:36 < linkhyrule5> Would Lioncourt be willing, in theory, to do something like that, if it didn't cost her /her/ sanity?
22:36 <~MotherStarlight> Did I miss anything?
22:36 < linkhyrule5> That is, would she be willing ot offer an alpha fork?
22:36 < linkhyrule5> QUite a bit, if you missed the vampire
22:36 < Teceler> depends on where precisely you dropped out, but some, yes
22:36 < Endovior> We've been chatting about Orz teaching Lioncourt its planeshifting powers.
22:36 <~MotherStarlight> Could someone paste me, for the logs?
22:36 < Eva> Lioncourt is exceedingly practical. Also, she has conveniently already-braindead humans in her reality.
22:36 < Endovior> yes
22:37 < Endovior> where?
22:37 < Eva> Were you asking me?
22:37 < Endovior> Mother Starlight wants logs pasted.
22:37 < Eva> Ah, ok.
22:38 < Endovior> Where would be most convenient to have them?
22:38 <~MotherStarlight> Last thing I saw was 22:28 < Teceler> (also that one)
22:38 < Endovior> Ah, that's a long time ago, before I saw you drop.
22:38 < Endovior> Hang on...
22:39 <~MotherStarlight> maybe in PM, I can splice manually.
22:39 < Endovior> kk
22:39 -!- PDV has joined #backstage
22:39 < Kel> Hi!
22:39 < PDV> Hi
22:41 < linkhyrule5> Eva - needs to be her for this plan
22:41 < PDV> plan?
22:42 < linkhyrule5> The idea is this: A copy of Eva - For that matter, a hypothetical copy of Eva, she has to be willing to go through with it for that to work though, so from her point of view it's going to be basically the same
22:42 < linkhyrule5> Learn Orz's thing. And, uh, tears herself to shreds. It is very tragic and we can play that out.
22:42 < Kel> Do you mean of Lioncourt?
22:42 < linkhyrule5> The Memnos is a conceptually contained object.
22:42 < Eva> Of Lioncourt.
22:42 < Endovior> HexChat doesn't want to let me copy the timestamps
22:42 < linkhyrule5> Er. Of LionCourt
22:42 < linkhyrule5> NOt Eva.
22:42 < linkhyrule5> That woudl be sad.
22:42 <~MotherStarlight> :/
22:42 < linkhyrule5> >.>
22:42 < Endovior> But I have the relevant bits
22:42 < linkhyrule5> The Memnos is a conceptually contained object.
22:43 * Eva does not want to be torn to shreds either.
22:43 < Endovior> And I'm not personally set to log properly, at the moment
22:43 < linkhyrule5> ME, if he's willing to put forward "actualy interfere" levels of power, can give the Memnos to Eva blind
22:43 < Eva> Linkhyrule5: Tears herself to shreds /how/, exactly?
22:43 < Endovior> Does anyone else have a better log?
22:43 < linkhyrule5> *Lioncourt
22:43 < Eva> Is this some metaphysical shredding thing?
22:43 < linkhyrule5> Yes.
22:43 < linkhyrule5> Your sense of identity gets torn to shreds.
22:43 < Endovior> It's the actual process of Orz's teleport thing
22:43 < Eva> How /exactly/ is it metaphysical oh I see.
22:43 < linkhyrule5> Well, it's wrose than that.
22:44 < linkhyrule5> You're changing yourself into a bunch of very different things
22:44 < Kel> I have a log from 20:51 "unless you object"
22:44 < linkhyrule5> and then putting yourself back together different
22:44 < Endovior> That's probably better than mine, if you have timestamps
22:44 < Endovior> Go for it
22:44 < PDV> So Lioncourt would ask for the ability to do Orz's teleport and receive exactly what she requested, but not what she *wanted*?
22:44 < linkhyrule5> Oh now
22:44 <~MotherStarlight> sure, PM me
22:44 < linkhyrule5> She'd have to /learn/ how to do this
22:44 < linkhyrule5> which means doing it a lot.
22:44 < linkhyrule5> >.>
22:44 < Eva> So it's basically like dissassembling yourself into your component atoms, moving to a different location, then reassembling yourself, all while concious
22:45 < linkhyrule5> Yeah.
22:45 < linkhyrule5> Except, yannow
22:45 < linkhyrule5> less atoms, more identity
22:45 < linkhyrule5> You are someone else for a while.
22:45 < linkhyrule5> POssibly forever.
22:45 < Eva> except that you're dissassembling yourself into different people
22:45 < linkhyrule5> something like that.
22:45 < Endovior> Actually, less so
22:45 < Endovior> It's like Star Trek teleportation, in the 'teleportation is death' paradigm
22:45 <~MotherStarlight> "I'm not Leaf, but I'm a Miles."?
22:45 < Eva> Ah, okay.
22:46 < Endovior> Only with bits of your identity and mind-concept instead of atoms, and you get put together inside out on the other side
22:46 < Eva> Can Orz do this to other people?
22:46 < Endovior> Even Orz generally prefers slower methods
22:46 < Endovior> Except in case of emergency.
22:46 < Endovior> And yes, it can
22:46 < Eva> ... wait, is this getting *Pulled*?
22:47 < Kel> (does anyone know how to export logs from a spreadsheet? Sorry, I'm not sure how to do it on this site)
22:47 < Eva> :3
22:47 < Eva> Anyway.
22:47 < Eva> If Orz can do it to other people... then... Hmm!
22:47 < linkhyrule5> Basically, the good news is t hat Lioncourt doesn't have to go through withi it.
22:47 < linkhyrule5> The bad news is, she can't know that.
22:48 < linkhyrule5> By the way, Ea
22:48 < linkhyrule5> *Eva
22:48 < linkhyrule5> If you gave Lioncourt a black-box teleporter
22:48 < linkhyrule5> could she make a Memnos out of that?
22:49 < Eva> Yes, and it would function within the limitations she thought the teleporter had.
22:49 < Eva> As well as the limitations it actually had.
22:50 < linkhyrule5> So...what if she didn't know that the black box was actually Orz?
22:50 < Eva> She would have to /use the teleporter./
22:50 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, but
22:50 < linkhyrule5> "Push button
22:50 < linkhyrule5> Effect happens"
22:50 < linkhyrule5> i the level of black-box I was thinking of here
22:51 < Eva> Hmm. Actually, on further thought, I retract my previous statement.
22:51 < Eva> Lioncourt actually has to know how the tool works to make a memnos of it.
22:51 < Eva> (UNLESS)
22:51 < Eva> (She can manifest a absolutely staggering level of willpower.)
22:51 < linkhyrule5> You really like that loophole :P
22:52 < linkhyrule5> Hm.
22:52 < linkhyrule5> Doable, but ME is not good at "staggering" across universes.
22:52 < PDV> So the version that took the vacation in Scadrial could just do it.
22:52 < linkhyrule5> The Scadrial version has a /Mantle/
22:52 < linkhyrule5> she can kind of do whatever she wants :P
22:53 < Eva> Yes, because she could ignore the internal workings of the black box. No, she doesn't.
22:53 < Eva> She does not have a Mantle.
22:53 < linkhyrule5> oh? I thought she had a Memnodyne-making Memnodyne?
22:53 < Eva> She has a willpower-making memnodyne.
22:53 < Eva> Which lets her manifest any memnos in one step.
22:54 <~MotherStarlight> which amounts to basically the same thing in practice, right?
22:54 < Teceler> gah
22:54 < Eva> In practice, that Isabella can do anything Humanity as a whole could.
22:54 < Teceler> Kel, the site hates me to day, it just posted a half-finished reply to Dottled Lines
22:54 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - am I asking hard questions again? >.>
22:54 < Teceler> *today
22:54 < linkhyrule5> oh
22:54 < Eva> She can compress a lifetime's work into a second.
22:54 < linkhyrule5> on a side note ,reply
22:55 < Eva> She is not omnipotent, just ludicrously efficient.
22:55 < Endovior> Noted. It takes more than that.
22:55 < Endovior> Orz is *old*.
22:55 < Kel> Teceler, should I pretend not to have received the PM?
22:55 <~MotherStarlight> (I still don't have the logs. Sorry to keep bugging y'all, but I'm worried if I leave it then *nobody* will have logs.)
22:55 < Endovior> Like, eons old.
22:56 < Teceler> Kel: yeah, I'll have a properly finished one for you soon, sorry
22:56 < Kel> (I have logs, but they are in a spreadsheet and I don't know how to export to this site)
22:56 < Teceler> just a moment, mine might be in vaguely the right format
22:56 < Eva> (Which I will admit makes her omnipotent for most casual purposes.)
22:56 < Endovior> It took it a *very* long time to develop and perfect its methods.
22:56 < Teceler> I thought someone got you a copy already
22:56 <~MotherStarlight> Thanks.
22:56 <~MotherStarlight> I don't think so.
22:56 < Eva> (But don't expect her to shove around planets or anything.)
22:56 < linkhyrule5> So we'er back to Lioncourt being willing and able to go th rough with learning things from Orz, and ME copying the resulting Memnos out of the future
22:57 < Kel> Teceler: maybe by then, DL will officially have gotten computer access. I think he is currently in a fuzzy time while being rescued, although I'm not sure.
22:57 < Eva> (at least, not until she knows about rockets)
22:58 < Eva> Even if Lioncourt is willing to go through learning from Orz...
22:58 < Eva> What comes out the other end will almost definitely not be her.
22:58 < Endovior> That's the primary concern behind this whole thing, yes
22:58 < Eva> And probably won't be able to have the Memnos.
22:58 < Eva> It's kind of necessary to be sane.
22:59 < linkhyrule5> Tch.
22:59 < Eva> However, there is an alternate possiblity
22:59 < Teceler> Kel: Depends on when they left, I think? Your call
22:59 < linkhyrule5> oh?
22:59 < Eva> Most of the issue is that Lioncourt transporting herself will destroy her personal identity.
23:00 < Eva> She needs to find someone else that she can transport.
23:00 < linkhyrule5> Transporting others might have the same problem, as I understand it
23:00 < linkhyrule5> Just understanding the procedure is a memetic attack, ME had to lies-to-children it
23:01 < Eva> She can likely handle the alien-concepts issue, it's the destroying and reforming yourself part that has an issue.
23:01 < Endovior> More or less, but with the added detriment that they won't understand what's been done to them afterwards.
23:01 < Eva> They don't have to understand: Lioncourt is the one who does.
23:01 < Eva> Lioncourt might destroy the mind of her volunteer, but she'll be relatively intact.
23:02 < Eva> (Unless she needs to destroy her own identity even to operate the method of transport?)
23:02 < Endovior> That doesn't seem feasible. Orz has to do it to itself to move someone else.
23:02 < Eva> I was afraid you might say that.
23:02 < Endovior> So unless you're able to improve on the process to make a 'banishment' type effect...
23:03 < Eva> Question: Why are we even relying on Orz when there is a perfectly decent Gate spell?
23:03 < Kel> Teceler: DL and Janice left (checks) yesterday at 8 PM, which was officially yesterday morning. But in RP, it's been a total of maybe 5 minutes since they went through the portal. I am not sure how to handle the time effect
23:03 < linkhyrule5> Because Captain Viridian's planet is what needs to be moved.
23:04 < linkhyrule5> Also, because we've been kind of working under the assumption that Vearth is in another Truth.
23:04 < Endovior> That said, Orz can probably teach you less hazardous things. Like, say, mental defence techniques, and how to decline to be erased by reality warpers.
23:04 < linkhyrule5> I love "decline to be Xed" is a thing now
23:04 < Eva> I must not have told you guys about the impossible-tools application of Memnodynes.
23:04 < Endovior> That kind of thing would make good 'baby steps' before trying to learn its fast-movement.
23:05 < Teceler> Kel: yeah, me neither. Do you want to fuzzy-time assume that he gets a computer or say that his reply when you get to that point icly occurred within a less odd timeframe?
23:05 < linkhyrule5> ... wait
23:05 < linkhyrule5> can Eva hit the entire planet with several million hypothetical Gate spells?
23:06 < Endovior> I have a fuzzy concept about the applicability of Memnodynes to do more than the base tool.
23:06 < Eva> Memnodynes let you use any number of the base tool in any combination, so long as you can actually visualize it in your head.
23:06 < Endovior> Also, for that matter, multitasking.
23:07 < Eva> Mortal mages are constrained by being unable to precisely visualize more than about a city's worth of space.
23:07 < Endovior> Orz is *unparallelled* at doing mental tasks simultaneously.
23:07 < Kel> Teceler: I think probably the second one? I think maybe I'll have him see and respond once IC he's reached a computer, but fudge the amount of time so that he didn't actually not see something in his inbox for several days? If that makes sense?
23:07 < Teceler> yeah, that's fine
23:07 < Teceler> and makes sense
23:07 < Eva> If Orz can teach unparallelled multitasking, Lioncourt can individually gate everyone off of Vearth.
23:08 < Endovior> That seems applicable to what Lioncourt does
23:08 < Kel> Okay great, thanks!
23:08 < Eva> If she's then given a year or so apparent-time to practice, she could then move the planet.
23:08 < Endovior> Wetware limitations kick in at some point; the method involves dividing your mind into arbitrary sub-agents, and Lioncourt runs on matter, not thought-space.
23:09 < Endovior> But it's still a vast potential improvement.
23:09 < Eva> Okay, so maybe she'd have to do it country-by-country.
23:09 < Eva> ... Oh dear.
23:09 < Eva> "Dividing your mind into arbitrary sub-agents" is not conducive to Lioncourt's mental health.
23:09 < Endovior> Noted
23:09 * linkhyrule5 is amused.
23:10 < Eva> (Because not all of her is her.)
23:10 < linkhyrule5> Here, another option: ME instantiates a copy of himself in Lioncourt's mindscape (which is cheaper than reality)
23:11 < linkhyrule5> Sets the vampire bit on fire while he's in there
23:11 < Endovior> Dealing with unwanted personality sub-fragments is also something Orz is good at.
23:11 < linkhyrule5> ^ or that
23:11 < Endovior> After all, it has to intentionally create a lot of them to do various important things.
23:11 < linkhyrule5> and then learns to make Memnos
23:11 < Eva> The first bit is invasive. The second bit is dangerous as all hell.
23:12 < Endovior> And yeah, that's a dangerous sort of mental technique to learn, especially as a Memnos.
23:12 < linkhyrule5> Things proceed from there, since ME can take learning Orz identity shenanigans while casting a spell of perfect identity
23:12 < Kel> Teceler: or maybe for fun we could declare the response to be /before/ Leaf's rescue discussion, for more limits on what he can say? if that would be okay with you? And then the reply could be sooner, since it would have retroactively happened before the present time (I think?).
23:12 < Endovior> Er, what?
23:12 < Eva> There's no clear distinction between Lioncourt and Moon in her person anymore. Also she's starting to become a composite person.
23:12 < linkhyrule5> "I am something ME would consider ME, every five seconds"
23:12 < Eva> Hey, wait a second. I just had a thought.
23:13 < Eva> Orz, you said you could teach Lioncourt to make subagents
23:13 < Endovior> For reference, plan is to glowfic "Mark Rescues This One Girl" tomorrow morning-ish
23:13 < Endovior> Yes
23:13 < Kel> Eee! I am excited about this glowfic!
23:13 < Eva> Is that restricted to making them inside your own head? Orz has native sub-bodies.
23:14 < Endovior> I am pleased to be involved in a thing that you are excited about.
23:14 < Kel> =D
23:14 < Endovior> Eh... 'inside your own head' is nebulous with Orz.
23:14 < Endovior> It's not natively physical at all
23:14 < Teceler> Kel: I mean, I've been assuming this reply was written after Thorn recovered, which may interact badly with that timetable given that Leaf's rescue discussion was caused by Dotted Lines' response to the same thread that kicked off her breakdown. Although somewhat later, I suppose
23:14 < Endovior> All of its bodies are basically projections.
23:15 < Endovior> If you have some other way of creating mindlinked puppets to embiggen your headspace, that might help.
23:15 < Eva> Lioncourt might not want to sacrifice an alpha-fork but she's fine with arbitray numbers of beta-forks.
23:15 < Teceler> I could probably rework this to have occurred before that fairly trivially, or we could say arbitrary MWF Time Dilation Shenanigans, I guess
23:16 < Teceler> Do you have an interesting idea for that?
23:16 < linkhyrule5> @Compositness - Is that a thing Lioncourt would like not to happen? Because ME can probably figure out a way for that to not happen if he tries.
23:17 < Eva> Lioncourt is unaware that it is happening.
23:17 < Eva> If she discovered that it was happening she would want it to stop happening.
23:17 < Kel> Time Dilation Shenanigans are especially likely to happen in relation to Eventide
23:17 < Teceler> That is true
23:18 < Kel> and are already going on in relation to moving the time of Leaf's rescue to be reasonable
23:18 < Teceler> hm?
23:18 < Kel> because I wound up delaying the rescue by about a day while I hunted for DL icons
23:18 < Teceler> ah
23:19 < linkhyrule5> That is a thing that ME coudl find out, if you want him to, but he won't by default because privacy.
23:19 < Kel> because faces are hard
23:19 < Teceler> that, yeah, I was assuming icly that occurred as soon as they were packed and stuff
23:19 < Kel> So I *think* it *might* work to declare something to have happened prior to the rescue, if NV time was happening unusually quickly in relation to the forum, around that time?
23:19 < Kel> yeah!
23:19 < Kel> And with enough delay not to look too suspicious
23:20 < Teceler> do you have something you want to do under those circumstances?
23:20 < Endovior> ...also, I have just thought of the *best thing* to call Orz's technique.
23:20 < Endovior> You will see it shortly.
23:21 < Kel> Not specifically, but DL gives more constrained replies while in NV, and is also under more post-reeducation effects, which are a bit more fun for writing responses under, because it's harder
23:21 < Teceler> --I just reread DL's reply again and was 'helpful pandemics' intentional?
23:21 < Kel> Yeah!
23:21 < Kel> It's even something Cecil says on the radio, so it's not DL being subversive or anything, it's just a fact!
23:22 -!- MotherStarlight is now known as Mother_Starlight
23:22 < Teceler> Thorn is going to ask if that was a typo XD
23:22 < Kel> Because I think Cecil normally is pretty well aligned with the SSP, and thinks it's not saying anything bad about the govt to say they create helpful pandemics, so it's probably not forbidden
23:22 < Kel> XD
23:22 < Kel> I'm not sure what that would plausibly be a typo of!
23:23 -!- MotherStarlight has joined #backstage
23:23 < linkhyrule5> where is "helpful pandemics" written?
23:23 -!- Mother_Starlight has quit
23:23 < Kel> in a PM between DL and Thorn
23:23 < Teceler> More a 'typed the wrong word accidentally' or 'darn you, autocorrect',but, yes
23:23 < Kel> ah!
23:23 < Teceler> Thorn is puzzled
23:24 < Endovior> ...Not having a good time with the connection there?
23:24 < Kel> Could someone competent at exporting logs start logging, just in case?
23:24 <~MotherStarlight> Switching to an irssi instance that's running inside screen
23:24 <~MotherStarlight> so I can leave it in the background more easily.
23:25 < Teceler> My client is logging, but it doesn't run when the computer is suspended at night
23:25 < Endovior> I configured logging just now.
23:25 < Eva> Okay, so... Lioncourt could use Orz's subagent ability to overwrite a donor body with a delta fork of her memnos-making abilities. Orz could then teach that delta how to do the Orzy thing, and then Lioncourt could retrieve the Memnos.
23:25 < Eva> This has a lot less risks because that delta has essentially no identity to break.
23:25 < linkhyrule5> Can Lioncourt steal Memnos from other people?
23:26 < Endovior> ^^
23:26 < Kel> "helpful pandemics" is written 2 PMs after the last exported one.
23:26 < Eva> Lioncourt can copy Memnos from other people but it is horribly invasive and traumatic for them.
23:26 -!- sonatagreen has joined #backstage
23:26 < Kel> *3
23:26 < Teceler> I do probably need to run another export soon, yes
23:27 < Eva> Because the delta has almost no personality to speak of, this is much less of an ethical question in this case.
23:29 < Endovior> This is still, in full generality, a thing that will be dangerous to learn, but probably less dangerous like that than by some other plausible routes.
23:29 < Teceler> Also, because Thorn is wondering but not wanting to ask icly, is the thing with the sky related to DL's ability?
23:30 < Endovior> Also, for reference, I don't have the slightest clue what DL is/does
23:30 < Endovior> Can anyone provide a synopsis?
23:30 < Teceler> DL = Dotted Lines
23:30 < Eva> Yeah, the obvious risk is pulling a mindful of trauma from the delta instead of getting the neat, condensed, sanitized Memnos.
23:30 < Eva> Dotted Lines is apparently human and senses the shape of conspiracies.
23:30 < Kel> DL sees the structures of organizations in the format of a chart of dotted lines, glowing arrows, and circles, in the sky.
23:31 < Endovior> ...huh. Noted.
23:31 < Teceler> by the thing with the sky I mean the re-education-related thing
23:31 < Teceler> that was probably unclear, sorry
23:31 < Endovior> Is that, like, an Ingot power or equivalent, or something even weirder?
23:32 < Kel> ~ingot power
23:32 < Teceler> well, clouds, huh, I got that tangled up, but they were both sky-related things
23:32 < Kel> Oh! He was recently re-educated for having incorrect beliefs about the moon and clouds,
23:32 < Kel> I'll pull up specifics in a sec
23:33 < Teceler> Kel: are we saying this pm is after Thorn's collapse and recovery?
23:35 < Kel> Yes, and before Leaf rescues DL, if that's okay with you?
23:35 < Teceler> yup, I just wanted to check before I put in the note related to that
23:35 < Kel> Okay!
23:36 < Teceler> there, replied
23:37 < Kel> Oh! His *wrong* beliefs about the moon: he moon is real, more than 60 ft above the ground, in space, has been visited by Americans, not made out of styrofoam and aggressive propaganda.
23:37 < Kel> Also he described the moon in semi-public, which is banned
23:37 < Teceler> well then
23:38 < Kel> and basically for knowing in some detail how clouds form, and what causes rain and lightning, which is usually censored.
23:40 < Teceler> if this gets conveyed to Thorn at any point she will want to destroy DL's (former) government even more than she already does, barring a /very good explanation/
23:40 < linkhyrule5> DL's world is already on the fix-list
23:40 < linkhyrule5> for ME
23:41 < linkhyrule5> Speaking of which ,Kel!
23:41 < linkhyrule5> ME scries DL's world!
23:41 < Kel> Yes?
23:41 < Teceler> Thorn: /Good/
23:41 < linkhyrule5> General things - major organizations, history, powers, laws of physics
23:41 < linkhyrule5> Do his eyeballs explode?
23:41 < Kel> Probably!
23:41 < Endovior> Message sent, from Orz
23:41 < linkhyrule5> looool
23:41 < Kel> NV is not very friendly!
23:41 < Teceler> ...ha
23:41 < linkhyrule5> Does he get results?
23:42 < Teceler> poor ME. Such exploding eyeballs
23:42 < linkhyrule5> Though at this point he's warded his eyeballs after the hundredth time they've blown up
23:42 < Kel> Yeah, I'll type up an OOC PM in a bit, once he finishes replying to Thorn
23:42 < Endovior> Ah, Night Vale. Now things make more sense.
23:42 < linkhyrule5> kk
23:43 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: I am not going to go into all the detail about psi-gamma and psi-epsilon slights in the reply, but you can assume that ME gets a summary of that
23:43 < Kel> Maybe his vision can be vertically flipped, for variety?
23:43 < linkhyrule5> mmkay
23:43 < linkhyrule5> I was more thinking about what it can do on its own, though
23:43 < linkhyrule5> but
23:43 < linkhyrule5> yeah
23:43 < linkhyrule5> Kel: Loool
23:43 < linkhyrule5> Sounds good
23:44 < linkhyrule5> He'll just unflip them, but it will make him makea disgruntled expressionf or a bit.
23:44 < linkhyrule5> Aisilian: "Uncooperative worlds. Ugh. So annoying."
23:44 < Kel> Hee! And it will probably be unexpected!
23:44 < Teceler> XDXDXD
23:45 < Teceler> It really can't do much on its own except make more of itself and the abilites shown and miscellaneous other simple nanomanufacturing. Maybe some minor influence of nearby biomorphs. It would be much cleverer with them, though.
23:46 < linkhyrule5> mmkay
23:47 < linkhyrule5> as opposed to the exsurgent virus, which will happily create nanoswarms to then infect?
23:48 < Teceler> well, that was partly covered under 'making more of itself' and 'movement', but, yes, it isn't very effective without a host. I don't think that's a trait entirely limited to that strain, but
23:48 < linkhyrule5> ah
23:48 < linkhyrule5> I got the impressiont hat the exsurgent virus was very good at infecting /anything/
23:48 < linkhyrule5> up to and including /dirt/
23:48 < linkhyrule5> but
23:48 < Teceler> it is
23:49 < sonatagreen> Ah! I have received logs by forum PM. Thank you!
23:49 < Teceler> it's just that a, you frequentlly have multiple strains at once in infected areas
23:49 < linkhyrule5> so yeah, animate dirt basically means "nanoswarms"
23:49 < linkhyrule5> oh, making more of yourself
23:49 < linkhyrule5> yeah, okay
23:49 < Teceler> b, it uses different vectors, which is part of that
23:49 < Teceler> and... probably more that isn't immediately coming to mind
23:49 < Eva> Was Lioncourt going to get an Orz-PM anytime soon?
23:50 < Eva> Or should I go to bed?
23:50 < linkhyrule5> I think he's waiting on ME for that
23:50 < Teceler> hm, Glory is strictly a basilisk hack. Does ME want an unusual basilisk hack to look at? Or should be have a more generic specimen next?
23:50 < linkhyrule5> and ME is stil ldecidiing if he's getting Lioncourt involved
23:50 < Eva> Oh I see
23:50 < Kel> Oh oops I need to go to bed ~ 80 mins ago
23:50 < linkhyrule5> loool
23:51 < Kel> I will once I finish this PM
23:51 < linkhyrule5> night
23:51 < linkhyrule5> good luck!
23:51 < Kel> Good night!
23:51 < Teceler> I should go to sleep too, honestly
23:51 < Kel> If I forget to send ME a PM, please poke me tomorrow
23:51 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - Either would do! Depends on how much you want him to see before getting to the good stuff, as it were
23:51 < linkhyrule5> will do
23:51 < Kel> thanks!
23:51 < Teceler> well, what is he looking for here?
23:51 < linkhyrule5> A general sense for the exsurgent virus as a whole
23:51 < linkhyrule5> similarities between strains
23:52 < linkhyrule5> what it looked like in the very first strain
23:52 < linkhyrule5> that sort of thing
23:52 < Teceler> also there's an element of 'how much I am willing to describe'
23:52 < linkhyrule5> I mean he could past scry if he wanted to
23:52 < linkhyrule5> yeah, pretty much
23:53 < Teceler> strains listed in the corebook are the haunting virus, the mindstealer virus, and the xenomorph virus (and Watts-MacLeod). The core functionally can probably be derived from those three
23:53 < Teceler> and they probably have samples of all of them, they're implied to be common
23:53 < linkhyrule5> That'll probably due
23:53 < linkhyrule5> *do
23:53 < Teceler> but then there are some fun ones from supplements
23:54 < linkhyrule5> throw as many as you feel like writing up at me!
23:54 < linkhyrule5> Or throw the supplements at me if you'd pre fer
23:54 < Teceler> https://robboyle.wordpress.com/eclipse-phase-pdfs/
23:55 < linkhyrule5> loool
23:55 < Teceler> I am not sure how you have not already encountered that :P
23:57 < Teceler> Glory has a virus variant, I am looking at the other scenarios at the moment
23:57 < linkhyrule5> Eva - you may as well go to bed, ME is going to need to make a safer Orz translator for now
23:57 < linkhyrule5> the current versionw ould do unfortunate things to non-ME people
23:58 < Eva> mmm, body horror. Glory is nasty stuff.
23:58 < Teceler> oops, yeah, I should have warned for that
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23:59 < Endovior> I assume you've read Orz's message at this point?
23:59 < Eva> ... Y'know, I would put even odds on Lioncourt to be able to fix physical Glory infection if it hadn't reached the brain and she had anti-nanoswarm effective gear.
--- Day changed Thu May 28 2015
00:00 < Teceler> Continuity has the Chrynalus strain, but the link doesn't work right
00:00 < linkhyrule5> Endovior -yeah
00:00 < linkhyrule5> replying-ish
00:00 < linkhyrule5> kind of tired though
00:00 < linkhyrule5> so dunno if I'm giong to finish
00:00 < Endovior> How do you feel about *HUG*s?
00:01 < Eva> night all
00:01 < Teceler> sleep well
00:01 < Kel> Night!
00:01 < Endovior> night
00:02 < Kel> Actually, I will finish this PM to Thorn tomorrow morning. It's 11, and I'm getting up at 5:30 so I need to go to sleep *now* and finishing tonight wouldn't make a big difference.
00:02 < Teceler> okay
00:02 < Kel> Goodnight!~
00:02 -!- MTC has quit
00:02 < Teceler> sleep well
00:02 < Kel> Thanks!
00:02 -!- Kel is now known as Kelsleeping
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00:04 < linkhyrule5> Endovior: I feel likeLioncourt should stay very very far away from HUGs
00:04 < linkhyrule5> :P
00:05 < linkhyrule5> ME might be volunteering an alpha fork soon tho
00:05 < Endovior> I was happy with the new Orz-ism
00:05 < Endovior> It fits
00:06 -!- Eva has quit
00:07 < linkhyrule5> it really does
00:07 < linkhyrule5> it really does.
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00:10 < linkhyrule5> this is way too catchy
00:10 < linkhyrule5> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wko-Iw49sHY
00:14 < Teceler> I'm going to go sleep too, I cannot coherent response
00:14 < Teceler> everyone else who is also tired should as well
00:14 < Teceler> because sleep is useful
00:16 -!- Thatwasaway is now known as Thatwasademo
00:21 < linkhyrule5> lol
00:21 < Thatwasademo> bah who needs sleep
00:21 < linkhyrule5> night
00:21 < linkhyrule5> luck
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06:51 < Endovior> o/
06:51 < kappabeta> hi!
06:51 < kappabeta> sup
06:52 < Endovior> Been up for a bit
06:52 < Endovior> Ready to get started whenever
06:52 < kappabeta> :D 'k
06:53 < kappabeta> where's post?
06:53 < Endovior> I haven't made it yet, though it's ready
06:53 < Endovior> Are we going with "Mark Rescues This One Girl"?
06:54 < kappabeta> I feel like there must be a better title than that around here somewhere... *checks under the bed*
06:54 < Endovior> Yeah, I'm lousy at titles.
06:54 < kappabeta> under the bed there are many dust bunnies and no inspiration
06:54 < Endovior> Alas
06:55 < kappabeta> I can always make up another Ash and Stars lyric like I did that time when Miles got kidnapped, that feels vaguely appropriate
06:55 < Endovior> Sure
06:58 < Endovior> So, did you have something specific in mind, or...?
06:58 < kappabeta> I am presently inventing, if that's what you mean
06:58 < Endovior> Noted
06:58 < kappabeta> I figured out which song it should be from and now I'm bashing words together until some of them stick XD
06:59 < Endovior> lol
07:00 < Endovior> If it helps; the Technocracy guys are strongly of the opinion that they are the good guys. Even though that seems to be not the case to outside observers.
07:00 < kappabeta> hahahahahahahaha
07:00 < Endovior> I have a post that reflects their self-righteousness.
07:01 < kappabeta> Mark is actually going to try diplomacy-as-Miles as his first recourse before he starts using violence XD
07:01 < kappabeta> hmm
07:02 < Endovior> If your plan involves something along the lines of a demon appearing in their helicopter, violence will be a thing that happens.
07:02 < kappabeta> hahaha
07:02 < Endovior> Basically before you can open your mouth
07:03 < kappabeta> A to-all-outward-appearances ordinary human, rather short and not particularly threatening, appearing in the helicopter.
07:03 < kappabeta> And turning out to be impervious to physical and mental harm.
07:03 < kappabeta> also, lyric snippet: "when the sun came down"
07:03 < kappabeta> this is a pun
07:03 < Endovior> That would suggest that they shoot you with a rifle, instead of, say, a railgun.
07:04 < kappabeta> Daeva-wise, getting shot with a railgun doesn't hurt any *more* than getting shot with a rifle
07:04 < Endovior> Teleporting into their invisible stealth helicopter is not a thing that is okay.
07:04 < kappabeta> they both sting a little
07:04 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
07:05 < kappabeta> (the song is about that time the capital of the vorkosigan district got blown to hell by atomic weapons, the sun in question is a nuke.)
07:05 < kappabeta> (local significance: sunset, vampires, the effect Mark is going to have on local technocratic forces)
07:05 < Endovior> Also note: Daeva-wise, they have access to effects that will so more than 'nothing'. Primium bullets are *super expensive*, but they are literally made of magic, and can hurt things that decline to be hurt.
07:06 < Endovior> They won't use them until it becomes evident that other stuff does not work
07:06 < kappabeta> Daeva indestructibility has a robustness roughly equal to that of torching
07:07 < Endovior> I am working on the 'this form of indestructibility has not been tested against magical effects' hypothesis.
07:07 < kappabeta> there is a hard limit at "superficial damage or consensual alteration"
07:07 < kappabeta> I mean, it just got tested against the Gauntlet
07:07 < kappabeta> when Mark walked in
07:07 < Endovior> And the bullets will do 'somewhat more than nothing', not 'kill you like bullets would a normal human'.
07:08 < Endovior> Also, the Gauntlet is uncreative, and actually does ordinary physical damage.
07:08 < kappabeta> Like, bullets already do "somewhat more than nothing", it's just that "somewhat more than nothing" is "ow, I'm bleeding slightly"
07:09 < Endovior> Noted.
07:10 < Endovior> Primium should do somewhat more, in the sense of "Ow, I should probably not stand in front of this anti-aircraft gun for a few minutes"
07:10 < kappabeta> hahahahahahaha
07:10 < Endovior> While everyone else is like "Holy shit, that thing killed Godzilla last week"
07:10 < kappabeta> XD
07:11 < kappabeta> I mean, you can get *wide coverage* of "ow, I'm bleeding slightly", you just can't, say, detach any pieces or do significant functional damage to any organs
07:12 < Endovior> The amount of damage would probably be more concerning to someone like Cam, who knows how much Daeva invulnerability should cover, in the sense of "Huh, this is doing more damage than I expected was possible".
07:12 < kappabeta> haha
07:13 < kappabeta> Whereas Mark is just like "well that's an interesting sensation"
07:13 < kappabeta> "but no seriously can we talk about this"
07:14 < Endovior> That said, it is not impossible that they could figure out a way to kill an unconscious or otherwise-disabled Daeva.
07:14 < Endovior> So don't become unconscious or otherwise disabled.
07:14 < kappabeta> It's not known IC to be impossible
07:14 < kappabeta> but again, robustness on a level with torching
07:15 < kappabeta> the way i conceive of it is that the more damage you're trying to do, the more impossible it gets, up to death at *strictly* impossible
07:16 < Endovior> Also; they have precognitive-like Time shenanigans, and as such will be rather difficult to land attacks on.
07:16 < Endovior> In the sense of "You just stabbed me? No, I already dodged behind you and am shooting you in the back instead."
07:16 < Endovior> If they're willing to soak up Paradox
07:16 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
07:17 < kappabeta> I mean, Mark has the MP to cast _time stop_
07:17 < Endovior> Noted. They can do that kind of thing, too.
07:17 < Endovior> It's *vulgar* and as such expensive.
07:18 < Endovior> Oh, hang on, you have a title ready, don't you
07:18 < kappabeta> his strategy looks like "try diplomacy. try diplomacy harder. okay they're still shooting at me. time stop, destroy all weapons, stun all combatants, depart helicopter with girl"
07:18 < Endovior> "When the Sun Came Down"?
07:18 < kappabeta> yes
07:19 < Endovior> kk
07:20 < Endovior> https://weareincontrol.dreamwidth.org/302.html
07:21 < kappabeta> nice journal
07:22 < Endovior> "Control" is the name of the Technocratic leadership group, and "We are in Control" is one of their obnoxious slogans
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07:24 < kappabeta> and tag! :D
07:25 < kappabeta> "any hemophage pursuit will find an empty shack, with no sign of where their quarry had left to" - and a mysterious exploded Mark corpse. That too. :D
07:25 < Endovior> Noted
07:29 < Endovior> tag
07:29 < Endovior> (note that this is a helicopter-dropship, so it's got the 'open sides' design
07:29 < Endovior> (if relevant)
07:30 < kappabeta> ooh, so he doesn't even have to do much damage when he grabs her and bails?
07:30 < kappabeta> just whatever amount of matter he has to pull to give himself wings
07:30 < Endovior> Yeah, if you don't mind doing so over a lake
07:30 < Endovior> Also, Mark's an Angel, then?
07:30 < kappabeta> yeah
07:30 < Endovior> Noted
07:31 < kappabeta> ^^
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07:32 < kappabeta> tag
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 29, 2015 16:35:54 GMT
Spoilered because long. 07:37 < Endovior> tag
07:40 < Endovior> Er, hang on
07:40 < kappabeta> hmm?
07:40 < kappabeta> also who or what is Eddie XD
07:41 < Adelene> Contextually, eldrich horrors from beyond the stars. Like Astra. Or Orz, I suppose.
07:41 < Endovior> Just realized that 'completely immune' was a bad response to that
07:42 < kappabeta> hehehe
07:42 < Endovior> EDE, or Extra-Dimensional Entities. Pronounced "Eddie", used in approximately the same sense as "Jerry"
07:42 < kappabeta> all set now?
07:43 < Endovior> yep
07:43 < kappabeta> k, tag
07:49 < Endovior> tag
07:50 < kappabeta> tag
07:53 < Endovior> tag
07:55 < kappabeta> tag
07:59 < kappabeta> Man, the more I think about it, the more I realize that arcany and angelhood are a powerhouse combination.
08:00 < kappabeta> Angel powers are mainly restricted by how well you know what you're doing; arcany comes with a basketful of magical senses telling you how to do things.
08:02 < Endovior> tag
08:03 < Endovior> Also, can I have a synopsis on 'arcany'?
08:03 < kappabeta> Sure.
08:03 < Endovior> Or be pointed in an approximately useful direction?
08:03 < kappabeta> There are nine crafts, each with an associated capability set, personality profile, and magical sense.
08:04 < kappabeta> Mark's lineup in particular is "SONG, METAL, PLANT, BREATH, heat/stone/crystal/aura/blood"
08:05 < Endovior> Ah, that powerset.
08:05 < Endovior> It hasn't been well-explained in glowfic yet (I don't think), but I've heard it mentioned
08:05 < kappabeta> Yeah
08:06 < Endovior> I don't have a good sense on what its limitations are, say
08:06 < kappabeta> [gdocs link redacted]
08:06 < kappabeta> I don't have a *great* sense of it either
08:06 < Endovior> That is helpful
08:07 < kappabeta> I have summoned an Aestrix
08:07 < kappabeta> XD
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08:07 < Endovior> lol
08:07 < kappabeta> hail, aestrix!
08:07 < kappabeta> Explain us an arcany!
08:07 < Endovior> It's super effective!
08:07 < kappabeta> Use your powers for good!
08:07 < Aestrix> I heard you all wanted me to explain a thing!
08:07 < Endovior> Yeah, Arcany
08:07 < Aestrix> You mean my powers of rambling like a crazy person?
08:07 < Endovior> It is about to be relevant
08:07 < kappabeta> Yes.
08:08 < Aestrix> Okay, which part needs to be explained or should I just assume you are jon snow and I need to explain all of everything?
08:08 < kappabeta> well, we have the spreadsheet
08:08 < kappabeta> but other than that
08:08 < kappabeta> we are jon snow
08:08 < Endovior> I have seen the spreadsheet and the fic, but there hasn't been an in-depth explanation
08:08 < Endovior> So far
08:08 < Endovior> And I am about to have to figure out how it interacts with WoD-type magery
08:09 < Aestrix> That is because I have been ~kind of avoiding it~ because I have been making up half of it on the fly
08:09 < Endovior> Presumably
08:09 < Endovior> lol
08:09 < Endovior> So noted
08:09 < Aestrix> <3
08:09 < Endovior> I won't feel too bad about making stuff up in response, then!
08:09 < Aestrix> We can make stuff up together!
08:10 < Aestrix> I am actually pretty willing to collaborate and plot to make stuff, Kappa got an entire craft because I love Kappa.
08:10 < Endovior> Kappa was pointing out that it seems to synergize super-well with being an Angel
08:10 < kappabeta> :D
08:10 < kappabeta> i love you too aestrix
08:10 < Aestrix> <3
08:10 < Aestrix> It honestly kind of does now that I think of it
08:10 < kappabeta> Yeah like, arcany is all "have these magical senses!" and angelhood is all "my biggest limitation is not directly knowing what I'm doing!"
08:10 < Aestrix> Yeah
08:10 < kappabeta> :D
08:11 < kappabeta> Also like, mark can just MAKE plants
08:11 < kappabeta> with which to plantcraft
08:11 < Aestrix> Though I don't think arcany would be very good about translating to a thing that angels can USE
08:11 < kappabeta> hmm?
08:11 < Aestrix> It does not easily give This Is What The Composition Is
08:11 < kappabeta> Well, but like
08:11 < Aestrix> It's more... 'This is what this strange thing tastes like in five different ways, figure out what the heck that means.'
08:11 < kappabeta> it gives a lot of different views on thigns
08:11 < Aestrix> Yeah, that.
08:11 < kappabeta> and Mark, uh, is Mark
08:11 < kappabeta> XD
08:11 < Aestrix> It does that
08:11 < Aestrix> <3
08:12 < Aestrix> Okay, anyway, explanations.
08:12 < kappabeta> <3
08:12 < Endovior> I figured lack of experience would probably be a relevant factor
08:12 < Aestrix> Okay, so - nine crafts, people get handed different strengths and weaknesses depending on personality and how their ritual goes.
08:13 < Aestrix> Spreadsheet characteristics are the relevant major personality traits that lend themselves to strengths/weaknesses, with some fudge room if the ritual didn't go badly but didn't go great
08:14 < Endovior> Noted. This is the ritual involving weird ingredients and magical hand-holding?
08:14 < kappabeta> tag
08:14 < kappabeta> yes, Weird Ingredients Ritual
08:14 < Aestrix> Well, magical hand-holding is for making sure all of the weird ingredients are what's required
08:14 < Aestrix> But yes
08:16 < Aestrix> Anyway. If you are good at a craft, you get more of the relevant extra sense. Stone's extra sense is blank because I am just confused about stone's existence and I'm waiting for the moment when it becomes relevant and it hasn't happened yet
08:16 < kappabeta> It's probably about to happen when Mark dives to the bottom of the lake and builds himself an impregnable bunker there.
08:16 < Aestrix> Oh. Yeah that will make it relevant.
08:17 < Aestrix> But I'm still explaining things
08:17 < kappabeta> yes, true
08:18 < kappabeta> (I love Mark's craft lineup, he's *not deficient in anything* and he's like the only one)
08:18 < kappabeta> (having three bloody personalities will do that to you)
08:18 < Aestrix> So no matter what the arcanist gets extrasensory powers, though with some strengths and weaknesses ala crafts.
08:19 < Aestrix> Miles is a bright brilliant star at all things breath, so he's fantastic at finding stuff through how air/water moves, and when he's more advanced, telling momentum/movement in general
08:20 < Aestrix> Inkspot is good at crystal, so she's got enhanced vision and doesn't technically need to use her eyes to see, she just needs light to be present in the spot.
08:20 < Aestrix> That sort of thing. Makes sense?
08:22 < kappabeta> yeah
08:22 < Endovior> tag
08:23 < Aestrix> And you tend to get the senses even if you're not good at the craft, it's just that it's not as easy to process, not as easy to FIND (as in, notice that you are sensing a new thing because you have all these other things) and if you're really bad at it, actively unpleasant to use
08:24 < Endovior> That helps.
08:24 < Aestrix> Inkspot really hates using metal craft, but can tell some basics if she's paying attention, but it is sort of a brown note for her.
08:24 < Endovior> Mark would probably notice various interesting things about the people on-board, if he's making an effort to use his weird new senses.
08:25 < Aestrix> Mhm
08:25 < kappabeta> He's definitely taking in information
08:25 < kappabeta> what sorts of things?
08:25 < Endovior> How obvious would it be, for instance, if a given person did not have blood?
08:26 < kappabeta> hella obvious i'd imagine
08:26 < Aestrix> If Mark has a speck of bloodcraft, it would be hella obvious
08:26 < Aestrix> Practically screaming, actually.
08:26 < kappabeta> who's the bloodless one
08:26 < Endovior> Okay, then. The big guys seem to be robots.
08:26 < kappabeta> ahahahahahahahaha
08:26 < Endovior> All three of them, and practically identical.
08:27 < Endovior> Like, Terminators wearing a flimsy skin-looking disguise
08:27 < Aestrix> Heh
08:27 < Endovior> They are HITmarks, if that means anything to you.
08:27 < Aestrix> Absolutely nothing, sorry.
08:28 < Endovior> http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Hyper_Intelligence_Technologies
08:28 < kappabeta> tag
08:28 < Aestrix> Thanks <3
08:28 < kappabeta> i think we can declare this the point where negotiations break down XD
08:28 < Aestrix> ... I completely lost my train of thought, what else do you need explained?
08:29 < kappabeta> Stone craft probably
08:29 < Endovior> That about covers it, thanks
08:29 < Aestrix> Mhm!
08:29 < Aestrix> Iiiii have to figure out stone craft craaaaap.
08:29 < Aestrix> ... 'How long a thing has been the way it is?' Ish?
08:30 < kappabeta> hee
08:30 < Aestrix> 'How long it is going to stay like that if left to its own devices?'
08:30 < Aestrix> Ugh, it's making parallels with metal craft again, and just after I'd actually separated them instead of leaving them together in this awkward blob.
08:30 < kappabeta> <3
08:30 < Aestrix> <3
08:31 < kappabeta> It comes off pretty different from metal in my head!
08:31 < Aestrix> The aesthetics are totally different
08:31 < Aestrix> Which probably does it
08:31 < Endovior> So... if Mark gets shot with a railgun at basically point-blank, does he go flying out the open side of the helicopter?
08:31 < Aestrix> But the actual effects kind of work out to be similar.
08:32 < Endovior> On account of kinetic energy transfer?
08:32 < kappabeta> I don't *think* so
08:32 < Endovior> Or does Angel invulnerability ignore that kind of thing
08:32 < Aestrix> I think actually it would, Cam got punched and went down just fine
08:32 < kappabeta> I am having aesthetic feelings
08:33 < kappabeta> I think that like... if you shoot him with something that *would* go right through him, it doesn't get to knock him around
08:33 < Adelene> I like the time sense thing!
08:33 < Aestrix> Ooo, aesthetic feelings
08:33 < kappabeta> even though if you punch him he reacts normally to being punched
08:33 < kappabeta> Because like
08:33 < Aestrix> Thank you Adelene <3
08:33 < kappabeta> of the thing where the bigger the effect you're trying to have, the more dampened it is?
08:33 < kappabeta> <3
08:34 < Adelene> The time sense thing even looks like it could *kind of* be that precog I wanted, in a very limited set of situations and to someone sufficiently clever.
08:34 < Aestrix> Hmmm yeah the permanence/longevity thing is good, because metal doesn't do that, it's like, 'If shit fails horribly and it all goes wrong, it will all go wrong at THIS PARTICULAR POINT.'
08:34 < Aestrix> Heeee
08:35 < Endovior> Would it make a difference if the effect was partially a magical "get pushed in that direction" effect? Like a fairy might do?
08:35 < kappabeta> hmm
08:35 < kappabeta> I think combining it with high damage lowers its effectiveness
08:35 < kappabeta> that's my feeling anyway
08:36 < Endovior> Is it enough to knock him literal feet away and leave him stylishly plummeting through the air?
08:37 < kappabeta> Sure.
08:37 < Endovior> kk
08:37 < Endovior> tag
08:38 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
08:39 < Aestrix> Hello!
08:39 < Endovior> hi!
08:39 < Kel> Hi!
08:39 < Kel> Teceler, are you up?
08:39 < kappabeta> Okay so, breath craft on instinct: reversing his direction of movement relative to helicopter y/n?
08:39 < Endovior> he hasn't been chatting so far
08:39 < kappabeta> Or just stopping it if reversing is too heavy
08:40 < Kel> Okay, I had a pronoun question re: Tyche, but I guess I'll just go w/ the profile field and not the PM's words?
08:41 < kappabeta> aaaaaaestrix
08:41 < Endovior> lol
08:41 < Aestrix> Sorry, I was being an adult and taking care of household chores
08:41 < Aestrix> Hmmmm
08:41 < kappabeta> congratulations
08:42 < Aestrix> Thank you, I am very proud of myself <3
08:42 < kappabeta> And like, he hasn't been totally idle with his arcany, he has nonzero practice with his stronger crafts
08:42 < Aestrix> How good is he at breath craft?
08:42 < kappabeta> He is "bored Mark working on magic for a few days" good
08:43 < Aestrix> So decent and unprecedented in comparison to someone with similar time spent on the thing but not actually a master
08:43 < kappabeta> yeah
08:43 < Aestrix> I forget, is he strong at breath craft?
08:43 < kappabeta> "SONG, METAL, PLANT, BREATH, heat/stone/crystal/aura/blood"
08:44 < kappabeta> He is LOTS at the four big ones and merely unexceptional at the rest
08:44 < Aestrix> Mhm
08:45 < Aestrix> I think he could stop it, yeah. Reversing it is a stretch for him right now.
08:45 < kappabeta> alternately, since I'm sure he's expecting to get shot, he can decline to be moved in the first place XD
08:46 < Endovior> Again, nontrivial magical force of 'move in this direction'.
08:46 < Aestrix> Yeah I think he wouldn't be able to account for the magical force of 'move in this direction'
08:46 < Endovior> They will be shocked if you merely fall out of the helicopter instead of go "team rocket blasting off again"
08:46 < kappabeta> I mean, I don't *know* how the things interact
08:46 < kappabeta> hahahahahahahahaha
08:47 < kappabeta> "wouldn't be able to account for" seems like a weird phrasing
08:47 < Aestrix> If it were an ordinary rail gun bullet I think he'd be fine
08:47 < Endovior> There's a lot of Forces behind the weapon in question, it's designed to remove inconveniently magical tanks from the vicinity
08:48 < Aestrix> But since it's a magic thing of 'move in this direction'.... Eh. I don't want arcany to gain power by taking potshots at other magic systems, you know?
08:48 < Endovior> ?
08:48 < kappabeta> so, he *starts* moving
08:48 < Aestrix> That probably didn't make sense to anyone that wasn't me
08:49 < kappabeta> and then stops.
08:49 < Endovior> Sounds reasonable.
08:49 < Aestrix> Yep! :D
08:49 < kappabeta> I'm working on the assumption that _mass time stop_ functions normally
08:50 < Endovior> It will be contested. The woman will decline to stop.
08:51 < Endovior> She has enough Time to still take actions while everyone else stops
08:51 < kappabeta> will the woman also decline to react to a stunner bolt to the head
08:52 < Endovior> That will give her more trouble, since she can't matrix-dodge while also negating time stop. She's a cyborg, but less heavy than some of the others here.
08:53 < Endovior> It may take more than one shot.
08:55 < kappabeta> tag
08:57 < Kel> Oh oops yeah!
09:02 < Endovior> tag
09:02 < kappabeta> angel time!
09:02 < Endovior> Yep
09:03 < Aestrix> I like that this is actually a fight and isn't completely one sided. I mean, it's kind of one sided, but not ~completely~
09:03 < kappabeta> hahahahahahaha
09:03 < Aestrix> It makes me happy inside.
09:03 < kappabeta> <3
09:04 < Endovior> Yeah, these guys are actually pretty competent. They're just unprepared for completely invincible opposition.
09:04 < Endovior> That wasn't in the mission briefing.
09:04 < Aestrix> That is kind of understandable!
09:04 < Aestrix> Are they going to complain to their bosses about that?
09:04 < Endovior> They would have sent a different team to deal with completely invincible opposition, yeah.
09:04 < Aestrix> "Our mission briefing DID NOT INCLUDE invincible strangely magic people!"
09:04 < Aestrix> Heh
09:04 < kappabeta> pfffff
09:05 < kappabeta> Breath craft check: Accelerate towards the surface of the lake, get all the way to the bottom as fast as possible while carrying a bubble of air with him and leaving the surface currents undisturbed? This is totally the sort of shit he would've practiced at home
09:05 < kappabeta> he might even have done it timestopped before
09:05 < Endovior> Void Engineers, probably, using Dimensional Science to attempt to banish Eddie back where he came from.
09:05 < kappabeta> heeee
09:05 < Aestrix> Yep, that's a thing he can do
09:06 < Aestrix> But he can't do much else with arcany while doing that thing, because he's still, while Markly, a novice <3
09:06 < kappabeta> that's all the arcany he needs to be doing
09:06 < kappabeta> mass time stop is his friend XD
09:06 < Kel> (misread that as sparkly)
09:06 < Aestrix> Hee <3
09:06 < kappabeta> <3
09:06 < Endovior> lol
09:10 < Aestrix> So I realize I should probably tag in Rae/Cordelia
09:10 < kappabeta> <3
09:10 < Aestrix> But you are doing many things, Kappa.
09:10 < kappabeta> hehehehehe
09:10 < Aestrix> Shall I tag and possibly add to your stuff to do?
09:10 < kappabeta> So I'm betting that they have some way to pursue him to the bottom of the lake, but I'm not sure they have it on the helicopter with them
09:10 < Endovior> They do, and they do.
09:11 < kappabeta> oh?
09:11 < Endovior> Robots.
09:11 < Endovior> Do not breathe
09:11 < Aestrix> Snrk.
09:11 < kappabeta> No, other thing meant
09:11 < kappabeta> Way to *know where he went*
09:11 < Endovior> Oh, that's easy.
09:11 < Endovior> Magic.
09:11 < kappabeta> "magic" not complete answer
09:12 < Endovior> They call is 'enlightened science' and 'hyperstatistics', but it's basically bullshit probability-based information magic.
09:12 < kappabeta> hahaha
09:13 < Endovior> Jonathan has enough Entropy to track Mark, barring more magic use.
09:13 < Endovior> Of a sort which will actually inconvenience them.
09:14 < kappabeta> and I suppose erasing his tracks won't help
09:14 < Endovior> Nope, he can magically predict where you're going.
09:14 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
09:14 < kappabeta> Where he is going: Straight down.
09:16 < Endovior> Lake Superior is somewhat deep. You've got room to work with.
09:17 < Endovior> In fact, you're not terribly far from the second-deepest point on the continent, as it happens.
09:17 < kappabeta> hehehehehe
09:20 < Aestrix> I have tagged you in Rae/Cordelia
09:20 < kappabeta> <3
09:20 < Aestrix> <3
09:20 < Aestrix> I still have every faith that he's going to end up giving her at least three blessings. xD
09:22 < kappabeta> okay so Arcany Question
09:22 < Aestrix> Yes'm?
09:23 < kappabeta> how impregnable a fortress can one make
09:23 < kappabeta> in a bubble of air transmuted out of the rock/dirt under the bottom of a lake
09:23 < kappabeta> when one is hella pressed for time
09:23 < Aestrix> Uhh
09:24 < Aestrix> I think Mark in particular could make something pretty good at handling ordinary attacks
09:24 < Endovior> Probably more convenient to do that with big angelic power than with Arcany?
09:24 < kappabeta> I mean, he's using the angelic power to create the physical structure
09:24 < Aestrix> I was thinking angelic power and then arcany after
09:24 < kappabeta> the arcany is to add magic afterward
09:24 < Aestrix> Yeah
09:25 < Aestrix> So like, something 30th century strong, plus magic making it stronger.
09:25 < Aestrix> Probably not the *best* magic (sorry Kappa) but every little bit counts.
09:26 < kappabeta> And note that Mark's idea of an impregnable fortress is heavy on the "ideally no one even knows it's here"
09:26 < kappabeta> is that something arcany can accomplish
09:26 < kappabeta> because if so, he's been practicing
09:26 < Aestrix> To ordinary eyes, he can totally do that thing
09:27 < Endovior> Security through obscurity is a good idea, but insufficient in this specific case.
09:27 < Aestrix> Yeah, I don't think he can handle magic findy stuff
09:27 < kappabeta> I mean, he can *camouflage* pretty well all by himself, it's the magic findy stuff he's worried about
09:27 < Endovior> It is, in particular, really insufficient if you happen to have the girl with you.
09:28 < kappabeta> what *about* the girl
09:28 < Endovior> Which is, presumably, the point of making an impregnable fortress
09:28 < Endovior> tracking device
09:28 < kappabeta> Tell me more about this tracking device.
09:28 < Endovior> The handcuffs are non-decorative
09:29 < kappabeta> The handcuffs are probably air before he leaves the helicopter.
09:29 < Endovior> This is under the category of 'things which it is easy for angels to solve, of course'
09:29 < Aestrix> xD
09:30 < Kel> (did Mark at some point turn into a daevinity angel? also, is there somewhere this can be read?)
09:30 < Endovior> https://weareincontrol.dreamwidth.org/302.html
09:30 < Kel> Thank you!
09:30 < kappabeta> Mark turned into a daevinity angel when he tried to gate to the WoD and exploded!
09:30 < Aestrix> And then he went and persuaded Rae to give him all of his blessings
09:30 < Endovior> That happened off-screen, unfortunately.
09:30 < Aestrix> Yeah
09:30 < kappabeta> Yes.
09:31 < kappabeta> Okay, so with the handcuffs turned into air, is there anything else tracking-device-y on the girl that is detectable by any conceivable means
09:33 < Endovior> Presumably you also get rid of the Guantanamo-issue bag, so no.
09:33 < Teceler> Kel: I am awake now, my computer apparantly declined to go to sleep last night an I didn't notice
09:33 < Endovior> They'll need to cheat with magic to find you.
09:34 < Endovior> They are very cheaty, though.
09:34 < kappabeta> I am definitely getting the impression they are extremely cheaty.
09:34 < Endovior> Also, she's currently sedated; that's a relevant thing you will notice.
09:34 < kappabeta> Yes, she is.
09:34 < kappabeta> Mark noticed that.
09:35 < Teceler> Kel: And apparently I pronouned wrong in the pm, that is what comes of writing it while questionably awake.
09:35 < Kel> I decided to just pretend the pronoun was the correct one?
09:36 < Teceler> that works
09:36 < Teceler> I mean, I know Tyche doesn't particularly care about pronouns, but I feel like Thorn would have used the correct one
09:36 < Endovior> So, er... what's Mark doing next? In response to the grenade and such?
09:36 < Endovior> (read: I'm waiting to be tagged)
09:37 < kappabeta> I'm writing!
09:37 < kappabeta> The grenade is the thing that produced the foam, right?
09:37 < Endovior> I'm impatient
09:37 < Endovior> YEs
09:37 < Endovior> It is a magical thing.
09:37 < kappabeta> if he turns the foam and its grenade into air will that take care of it
09:38 < kappabeta> and if he stuns the woman again will that take care of *her*
09:38 < Kel> Okay! If you want to edit it whenever the PMs are exported, that would work. (If that is a thing that can happen? I'm not sure how the exportation works, either)
09:39 < Endovior> He will notice that the grenade is actually transmuting suff into sticky stuff; the expansion of sticky foam is a magical effect.
09:39 < Teceler> I can, and I will probably also be adding an ooc note about the timing around there and deleting that half-pm, so
09:39 < kappabeta> what are the rough parameters of this magical effect
09:39 < Kel> Okay! :)
09:39 < Aestrix> Adelene inspired me to give stone a new sense thing
09:39 < kappabeta> like, is it targeted or just coming out of the grenade
09:40 < kappabeta> will turning the grenade into air make it stop
09:40 < Endovior> And if he transmutes it all away, the woman will jerkily puppet her body with cyborg bits, and try to set Mark on fire with a flamethrower.
09:40 < Aestrix> It may now tell how things were in the past and how long they were there
09:40 < kappabeta> the woman who has been stunned twice?
09:40 < Endovior> It will try to resist being transmuted for a bit, since it is already doing a transmutation. It will take some effort.
09:40 < Endovior> And the woman will only have been stunned once at this point.
09:41 < kappabeta> she's stunned twice as soon as he has a clear shot, and he has a better idea than she does of when a clear shot is coming because he's the one clearing it
09:42 < Endovior> Noted. She was lining up the flamethrower as her next move anyways, and doesn't care about getting a clear shot.
09:43 < Adelene> <3 @ facet magic ^^
09:43 < Endovior> (She was intending to burn a small hole through the foam, which would leave Mark stuck and on fire, but things aren't working out for team Technocrat today)
09:43 < kappabeta> hee
09:43 < Aestrix> <3
09:43 < kappabeta> And this is Mark being as _emphatically nonlethal as possible_
09:44 < Endovior> Indeedy
09:45 < kappabeta> but that goes out the window as soon as the choice seems to be "kill somebody or the girl gets hurt"
09:45 < kappabeta> ...actually that's a question. Are his pursuers going to be taking care to avoid harming the girl
09:45 < Kel> I'm guessing MWF!Mark is not going to split at this point?
09:46 < Endovior> Yes, actually.
09:46 < kappabeta> he certainly won't be splitting anytime soon
09:46 < Aestrix> Yeah if she gets hurt they have the problem of the reality destroying abomination out for their blood
09:46 < Endovior> Hiding in an underwater fortress will actually inconvenience them, since they won't be able to nuke the place, or use similarly heavy mechanisms.
09:46 < kappabeta> If they take care to avoid harming the girl, he'll take care to avoid harming them.
09:46 < kappabeta> hahahahahaha
09:47 < Endovior> Sending a giant robot to rip the place apart, for instance, is right out, since she might drown.
09:47 < Aestrix> Pfff
09:47 < Endovior> They'll need to call in space marines instead.
09:47 < kappabeta> pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
09:48 < Endovior> Which will seriously irk the New World Order types, since the Void Engineers are always swooping in to take the credit for big operations.
09:48 < Endovior> On account of having shinier toys
09:48 < Aestrix> xD
09:49 < Endovior> brb
09:50 < Endovior> and back
09:53 < Aestrix> Welcome back
09:53 < kappabeta> wb
09:53 < kappabeta> I'm writing Mark Tunnels Into The Bottom Of Lake Superior
09:53 < Aestrix> Well, I need to go in about twenty minutes, so if you have any arcany questions ask them now <3
09:53 < Aestrix> Pfff
09:54 < kappabeta> impregnable fortress is stone and aura, right?
09:54 < Aestrix> Stone, aura, and metal
09:54 < kappabeta> k
09:54 < Aestrix> Metal for finding the points of weakness and shoring them up
09:54 < Endovior> Hmm. Not just 'Mark unfloofs the foam' so I can write about him getting set on fire?
09:54 < kappabeta> hahaha
09:54 < Endovior> (briefly)
09:55 < kappabeta> I got to that point back when it looked like he'd be able to stun the cyborg a second time before she could do anything
09:55 < Aestrix> I think since he's in a rush he can't do some of the fancier things with aura.
09:55 < kappabeta> I can adjust
09:56 < kappabeta> there, tag
09:57 -!- magicphd has quit
09:57 < Aestrix> "Isn't he glad he exploded the first time he tried this" xD
09:57 < Aestrix> That is a great line <3
09:57 -!- magicphd has joined #backstage
09:58 < kappabeta> Am proud.
09:58 < Aestrix> <3
09:58 < kappabeta> okay so like. ~how~
09:58 < kappabeta> does one make an impregnable fortress in a hurry
09:58 < Aestrix> First he makes it via angelhood
09:58 < kappabeta> he would've been practicing before under conditions where he doesn't already control the exact physical composition of his surroundings
09:58 < kappabeta> but yeah
09:59 < Adelene> Turn the water at the edge of his air bubble into a thin shell of stone; expand outward?
09:59 < Aestrix> Then from there, stone craft to make stuff last longer, be more unwilling to change from strange shit hitting it, and be generally stable
09:59 < Endovior> tag
09:59 < kappabeta> He's going *into* the bottom of the lake, so he's working with dirt/rock already
10:00 < Aestrix> Yep
10:00 < Adelene> ah
10:00 < Aestrix> And then metal craft to find the points of weakness in the fortress, and to reinforce the entire thing
10:01 < kappabeta> hmm, can doublestunned cyborg still perceive things at all
10:01 < Adelene> Same principle probably applies, start at the edge of your air and transmute stuff into better stuff. Diamond is an obvious choice.
10:01 < Aestrix> Aura's definitely last here because aura is the one that takes the longest and relies so much on everything else being done first
10:01 < kappabeta> yes
10:02 < Aestrix> Diamond is super good at cutting things but if I recall correctly it's rather brittle, you're likely better off with a carbon weave of some kind of futuristic creation.
10:02 < kappabeta> yeah
10:02 < Aestrix> Brittle when you hit it just the right way, I mean
10:02 < Adelene> mm.
10:03 < Aestrix> But anyway. Once stone and metal are used to make it as strong as possible, THEN he uses the time after that on aura
10:04 < Aestrix> And aura is all funky environmental stuff that I still haven't nailed down because it hasn't come up on screen once yet xD
10:04 < kappabeta> <3
10:04 < Aestrix> I think the most valuable easy aura thing to do is to is to put a top speed possible outside of the fortress.
10:04 < kappabeta> hmm?
10:05 < Aestrix> Prism's got a thing on her apartment that keeps her from getting hurt if she falls, or from things breaking that fall.
10:05 < kappabeta> ooh XD
10:05 < kappabeta> So flamethrower hits Mark at about the same time as second stunner bolt hits cyborg, is cyborg now firmly out of commission
10:06 < kappabeta> he'll probably stun her again anyway
10:06 < Endovior> Approximately, yes.
10:06 < Aestrix> It basically works by going, 'This thing that is going this speed will instead slowly slow down to this much nicer top speed instead of hitting with full force.'
10:06 < kappabeta> hehehe
10:06 < Endovior> She won't be doing anything more in the immediate future, at least.
10:06 < Aestrix> Other easy thing for Mark to do - alarm system
10:07 < kappabeta> heh
10:07 < Kel> So could that aura effect also break things by suddenly decelerating them?
10:08 < Aestrix> Aura isn't really great at suddenly changing stuff, I think it will work to a point but not so much that it will break things by suddenly decelerating them
10:08 < Aestrix> Just because otherwise it would be the most OP craft of all time xD
10:08 < Aestrix> Simon Illyan would be a destroyer of worlds
10:08 < kappabeta> pfffffffffffff
10:09 < Aestrix> (Simon gets boatloads of aura)
10:09 < kappabeta> Crazy amounts of aura.
10:09 < kappabeta> Aura out the wazoo.
10:09 < Aestrix> Not as much as Miles has breath
10:09 < Aestrix> But nothing to sneeze at
10:09 < kappabeta> yeah, illyan's "AURA AURA AURA (song song song) (tiny dregs of everything else)"
10:09 < kappabeta> and Miles is "BREATH BREATH BREATH; SONG, PLANT, CRYSTAL; stone, heat, blood; li'l bit of metal; absolutely no aura whatsoever not even a little tiny bit oh my god."
10:10 < Aestrix> Hee <3
10:10 < Adelene> And assuming Miles doesn't Miles Lurker's invisibility problem, Lurker is "what the heck am I supposed to do with STONE?"
10:10 < Endovior> lol
10:11 < kappabeta> heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
10:11 < Aestrix> Ahahahahaha <3
10:11 < Aestrix> Poor Lurker <3
10:11 < kappabeta> Miles will apply himself vigorously to Milesing Lurker's invisibility problem!
10:11 < Adelene> *chuckle*
10:11 < Aestrix> Anyway, so - all clear on stuff for fortress?
10:11 < Aestrix> Because I have to go really soon xD
10:12 < kappabeta> thiiiiink so
10:12 < kappabeta> I'll handle it somehow
10:12 < Aestrix> Okay
10:12 < Endovior> Bye-ish!
10:12 < kappabeta> So *now* I have a clear path to the bottom of the lake, Endovior?
10:12 < Aestrix> I mean, I'll be back in three hours
10:12 < kappabeta> <3
10:12 < Endovior> And thanks for the clarifications!
10:12 < kappabeta> o/
10:12 < Aestrix> Yep!
10:12 < Aestrix> <3
10:12 < Aestrix> Bye!
10:12 < Endovior> Yes, you will be unmolested for the duration of your time stop now
10:12 < kappabeta> hee
10:12 -!- Aestrix has quit
10:13 < kappabeta> And then gain two MP for the daring escape and do another time stop
10:13 < kappabeta> this may be *slightly* gratuitous, but in a fun way, i think
10:14 < Endovior> Noted
10:14 < Endovior> The point of all the opposition is to let Mark show off, after all
10:14 < Endovior> :P
10:14 < kappabeta> pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
10:15 < kappabeta> he needs *something* to do that plays to his strengths, poor boy
10:15 < kappabeta> something that isn't assassination
10:15 < kappabeta> although he will be tempted to try assassination here
10:16 < Endovior> Mostly, the Technocracy just has a LOT of resources, and will keep escalating until they win.
10:16 < kappabeta> There's a cap on how much they can escalate without endangering Girl, I think? XD
10:17 < Endovior> That's a cap on the ways in which they can escalate, not on how much.
10:17 < kappabeta> hahahahahahaha
10:17 < kappabeta> The rescuer may need to be rescued from the rescuers he was rescuing the rescuee from, in other words
10:17 < Endovior> Possibly.
10:31 -!- linkhyrule5 has joined #backstage
10:36 < Endovior> So... how goes it?
10:36 < kappabeta> writin'
10:37 < Endovior> kk
10:37 < Endovior> long post?
10:37 < kappabeta> trying to figure out what the bottom of lake superior is made of
10:37 < kappabeta> yeah
10:37 < Endovior> XD
10:37 < Endovior> Ah, research
10:38 < Endovior> It's part of the Canadian Shield, so I'd like to say "Granite, with sediment-type stuff on top of it"
10:38 < kappabeta> haha
10:38 < kappabeta> yeah
10:39 < Adelene> "Much of the natural history of the western Lake Superior basin is connected to the thick clay deposits that accumulated here at the end of glaciation 9,500 years ago." - http://www.badriverwatershed.org/index.php/learn/lake-superior-clay-plain
10:39 < kappabeta> ooh
10:39 < Adelene> ^^
10:39 < Endovior> That's useful!
10:39 < kappabeta> thank you ade
10:39 < Adelene> yw ^^
10:42 -!- Kel is now known as Kelaway
10:45 < kappabeta> hmm, tag
10:45 < kappabeta> although I might change the note he leaves if you say it didn't convey his meaning accuraetly
10:45 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: You there?
10:45 < linkhyrule5> Technically yes
10:46 < linkhyrule5> in practice I'm going back to bed in a mniute
10:46 < Teceler> ah
10:46 < Teceler> sleep well
10:46 < linkhyrule5> i can asnwer quick questisons, will ot be writingposts
10:46 < Teceler> I was just about to post
10:46 < Teceler> leaving off with ME having a choice of which thing to look at
10:46 < linkhyrule5> ah, okay
10:46 < linkhyrule5> I can do that
10:46 < linkhyrule5> just not going to make a big post
10:47 < Teceler> okay
10:47 < Teceler> there you go
10:50 < Teceler> if you ask about any of the ones in the middle (not either set we discussed last-night-for-me) I am going to have to make stuff up, but I should have time for that, so
10:52 < linkhyrule5> Sooo... should I give you al ist?
10:53 < linkhyrule5> ME is probably going to look at two from the first category, one from the middle (and maybe one from the false alarms just to see what these people /think/ the exsurgent virus is)
10:53 < linkhyrule5> and one of the one-offs
10:53 < Teceler> if he is planning to go through them methodically, sure
10:54 < Teceler> I would advise that one of them be Xenomorph or Glory so he gets something about the physical stuff
10:55 -!- Kelaway is now known as Kel
10:55 < linkhyrule5> mmkay
10:55 < linkhyrule5> Like, he /is/ taking this sesriously
10:55 < linkhyrule5> even if it's not all that dangerous to /him/ it's doing a pretty good job of ruining a universe
10:55 < Adelene> Kel! Hi!
10:56 < linkhyrule5> so he's finding out as much as he can
10:56 < Adelene> How tall is Dotted Lines, I need to know for reasons.
10:56 < Teceler> yup, that is sensible
10:56 < Endovior> tag
10:56 < linkhyrule5> he's just glib about it, because he's glib about everything
10:56 < Teceler> yeah, that is what is disconcerting my chars
10:56 < linkhyrule5> oh, ENdovior/kappabeta, can I get a link?
10:56 < linkhyrule5> yeah, he acts kind of pretentious but he doesn't /sound/ like he takes much seriously
10:56 < Endovior> https://weareincontrol.dreamwidth.org/302.html
10:56 < kappabeta> http://weareincontrol.dreamwidth.org/302.html
10:56 < linkhyrule5> other than direct threats of harm and whatnot
10:56 < kappabeta> haha yeah
10:56 < linkhyrule5> looooool
10:56 < linkhyrule5> thanks
10:58 < linkhyrule5> posted
10:58 < kappabeta> Mark's message *was* legible, right?
10:59 < Teceler> thanks
10:59 < Endovior> Sure. They just don't trust him.
10:59 < Teceler> sleep well
10:59 < kappabeta> I'm sure they don't XD
10:59 < kappabeta> but he feels it is appropriate to warn them anyway
11:00 < kappabeta> tag
11:00 < Endovior> That's very nice of him.
11:01 < kappabeta> XD
11:06 < Endovior> So, a spaceship full of elite troops in power armour is en-route.
11:06 < Endovior> How far out does your barrier go?
11:06 < kappabeta> hmm, let's say...
11:06 -!- linkhyrule5 has quit
11:07 < Endovior> Also, how large is your fortress on the inside?
11:07 < Kel> Adalene, Dotted Lines is 5'4"
11:07 < kappabeta> I'm going to fiddle with numbers and find out
11:08 < Kel> Oops, sorry, Adelene, he is 5'4"
11:08 < Adelene> Excellent.
11:09 < Kel> What /are/ your reasons?
11:10 < Adelene> Lurker is 4' and Miles is 4'9", Ivan is 6', if Lurker is introduced to Ivan without meeting a human more than 5'6" or so first she's going to find him disconcertingly tall.
11:10 < Adelene> Which will be highly amusing. :3
11:10 < kappabeta> hehehehehe
11:10 < Adelene> yes. :3
11:11 < Endovior> lol
11:11 < Kel> heee!
11:11 < Teceler> XD
11:12 < Kel> His height could be adjusted within ~2 inches for maximum fun if necessary?
11:12 < Adelene> 5'4" definitely means she's going to think he's tall, and will probably set what she thinks is tall in general, but I don't think two inches would make that much difference.
11:13 < Adelene> She's going to be significantly confused about human heights for a while in any case. :D
11:14 < kappabeta> hehe
11:14 < kappabeta> Miles might not even think to point out that he is a Short Human.
11:14 < Adelene> I am assuming that, yes.
11:15 < Thatwasademo> good morning
11:15 < kappabeta> XD
11:15 < Endovior> So, fortress-related stats are...?
11:15 < Endovior> Even approximately?
11:16 < Kel> Morning!
11:17 < Endovior> "morning", sure. It's afternoon already here, get with the program. XP
11:17 < Teceler> good morning
11:17 < Kel> It's still late-morning for me =)
11:18 < kappabeta> Fortress-related stats are: 16 feet interior diameter, 20 feet exterior diameter, top outer edge 30 feet below lake bottom, speed limit bubble extends roughly 30 feet from outer surface in every direction
11:18 < Endovior> Noted.
11:19 < Thatwasademo> hey at least it's *actually morning* here, not like the last time I awoke
11:19 < Thatwasademo> it is legit 9:20
11:19 < Kel> What no it's 10:20 your clock must be incorrect
11:19 < Endovior> The space marines are going to be irritated by the bubble for a bit, and will then proceed to teleport through.
11:19 < Kel> :P
11:19 < Thatwasademo> brb arkham
11:19 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
11:19 -!- magicphd has quit
11:19 < Teceler> everyone, time zones are a thing that exist :P
11:20 < kappabeta> XD
11:20 < Endovior> Yeah, but it's more fun to pretend that they don't. XD
11:20 < Kel> See this is why we all need to move to flat cylinders of soil
11:20 < Teceler> XD
11:21 < kappabeta> pffff
11:22 < kappabeta> brb
11:22 < Kel> Adelene, Janice is 4'5", which might also add to the confusion
11:22 < Adelene> :D
11:26 < Thatwasademo> these dice
11:27 < Endovior> How does Mark feel about lightning?
11:28 * kappabeta kappaplops
11:28 < kappabeta> Mark thinks lightning is fun and exciting.
11:28 < Endovior> Also, where is the rescuee while Mark is meditating?
11:28 < Endovior> Specifically, where is she relative to Mark
11:29 < kappabeta> Right next to him.
11:30 < Endovior> Noted.
11:30 < kappabeta> brb again
11:30 < Endovior> kk
11:30 < Thatwasademo> wait royce is from transistor
11:31 < Thatwasademo> i didn't recognize him because i only know a little about that game
11:34 < Endovior> tag
11:36 -!- Kel has quit
11:36 < kappabeta> hahaha
11:36 < kappabeta> Are they also inconvenienced by the solid clay throughout the barrier's area of effect XD
11:37 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
11:38 < kappabeta> hmm
11:38 < kappabeta> also
11:38 < Endovior> Yes. That was also inconvenient
11:38 < kappabeta> effectiveness of close-range EMP on the power armour guys?
11:38 < Endovior> You could try it, but these guys aren't chumps.
11:39 < kappabeta> haha
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11:40 < kappabeta> aestrix isn't here but I'm pretty sure it's the sort of thing one can do with heat craft
11:40 < Endovior> Go for it
11:41 < Endovior> It's also the sort of thing one can do with Forces
11:41 < kappabeta> heh
11:41 < Endovior> And these guys are all about shooting Deviant mages in the face
11:41 < Endovior> Or, in this case, grappling with stun-weapons, since Mark declines to be properly shot
11:41 < kappabeta> also did they bring any sources of illumination with them
11:42 < Endovior> The suits are very glowy
11:42 < kappabeta> k
11:44 -!- Kel has quit
11:46 < kappabeta> tag
11:46 < kappabeta> brb
11:48 * kappabeta kappaplops
11:49 < Thatwasademo> i'm kind of stumped as to what to do with viridian right now
11:49 < kappabeta> oh?
11:49 < Thatwasademo> he doesn't really have a good reason to go towards nexus besides it being the closest dimension
11:50 < kappabeta> heh
11:50 < Thatwasademo> then again; maybe he doesn't need one?
11:50 < Endovior> For reference, the power armour will decline to be transmuted, on the grounds that it is a major magic item.
11:50 < kappabeta> I'm not sure that things
11:51 < Endovior> Primium declines to be manipulated except with Prime effects.
11:51 < Endovior> Hence, the Technocracy bases a lot of their tech on it.
11:51 < Endovior> Shame they need to kill mages and/or blend up magical scenery to get more.
11:52 < Endovior> You can get the device, though; it's not that expensive.
11:52 < Thatwasademo> that sounds somewhat unsettling
11:52 < Endovior> Yeah, it kind of is.
11:53 < Endovior> Bad things happen to Deviant mages who aren't seen as worth converting.
11:53 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
11:54 -!- kappabeta has quit
11:54 < Endovior> WoD-magic, in general, is good at interactions with other magics. It considers Angelic power to be an OMGHAX-level Matter effect.
11:58 < Kel> Kappabeta asked me to inform you that mibbit is being a pain and he's having connection troubles
11:59 -!- PDV has quit
11:59 < Kel> (which is also a problem I've been having)
11:59 < Endovior> Alas
11:59 -!- kappabeta has joined #backstage
11:59 < Endovior> o/
11:59 < kappabeta> i return!
12:00 < Kel> Welcome back!
12:00 < kappabeta> what the hell was i talking about
12:00 < Endovior> What did you last see?
12:00 < Kel> I think Heat arcany EMPs?
12:00 < kappabeta> I have the memory of a goldfish and no logs.
12:00 < Endovior> I was mentioning that you can't poof the power armour to air, because it each example is a major magic item.
12:00 < kappabeta> I think I replied to that
12:01 < Endovior> You were cut off
12:01 < kappabeta> did my reply get killed by whatever happened to my connection?
12:01 < Endovior> Yes
12:01 < kappabeta> okay
12:01 < Endovior> Primium is a material which will decline to be created by demons, or destroyed by angels; it is generally only malleable to Prime effects.
12:02 < Endovior> WoD-magic, in general, treats Angel power as an OMGHAX-level Matter effect.
12:02 < kappabeta> ah, so it's not just generic "major magic item" status
12:02 < kappabeta> it's a specific thing?
12:02 < kappabeta> brb
12:02 < Endovior> It is
12:03 < Endovior> But magic items aren't 'major' in setting without being made of Primium (or infused with Tass, or similar names for the same-ish thing).
12:03 < kappabeta> okay so I definitely need to revise
12:03 < Endovior> Minor enchantment stuffs are a different story.
12:04 < Endovior> So yeah, you make an attempt to poof stuff, and it nopes at you
12:04 < kappabeta> but the question of what I revise *to* is less obvious
12:04 < Endovior> And then three space marines attempt to stun and grapple you with lightning-shooting power gauntlets.
12:05 < Endovior> That's also a thing.
12:06 < Endovior> For reference, you might, with some effort, be able to reshape Primium, because OMGHAX, but not destroy it outright. And probably not in combat time, because it does not like to change its form.
12:06 < kappabeta> since my assumption that everything present was about equally transmutable didn
12:06 < kappabeta> 't pan out, I now need to know what is and what isn't
12:06 < kappabeta> metal craft senses are likely to give Mark a good idea of this
12:06 < kappabeta> also: does this power armour Run On Some Form Of Electricity
12:06 < kappabeta> which Mark can fuck with using heat craft even if the EMP technique in particular doesn't fly
12:06 < kappabeta> brb again, i have a pizza in the oven that is taking longer to cook than the package claimed
12:07 < Endovior> kk
12:07 < kappabeta> huh i think there might be connection lag going on
12:07 < Endovior> There is
12:07 < Endovior> You posted, like, six posts in a second
12:08 < Endovior> From my perspective
12:08 < kappabeta> ok so I do not think Mark is going to try to poof the magically invulnerable material, because he has access to information I didn't when I wrote that tag
12:08 < kappabeta> is any of their equipment *not* magically invulnerable
12:09 < Endovior> The power armour pretends to run on electricity, but in fact runs on magic that mimics electricity
12:09 < kappabeta> pizza again
12:09 < Endovior> The mysterious device is not invulnerable, and there are various gadgets on the person of the marines that are similarly vulnerable.
12:09 < Endovior> The armour itself is invulnerable.
12:10 < Endovior> The marines inside are not
12:10 -!- Kel is now known as Kelaway
12:10 < kappabeta> Pizza!
12:11 < kappabeta> I am not at all sure whether heat craft can mess with fake electricity, but I suspect not
12:12 < kappabeta> so the armour contains marines. does it also contain, like, air
12:12 < Endovior> If you concentrate and poke, you might notice that there are connections leading from the bodies of the marines to the armour (they are all cyborgs, to some degree). Their cybernetic connections to their armour is not invulnerable, but you'll need to concentrate to target it.
12:13 < kappabeta> hee
12:13 < Endovior> And yes, the armour also contains air.
12:13 -!- sonatagreen has joined #backstage
12:13 < sonatagreen> Kel is Thorn, right?
12:13 < Endovior> You won't be able to get more than one marine at a time with that particular trick
12:13 < kappabeta> how much empty space is there? if he turned most of that air to, like, aluminum, would that inconvenience them drastically
12:13 < Endovior> It is fairly precise (as opposed to, say, poofing the marines into air).
12:14 < Teceler> sonatagreen: no, I run Thorn
12:14 < Endovior> Not a whole lot of empty space.
12:14 < kappabeta> heh
12:14 < sonatagreen> oh OK thanks
12:14 < Teceler> why?
12:15 < sonatagreen> wanted to attribute you for helping reconstruct the logs
12:15 < Teceler> ah
12:15 < Endovior> Uh... angel power does conservation of mass, right?
12:16 < Teceler> Kel had trouble getting hers out of the spreadsheet they were apparently in
12:16 < sonatagreen> I don't think so, you could turn a cube of lead into air
12:16 < Endovior> I don't think there's enough air handy to work with unless you cut off their breathing systems
12:16 < sonatagreen> I think it's more like conservation of volume
12:16 < sonatagreen> but turning air into things is probably really hard because it doesn't hold still for you
12:16 < Endovior> Also, that
12:17 < sonatagreen> was my impression
12:17 < kappabeta> hahaha
12:17 < sonatagreen> I forget her name but Sherlock the prime of air from Quinn could do it
12:18 < kappabeta> hee
12:18 < sonatagreen> (I'm guessing, I don't run either Quinn or Daevinity)
12:18 < kappabeta> Sarelle
12:22 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
12:22 * Eva waves
12:23 < Endovior> o/
12:23 < Teceler> hello
12:23 < kappabeta> hahaha mark is having a hard time coming up with nonlethal measures here
12:23 < Endovior> He does not, in fact, have much time to think.
12:23 < Teceler> turn the air in the helmets into sleeping gas? Or is that too fiddly?
12:24 < kappabeta> He has nonzero time to think, which means *I* should keep trying
12:24 < Endovior> These guys are fast, coordinated, and professional
12:24 < kappabeta> because Mark thinks faster than I do
12:25 < Endovior> kk
12:25 -!- Sky has quit
12:26 < kappabeta> *ponder*
12:26 < kappabeta> Like, sleeping gas is too fiddly
12:26 < sonatagreen> maybe you should declare a particular think-faster ratio
12:26 < kappabeta> what?
12:27 < Adelene> Like if Mark gets 10 seconds you get 20 minutes, or something.
12:27 < sonatagreen> like, "when Mark has X time to think, I have X*N time to think", and declare the value of N
12:27 < Adelene> That doesn't account for the bit where Mark would have been thinking of things ahead of time and you have a life, tho.
12:27 < kappabeta> Yes
12:27 < Endovior> That is a neat idea
12:27 < sonatagreen> true
12:28 < kappabeta> That and also I am cognitively disabled enough that any given 20 minutes of me-time could amount to wildly different amounts of Mark-time depending on how brain I am and whether or not the right thing just happens to occur to me
12:28 < Teceler> well, at the very least he can wreck any of their (non-life-supporting) equipment that is not indestructible, which should inconvenience them at least somewhat and give him more time
12:29 < sonatagreen> I mean, thinking of the right thing is inherently high-variance, though Mark is a sherlock so maybe less so for him
12:29 < kappabeta> yes
12:29 < Endovior> Or, for that matter, he could inflict crippling-but-nonlethal injuries
12:29 < kappabeta> hahahahahaha
12:30 < Endovior> Like, removing arms
12:30 < Teceler> or if he can do more fine control, damaging tendons (where those aren't cyberneticized). I hear those are important for moving.
12:30 < kappabeta> hee
12:31 < kappabeta> okay, I *think* he's pressed enough to escalate to "serious but not immediately-lethal damage"
12:31 < Eva> is there a place where I can read this thing that is being written?
12:31 < Endovior> https://weareincontrol.dreamwidth.org/302.html
12:31 < Teceler> angel-powers would probably help with the bleeding out issue there too
12:32 < kappabeta> XD
12:32 < Endovior> brb
12:33 < Teceler> so he wouldn't have to worry quite as much about some kinds of non-immediate-lethality
12:37 < Eva> My first instinct would be 'sabotage the power armor' but it's magic isn't it
12:37 < kappabeta> yes
12:37 < kappabeta> it is so magic
12:37 < kappabeta> it is too magic
12:37 < kappabeta> XD
12:37 < kappabeta> mark is displeased by how magic it is
12:38 < kappabeta> Also, it occurs to me that like, the interior of this bubble is rather sharply curved
12:38 < kappabeta> and the footing is very poor
12:38 < Eva> Told you you should have brought Astra.
12:38 < Eva> It's fun to have someone along who can go "I disbelieve" at anything.
12:38 < kappabeta> if he'd brought astra there would be an interdimensional war going on! XD
12:39 < kappabeta> This is at most an interdimensional skirmish.
12:39 < Eva> lol ok
12:39 < kappabeta> XDDDDD
12:40 < Eva> Oh by the way, I was reading nobilis again recently and there's an excerpt I want to share, just to get across its power level
12:41 < Endovior> There would be more threatening things going on if Astra was here
12:42 < Endovior> Like, you'd be dealing with Evangelions instead of space marines.
12:42 < Eva> "Here’s an example Gift to build using this system."
12:43 < Eva> Let’s say that you want your character to be immortal.
12:43 < kappabeta> endovior: I am not sure there's really enough room for as many people as are in this bubble
12:43 -!- PDV has joined #backstage
12:43 < kappabeta> Like, it's a sphere, and there is only so much clay on the floor
12:43 -!- PDV has quit
12:44 < kappabeta> some people will be standing on sharply curved surfaces
12:44 < kappabeta> should I assume they can handle that
12:44 < Endovior> Yep
12:44 < Endovior> Gravity is optional
12:44 < Eva> Not the passive, "I can't die" sort of immortality, or even the "I'm really good at not dying" sort, since those are better handled through Bonds and Afflictions, but the active "Whatever it is, I can take it. Reflexively. Shrug it off. And just keep on coming." kind of immortality.
12:44 < Eva> The kind that lets you declare, “I defend.” against any sort of attack.
12:44 < kappabeta> tag
12:45 < Endovior> Also, I just realized I was thinking of a 16-foot radius instead of a 16-foot diameter. So yeah, crowded.
12:45 < kappabeta> Yes.
12:46 < Eva> The idea is that something’s about to happen to you. And maybe it's just a nuke or a knife. Or maybe it's something subtle and clever that you'd have a hard time defending against. But that doesn't matter. Your active immortality kicks in. It steps up to the plate and says "I defend (You)." (Major preservation of the Self)
12:46 < Eva> And you can smile at the GM, and say "That bad thing isn't going to happen."
12:47 < Eva> This has a base cost of 6 character points.
12:47 < kappabeta> how do... things... happen
12:47 < kappabeta> in this system
12:47 < kappabeta> at all
12:47 < kappabeta> XD
12:47 < Eva> You get 25 character points.
12:48 < Eva> Answer: Your Gift doesn't have Strike, so it can be out-miracled.
12:50 < Eva> As the manual says: "if someone explodes a small sun in front of your face, you might have to spend some MP or take a moment’s breather to recover. "
12:51 < Endovior> Incidentally, what was the thing that Nexus stunners do to daeva that takes them out?
12:51 < Eva> "you’ve got this nagging fear that maybe a universe-ending incident might be too much to take."
12:51 < Endovior> It's not something simple like a tazer, but...
12:51 < Eva> (But these things are not assured to kill you, in Nobilis.)
12:51 < kappabeta> The thing that Nexus stunners do to daeva is "be plot-interesting for me and Alicorn"
12:51 < Endovior> Ah
12:52 < Endovior> That's unhelpful.
12:52 < Endovior> lol
12:52 < kappabeta> XD
12:52 < kappabeta> on a more watsonian level, they have some really specific interference pattern
12:52 < kappabeta> but like
12:52 < kappabeta> if somebody manages to knock Mark out here it's pretty much game over, which is much _less_ plot-interesting, so
12:53 < Endovior> Gotcha. Unlikely to be replicated by accident, or by incapacitation methods intended for general-purpose.
12:53 < kappabeta> yeah
12:53 < Endovior> tag
12:53 < sonatagreen> clarifications re: dungeon magic --
12:53 -!- Sky has joined #backstage
12:54 < sonatagreen> unless you've already contradicted this, (1) you can't recover MP from inside of a Time Stop
12:54 < sonatagreen> and (2) gaining max mp does not cause a corresponding gain of current MP
12:54 < kappabeta> oh
12:54 < kappabeta> I have contradicted (2), because at the time I could've sworn I remembered the opposite having been established
12:54 < sonatagreen> but if you have contradicted that, that's fine
12:54 < sonatagreen> oh
12:54 < kappabeta> at some point in the enormous thread
12:55 < sonatagreen> ok then
12:55 < sonatagreen> it's possible I did establish the opposite
12:55 < kappabeta> Like, I remembered (and I may have remembered falsely) that when you gain max MP it's like leveling up, you get a refill
12:55 < kappabeta> and that's what I put down
12:55 < sonatagreen> ok
12:57 < kappabeta> (1) holds though, Mark hasn't even tried it
12:58 < kappabeta> he had better things to do with his stopped time
12:58 < kappabeta> XD
12:58 < kappabeta> tag
13:06 < Endovior> tag
13:06 < Endovior> The devices in question are not invulnerale
13:06 < Endovior> *invulnerable
13:07 < kappabeta> tag
13:07 < Endovior> hexchat doesn't spellcheck :P
13:10 < Endovior> tag
13:12 < kappabeta> tag
13:14 < Thatwasademo> hexchat does spellcheck for me?
13:15 < Endovior> Do you have any particular priority order?
13:15 < Endovior> For your vanishings?
13:15 < kappabeta> for the airing of the things?
13:15 < Endovior> yes
13:15 < kappabeta> I mean, I don't know anything about any of the things
13:15 < Endovior> True.
13:15 < kappabeta> so I don't know what observable features they have by which Mark might be prioritizing
13:16 < Endovior> Also, there's a lot of finicky cybernetic bits which will take significantly longer to vanish, if you're wanting to be precise.
13:16 < Endovior> External bits are easier to get, being larger and more obvious. And less likely to be vitally-important, at that.
13:16 < kappabeta> He's focusing on faster things before slower things, so external first, finicky cybernetic bits afterward.
13:17 < Endovior> Got it.
13:21 < Endovior> tag
13:21 < kappabeta> why the hell did he start crying blood
13:21 < kappabeta> also what the hell did they do
13:22 < Endovior> You saw them teleport in not too long ago. Educated guess says...
13:22 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
13:22 < kappabeta> i mean but like
13:22 < kappabeta> that does not explain the weeping blood?
13:22 < Endovior> Paradox
13:23 < Endovior> Doing overt magic without the right props is hazardous
13:23 < kappabeta> hahahaha
13:23 < Endovior> Guess what you've been wrecking for them?
13:23 < kappabeta> the right props?
13:23 < Endovior> Yep
13:23 < Endovior> So more difficult and dangerous
13:24 < Endovior> Sucks to be them; they lack a ride home now.
13:24 < kappabeta> hmmmmm
13:24 < Endovior> Because the relevant engineer will probably die if he tries that stunt again
13:24 < kappabeta> hahahahahahaha
13:25 < kappabeta> I'm trying to think, here.
13:25 < Endovior> Interrogation?
13:25 < kappabeta> pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
13:26 < kappabeta> have the lightning gauntlet people given up, by the way
13:26 < Endovior> They literally can't.
13:26 < kappabeta> they can't?
13:26 < Endovior> They are frozen in place.
13:26 < Endovior> You metal-ized their limbs
13:27 < kappabeta> I metalized their legs! I specifically let them keep their arms
13:27 < kappabeta> so that if they chose to quit shocking Mark, that option would remain available to them
13:27 < Endovior> Oh. Then they won't. You seem to not like it. They're also ineffectually trying to choke/crush you
13:27 < kappabeta> bwahahahahahaha
13:27 < Thatwasademo> <kappabeta> I metalized their legs! I specifically let them keep their arms - I need a quote repository
13:27 < kappabeta> hahahahahahahaha
13:27 < kappabeta> <3
13:28 < kappabeta> now i'm giggling too hard to write
13:28 < kappabeta> :D
13:29 < kappabeta> oh by the way, what happens if Mark calls in Esthfora-based mind protection for inhiding
13:30 < Endovior> Cyborg strength sufficient to bend iron bars is doing jack to Daeva invulnerability, it's just somewhat unpleasant.
13:30 < kappabeta> XDDDDDDDDDDD
13:30 < Endovior> Good question.
13:31 < Endovior> She's not active right now, though, and she's also physically not-here.
13:31 < kappabeta> hmm?
13:31 < Endovior> Aforementioned teleportation?
13:31 < kappabeta> I didn't know who the "she" in your sentence was
13:31 < Endovior> I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish
13:31 < Endovior> inhiding
13:32 < Adelene> I would not expect physical location to be a problem for Esthfora in any sense.
13:32 < Adelene> Except *maybe* the Gauntlet, and even that I'd be a little surprised.
13:32 < kappabeta> what Mark would be trying to accomplish by protecting inhiding is to prevent the nonconsensual mental alteration that he is trying to rescue her from
13:33 < Endovior> Hmm.
13:34 < Endovior> Well, there's the Gauntlet being in the way, which is a thing, and there's also the fact that the relevant effects aren't going through the forum, which limits her access.
13:34 < kappabeta> she is sufficiently well-identified for Esthfora's purposes, but Esthfora will check would-she-consent-to-this-protection-if-she-were-awake-to-do-so before applying it
13:34 < Endovior> Noted
13:35 < kappabeta> and I don't know how the results of that check will come out
13:35 < Endovior> True.
13:35 < Endovior> Also, the NWO's indoctrination techniques don't ALL involve scary mind-control lasers.
13:35 < kappabeta> what do they involve instead
13:36 < Endovior> Magically-enhanced social-fu, of the "Boost my charisma score to a stupid number" variety
13:37 < Endovior> Followed by approximately-mundane social interaction, as with an extremely talented manipulator
13:38 < kappabeta> I thiiiink magically high charisma gets rainbowed out if there is a sufficient degree of "the results of this interaction will be Bad News" going on. which there certainly seems to be
13:38 < kappabeta> like, very much dependent on what the protected person would consider Bad News
13:38 < Endovior> Plus, y'know, stuff on the level of figuring out the relevant pressure points in a person's psyche, and applying leverage.
13:39 < Endovior> And it's basically just a question of how subtle do they need to be to not trigger wards. Given enough time, Stockholm Syndrome and such will be a factor.
13:39 < sonatagreen> to clarify, the effects of the charisma are not actually magical, right?
13:39 < Endovior> Yep
13:39 < Endovior> It's just self-buffs
13:39 < Endovior> That make them more able to do mundane things
13:39 < kappabeta> hmm, it's not like...
13:40 < sonatagreen> it's just ordinary charisma, it's just that the reason they're so good at persuasion happens to have a magical backstory
13:40 < Endovior> Basically
13:40 < Endovior> yeah
13:40 < kappabeta> this kind of mental protection is much more about preventing things the protected person would not want, than about denying access to Magical Things
13:41 < Endovior> This kind of attack involves giving the person opportunities to change what they want of their own 'free will'.
13:42 < Endovior> Say, by presenting effective propaganda to a naive teenaged girl
13:42 < Endovior> And presenting themselves as the good guys
13:42 -!- Kelaway has quit
13:42 < Endovior> Who are, in truth, one of the more serious opponents vampire-kind has in the world
13:42 < kappabeta> hahahaha
13:42 < Endovior> Since that's a hot-button issue
13:43 < kappabeta> I mean, I don't know a whole lot about this particular teenage girl
13:44 < Endovior> I'm sort of wondering why Mark is consenting to be restrained, really.
13:44 < kappabeta> as opposed to doing what
13:44 -!- linkhyrule5 has joined #backstage
13:44 < Endovior> ...er, hang on.
13:45 < Endovior> His magical senses have some range on them, yeah?
13:45 < kappabeta> Yes
13:45 < Endovior> So he's able to notice the nearby spaceship?
13:45 < kappabeta> yes
13:45 < Endovior> And, say, count the number of people aboard?
13:45 < kappabeta> is girl spaceship?
13:45 < Endovior> Yes. Spaceship leave.
13:46 < kappabeta> what *I'm* mainly wondering is whether or not I screwed up badly enough that I should ask for a retake when I didn't notice the significance of the muttering person
13:46 < Endovior> Teleportation is dangerous without appropriate facilities, so it needs to be really short-ranged.
13:46 < linkhyrule5> Fyi, Endovior, kappabeta - if I get the rough timeline right:
13:46 < Endovior> You're dealing with a bunch of magicians who wear the clothing of scientists.
13:47 < Endovior> ?
13:47 < linkhyrule5> In the nearish future, probably after the rescue but before Mark gets back to Nexus, ME is going to get fed up with the Gauntlet and do his first import of an alpha fork into the WoD
13:47 < linkhyrule5> He'll start outside the Gauntlet, but his goal is to be
13:47 < linkhyrule5> well
13:47 < linkhyrule5> basically, Cthulhu
13:47 < linkhyrule5> get into the Gauntlet and summon the rest of himself into the universe
13:47 < Teceler> ...oh /dear/ XD
13:47 < Endovior> kk
13:48 < kappabeta> I'm having a subpar brain day and Mark, uh, doesn't get those
13:48 < Endovior> There will be a variety of large-scale responses to that, since it's not at all a unique sort of plot.
13:48 < linkhyrule5> I figured as much
13:48 < linkhyrule5> ME is significantly more subtle and human than most such plots, though
13:49 < MTC> On the subject of other things Mark could have done rather than be restrained: is there a reason he couldn’t transmute their arms to something flimsy enough that he can just push them away (yes, the power armor is unchangeable, but there’s presumably no reason he couldn’t forcibly move it if what’s inside was no longer resisting)?
13:49 < linkhyrule5> also he can totally make an alliance with Threat Null to get in and then betray them (and then betray their betrayal (and then counter their betrayl of his preemptive betrayal)
13:49 < kappabeta> endovior, thoughts? I don't want to be rude by demanding a retake every time my character screws up, but while Mark is a fallible (recently im)mortal, he is a hell of a lot less fallible than I am
13:50 < kappabeta> and I feel like I did him a disservice
13:51 < Endovior> I'm inclined to envision that, given that angelic magic is a factor of sensory range, and the ship is still close enough taht you can notice this, you could probably figure out some way to wreck it.
13:51 < kappabeta> ?
13:52 < Endovior> Or, like, prevent it from leaving. It can't move through solid objects, for instance.
13:52 < kappabeta> maybe i didn't say thing right
13:53 < Adelene> Girl *just* teleported. Mark can know she's on the ship and stop the ship. No need for a do-over, probably.
13:53 < Adelene> (I think not recognizing strange magic in action isn't an implausible mistake.)
13:54 < kappabeta> hmm
13:54 < Endovior> That's more or less my point. Mark doesn't know too much about how these guys' magic system works, after all
13:54 < Endovior> Not the right kind of magic senses
13:54 < kappabeta> I still feel like "let the muttering guy keep muttering unobstructed for a couple of minutes" is... less... thing
13:55 < Endovior> What else would you have had in mind?
13:55 -!- Sky has quit
13:55 < kappabeta> although I guess that wasn't a mistake-that-I-made so much as a lack of specificity re: how long Mark would continue messing with their equipment in the presence of Muttering Guy, Still Muttering
13:55 < kappabeta> probably not a hundred and twenty seconds
13:55 < Endovior> That is legitimately fair enough.
13:56 < Endovior> Muttering guy keeps muttering, while you do what?
13:56 < kappabeta> I'm think
13:56 < Endovior> I can retake that far, certainly.
13:56 -!- Aestrix has joined #backstage
13:56 < Endovior> After all, you are aware that these are magicians.
13:56 < kappabeta> i'm not very think, I will get apple juice and then I will more think.
13:56 * Aestrix leans in
13:56 < kappabeta> <3
13:56 < Aestrix> <3
13:56 < Endovior> Whatever their scientific costumes
13:57 < Adelene> *boops Aestrix' nose*
13:57 < Endovior> lol
13:57 < Aestrix> Eeep!
13:57 < Adelene> ^^
13:57 < Aestrix> <3
13:57 < Thatwasademo> hi!
13:57 < Aestrix> Hi!
13:58 < Thatwasademo> how have you been enjoying arkham so far
13:58 < Adelene> Hey, question, not that it's *necessarily* going to come up in the relevant timeframe or in a relevant way: How tall is Rae's human form?
13:58 < kappabeta> <3<3<3
13:58 < kappabeta> apple juice is has, i more think now
13:58 < Thatwasademo> yay
13:58 < Aestrix> Uhh
13:58 < Aestrix> For some reason I think he towers over people/
13:58 < Aestrix> So pretty tall.
13:58 < Aestrix> 6'3"?
13:58 < Adelene> Ok.
13:58 < Adelene> *nod*
13:58 < Endovior> So, a wizard is chanting in your vicinity. He may be casting a spell. What do?
13:58 < Thatwasademo> tall makes sense for a desert god
13:59 < kappabeta> I think there is probably a way for Mark to get out of lightning glove people that I haven't thought of yet because my brain is spotty
13:59 < Aestrix> I don't think particularly muscular, though. Athletic build, definitely not body builder.
13:59 < Thatwasademo> <Endovior> So, a wizard is chanting in your vicinity. He may be casting a spell. What do? - another one for the quote repository
13:59 < kappabeta> XD
13:59 < Aestrix> Not a bean pole, alas.
13:59 < Adelene> *nod*
13:59 < Endovior> :D
13:59 < linkhyrule5> Helium is a funny idea and may also screw with their comrephension
13:59 < Aestrix> Oh oh and I have a facecast for him I just need to think of an account name
13:59 < kappabeta> pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
14:00 < Adelene> It is mostly relevant because Lurker will have one reaction to Ivan if she gets an accurate idea of the normal range of human heights, and another reaction entirely if she only meets the people I'm expecting her to meet first.
14:00 < Adelene> Rae might not matter either way, because god.
14:00 < Aestrix> Mhm
14:00 < Aestrix> Does she think Ivan is a giant? xD
14:00 < kappabeta> mark probably aired all the vulnerable equipment he could get at in ten seconds or so, which is probably a significant amount if he's prioritizing strictly for how easily he can air stuff, but by the same token probably won't be the critical shit
14:01 < Aestrix> Because that's hilarious if she does
14:01 < Endovior> Also, I re-tagged
14:01 < Adelene> More or less, yep ^^
14:01 < Aestrix> Hee <3
14:01 < Adelene> She's 4' nothing. Her meeting him is equivalent to 5'4" me meeting someone 8' tall.
14:02 < Aestrix> Heee
14:02 < Endovior> eep!
14:02 < kappabeta> haha
14:02 < Aestrix> Rae, meanwhile ~is a giant~
14:02 -!- sonatagreen has quit
14:02 < Adelene> Yes, but he's a god and also nice, so he's allowed. ^^
14:02 < Aestrix> <3
14:02 < Adelene> Ivan? Less so, on the allowedness. ^^
14:02 < kappabeta> <3
14:03 < Aestrix> If he's aware that she is bothered by tall people he will sincerely lean down to her level xD
14:03 < Aestrix> Rae, I mean.
14:03 < Adelene> *nod*
14:03 < Aestrix> Or sit down or something.
14:03 < Aestrix> Possibly floating in the air if he doesn't have a chair.
14:04 < Adelene> He might become aware before meeting her, Miles will figure it out in pretty short order and might tell him. But she's genuinely not going to be bothered either way, she *knows* Rae, and also has a very different set of expectations when it comes to gods.
14:04 < Aestrix> Hee
14:04 < kappabeta> oh hey aestrix
14:04 < kappabeta> are there any arcane senses that point at air composition?
14:04 < Aestrix> Hmmm
14:06 -!- sonatagreen has joined #backstage
14:06 < Aestrix> Not really, no. I think you could maybe get by with stone/breath/aura all together though
14:07 < kappabeta> would blood craft tell you if you and/or nearby people were getting sufficient oxygen
14:07 < Aestrix> Blood craft could tell you if you were getting sufficient oxygen, you could tell with other people if you were touching them or were really good at blood craft and have been practicing at it
14:07 < kappabeta> Mark is going to try a thing XD
14:08 < Aestrix> Oh goodness, a ~thing~
14:08 < sonatagreen> now I'm imagining Lurker meeting Rae first and later assuming Ivan is a god
14:08 < Endovior> lol
14:08 < Adelene> Mark is a Sherlock, he should be able to get a pretty decent idea of someone's oxygenation mundanely if he can see their face or fingernails.
14:08 < sonatagreen> kobold height, human height, god height
14:08 < kappabeta> heh
14:08 < Adelene> oh my goodness
14:08 < Adelene> That's nearly as good.
14:09 < kappabeta> dfdafadffdggg XD
14:09 < Endovior> wow
14:09 < Endovior> that's just...
14:09 < Aestrix> Heeeee
14:09 * Eva hums.
14:09 < Adelene> I mean, I still want to let Miles do the thing he gets to do if she meets Ivan first, but, like.
14:09 < Endovior> much too funny.
14:10 < kappabeta> the thing?
14:10 * Eva tried to build a "Greater Destruction of Annoyances" power for Astra but it was too expensive.
14:10 < Endovior> The thing
14:10 < kappabeta> pffffff
14:10 * Eva blinks.
14:10 < Endovior> <sonatagreen> kobold height, human height, god height
14:10 < Adelene> Maybe I'll do another kobold character sometime, I'm pretty sure Lurker is going to at least consider importing a small and sufficiently well-behaved tribe to help take care of her humans. :)
14:10 * Eva realizes Astra is an Excrucian and gets more than 25 points.
14:10 < kappabeta> hee
14:10 < Aestrix> Heee
14:10 < kappabeta> help take care of her humans!
14:10 < kappabeta> her humans require care. ^^
14:10 < Aestrix> That is so cute xDE
14:11 < Adelene> ^^
14:11 < Teceler> too much adorable
14:11 < Adelene> At the rate Leaf is going Lurker is going to have her hands full nearly immediately, yes. ^^
14:11 < Endovior> I inherently picture kobolds as cutebolds, so... yeah
14:11 < Aestrix> I'm imagining her vaguely annoyed with humans and how they need to be taken care of
14:11 < Adelene> Yes. ^^
14:11 < Aestrix> <3
14:12 < kappabeta> tag
14:12 < Aestrix> Inkspot's in pretty good condition, but then she's not human :P
14:12 < kappabeta> inert gas asphyxiation is some scary shit you guys
14:12 < kappabeta> XD
14:13 < Adelene> I would be somewhat surprised if Inkspot's social circle meets Lurker's standards for supportiveness. *chuckle*
14:13 < Aestrix> Hee
14:13 < Aestrix> I mean she has friends, one of which is a Nadia and is pretty happy to be her friendly minion as long as she's not a jerk to him
14:13 < Aestrix> But yeah
14:13 < Aestrix> Probably not
14:14 < Adelene> ^^
14:15 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
14:15 < Endovior> tag
14:15 < kappabeta> he coughs?
14:15 < Endovior> He does
14:15 < kappabeta> that is an unexpected reaction to a lungful of nitrogen
14:16 -!- sonatagreen has quit
14:17 -!- Kel has quit
14:17 < Endovior> Like, a quick cough, to expel unwanted lung-contents, followed by normal-ish inhalation.
14:18 < kappabeta> aha
14:19 < Endovior> This is clearly an underreaction, and he does it anyways.
14:19 < kappabeta> Does he have things to tell him that nitrogen?
14:20 < Endovior> He is very cyborg
14:20 < kappabeta> okay
14:20 < Endovior> Including various organ-y bits
14:23 < kappabeta> hmm ok so this power armour, how, like, _sealed_ is it
14:24 < Endovior> Very. It is effectively a space suit.
14:24 < Endovior> And holds up to vacuum and pressure equally well
14:24 < kappabeta> haha
14:24 < kappabeta> what's its air supply like?
14:25 < Endovior> ~12 hours, implausibly.
14:26 < kappabeta> I'm thinking more how does it function
14:26 < kappabeta> and if, say, you start transmuting air to water inside the suit
14:26 < Endovior> There is an air tank at some point, if that's your question.
14:26 < kappabeta> okay
14:26 < kappabeta> XD
14:27 < kappabeta> As opposed to some kind of magical gas exchange that would robustly handle being flooded
14:27 < kappabeta> excellent
14:27 < Endovior> There are probably filters or something, but it doesn't magic oxygen into existence, no
14:27 < kappabeta> tag
14:28 < kappabeta> I'm very entertained by how, like, being choked/shocked by the lightning gauntlet guys is so inconsequential to Mark that he isn't even bothering to do anything about it
14:28 < kappabeta> he probably will eventually though
14:28 < Aestrix> xD
14:30 < Endovior> tag
14:30 < Endovior> hang on, actually
14:31 < Endovior> Okay, I mentioned that explicitly
14:31 < Endovior> It seemed worthy of note
14:32 < kappabeta> ahahahahaha
14:32 < kappabeta> :D
14:32 < kappabeta> yes
14:33 < kappabeta> tag
14:38 < Endovior> tag
14:41 < kappabeta> tag
14:44 < Endovior> tag
14:44 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
14:45 < kappabeta> department of redundancy department?
14:45 < Aestrix> Hello <3
14:45 < Kel> Hi!
14:45 < Endovior> ?
14:45 < kappabeta> "Very slowly, and at a relatively slow rate"
14:45 < Kel> I just joined again? I think?
14:45 < Endovior> gah!
14:45 < Endovior> I fix
14:46 < kappabeta> k
14:46 < Teceler> you popped up before, and then vanished, but
14:46 < Endovior> fixed
14:46 < Endovior> :P
14:47 < Kel> Yeah, I came back but then I had too many windows and tabs with complicated stuff open and my computer stopped responding
14:47 < Kel> so I had to restart it
14:47 < Aestrix> Aha
14:47 < Teceler> silly computers
14:47 < Teceler> getting crashed by tabs
14:48 < Kel> yes
14:48 < Kel> I am writing a reply to Thorn right now
14:48 < Teceler> :)
14:49 -!- Eva has quit
14:52 < kappabeta> tag
14:52 < Endovior> Also; we've been going for ~6 hours at this point, so I am going to need to break for supper-type things soon-ish.
14:52 < kappabeta> sense
14:52 < Endovior> I'll tag back, then be off for a bit
14:52 < kappabeta> k
14:53 < Aestrix> Rae, in the background: "HA! I am ENTIRELY JUSTIFIED in the flexibility blessing!"
14:53 < kappabeta> yup
14:53 < Adelene> Hee ^^
14:54 < Endovior> tag
14:54 < Aestrix> He already felt entirely justified in it, but it's nice to see it have use in text
14:54 < Adelene> That's probably going to be what Lurker takes if she's offered one. I'll have to look over the list again tho.
14:54 < kappabeta> heee
14:54 < Endovior> back in an hour or two
14:54 < Kel> Bye!
14:54 < Aestrix> Bye <3
14:54 -!- Endovior is now known as Endo_away
14:54 < linkhyrule5> Teceler: How goes?
14:54 < Aestrix> Heeee Endo away <3
14:54 < Teceler> distractness
14:54 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix: is Rae in the elemental blessings land now?
14:54 < linkhyrule5> haahaha
14:55 < Aestrix> Ha :P
14:55 < linkhyrule5> oh hey Aestrix
14:56 < linkhyrule5> you seemed to like that Ar Tonelico stuff
14:56 < linkhyrule5> want more?
14:56 < Aestrix> Yes! :D
14:56 < Aestrix> I always like listening to new music, especially instrumental stuff.
14:56 < Aestrix> Though that's not technically instrumental
14:56 < Aestrix> It's sort of close!
14:57 < linkhyrule5> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1GtMiKXE_E&index=2&list=PL0D514FA360F68689
14:57 < linkhyrule5> also that entire playlist
14:57 < linkhyrule5> but especially exec chronicle key
14:57 < Aestrix> Eeeeee
14:57 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
14:57 < Aestrix> Thank you!
14:57 < linkhyrule5> np!
14:57 < linkhyrule5> Always glad to share things I like
14:57 < linkhyrule5> then more things can like the mwith me :P
14:57 < Aestrix> ^_^
14:57 < Aestrix> Yes!
14:57 < Kel> Hi!
14:58 < Aestrix> Hi Eva
14:58 < linkhyrule5> Eexc_CHRONICLE_KEY is also on the list of "things to use when ME cuts loose"
14:58 < Aestrix> Heee
14:58 < Aestrix> Now I want to go find themes for Inkspot.
14:58 < Aestrix> Or Raezenoth
14:58 < Aestrix> Raezenoth would get a good cut loose theme
15:00 < linkhyrule5> Hmm...
15:00 < linkhyrule5> I... maaaay have one in mind, but I don't remember anything about it except the theme, so I'll get bac kto you
15:00 < linkhyrule5> for now look up Gerudo Desert because it's fun and dseert-y
15:00 < linkhyrule5> :P
15:00 < Aestrix> Mhm!
15:00 < Aestrix> After this song's finished
15:00 < Aestrix> I feel bad when I interrupt songs
15:01 < Aestrix> I don't so much when I don't like the song, but when I do I definitely feel guilt xD
15:01 < linkhyrule5> IKR
15:01 < linkhyrule5> I do that too
15:01 < linkhyrule5> wait for the poor performer tofinish
15:01 < Aestrix> "I'm sorry song! I love you! I'll go back and listen to you again properly!"
15:01 < Teceler> Also it tends to get the sound stuck in your head :P
15:01 < linkhyrule5> even if if she's a vocaloid
15:01 < linkhyrule5> haha
15:01 < Aestrix> Yeah
15:01 < Aestrix> xD
15:01 < linkhyrule5> also I like the ArT lyrics, in general
15:02 < linkhyrule5> they're pretty good about "Right, let's save the world by /actually caring about youor enemies/, who'da'thunk"
15:02 < Aestrix> Yeah
15:02 < Aestrix> That's a nice aspect
15:02 < Aestrix> I like saving the world with the power of friendship
15:02 < Kel> Oh! Does anyone want to hear a really *space* sounding song? (instrumental)?
15:02 < Aestrix> Sure!
15:03 < Kel> http://benprunty.bandcamp.com/track/welcome-to-the-afterlife
15:03 * Teceler is trying to write here, darn it people :P
15:03 < Aestrix> Gerudo desert's a decent Rae theme, but not good for when he's cutting loose
15:03 < Aestrix> Sorry!
15:03 < Kel> Sorry!
15:03 < Aestrix> Cutting loose I tend to think he needs Two Steps From Hell or something
15:03 < Aestrix> Something grandiose and epic and *godly* you know?
15:04 < Teceler> it's fine, I just keep being distracted (especially since the subject matter is /the exsurgent virus/ and Haunting in particular, which I had somehow managed to forget quite how disturbing is)
15:04 < kappabeta> oh hey so ME's getting a live feed of Mark's rescue efforts, right?
15:04 < kappabeta> Would he be giving the PM thread a play-by-play?
15:05 -!- MTC has quit
15:05 < Aestrix> (Gravity Ghost is very cute <3)
15:05 < linkhyrule5> ME might just make a livestream
15:06 < linkhyrule5> and put it in the PM thread
15:06 < kappabeta> hahaha
15:06 < Kel> (yay! have you played the game)
15:06 < linkhyrule5> He has pretty arbitrary information powers, he can do that
15:06 < Kel> *?
15:06 < Aestrix> (Nope! But the soundtrack sounds cute <3)
15:06 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - yeaaaaaah. Oh, hey, fyi, ME is going to to be taking the exsurgent virus and turning it into a "hollow missile" he can load arbitrary warheads into :P
15:07 < Teceler> Firewall: [facepalm]
15:07 < linkhyrule5> :D
15:07 < linkhyrule5> Tbf, he is a good person who will use his great power for good things!
15:07 < kappabeta> why this
15:07 < kappabeta> what does that even mean
15:07 < linkhyrule5> Basically, it infects people, but it doesn't /do/ anything
15:07 < Kel> (It is a very cute game, but also sometimes sad. (I have cried) but I agree that the soundtrack is really cute! <3)
15:07 < Aestrix> (<3)
15:07 < linkhyrule5> it's a super-contagious memetic/biological/matter virus that runs around and gets everywhere
15:07 < linkhyrule5> and then just sits there.
15:07 < linkhyrule5> ME will call it the Null strain.
15:08 < Teceler> Look, if ME wants them to cooperate with him, he needs to stop /doing incredibly risky things like that/ at least until they get used to his nigh-omnipotence :P
15:08 < linkhyrule5> hahaah
15:08 < Aestrix> Pfff
15:08 < linkhyrule5> Well, he won't be doing that /immediately/
15:08 < linkhyrule5> This is his long-term plan for getting into the WoD
15:08 < linkhyrule5> so he won't be doing this until he has some way of doing things /to/ the WoD
15:08 < linkhyrule5> which means "getting a ton of matter, which I will allow hi mto have because it's earmarked for Making the WoD Less Sad"
15:08 < Teceler> ...well, that is not an unreasonable goal, but
15:09 < linkhyrule5> Firewall will not be happy
15:09 < linkhyrule5> I (and ME) totally underestands
15:09 < Aestrix> ( Starfall -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFEAzP1Zm-A isn't bad for Rae)
15:09 < Aestrix> (Isn't bad for Rae.)
15:09 < Teceler> Firewall does not approve of people messing around with the exsurgent virus for obvious reasons
15:10 < linkhyrule5> Will they approve more if he comes up with an exsurgent-based vaccine?
15:10 < linkhyrule5> He can totally make a exsurgent virophage
15:10 < Teceler> (this was part of the 'risk-taking' thing in their message to Leaf)
15:10 < linkhyrule5> hahah
15:11 < linkhyrule5> Yeaaaah, Firewall would kind of just cry in despair for awhile if they found out what Entelechy was like w.r.t. to bizarre viruses
15:11 < Teceler> ...they would be much happier if they made a vaccine for the exsurgent virus /that was not based on it/
15:11 < linkhyrule5> I mean, I'msure they'd get up and fix things anyway
15:11 < Aestrix> xD
15:11 < linkhyrule5> they're that kind of heroes
15:11 < linkhyrule5> but like
15:11 < Teceler> Firewall: At least Entelechy has ways to /counter/ them
15:11 < linkhyrule5> there would definitely be this period of "why, gods, why"
15:11 < Teceler> *better ways
15:11 < Teceler> but yeah
15:11 < Kel> heee!
15:12 < Teceler> '/why did someone think that was a good idea/? /why/?'
15:12 < linkhyrule5> hahaah
15:12 < linkhyrule5> Oh, Aestrix - have another thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wko-Iw49sHY
15:12 < linkhyrule5> Akakakushi. "The Hidden Red/Spiriting Away by the Red"
15:12 < linkhyrule5> Not very Rae, but very godly/spirity
15:13 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - but yeah, his method of fixing EP is going to be some mix of "teaching the Prometheans infowards" and "vvirophages"
15:13 < linkhyrule5> he will be consulting Firewall, so there will be funny reactions but probably not actual "dude ask us before you unleash viral plagues on us with good initentions" moments
15:14 < Aestrix> Oo, music.
15:14 < Teceler> Firewall: And if your 'safe' virophage mutates into a genuine version of the exsurgent virus after everyone is infected with it, what then?
15:14 < linkhyrule5> He does have /some/ respect for self-management, he just wants to get on with saving the world :P
15:14 < Adelene> Starfall *is* very Rae. ^^
15:14 < Aestrix> :)
15:15 < linkhyrule5> ME: Then it's a good thing I've taught the Prometheans how to pull off fatehax, isn't it. So when I say "it won't happen," I don't necessarily mean it wouldn't /normally/ happen.
15:15 < Aestrix> Akakakushi isn't Rae at all, but it does feel godly/spirity
15:15 < linkhyrule5> Might be a good Pantheon theme or - what are you calling that world now tha Pantheon's taken
15:15 < Adelene> Aaaand that next one is like getting hit in the face with hammers, looks like I'm done with music for the day.
15:15 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - but yeah, lots of "teachig the Prometheans how to do things"
15:16 < linkhyrule5> and probably some "teaching Firewall how to do things" too, but they'll pick it up slower for
15:16 < linkhyrule5> uh
15:16 < linkhyrule5> obvious reasons
15:16 < linkhyrule5> :
15:16 < linkhyrule5> :P
15:16 < Adelene> (Probably not a function of the song itself, I just have very limited spoons for dealing with sound.)
15:16 < Aestrix> I haven't decided on what to name it
15:16 < linkhyrule5> Oh, Aestrix, what did you think of EXEC_CHRONICLE_KEY
15:16 < linkhyrule5> ?
15:16 < Aestrix> Alicorn put forth 'Domain' but I said no because that would get confusing
15:16 < Aestrix> Oh, it's good.
15:16 < Aestrix> I don't love it as much as the first one you sent, but I like it <3
15:16 < Aestrix> The other ME one
15:17 < linkhyrule5> Harmonius?
15:17 < linkhyrule5> yeah, that one is great
15:17 < Aestrix> I am pretty terrible with song names xD
15:17 < Aestrix> I try, but, pretty terrible
15:17 < linkhyrule5> I normally am, but I'mgood at programming
15:17 < linkhyrule5> so ArT hits those buttons
15:17 < Aestrix> Ha :P
15:17 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: I feel like the asyncs are likely to pick it up faster (than the rest of Firewall who are not Seed AIs), is that a remotely accurate feeling?
15:18 < Teceler> (that, or a lot slower. Not sure)
15:18 -!- Eva has quit
15:18 < linkhyrule5> Mm. Reasonably. Things that help: weird information powers (like the psi strain, actually), being accustomted to weird truths and enlightenment
15:18 < linkhyrule5> lots and lots of persistence
15:18 < linkhyrule5> Magic actively resists being learned: you are going to feel very stupid while learning it because it takes hours to grasp "2+2=4"
15:19 < linkhyrule5> General intelligence helps too, of course
15:19 < Aestrix> Anyway, Akakakushi doesn't feel quite right for not-Pantheon, don't know why
15:19 < Teceler> even though it is literally alien so it is not odd to have trouble with it?
15:19 < linkhyrule5> Even for that.
15:19 < linkhyrule5> Also not quite
15:19 < linkhyrule5> Like, Entelechy magic as taught will be Eclipse's verison of Entelechy magic
15:19 < Teceler> --from the point of view of Eclipse, I mean
15:19 < Teceler> ah
15:20 < linkhyrule5> It's kind of like "enlightement," it's "undersetanding how the world works on a much deeper level"
15:20 < kappabeta> in trying to paw through my known musics for gods-related things, this song came up:
15:20 < kappabeta> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bjxqw1hi7NM
15:20 < Teceler> well, given Eclipse, it still comes out a bit alien, I think :P But I see what you mean
15:20 < linkhyrule5> The way I have it, which various authors can nope, is that Entelechy is "how the world really works", but Entelechy was the world that got "lucky" and exposed the mechanics
15:20 < kappabeta> (Savant, Castle of Gods)
15:20 < linkhyrule5> so that it was obvious to the people in it
15:21 < Teceler> and had easily-manipuable mechanics?
15:21 < linkhyrule5> So in other worlds, there's the background metaphysics, but it's entirely covered by the physics, and you don't have any plausible way of noticing the background
15:21 < Adelene> oo, Savant I can probably listen to.
15:21 < linkhyrule5> ^ that too
15:21 < linkhyrule5> So Eclipse's stuff is going to feel a mix of unnaturally familiar, as if yo uwere learning quantum mechanics and it all made perfect sense on the first try
15:21 < linkhyrule5> except that it also takes like several tries
15:22 < linkhyrule5> I guess it's more that in retrospect, it always looks incredibly natural and obvious
15:22 < linkhyrule5> but as you're doing it your mind just kind of slides off it
15:22 < Teceler> ...how much does knowledge of actual quantum mechanics help here?
15:22 < linkhyrule5> Hmm.
15:22 < linkhyrule5> Actually, some.
15:22 < linkhyrule5> Knowing how the physics works is going to make you go "wait, this is where physics comes from, isn't it"
15:23 < Teceler> because I would expect it to either help or hurt
15:23 < Teceler> ah
15:23 < linkhyrule5> It's kind of like, I dunno, how much physics do you know?
15:23 < linkhyrule5> If you're taught Coulomb's Law by rote, the equation for Electromagnetic force
15:23 < linkhyrule5> and then you're taught Maxwell's equations, and you go "wait, I can derive Coulomb's Law from this"
15:23 < Teceler> ...oh, this is like /calculus/, isn't it
15:24 < linkhyrule5> haha
15:24 < linkhyrule5> Kinda, yeah
15:24 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - this is another good one for Great High Magic in general. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwFKD3X_TWc
15:25 < Aestrix> Eeee so much music <3
15:25 < linkhyrule5> I literally can't like, function, in general, in silence
15:25 < linkhyrule5> so I end up finding lots of music to play in the background
15:25 < linkhyrule5> I like to think I have good taste, so most of it is good :P
15:25 < Aestrix> <3
15:25 < Aestrix> I can't function very well in silence either
15:25 < Aestrix> I CAN, but not WELL
15:25 < kappabeta> I used to play music all the time but then I lived with Alicorn for four months and got out of the habit and I should probably get back into it
15:26 * Teceler opens up gatecrashing again to see what she was thinking about earlier
15:26 < Adelene> That Savant one is too tech to be Rae. I could see it being somebody else though.
15:26 < Aestrix> I've learned that I am much less picky with music than other people seem to be xD
15:26 < Aestrix> Yeah, Savant's too tech to be Rae
15:26 < Aestrix> If a Nadia were a steampunk god then yeah it'd be perfect
15:26 < Teceler> oh, it's /that/ one, ahahaha
15:27 < kappabeta> hehehe
15:28 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - but yeah, asyncs I think will generally pick it up faster, psi strain focused people will pick it up faster tahn other asyncs
15:28 < Teceler> ... 'psi strain focused' ?
15:28 < linkhyrule5> persistence is more important than intelligence, but both help
15:28 < linkhyrule5> I got the impressiont that if you have the gamma strain, you /also/ have the psi strain information powers?
15:28 < linkhyrule5> But I could be wrong? It's been awhile
15:28 < Teceler> I am not sure what you are talking about, is the problem here
15:28 < Aestrix> linkhyrule5 - good for a specific type of magic, yeah
15:29 < linkhyrule5> Er, there are information power Watts MacLeod, there's outright reality warping, and then there's full on exsurgence
15:29 < linkhyrule5> and they all have names
15:29 < Teceler> Okay, of the EP stats, I'm seeing COG, WIL and maybe INT being relevant here. Am I modeling that right?
15:29 < Teceler> oh
15:29 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - yeah, the kind with rituals and lights and howling winds
15:30 < Teceler> you're thinking of chi/gamma/epsilon?
15:30 < linkhyrule5> That's it
15:30 < linkhyrule5> psi strain >.>
15:30 < Teceler> I thought you were talking about a specific slight
15:30 < kappabeta> this song off the matrix soundtrack i'm pretty sure is *somebody's* power song although i don't think it's rae's
15:30 < kappabeta> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q39DRaS6RQ
15:30 < Teceler> thus confusion
15:30 < linkhyrule5> yeah, people who focus on chi, even if they have a more entrenched infection, are going to have an advantage
15:30 < Aestrix> I should go find music for Inkspot, or like, try to find the right aesthetic for what he magic sounds like, because I think it doesn't sound like that one
15:31 < Aestrix> her*
15:31 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, I got the impression it was more willworking
15:31 < Aestrix> Yeah
15:31 < linkhyrule5> and on the spot changes
15:31 < Teceler> (of course, there are four sets of Gamma slights, one of which is Sense, so it gets a little fuzzy)
15:31 < Aestrix> Less - structured
15:31 < Teceler> (And I'm guessing high Sense would help)
15:32 < linkhyrule5> Probably, if that does what it sounds like
15:32 < Teceler> (is there anyone watching you? Are there any other egos around you? etc)
15:32 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - on a side note, before I forget, could you let Alicorn know that I borrowed "I mean forver" for ME, because it's an amazing quote and I totally wanted to use it?
15:33 < kappabeta> ooh XD
15:33 < linkhyrule5> It's in the intro thread if you want to see it - I replied to Astra Nephthys saying "It won't matter in your lifetime" with "I intend to live forever, and I mean forever"
15:34 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: How good is ME going to be at telling what a strain adapted to work on fungi does?
15:34 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - Very, since he can basically "ask it"
15:34 < linkhyrule5> Have you read Young Wizards?
15:34 < linkhyrule5> bits of his powerset are based off the Speech
15:34 < linkhyrule5> though it's less "language," more "universal Truth"
15:34 < Aestrix> I was looking through my youtube liked videos (I tend to like a lot of music) there's a magic talking sword that I give Nadias if it's appropriate whose theme is -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53lfXb73z3c
15:34 < Teceler> yeah, but the answer is going to be something like 'fungi-stuff' :P Or can he bypass that?
15:35 < Aestrix> For anyone curious
15:35 < linkhyrule5> He can look into a hypothetical space where it does things to fungi
15:35 < linkhyrule5> and then see whawt it does
15:37 < linkhyrule5> Amethystium?
15:37 < Aestrix> Yep.
15:37 < linkhyrule5> listening
15:37 < Teceler> ...okay, you can assume he is getting more details than what I ended up writing
15:38 < linkhyrule5> lol, okay
15:39 < linkhyrule5> Hm, interesting.
15:39 < linkhyrule5> It's a little eerie, little quiet
15:39 < linkhyrule5> I think I like it
15:39 < Aestrix> :D
15:39 < kappabeta> alicorn has been informed of the thing. alicorn said "awww"
15:40 < Aestrix> <3
15:40 < linkhyrule5> :D
15:40 < linkhyrule5> DanielH has already concluded that ME is an alt of Visitor
15:40 < Aestrix> Pfff xD
15:41 < linkhyrule5> ... you know ,with all the Truth shenanigans going on I'm kind of tempted to bring in Beatrice from Umineko
15:41 < linkhyrule5> but that might end poorly for /someone/, so
15:43 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: done
15:43 < linkhyrule5> reading!
15:45 < linkhyrule5> tag
15:47 < Teceler> tag
15:48 < Teceler> er, moment
15:48 < linkhyrule5> Oh hey, Aestrix, another ArT rec - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPI9HUZjcb8&list=PL0D514FA360F68689&index=29
15:48 < linkhyrule5> same playlist tho
15:48 < Teceler> okay, now with clearer antecedents
15:49 < Aestrix> <3
15:49 < linkhyrule5> I love how that song opens with, of all things, a /function definition/
15:50 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - you know, I somehow had the impression the exsurgent virus was weirder than that
15:50 < Aestrix> I am still on my song search for a song that works for arcany, I am working my way towards recommendations <3
15:50 < linkhyrule5> though it does do reality warping
15:50 < linkhyrule5> haha
15:50 < Aestrix> So ArT will be listened to in about six minutes when this song is done xD
15:50 < linkhyrule5> hahaah
15:51 < Teceler> well, psi-epsilon slights do, that might have been where you got that impression
15:51 < linkhyrule5> yeah
15:52 < linkhyrule5> I got the impression that the exsurgent virus in general was the sort of realitywarping thing that could get physical strains places where there really couldn't have been
15:52 < Teceler> anti-electronics field! levitation! cyrokinesis! alteration of friction! matter transformation!
15:52 < Teceler> not really, it's just really insidious
15:52 < linkhyrule5> because of shenanigans with switchinig between data form and physical form
15:52 < linkhyrule5> ah
15:52 < linkhyrule5> shame
15:53 < linkhyrule5> ME might have to boost it a bit before he can use it in the WoD then.
15:53 < linkhyrule5> [/Firewall screaming]
15:53 * linkhyrule5 is joking. Mostly.
15:53 < Teceler> I mean, if a digital virus gets it's hands on a insufficently secured nanofabricator, then, yes
15:54 < Teceler> and I wouldn't be surprised in the physical versions can spawn digital ones by altering electronics. Or cause basilisk hacks.
15:54 < Teceler> *if th
15:54 < Teceler> *if the
15:54 < linkhyrule5> I mean, it's definitely somewhat impossible
15:54 < linkhyrule5> because the sheer size of a virus like that
15:54 < Kel> You know what'd be probably very bad if it could happen?
15:54 < linkhyrule5> that needs to carry the information of its physical and digital states
15:54 < Kel> The virus getting into the Grid from the WoD
15:54 < Teceler> gah
15:54 < linkhyrule5> Less than you'd think
15:54 < linkhyrule5> The Void Engineers would have a field day, no doubt
15:55 < linkhyrule5> but like, it'd basically be "yet another malicious alien, oh joy"
15:55 < Teceler> well, yes, but it's the exsurgent virus, it /cheats/
15:55 < linkhyrule5> They already have their own TITAN in-setting. It is not winning.
15:55 < Teceler> that is where most of the cheatery is
15:55 < Teceler> I think
15:55 < linkhyrule5> heh
15:55 < linkhyrule5> oh?
15:55 < Teceler> carrying all the information it needs
15:56 < Teceler> and being smart and such. On the scale it is at
15:56 < linkhyrule5> ah
15:56 < linkhyrule5> yeah
15:56 < Aestrix> Hm, I don't much like this ArT song, actually xD
15:56 < Teceler> I mean, some of that is that a lot of the intelligence is lots of them linking up and running something on that, but
15:56 < linkhyrule5> like, that's definitely pretty impossible
15:56 < linkhyrule5> lol
15:56 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - well, they can't all be winners
15:56 < Aestrix> Alas!
15:57 < Aestrix> It has a fun part in the middle
15:57 < linkhyrule5> the next one in the list is stuck in my head, but I'm not sure if that's because it's first or because it's good
15:57 < Aestrix> But I don't much like the singer
15:57 < linkhyrule5> Odd, they're all the same I think
15:57 < linkhyrule5> well, maybe not
15:57 < Teceler> well, if I wanted to Science it, I might say that they have a central information bank somewhere and have some kind of Quantum Link to it
15:58 < Teceler> but canonically it's speculated that the xenomorph strain keeps a bunch of different exsurgent templates /too/, so...
15:58 < Aestrix> First one on the list is much better. ^_^
15:58 < linkhyrule5> Fou ki ra hyear precia reen...
15:58 < linkhyrule5> That's a conlang, fyi
15:58 < linkhyrule5> It hactually has meaning
15:58 < linkhyrule5> I mean i use the runes/font because it looks cool, but the language itself exists
15:59 < Teceler> "In general you don't need to worry about things being illegal to say unless, like I said, you are actually trying to arrange an assassination."
15:59 < kappabeta> XD
15:59 < Aestrix> I like the language :3
16:00 < Kel> hahaha
16:00 < Kel> yes that
16:00 < Teceler> I'm guessing Dottled Lines is going 'um, are you sure?'
16:00 < Kel> Yes so much
16:01 < Kel> he's going "are you sure there's nothing you're missing just because you're used to it?"
16:01 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
16:01 < Teceler> ...Miles, you left out 'arrange a coup', you live on Barrayar, how did you manage to leave that one out
16:01 < Aestrix> xD
16:01 < Teceler> *arranging
16:01 < kappabeta> He didn't LEAVE OUT arranging a coup, he just like. gave the EXAMPLE of assassination to cover that general category of thing.
16:02 < Teceler> he said assassination specifically, I think, but okay
16:02 < Teceler> oh, the first time that was a category of things, okay
16:02 < linkhyrule5> tag
16:03 < Aestrix> When ME eventually scries Facet (which I assume he will) I'm up for threading it
16:04 < linkhyrule5> He will, yeah
16:04 < Aestrix> Obviously not right now, because he's busy, but offer's open
16:04 < linkhyrule5> He's going through all of them
16:04 < linkhyrule5> A few of them will explode his eyeballs, but oh well.
16:04 < Teceler> are we going with our plan re: ETI? Because that affects whether it is in a Maximally Inconvenient Position
16:04 < Teceler> XD
16:04 < linkhyrule5> Keter in particular is going to be !!FUN!!
16:04 < Teceler> are you actually keeping a counter for that?
16:04 < Aestrix> Ahahahaha xD
16:04 < linkhyrule5> At this point, yes
16:04 < kappabeta> is he going to try scrying Esthfora or the keeper's domain
16:04 < Teceler> --and also /is/ he immune to all the relevant SCPs?
16:04 < linkhyrule5> He's up to 14 or so
16:05 < linkhyrule5> And like, I think so?
16:05 < kappabeta> i'm up for threading the scrying of whatever of my characters' worlds
16:05 < linkhyrule5> The key could probably unlock his wards if it was used directly on them, but it'd need to be used and if he saw it coming (and he has precog) he could neutralize it
16:05 < linkhyrule5> He will do both!
16:05 < kappabeta> esthfora should be particularly fun
16:05 < linkhyrule5> He may end up just wandering in Esthfora based on how it works
16:05 < kappabeta> hee
16:05 < linkhyrule5> I get the impression there's not a big difference between scrying it and being in it
16:06 < kappabeta> I could definitely see, like... he has one of his bodies scry Esthfora-the-place and now said body is *there*
16:06 < kappabeta> wandering around the impossible architecture
16:06 < kappabeta> :D
16:06 < linkhyrule5> Tht would be rather amusing yeh
16:06 < Teceler> can ME recognize seed AIs from, like random high computing-power-stuff?
16:06 < linkhyrule5> I think I'd go play Monument Valley for a bit to get a mental image, but yeah
16:06 < kappabeta> playing monument valley for a bit to get a mental image is an excellent plan
16:06 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - I think so! The ETI thing with "argh get this thing off me stupid humans?"
16:06 < linkhyrule5> sounds good
16:06 < Teceler> yes, that think
16:06 < Teceler> *thing
16:07 < linkhyrule5> and if he checks he can
16:07 < kappabeta> Esthfora-as-location is like Monument Valley but weirder and with more rainbows
16:07 < linkhyrule5> for that matter if he looks at it in the right way he'll get it by default
16:07 < Teceler> and 'to hell with this universe, it all gets this stuff DIE'
16:07 < linkhyrule5> the potential will stand out as a big giant dollop of Wood-alilgnment from his perspective
16:07 < linkhyrule5> pretty much
16:07 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - I think he's generally immune to SCPs, most of them do unfortunate things to your body which he doesn't care about
16:08 < linkhyrule5> a bunch do unfortuante things to his mind, which he could care about, but if it's /too/ dramatic it just becomes Not Him and gets exploded
16:08 < Teceler> I mean, by relevant SCPs I mean the mind-stuff
16:08 < Teceler> ah
16:08 < linkhyrule5> Like, the stuff that's dangerous is the insidious stuff
16:08 < linkhyrule5> the things that are basically supernaturally good at convincing you of things
16:08 < linkhyrule5> If it's too dramatic a change, his wards pick it up and explode him/cancel that future/rewrite fate to avoid things/etc
16:09 < Kel> Would they explode him for the toaster one?
16:09 < Aestrix> Pfffffff
16:09 < linkhyrule5> Which toaster one is this?
16:09 < Teceler> XD
16:09 < Aestrix> Explode him xD
16:09 < linkhyrule5> because that sounds hilarious
16:09 < Teceler> the one that makes you talk about the toaster in the first person
16:09 < Kel> yeah that
16:09 < linkhyrule5> hahaah
16:09 < Aestrix> If you spend long enough with it you think you are a toaster
16:09 < linkhyrule5> got a link?
16:09 < linkhyrule5> it probably would
16:10 < Kel> http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-426
16:10 < Aestrix> http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-426
16:10 < Teceler> yeah, but he would have trouble getting that much exposure unless the scry accelerates it a lot
16:10 < Aestrix> SO CLOSE
16:10 < linkhyrule5> lol
16:10 < Aestrix> Beaten by HALF A SECOND
16:10 < Kel> Hahaha
16:10 < Thatwasademo> dang irc ninjas
16:10 < linkhyrule5> what might end up happening is that he might end up keeping Toaster ME in a closet for amusements
16:10 < Teceler> tag
16:10 * Aestrix shakes her fist.
16:10 < linkhyrule5> He's really harsh on himself, in case it wasn't obvious
16:10 < linkhyrule5> he has gotten super casual with abusing alpha forks, because there's just so much of him to go around
16:11 * Kel cackles evilly
16:11 < linkhyrule5> His priorities are such that "if it helps Overself Me, I don't mind"
16:11 < Aestrix> xD
16:11 < Teceler> and he is okay with hypothetically being on the receiving end of-- ah, yeah
16:11 < linkhyrule5> Like, he's thinking about taking up /Orz/ on his offer
16:11 < linkhyrule5> He can be traumatized, but it's things that would traumatize his overself that would do that
16:11 < Aestrix> What was Orz's offer?
16:11 < Teceler> to Find Out Things, I thought?
16:12 < linkhyrule5> Basically.
16:12 < linkhyrule5> Find out Things Man was Not Meant to Know
16:12 < Aestrix> Ah
16:12 < linkhyrule5> learn his absurdly brainrbeaking Truthshift
16:12 < linkhyrule5> things like that
16:12 < Teceler> ah
16:12 < Aestrix> Heh
16:12 < linkhyrule5> But yeah, like, same deal, normal "I feel sad" trauma, that goes through, that's part of being human and he kpet that intentionally
16:12 < linkhyrule5> Bizarre "I am a toaster" stuff is just obviously bad and gets exploded
16:12 < Aestrix> xD
16:13 < Teceler> I am starting to have fun with this thread now that I am not describing the exsurgent virus, yay
16:13 < Aestrix> Well on the other hand you can genuinely not talk about the toaster in a third person
16:13 < Teceler> on the other hand, you don't actually otherwise think you are the toaster without a lot of exposure
16:13 < Kel> *You can't talk about me in the third person
16:13 < Aestrix> <3
16:14 < Teceler> right
16:14 < Aestrix> I am an author, I am immune by way of I say so <3
16:14 < Thatwasademo> that's generally a good policy
16:14 < Aestrix> I think so, yes!
16:14 < Kel> hahaha
16:14 < Kel> (You are immune because of your Mean God powers)
16:14 < Aestrix> I am, it's true
16:15 < Aestrix> I've gleefully destroyed planets
16:15 < Aestrix> It was part of the ritual to gain my Mean God powers
16:15 < linkhyrule5> I feel like what woudl happen is, it'd get him once, and then he'd add it to his "list of memetic attacks to block out" and see a big [REDACTED] censor bar over it
16:15 < Thatwasademo> probably the worst thing I've done is banish the keeper to the abyss
16:15 < linkhyrule5> Later he will destroy the thing when he fixes Keter, but
16:16 < linkhyrule5> Or mayeb not
16:16 < linkhyrule5> It might amuse him enough to keep around
16:16 < linkhyrule5> It's kind of a risk though
16:16 < Thatwasademo> i am a significantly less accomplished Mean God
16:16 < Teceler> It is a pretty innocuous SCP right up until it kills you by way of thinking you are a toaster
16:16 < linkhyrule5> ... yeah, it's a little too dangerous, even asside from its other properoties it could be reverse engineered
16:17 < Aestrix> I am actually of the opinion that I am the Least Mean of me, Kappa, and Alicorn. I've killed and tortured less people.
16:17 < Thatwasademo> well
16:17 < kappabeta> pffffffffffffffff
16:17 < kappabeta> i'm the softie though!
16:17 < Aestrix> You are, but you made Downside.
16:18 < kappabeta> brb
16:18 < Aestrix> I did not make Downside.
16:18 < Thatwasademo> have you also simulated less total people
16:18 < Aestrix> I made Kystle.
16:18 < Aestrix> ... I have also simulated less total people, admittedly.
16:18 < Thatwasademo> that's probably why kappa thinks he's the softie
16:18 < Aestrix> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD_IRiEQdtA
16:18 < Aestrix> Is a good Astra song
16:18 < Thatwasademo> songs
16:18 < Aestrix> Sorry xD
16:19 < linkhyrule5> tag
16:19 < Aestrix> Anyway. I'm not the softie of the group for sure.
16:19 < Thatwasademo> man i have it easy, my primary character already has faces AND songs
16:19 < Aestrix> Ha!
16:19 < linkhyrule5> also, Aestrix, EXEC_FLIP_ARPHAGE
16:19 < linkhyrule5> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFdRhJpUKt0&list=PL0D514FA360F68689&index=5
16:19 < Teceler> I was wondering if he was going to think the Seed AI made it
16:19 < Teceler> or at least check that and go 'well, um'
16:20 < linkhyrule5> ... That... is an interesting idea, and I probably would've have thought of that if I hadn't known the right answer
16:20 < linkhyrule5> so
16:20 < Aestrix> Actually it's been proven through testing that if a character directly asks me for a thing to not happen to them I will not have that thing happen to them
16:20 < Thatwasademo> (speaking of EXEC_FLIP, I can't wait until Viridian encounters someone and they notice he's standing on the ceiling)
16:20 < linkhyrule5> looool?
16:20 < Aestrix> Pfffff
16:20 < Thatwasademo> (it's gone mysteriously unmentioned)
16:20 < Teceler> (XD)
16:21 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - edit
16:21 < linkhyrule5> On a side note
16:21 < linkhyrule5> if you google "Tohsaka Tokiomi" for images
16:21 < linkhyrule5> you'll get a decent idea of what Aisilian looks like
16:21 < kappabeta> Grocery shopping soon
16:21 < linkhyrule5> thuogh his personality is kind of different
16:22 < linkhyrule5> Also he's less fire-obssessed
16:22 < kappabeta> also: I'm the softie because how mean I am to my characters is substantially affected by how much I think they'd hate me for it
16:22 < linkhyrule5> and his fire is less organe and more black anyway
16:22 < Aestrix> And less horrible to his daughter
16:22 < Aestrix> I hope
16:22 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
16:22 < linkhyrule5> oh you've read F/SN?
16:22 < Aestrix> Watched the anime
16:22 < linkhyrule5> F/Z?
16:22 < kappabeta> groceries! /trundles off
16:22 < Aestrix> Yeah
16:22 < linkhyrule5> And tbf, he didn't /know/ he was giving her to the rape worms >.>
16:23 < linkhyrule5> He thought he was giving her to a respected magus fammily to be trained as an heir, so that her potential wouldn't be wasted
16:23 < Aestrix> Yeah but like. He gave up his daughter and then didn't check up on her
16:23 < linkhyrule5> He's not malevolent, he's just careless
16:23 < linkhyrule5> ^ that
16:23 < Thatwasademo> kappa: this is why if i am ever so simultaneously fortunate and unfortunate as to show up in milliways i am talking to jokers first
16:23 < Aestrix> I'm talking to the Mileses first.
16:23 < Aestrix> For... Reasons.
16:23 < Thatwasademo> well, them or Jane
16:23 < linkhyrule5> I am going straight to the Belltower and leaving a note
16:24 < Aestrix> If there are no Mileses around I'd do that, yeah, and hope they don't put me on trial for crimes against humanity
16:24 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
16:24 < Aestrix> But if there ARE any members of that particular template I'm going to go talk to them.
16:25 < Thatwasademo> the first significant thing i'd do is perform an experiment to establish the direction of metacausality
16:25 < Aestrix> (For those of you that don't know, I have an outrageous crush on the Miles template)
16:25 * linkhyrule5 is amused
16:25 < linkhyrule5> Hm, that's an interesting question
16:25 < linkhyrule5> does ME have kids.
16:25 < linkhyrule5> I mean, he's 3000+
16:25 < linkhyrule5> but on the other hand, he's pretty darned closeted, and also busy saving the world from apocalypses
16:25 < Aestrix> Pff.
16:26 < linkhyrule5> Seriously, I went over this with Teceler but like
16:26 < Teceler> well, did original-ME have kids?
16:26 < linkhyrule5> every couple hundred years the Earth gets sucked int oa black hole
16:26 < Teceler> hm?
16:26 < Teceler> oh, that thing
16:26 < linkhyrule5> or torn into shreds
16:26 < Aestrix> It what.
16:26 < linkhyrule5> or overrun with giant zombie firebreathing dinosaur viruses
16:26 < Teceler> yeah
16:26 < Aestrix> xD
16:26 < linkhyrule5> or unhappened entirely
16:26 < Teceler> that was my reaction
16:26 < Thatwasademo> brb issuing curses
16:26 -!- Thatwasademo is now known as Xom
16:26 < linkhyrule5> lol
16:26 < Teceler> hee
16:26 < Aestrix> Pfff
16:26 < Xom> let me just set this up so I can brick joke when I get back
16:26 < Teceler> and then someone has to fix it
16:27 < Aestrix> EXEC_FLIP_ARPHAGE is fun
16:27 < linkhyrule5> glad you like it :P
16:27 < Aestrix> I like it
16:27 < Aestrix> <3
16:27 < Teceler> and ME is one of the people who do that
16:27 < Teceler> he does have a /team/ he does that with, though linkhyrule5
16:27 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, that's true
16:27 < linkhyrule5> There's a whole final fantasy party of misfits
16:27 < Aestrix> Pff
16:27 < linkhyrule5> that get up every now and then and go "God darn it, here we goddarn go again"
16:27 < Aestrix> xD
16:28 < Teceler> XD
16:28 < linkhyrule5> There's a /reason/ ME doesn't really get ... plussed, shall we say.
16:28 < linkhyrule5> He gets /mad/, if people get hurt and whatnot
16:28 < linkhyrule5> but things tend not to surprise him, because, uh.
16:28 < Aestrix> Pff
16:28 < Teceler> 'oh, great, time to save the world again'
16:28 < linkhyrule5> ^that
16:28 < Aestrix> Ahahaha
16:28 < Aestrix> You know Prism's older than him :P
16:28 < linkhyrule5> Glad you like my setting :P
16:28 < Aestrix> She's like 7,000
16:28 < linkhyrule5> ... that's hilarious
16:28 < Aestrix> Yes xD
16:28 < Teceler> he doesn't really give off a seen-it-all air, though. Just kind of randomly non-nonchalant
16:28 < linkhyrule5> She's going to call him little brother or something
16:28 < Aestrix> She's older than _Rae_.
16:28 < Teceler> XD
16:28 < linkhyrule5> and ME is going to hlarious
16:29 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - well, that's more because I'm new to roleplaying
16:29 < Teceler> oh, I thought that was a thing
16:29 < Teceler> that is part of why my chars are so confused by him
16:29 < linkhyrule5> I mean, it kind of depends on what you mean by that?
16:29 < linkhyrule5> Explain further?
16:29 < Aestrix> Inkspot's about 1,000, she finds Prism's age and lack of sense kind of disturbing.
16:30 < linkhyrule5> loool
16:30 < Teceler> (well, also they think he's overconfident and thinks things that apply in his own world will necessarily apply in others)
16:30 < Aestrix> "How are you STILL ALIVE?"
16:30 < Teceler> XD
16:30 < linkhyrule5> hahaah
16:30 < Aestrix> "How did you make it so long and be so STUPID?"
16:30 < linkhyrule5> Apparently the ministry does a good job of punishing people who abuse bank account information?
16:31 < Aestrix> The Ministry does a good job at a lot of things
16:31 < Teceler> are we completely sure Prism isn't just faking that for some mysterious reason? :P
16:31 < linkhyrule5> just... not very ethically
16:31 < Aestrix> Facet's a... safe place to live
16:31 < linkhyrule5> hahahaha
16:31 < linkhyrule5> for most people
16:31 < Aestrix> I have been toying with the idea that Prism is actually a high level Ministry official who's faking it and gathering intel
16:31 < Aestrix> But I decided against it
16:31 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - so what do ou mean by a "seen it all air"?
16:31 < Teceler> The thing the Minstry is not very good at is actually making people genuinely like them.
16:31 < Aestrix> Yes
16:31 < Aestrix> It's not very good at that
16:31 < Teceler> I'm not sure how to explain
16:31 < linkhyrule5> like I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure
16:32 < Teceler> but it seems to be more competent than some Evil Governments, so there's that.
16:32 < linkhyrule5> haha
16:32 < Aestrix> Heh
16:33 < Aestrix> I mean it actually treats its citizens pretty well
16:33 < Aestrix> As long as they obey
16:33 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, like, the problem is that /I'm/ have most certainly not seen it all?
16:33 < linkhyrule5> so writing ME is a little bit out of my normal zone
16:33 < Teceler> yeah, but [words]
16:33 < linkhyrule5> hahah
16:33 < linkhyrule5> Sorry, but I do not have a spell of perfect comprehension
16:33 < Teceler> I thought he just didn't give of that impression for hilarity reasons
16:33 < linkhyrule5> you'll have to actually use words :P
16:33 < Teceler> XD
16:33 < linkhyrule5> He could do that
16:33 < linkhyrule5> that is something he would do, he's awfully mischievous for 3k
16:34 < Aestrix> Pff
16:34 < linkhyrule5> but I'd like to see what he's doing so I can change it if I want
16:34 < Teceler> not necessarily hilarity on his end as much as the meta end, but possibly that too
16:34 < Aestrix> I think he's fine, honestly.
16:34 < linkhyrule5> so if you figure out what he's doing object-level it'db e nice
16:34 < Kel> idk, I don't think the magically crippling them thing sounds like treating them well
16:34 < linkhyrule5> hahah
16:34 < linkhyrule5> true
16:34 < Aestrix> Well, okay, point. <3
16:34 < linkhyrule5> Mm... Yuo know what
16:34 < linkhyrule5> Yeah.
16:34 < Xom> For a disconcerting moment, your left and right hands swap places.
16:34 < linkhyrule5> He does have kids.
16:34 < linkhyrule5> ....
16:34 < linkhyrule5> well done :P
16:34 < Teceler> can someone help me work out what I'm thinking here? :P
16:35 < Teceler> re: seen-it-all
16:35 < linkhyrule5> He has kids, but they're not kids-kids, they're like 300 and mini-heroes in their own right
16:35 < Teceler> it's not a bad thing, but I am trying to explain and not doing very well
16:35 < Teceler> ha
16:35 < linkhyrule5> He calls them Scrub Horizon
16:35 < Teceler> of course they are
16:35 < Aestrix> xD
16:35 < Aestrix> Scrub Horizon xD
16:35 < linkhyrule5> Log Horizon is awesome :P
16:35 < Aestrix> Agreed!
16:35 < Aestrix> Hmm
16:36 < Aestrix> Let me try, Teceler.
16:36 < Aestrix> Right, so as I see ME it's not so much that he acts like he's seen it all, because he doesn't. He just isn't phased at all by weird shit.
16:36 -!- Xom is now known as Thatwasademo
16:36 < Aestrix> And his definition of normal is rather strange
16:36 < Thatwasademo> right well I'm back
16:36 < Teceler> yeah
16:36 < Aestrix> Welcome back
16:36 < Teceler> welcome back
16:36 < Aestrix> Which honestly I find to be rather nice
16:37 < Aestrix> Because even when you're 3,000 you haven't seen it all
16:37 < Teceler> ha
16:37 < linkhyrule5> Like, I'm definitely not writing him as patronizing
16:37 < Aestrix> Heh
16:37 < linkhyrule5> (And yeah, there's always the "tehre's always some new way some idiot finds to blow up the world)
16:37 < Aestrix> Yeah we have enough of that, thanks for not having him be patronizing
16:37 < linkhyrule5> He doesn't want to turn out like Gabriael >.>
16:37 < Teceler> he doesn't really seem world-weary, which is the other thing I associate with that?
16:37 < Aestrix> xD
16:37 < Aestrix> Yes
16:37 < Teceler> yeah, we have plenty of that with just the one
16:38 < Aestrix> No one wants to turn out like Gabriael.
16:38 < Teceler> Gabriael is a Bad End :P
16:38 < Kel> yes
16:38 < Aestrix> Indeed
16:38 < Aestrix> Restart from last save
16:38 < Aestrix> Do more sidequests
16:38 < linkhyrule5> haha
16:38 < Teceler> XD
16:38 < Aestrix> Get more influence with your party members
16:38 < linkhyrule5> gain mroe affection points
16:38 < Aestrix> <3
16:38 < Thatwasademo> Find harder questions
16:39 < linkhyrule5> Hmm... world-weariness...
16:39 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, I don't generally imagine him as world-weary?
16:39 < Aestrix> I like that he's not world weary either, though
16:39 < Teceler> yeah
16:39 < linkhyrule5> There are definitely moments where he goes
16:39 < linkhyrule5> "goddarn it, not again"
16:39 < linkhyrule5> but I mean... the thing about Entelechy is that theere's a /lot/ of e xtremes
16:39 < linkhyrule5> Lots and lots of weird stuff happens, and sure
16:39 < linkhyrule5> lots of it is bad
16:39 < Teceler> yeah, but he has not actually done that on screen XD
16:39 < Teceler> well
16:39 < linkhyrule5> But there's a lot of times where someone does something.. cool, bueatiful, impressive
16:39 < Teceler> I guess a little re: WoD
16:39 < Teceler> yeah
16:40 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, there's a bit with WoD, partially because it's kind of a dark Entelechy in some ways
16:40 < Teceler> I am just trying to describe what I am thinking of with seen-it-all here
16:40 < linkhyrule5> if, well, hoenstly, if ME and his crew weren't around, or people like him
16:40 < Teceler> and also the Gauntlet is annoying :P
16:40 < linkhyrule5> hahah
16:40 < linkhyrule5> yes
16:40 < Aestrix> Oh man. I'm excited for when he finds Facet and it's like, "Everything is neat and tidy! There is a system set up so the world doesn't end! The star's being kept alive and the planet's neatly taken care of!"
16:40 < linkhyrule5> "Ugh. Exploding people. So annoying"
16:40 < linkhyrule5> hahhaah
16:40 < Aestrix> "And oh by the way HORRIBLE FATE WORSE THAN DEATHS!"
16:40 < Teceler> and then
16:40 < Aestrix> "HORRIBLE GOVERNMENT."
16:40 < Aestrix> "MAGICALLY CRIPPLING PEOPLE!"
16:41 < Kel> hahaha
16:41 < linkhyrule5> "Whyyyy. How can you manage your /world/ so /well/ and your /people/ so /awfully/"
16:41 < Teceler> they went Mad With Power? :P
16:41 < Aestrix> Inkspot: "I am /working/ on it."
16:41 < linkhyrule5> But yeah, like, adorable things that people have done:
16:41 < linkhyrule5> Fate magic, grand scale world wide:
16:41 < linkhyrule5> Any kid that wants a dog will end up with one and the ability to pay for it.
16:42 < linkhyrule5> And care for it.
16:42 < Aestrix> Awwww
16:42 < Teceler> ...d'aww
16:42 < Kel> awwwwwww!
16:42 < Aestrix> That's cute
16:42 < linkhyrule5> Entirely unexpected but uncomplained about side effect: POverty is signifcantly rarer /because/ of this.
16:42 < Teceler> XDXDXDXD
16:42 < Kel> heee!
16:42 < Aestrix> Heeeee
16:42 < Teceler> that seems like the thing you'd try to do first, instead of incidentally
16:42 < Kel> Do they get the ability to pay for it *even if* they don't intend to buy it?
16:43 < linkhyrule5> You'd think so, but the person who made it was more of the "let's give to the animal shelter" kind of person than the "let's give to Effective ALtruism" kind of person
16:43 < linkhyrule5> Mages don't necessarily have common sense. This is a theme.
16:43 < Teceler> yeah
16:43 < Aestrix> xD
16:43 < Aestrix> <3
16:43 < linkhyrule5> This time it worked out well, though, and ME d'awwed while facepalming.
16:44 < Aestrix> xD
16:44 < linkhyrule5> "On the one hand, that was silly. On the other, it really is cute, so I can't complain too mcuh."
16:44 < Teceler> anyway, I assumed it was starting by picking up animals abandoned by their people, and expanding as nessecary
16:44 < linkhyrule5> Pretty much - the hard bit was also manipulating fate so that they could afford to keep/feed them
16:44 < Teceler> so buying might not be nessecary
16:44 < Teceler> yeah
16:44 < linkhyrule5> Otherwise you end up with a lot of starving dogs
16:44 < linkhyrule5> The mage /did/ think this through on the small scale.
16:45 < linkhyrule5> Lots of intelligent people without looking at the big picture.
16:45 < Teceler> which would be counterproductive
16:45 < Aestrix> Well that's nice of them
16:45 < linkhyrule5> Entelechy is just lousy with these weird effects
16:45 < Aestrix> Man now I want to ramble about how Facet works and make up half of it as I go
16:45 < linkhyrule5> I kind of try to keep in mind that literally anything can be enchanted
16:45 < linkhyrule5> ^ That's half of what I've been doing!
16:45 < Teceler> you mentioned that stray anti-corruption effect
16:45 < Aestrix> <3!
16:45 < linkhyrule5> Like the reason I brought in ME in the first place
16:46 < linkhyrule5> was because I wanted to writee up Entelechy as a serious RPG setting or something eventually
16:46 < Aestrix> <3
16:46 < linkhyrule5> and I wanted help worldbuilding it, if only to have excuses to come up with things
16:46 < linkhyrule5> so I've just been coming up with thematic things as I go
16:46 < Aestrix> Mhm
16:46 < linkhyrule5> I'll end up trimming a bunch I'm sure, but this is just brainstorming
16:46 < Teceler> well we are good at 'what about X'
16:46 < linkhyrule5> This is a good thing!
16:46 < Aestrix> 'Hey we have this thing how would it affect that thing?'
16:47 < linkhyrule5> The other bgi thinig I want Entelechy to be is consistent
16:47 < Teceler> 'what happens if you put a portable hole inside a bag of holding'
16:47 < Aestrix> 'What happens if these two things are put in the same room?'
16:47 < linkhyrule5> I don't want to end up with a world like D&D where yo can have instant mailmen
16:47 < Aestrix> Pff
16:47 < Teceler> unless it's funny :P
16:47 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
16:47 < Aestrix> xD
16:47 < linkhyrule5> Well, unless it's funny and evolves naturally from existing effects
16:47 < Teceler> yeah
16:47 < Aestrix> Facet was just uh. Me making it all up as I went
16:48 -!- sonatagreen has joined #backstage
16:48 < Aestrix> Literally all of it, I had no plan going in
16:48 < Kel> hi!
16:48 < Aestrix> Hello!
16:48 < sonatagreen> hi
16:48 < Teceler> well, you did a good job, then, it doesn't really show
16:48 < Teceler> hi
16:48 < Thatwasademo> hi
16:48 < Aestrix> Thanks xD
16:48 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - which anticorruption thing?
16:48 < Aestrix> I ~started with a rainbow unicorn avatar~
16:48 < linkhyrule5> I remember the thing with the prime minster's brother's secretary's dog
16:48 < Teceler> the one you mentioned in pms -- yeah, that
16:48 < linkhyrule5> right, yeah
16:49 < linkhyrule5> Right, that wasn't anti-corruption, th at was an intentional corruption thing
16:49 < Teceler> hey, sonatagreen, Thorn has been messing with settings the deadman's switch, do you have more thoughts about that that didn't make it into what was posted?
16:49 < Teceler> ah
16:49 < Teceler> I misremembered
16:49 < linkhyrule5> Someone tried to make government in general incapable of keeping soldiers
16:49 < Teceler> ...
16:49 < linkhyrule5> but their prjudices got in the way and the whole "dogs of the government" thing turned literal
16:50 < Aestrix> ... xD
16:50 < Teceler> and somehow messed up epically enough that the prime minster's brother's secretary could never own a dog
16:50 < Teceler> XD
16:50 < linkhyrule5> and then the whole thing basically misfieed
16:50 < linkhyrule5> yep.
16:50 < sonatagreen> I think I listed most of the things I'm explicitly aware of, but could answer questions even if I did't know the answers before I heard the questions
16:50 < sonatagreen> though I will say that there are other presets besides the ones mentioned
16:50 < Kel> could the prime minister's brother's secretary get really rich by really wanting to own a dog?
16:50 < Teceler> the prime minster's brother's secretary is presumably not a kid
16:51 < Kel> How *does* that spell define kids?
16:51 < Kel> Do all major spells in Entelechy ultimately revolve around dogs?
16:51 < Teceler> yeah, Thorn will probably find the closest preset to what she wants to and then play with as much of the underlying stuff as is exposed
16:51 < Teceler> okay, first, how does the checking in work?
16:52 < Teceler> (the closest preset is probably along the lines of the Tinfoil Hat one, by descriptions)
16:52 < Thatwasademo> kel: hey, at least it's not BEES
16:52 < linkhyrule5> Kel: No, but I like dogs, so theycome to mind :P
16:52 < linkhyrule5> hahahaah
16:52 < linkhyrule5> All hail Skitter, lord of Entelechy
16:52 < Teceler> XD
16:52 < Adelene> pffff
16:52 < linkhyrule5> Kids are roughly defined as "small adorable humans"
16:52 < Aestrix> xD
16:52 < linkhyrule5> 12 is borderline, basically
16:53 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - of course Thorn wants the Tinfoil Hat.
16:53 < linkhyrule5> of course she does.
16:53 < linkhyrule5> Paranoia is a survival trait, but it's still hilarious :P
16:53 < Teceler> now I am imagining someone designing a spell like that one except with random superpowers instead of dogs
16:54 < Teceler> and chaos ensuing
16:54 < linkhyrule5> Congratulations, it's canon
16:54 < Kel> Awww! So if the prime minister's brother's secretary was really *young at heart* and unusually short, and very cute, it would work?
16:54 < linkhyrule5> ME had to unravel taht spell before the world exploded from too many Eidolon's running around.
16:54 < Teceler> oh dear.
16:54 < sonatagreen> The details of checking in are somewhat configurable, but it's usually based on things like logging in to the forum, or logging in and then pressing an "I'm okay" button, or logging in and then pressing an "I'm in trouble" button, or whether you're under duress while doing any of those things.
16:54 < Aestrix> xD
16:54 < Teceler> oh /dear/ XD
16:54 < linkhyrule5> And now you 've defined the Fourth Apocalypse, enjoy.
16:54 < Teceler> oops?
16:55 < sonatagreen> If you want to set up a rule that's based on something else, ask and I'll let you know.
16:55 < linkhyrule5> Kel: What would happen is, the two rules would come into conflict, which the universe wouldn't like
16:55 < Aestrix> I might have just found Inkspot's cut lose song, finally, wooo!
16:55 < Kel> Great! Which one?
16:55 < linkhyrule5> So something in that mix - short, cute, young at heart, wants a dog, prime minister's brother's secretary - woudl change so that it wouldn't come up
16:55 < linkhyrule5> which ever's easiest
16:55 < Aestrix> Dragon Empress https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gtAZIZQCuw
16:55 < linkhyrule5> Most likely? She'd get acat.
16:56 < Teceler> well, Thorn is likely to want to let her muse ping the server for integration with her other deadman switches and being able to set a shorter interval than is otherwise reasonable
16:56 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - oh?
16:56 < linkhyrule5> listening
16:56 < Aestrix> It fits her saving people complex xD
16:56 < linkhyrule5> if she really didn't like cats it'd go up the list, mostly in pretty sad ways so I won't list them
16:56 -!- Sky has joined #backstage
16:56 < Teceler> I am assuming there are some kind of configurable intervals for checking in
16:57 < sonatagreen> Intervals are configurable, yep.
16:57 < sonatagreen> And that would work as long as Thorn and her muse both consent.
16:58 < linkhyrule5> ...
16:58 < Adelene> While you're thinking in this direction, I assume the defaults are sensible enough that Lurker going 'I have no idea what that is, I'm going to ignore it' won't cause any problems?
16:58 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - now I'm imagining Inavet, Dragonborn
16:58 < linkhyrule5> :P
16:58 < Aestrix> Ahahahaha xD
16:58 < Kel> I thought of the default as no deadman switch
16:58 < Aestrix> Inavet: "Hell yes."
16:58 < sonatagreen> Yes to both Ade and Kel
16:58 < linkhyrule5> xD
16:58 < Adelene> *nod*
16:58 < Teceler> and she is going to want to be able to go 'okay, going silent for [specified timeframe]' and have the interval respect that but sound the alarm if she doesn't check in at the end of that for when she has a mission, etc
16:59 < Aestrix> Inavet's totally fine with being the Dragonborn
16:59 < linkhyrule5> I am totally not surprised
16:59 < Aestrix> Slightly bothered by killing dragons and eating their souls, but she'd try to talk most of them down
16:59 < Teceler> which she could probably do manually or make a script for if she had to, but she would be much happier if she doesn't have to
17:00 < Aestrix> "EXCUSE ME HAVE YOU CONSIDERED NOT BURNING DOWN VILLAGES?"
17:00 < Teceler> XD
17:00 < linkhyrule5> hahahaha
17:00 < linkhyrule5> looooool
17:00 < linkhyrule5> that reminds me, I still need t ohave ME figure out an ethical soul-drip for Cassandra
17:00 < Aestrix> "NO? WELL ALLOW ME TO PUT FORTH MY ARGUMENT. FUS RO DAH!"
17:00 < sonatagreen> That only works if you build in the "can say 'going silent'" feature when initially setting the alarm, or otherwise declare in advance that the alarm is reconfigurable/modifiable/disable-able later. (Most of the defaults do allow later modification.)
17:00 < sonatagreen> (maybe all.)
17:01 < Teceler> okay, that works
17:01 < Teceler> she may want a specical passphrase (unless it can get intentionally to that degree) for that, but
17:01 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: were you here when I declared that Thorn was sending her a future version of Civilization?
17:02 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix: hahahaah
17:02 < Teceler> *intentionality
17:02 < sonatagreen> It can detect intent/consent/uncoercedness, yes
17:02 < linkhyrule5> best debates
17:02 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - lol what?
17:02 < linkhyrule5> Sending Inavet?
17:02 < Teceler> Sending Cassandra
17:03 < Teceler> Thorn asked if there was anything she could get her (because the plan was to get Truth Engine answers from Grigori) and she wanted simulations, so
17:09 * kappabeta kappaplops
17:09 < Aestrix> Hello <3
17:11 < Aestrix> At some point Inavet's going to overthrow her government and get a fancy title and be put in charge of the arcany and weird shit department
17:11 < Aestrix> I don't know what her title is going to be
17:11 < Teceler> hee
17:12 < Aestrix> (For anyone curious, she is bemused about being given the spot and doesn't feel at all qualified, but also she's the most experienced non-crippled arcanist that isn't evil, and she's a responsible person, so it defaults to her.)
17:13 < linkhyrule5> loool
17:13 < kappabeta> XDDDDDD
17:13 < Teceler> hee
17:13 < Teceler> (has anyone pointed out that logic to her?)
17:13 < linkhyrule5> well, she has multiple truthy people she can ask for arcany questions, so
17:13 < Aestrix> (Yeah, she's aware of it and agrees with it.)
17:13 < linkhyrule5> ME would love to geek out about magic with her, even if he can't actually cast arcany
17:13 < Aestrix> She's just like, "I've had arcany for maybe three hundred years? Um? Why am I in charge of this department."
17:14 < Aestrix> Oh man. She'd geek out about magic right back
17:14 < Aestrix> If he's obviously responsible she'll also get him magic
17:14 < linkhyrule5> (the ritual probably wouldn't function properly without importation, at which point it's basically Entelechy magic, but he'd still love to learn out about it)
17:14 < Aestrix> Heh
17:14 < Kel> welcome back!
17:14 < linkhyrule5> well, what he /could/ do is establish a template "not-in-Entelechy" self
17:14 < linkhyrule5> and /that/ could get magic, so he'd have something when not in his Truth
17:15 < Aestrix> Yes
17:15 < Aestrix> I am imagining gleeful geekery about magic now xD
17:18 < linkhyrule5> haha
17:18 < Aestrix> I don't know how Entelechy magic works, why does it convert other types of magic into its own?
17:18 < linkhyrule5> that's the other half I made Entelechy as detailed as I did, so I could actually geek out about it OOC
17:19 < linkhyrule5> (in a dungeon, will explain after)
17:19 < Aestrix> Mhm
17:23 < kappabeta> (ME livestream in the inhiding PM thread?)
17:23 -!- PDV has joined #backstage
17:23 < Aestrix> Hello!
17:24 < kappabeta> hi pdv!
17:25 < kappabeta> does pdv even play here, i forget
17:25 < PDV> only a little bit
17:25 < Aestrix> He plays fish I think
17:25 < PDV> Yup Fish is mine
17:25 < kappabeta> aha
17:25 < Aestrix> Score one for my memory, it's a miracle
17:25 < kappabeta> <3
17:25 < PDV> but he is old and stuffy and doesn't do much
17:25 < Aestrix> <3
17:25 < PDV> Also I don't know a ton about his world
17:26 < Aestrix> Mhm
17:26 < PDV> It's straight fic and I'm not sure how to extrapolate
17:26 < Aestrix> My method for that is gather up all of the info you know from what's present, then try to connect it in a way that make sense
17:27 < Aestrix> And then you make up everything else from there
17:28 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - yep
17:29 < kappabeta> yep as in you'll do the thing or yep as in you have?
17:29 < linkhyrule5> he can't arbitrarily penetrate Technocrat wards but he can do most things
17:29 < linkhyrule5> assume it's there for now, I'll do the post after the dungeon
17:29 < kappabeta> k
17:29 -!- PDV has quit
17:29 < linkhyrule5> or, well, I guess you can't post thigns taht are suposed to be after it
17:29 < linkhyrule5> but feel free to plan around it anyway
17:30 < Aestrix> Inkspot asked if Leaf was doing anything about inhiding and has been updated on what's happening, I think that's why Kappa asked xD
17:30 < Aestrix> So now she's joined the sideliners in cheering Mark on
17:36 < linkhyrule5> haha
17:37 < Aestrix> Her go to solution with weird shit is: Ask Leaf. He is probably involved somehow
17:37 < Aestrix> She's been right so far xD
17:37 < kappabeta> XDDDD
17:45 -!- PDV has joined #backstage
17:57 < linkhyrule5> and done
17:57 < linkhyrule5> So Aestrix - basically, it's kind of a compiler thing
17:57 < linkhyrule5> the ritual as is is invoking something Entelechy doesn't have the API for
17:58 < linkhyrule5> which is what I mean by a "different Truth"
17:58 < linkhyrule5> To use it, you have to basically "recompile" it in ENtelechy
17:58 < Aestrix> Ah
17:58 < linkhyrule5> Except at that point you may as well use Entelechy magic, because it's "Turing complete" - you can get basically any effect in its system
17:58 < Aestrix> Okay I think you need to explain that to me as if I'm not a programmer
17:58 < Aestrix> Because I am not xD
17:58 < linkhyrule5> Though that's not quite true: using a recompiled arcany ritual will save him the time of esigning and powering the relevant spell
17:59 < linkhyrule5> it's not something he /couldn't/ do, but it's still a meaningful gift, basically
17:59 < Aestrix> Help I still don't understand the basics xD
17:59 < linkhyrule5> It's much more useful away from Entelechy, where Entelechy magic doesn't work so well
17:59 < linkhyrule5> So, like, you make spells (and things and concepts) out of building blocks
17:59 < Aestrix> Mhm
17:59 < linkhyrule5> but the blocks are different for different truths
17:59 < Aestrix> Yes
17:59 < linkhyrule5> You can get the same pattern - sort of llike you can upload someone from a brain to a computer
18:00 < linkhyrule5> but you need a different set of blocks and the uderlying code will look different
18:00 < linkhyrule5> even though the surface will be the same
18:00 < Aestrix> Yyyyyyes
18:00 < linkhyrule5> That's "recompiling"
18:00 < Aestrix> Ah, okay
18:00 < kappabeta> I volunteer to help translate from Programmer to Aestrix if you are still confused, aestrix
18:00 < linkhyrule5> If you just try to directly move something from one to another, you get "wtf is this" from the universe
18:00 < kappabeta> since I think I speak both these languages
18:00 < linkhyrule5> heh
18:00 < Aestrix> Heh <3
18:00 < linkhyrule5> I'm kind of a CS minor ex-major, yeah >.>
18:00 < kappabeta> <3
18:00 < kappabeta> XD
18:00 < Aestrix> I am an animation major, have mercy <3
18:00 < linkhyrule5> But yeah, this is why ME can't casually visit worlds and kick over sandboxes
18:01 < Aestrix> Because if he did he would not have his magic
18:01 < linkhyrule5> because he and his magic gets the "wtf is this " effect in everyone else
18:01 < Aestrix> Ah
18:01 < Aestrix> Yeah, that's a problem for him xD
18:01 < linkhyrule5> Now, Entelechy magic is so ludicrously powerful that he /can/ override this.
18:01 < linkhyrule5> But he's overriding the /whole universe/ to do it!
18:01 < linkhyrule5> So anything he does gets mulitiplied by a stupidly huge costs multiplier
18:01 < linkhyrule5> So he can scry, which is super cheap
18:01 < Aestrix> When you say the whole universe do you mean Entelechy or the universe he's entering?
18:02 < linkhyrule5> Kind of both, really
18:02 < Aestrix> Or like, the multiverse, all of everything ever?
18:02 < linkhyrule5> You're calling on the Truth of a world Entelechy has a poor connection to
18:02 < linkhyrule5> and then, through tht narrow, low-efficiency pipe
18:02 < linkhyrule5> you're forcing enough magic to override the target universe
18:02 < Aestrix> Ah
18:02 < linkhyrule5> So you not only need a ton of magicc, but most of it doesn't eve /get/ there, as it were
18:02 < Aestrix> Okay, that makes sense
18:02 < Aestrix> Mhm
18:02 < linkhyrule5> This is why ME can throw around stars in Enetelechy
18:03 < Aestrix> But not in literally anywhere else
18:03 < linkhyrule5> but like, making a minor effect in any othe Truth is a serious serious deal
18:03 < linkhyrule5> yeah
18:03 < linkhyrule5> I've had him set up so that he /does/ have the stockpiled mana for one major effect outside Entelechy.
18:03 < Aestrix> That makes sense, thank you! <3
18:03 < linkhyrule5> but.
18:03 < linkhyrule5> Like.
18:03 < linkhyrule5> One.
18:03 < Adelene> *nudges Kel*
18:03 < linkhyrule5> And I will make myself wait an OOC month before he gets anything like it back.
18:03 < Aestrix> Heh
18:03 < Aestrix> Yeah
18:04 < linkhyrule5> So it's a serious restrictio that he will probably burn on Keter or WoD, to make it less awful
18:04 < Aestrix> .... Ina's solution to that problem is 'Pick up things, bring them to ME'
18:04 < Aestrix> Via gate.
18:04 < linkhyrule5> Mostly, he's doing the omnipotent hands-tied gods thing, aand empowering/informing other people so they acn deal with it
18:04 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
18:04 < linkhyrule5> Gate has the same problem, though - this time it's Entelechy going "wtf is this"
18:04 < Aestrix> Pfff
18:04 < Kel> Yes?
18:04 < linkhyrule5> Though it /would/ be cheaper that way
18:05 < linkhyrule5> It'd be like, much much cheaper, though still pretty expensive
18:05 < Aestrix> How does it react to wtf is this from the other angle?
18:05 < Adelene> How interested are you in Dotted Lines getting a kobold friend?
18:05 < linkhyrule5> Instead of (HahaNope)^2, it's just (HahaNope)
18:05 < Kel> Yeah that sounds fun!
18:05 < Adelene> :D
18:05 < Aestrix> I don't know what that means xD
18:05 < linkhyrule5> Right, like, you have the base cost
18:05 < linkhyrule5> and then you multiply by having to do that effect in another Truth
18:05 < Aestrix> Mhm
18:05 < linkhyrule5> and then you multiply by having to do that from Entelechy
18:06 < linkhyrule5> and those two things are both of similar size and both stupidly huge.
18:06 < Adelene> The trigger for that is Lurker deciding that the humans living with Miles are too high-maintenance for one kobold.
18:06 < linkhyrule5> If you bring somethinig to ME, he doesn't have to do the former anymore, but he still has to import it, which means he has to do the latter
18:06 < Adelene> She'll also have to settle in and get started on her magic and stuff first, but.
18:06 < Aestrix> So it's ultimately better but still not great
18:06 < linkhyrule5> So the normal cost is (huge)*(huge), and now it's only (huge), but it's still huge.
18:06 < linkhyrule5> Yeah.
18:06 < Kel> So she would go move in with the Carlsbergs instead?
18:06 < Kel> Oh hey there's another tag I should go respond to that
18:06 < Kel> !
18:06 < Adelene> She personally is pretty firmly attached to Leaf.
18:07 < linkhyrule5> It would definitely help, especially for big things - one thing he may do with his one-off is make a ridonkulous artifact and give it to someone responsible
18:07 < Aestrix> Yeah he needs to actually meet Ina because Ina will go, "What the hell, we could save you a ton of work here, I will transfer things you tell me to you to save you time/mana."
18:07 < linkhyrule5> That would probably be a good iea, yes!
18:07 < Adelene> But she's very quickly going to have the idea of importing more kobolds once she starts feeling overwhelmed trying to keep everybody minimally-per-her-standards stable.
18:07 < linkhyrule5> He will probably notice that Prism and Inkspot are from the same world, and that the government is awful
18:08 < Aestrix> Yeah
18:08 < linkhyrule5> He will probably not pick up on Inkspot being a rebel without being prompted, though, because he respects privacy in general
18:08 < linkhyrule5> Though he might find out on naccident, because he won't care much about the /government's/ privaccy
18:08 < Aestrix> Actually I think he will
18:08 < Aestrix> Inkspot's on another network
18:08 < linkhyrule5> and if he catches a paper about Inkspot being a rebel or something...
18:08 < Aestrix> A very very tiny one that is not evil and censoring
18:08 < linkhyrule5> ...
18:08 < linkhyrule5> That might actually do it, yeah
18:08 < Aestrix> Whereas Prism is on the giant evil network
18:09 < Aestrix> Like, Inkspot _specifically made it_ to get onto the forum.
18:09 < linkhyrule5> That's the sort of big thing that's hard to miss even if you're trying not to look
18:09 < linkhyrule5> ....
18:09 < Aestrix> :)
18:09 < linkhyrule5> There will be eeping noises, won't there
18:09 < Aestrix> From Inkspot?
18:09 < linkhyrule5> Because ME is going to basically say "So. Uh. I can't help but notice you're trying to destroy your evil government of doom.
18:09 < linkhyrule5> I would like to help you!"
18:09 < linkhyrule5> out of the blue.
18:09 < Aestrix> She will eep, but she has a good impression of ME so far so it won't be a big eep
18:09 < linkhyrule5> In a PM! But still.
18:09 < Aestrix> Inkspot: ".... Okay, sure, how can you help?"
18:10 < linkhyrule5> "How would you like ALL THE INFORMATION?"
18:10 < Aestrix> Inkspot: "Because while I have help it's not quite the type to neatly stage a coup over the government."
18:10 < Aestrix> Inkspot: "... I think I love you."
18:10 < linkhyrule5> :D
18:10 < linkhyrule5> xD
18:10 < Teceler> heee
18:10 < linkhyrule5> Because arcany doesn't seem to have wards against scrying, though auracraft might be able to pull off something if they knew to try
18:10 < Aestrix> Yeah
18:10 < Aestrix> Auracraft could maybe do something, but no one would have thought of it
18:10 < sonatagreen> Clippy: It looks like you're trying to overthrow the government! Would you like some help?
18:11 < Aestrix> Because scrying's not a thing they have
18:11 < Aestrix> Ahahaha xD
18:11 < Teceler> XDXD
18:11 < Kel> (If ME would like help with helping with information gathering, DL will soon be in a position to help_
18:11 < Kel> *)
18:11 < Aestrix> They have a soooort of thing like personal warding, but none of them use it unless it's relevant
18:11 < Aestrix> Arcanists do a thing where they can sense other arcanists nearby
18:12 < Aestrix> Ones who are really really good at it (IE, have had a lot of practice) can disguise that thing
18:12 < Aestrix> And be secret arcanists
18:12 < Teceler> Kel, how is Dotted Line's reply to Thorn going?
18:12 < Aestrix> So that might trip scrying a BIT, but not much.
18:13 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, if it's that limited... Like, honestly, I call it scryign, but it's actually pretty localized
18:13 < linkhyrule5> ME basically says "This screen here? It contains an image of that event over there."
18:13 < linkhyrule5> The universe says "nuh-uh," and ME bribes it with mana until it changes it's mind.
18:13 < Aestrix> Oooo.
18:13 < Aestrix> That makes it sound like illusions would trip him up
18:13 < linkhyrule5> It could, if he was less, yannow, old :P
18:13 < Aestrix> :P
18:14 < linkhyrule5> Newbie mages /definitely/ do that.
18:14 < Kel> Teceler, Oh no! I got distracted by trying to find sources for things that count as questionable public activities and then left to do a thing.
18:14 < Teceler> ah
18:14 < Kel> Sorry!
18:14 < Teceler> stuff happens
18:14 < linkhyrule5> ME has a habit of doign the paranoid "Tell me what's really there, in full my-sensory detail (which hs a lot of supernatural senses attached), and also tell me what other peopel are seeing just to be sure"
18:14 < linkhyrule5> thing
18:14 < Aestrix> Aha
18:14 < Aestrix> So it would not trip him up xD
18:14 < linkhyrule5> Really perfect deceiving-the-world Excrucian tricks might trip him up, though I suspect they'd ping as not-right
18:15 < linkhyrule5> he ould tell they were there, but not what was underneath
18:15 < linkhyrule5> But not, just holograms or something would not work.
18:15 < linkhyrule5> sonatagreen: Best Clippy
18:15 < Aestrix> They're not holograms, exactly, but close enough for the definition
18:16 < Aestrix> Man, now I'm excited about ME's "I see you're trying to overthrow your government. Can I help with that?"
18:16 < linkhyrule5> hahah
18:16 < linkhyrule5> One world at a time!
18:16 < Aestrix> Yes <3
18:17 < linkhyrule5> Though CV is kind of waiting on figuring out /how/ and Keter is kidn of not there, so it'll probably be soon
18:17 < Aestrix> Mhm
18:17 < linkhyrule5> I'm going to finish this thing with Thorn and Eclipse, and then send off a bunch more expermientation to Orz and Lioncourt
18:17 < Aestrix> Mhm!
18:17 < linkhyrule5> Fun times!
18:17 < Aestrix> Yes!
18:18 < linkhyrule5> ME gets to save a different world this time!
18:18 < linkhyrule5> This will be a new eperience!
18:18 < Aestrix> xD
18:18 < linkhyrule5> Old original favor, new great taste! :P
18:18 < linkhyrule5> *flavor
18:18 < Aestrix> Ahahaha
18:18 < Aestrix> Ina's done most of the groundwork for hers
18:18 < Aestrix> Like, if she wanted a bloody revolution she could likely have it.
18:19 < Aestrix> It's just, she does not want a bloody revolution. She wants the government to go down neatly and be replaced by a force that can pick up the slack
18:19 < linkhyrule5> ME can do that.
18:19 < Aestrix> See, they will get along fine. xD
18:19 < linkhyrule5> He could do it much much easier if he were in-Truth, because organizations can be enchanted
18:19 < Aestrix> Heh
18:20 < linkhyrule5> which means he could literally make a be-more-moral spell and the government would basically purge itself and reform on its own
18:20 < Aestrix> ... Ina's a bit concerned about the morality there and really wants to know more about how that works!
18:20 < linkhyrule5> (which, yes, is kind of creepy on mind control grounds, but also has the advantage of being pretty bloodless if you're careful)
18:20 < linkhyrule5> Basically, he'd tie the organization closer to (his idea of) morality
18:20 < linkhyrule5> And things would just... kind of occur in that direction.
18:21 < Aestrix> Creepy.
18:21 < linkhyrule5> Thes tronger the spell, the more unlikely events happen
18:21 < Aestrix> Useful, but creepy
18:21 < linkhyrule5> At high ends, you get things like "So this guy got drunk, fired all his managers, then went to take avacation in the bayou"
18:21 < Aestrix> xD
18:21 < linkhyrule5> "We're filling the slots with all these moral people until they get back 'cause we have nothing else to use, frak"
18:21 < Aestrix> Pfffff
18:22 < linkhyrule5> "Oops, the prime minster accidentally fell and hit his head
18:22 < linkhyrule5> He's fine! Really!
18:22 < Aestrix> xD
18:22 < linkhyrule5> But, uh, his idealistic secretary is now controlling things and he wasn't telling her everything..."
18:22 < Aestrix> That's funny, but Ina's seriously creeped out by that
18:22 < linkhyrule5> It can be a little creepy.
18:22 < linkhyrule5> ME is aware of this, but prefers creepy to, yannow, the bloody version
18:22 < Aestrix> Yeah
18:23 < linkhyrule5> Anyway, as it is he can do decent amounts of... not true precog, because time works wonky here
18:23 < linkhyrule5> (time in Entelechy is much more about change than it is about linear progression)
18:23 < Aestrix> Mhm
18:23 < linkhyrule5> But he can do simulationist precog, where he takes everything he knows about the world and just runs it forward
18:23 < linkhyrule5> and since, uh, he kind of knows basically everything if he tries...
18:23 < linkhyrule5> Things are chaotic, his time horizons are closer than they would be if he was just looking ahead
18:23 < Teceler> oops? :P
18:23 < Aestrix> Heh
18:24 < linkhyrule5> but he can do a week or two, easy
18:24 < linkhyrule5> And that means that they can do a lot of careful path-to-victory type shenanigans that would otherwise be too risky
18:24 < linkhyrule5> to replace the government slowly
18:24 < Aestrix> Mhm
18:25 < linkhyrule5> Oh, fun fact:
18:25 < Aestrix> Ina: "Aw, look, we even have people to replace the government with, I went and found and organized them and gave them magic :)"
18:25 < linkhyrule5> (hahaha :D)
18:25 < linkhyrule5> (Responsible rebels! So refreshing.)
18:25 < linkhyrule5> Entelechy organizations have really incomprehensible hierachies when it's important, fyi
18:25 < Aestrix> (She tries to be very responsible in her rebellion!)
18:25 < linkhyrule5> I'll get into this whenever I finally write up the magic, but
18:26 < linkhyrule5> Literally anything can be a spell.
18:26 < linkhyrule5> *Anything*
18:26 < Aestrix> Huh
18:26 < linkhyrule5> Spells are patterns. It absolutely does not matter what the medium is.
18:26 < linkhyrule5> This includes hierachies.
18:26 < linkhyrule5> If you take a really important organization and look at its structure, and unfold it in the right way
18:26 < linkhyrule5> you will get a spell circle.
18:26 < Aestrix> Huh
18:26 < linkhyrule5> And it will have some effect, usually blessing the organization as a whole or giving one member power or something like that
18:26 < Aestrix> Wow xD
18:26 < Teceler> that seems like it might impede utility other ways though
18:27 < sonatagreen> that is amazing
18:27 < Teceler> but yeah, that is impressive
18:27 < linkhyrule5> THanks! It's one of those weird things, yeah
18:27 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - it does, so you don't do it for big big things
18:27 < Aestrix> Yeah
18:27 < Aestrix> It's cool <3
18:27 < linkhyrule5> You do it for little important things
18:27 < linkhyrule5> Your important subcommittee on magic research or something
18:27 < Teceler> because little important things are more flexible?
18:27 < linkhyrule5> Yeah.
18:27 < linkhyrule5> The entire governement is going to be traditional
18:27 < linkhyrule5> your one hundred-person council or something, not so much
18:28 < sonatagreen> It kind of seems like it would be more efficient to just build a dragon and not bother using people as the substrate?
18:28 < linkhyrule5> The world-saving party have this thing where they have dinner parties at carefully planned patterns
18:28 < Aestrix> Useful
18:28 < Aestrix> Pffffffff
18:28 < linkhyrule5> and only invite certain peopel at certain times
18:28 < linkhyrule5> and that's a spellcircle traced in organization-space and time
18:29 < linkhyrule5> sonatagreen - I mean, "dragon" is kind of a weird term
18:29 < linkhyrule5> I'ms till deciding what /I/ mean by it
18:29 < linkhyrule5> By some definitions, that /is/ a dragon, it's jsut not sapient
18:29 < sonatagreen> "spell inscribed in magic"
18:29 < linkhyrule5> By others, less so?
18:29 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, but what does that /mean/?
18:29 < linkhyrule5> THe obvious definition is something like "a spell that can cross mediums"
18:29 < linkhyrule5> Something like the exsurgent virus!
18:29 < linkhyrule5> A pattern that will duplicate itself on any concept nearby
18:29 < sonatagreen> it means there's a spell and you don't bother using people as the substrate
18:30 -!- sonatagreen is now known as sonataway
18:30 < linkhyrule5> Well, people do that too, obviously
18:30 < Teceler> the exsurgent virus can /die in a fire/
18:30 < Teceler> ahem
18:30 < linkhyrule5> But blesing an organization has some benefits, like not being reliant on being in particular place
18:30 < linkhyrule5> looool
18:30 < Teceler> :P
18:30 < linkhyrule5> yeah, it's... not the most pleasant thing
18:30 < linkhyrule5> ME is going to fix that :P
18:30 < linkhyrule5> ME is kind of Hell-oriented in the Nobilis cosmology
18:30 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
18:30 < linkhyrule5> oh hey Eva
18:31 < Teceler> anyway, I get the impression spells need an anchor/target thing?
18:31 < Aestrix> Hello
18:31 < linkhyrule5> speak of Nobilis and she arrives
18:31 < Teceler> by the way, how is ME's post going?
18:31 < linkhyrule5> Thinknig about it! Bouncing around a few things
18:32 < Eva> Oh hi, Nobilis is happening?
18:32 < Teceler> I assumed him finding out who made it would involve scrying where it was before, if possible
18:32 < linkhyrule5> not really, I was just mentionging
18:32 < linkhyrule5> that ME is kind of Hell-oriented
18:32 < Teceler> "<linkhyrule5> ME is going to fix that :P
18:32 < Teceler> <linkhyrule5> ME is kind of Hell-oriented in the Nobilis cosmology
18:32 < Teceler> * Eva has joined #backstage"
18:32 < linkhyrule5> in that his default response to horrible peopel is "can we make the mbetter?"
18:33 < Eva> Pfffthahah
18:33 < Eva> nice.
18:33 < linkhyrule5> And yeah, spells need...
18:33 < linkhyrule5> well, like
18:33 < Eva> Hell in the Nobilis cosmology is a very nice treatment of it IMO
18:33 < linkhyrule5> All spells are a sentence that is Made Truth.
18:33 < linkhyrule5> So in that sense, it needs a target
18:33 < linkhyrule5> Anything that you can state in a sentence, any concept, can be a spell
18:34 < Eva> So they're basically in-your-face Imperial Miracles then
18:34 < linkhyrule5> Something like that, yeah
18:34 < Teceler> but there seem to be certain benefits for doing them with, for example, organization hierarchies, or people wouldn't do that
18:34 < linkhyrule5> Right
18:34 < linkhyrule5> The effects of the spell don't normaly override the whole unvierse
18:34 < linkhyrule5> Normally it's localized by the concept of Space and the concept of Boundaries
18:35 < linkhyrule5> (on a side note, Eva, you may be amused to know that Yukari totally exsits in this world, or an alt of her)
18:35 < linkhyrule5> Anyway, so, whatever you cast the spell /with/ is going to have the strongest part of the effect.
18:35 < linkhyrule5> It's also /guaranteed/ to have the effect.
18:35 < Teceler> ah
18:35 < Teceler> that makes sense
18:35 < linkhyrule5> If you make something like a hierarchy a spell, not only do you not have to worry about re-enchanting your new base if you move
18:36 < linkhyrule5> or losing it if you enter some weird place that nullifies artifacts, or get stripped or something
18:36 < linkhyrule5> you're also guaranteeing maximum power, so long as your goal is "buffing your organization"
18:36 < Teceler> I would expect you'd enchant the orgianization, not the base. Or does that not work?
18:36 < linkhyrule5> You can do that, too - that's how things like the Puppies Working were done
18:36 < linkhyrule5> But it takes more power to do it that way, and it can be broken
18:36 < Teceler> ...would it work the same way if some mage got control over an organization they hated and set it up to debuff them?
18:36 < Teceler> ahh
18:37 < Teceler> *ah
18:37 < linkhyrule5> There's probably a rock somewhere with a spell circle on it that's powering the Puppy Working
18:37 < linkhyrule5> Though you /could/ do it with something more ephemeral.
18:37 < linkhyrule5> Really powerful mages - Mage of the Second Order - can do it in their mindscapes
18:37 < Teceler> and someone who gets their hands on that can dispell the effect?
18:37 < linkhyrule5> Yup.
18:37 < linkhyrule5> I mean ther are other ways to dispell a working, but that's often the easiest.
18:38 < linkhyrule5> And yes, you can debuff an organization like that, but like
18:38 < linkhyrule5> it's really super obvious
18:38 < linkhyrule5> it's not eve nslightly subtle
18:38 < linkhyrule5> You'd have to be clever with, well
18:38 < linkhyrule5> carefully organized dinner parties
18:38 < linkhyrule5> or something :P
18:38 < Teceler> and is 'the spell circle for this spell' a valid scrying target?
18:38 < Teceler> XD
18:38 < linkhyrule5> Why, yes, yes it is.
18:38 < linkhyrule5> Of course, it's also a valid scry-warding target
18:38 < Teceler> of course
18:38 < linkhyrule5> but yeah, that's a thing that can play out
18:39 < linkhyrule5> though part of the problem with that is, you have to specify the spell really well
18:39 < Teceler> is it possible to notice something is scry-warded without challenging the ward itself?
18:39 < linkhyrule5> which means you have to know pretty much exactly what it does
18:39 < Eva> Please tell me that someone has already automated magic in this universe.
18:39 < linkhyrule5> Oh heavens yes
18:39 < Eva> Good, excellent.
18:39 < Teceler> or can that be warded against too?
18:39 < linkhyrule5> ME is currently using a copy of a magitech laptop in his mindsccape to access the forum
18:39 < Teceler> ahahaha ME
18:40 < linkhyrule5> Perfect comprehension is a nonstandard effect, but it uses some pretty serious infowards in lieu of mundane encryption, for example
18:40 < linkhyrule5> and it doesn't care much about protocols - he could bring it into our world and justt use it, if it weren't for Truth problems
18:40 < Teceler> so, infowards, you've mentioned those, what do they do?
18:40 < linkhyrule5> And generally, the way you tell something is warded is that you try to challenge it, but mysteriously forget
18:41 < Teceler> ah
18:41 < linkhyrule5> Directly opposing effects are something Entelechy doesn't like
18:41 < linkhyrule5> Anyone who lives very long sets up probability alarms that go off when something really unlikely happens.
18:41 < linkhyrule5> (THis is, by the way, a possible source of comedy if you want to use it)
18:41 < Teceler> that was why 'without challenging the ward' but noticing mysterious forgetting works too
18:41 < Teceler> yeah, you've mentioned that
18:41 < linkhyrule5> Infowards - conceptual sealing of information.
18:41 < linkhyrule5> Like, if I say "The knowledge of this flask is sealed to this room"
18:42 < linkhyrule5> The knowledge of this flask is /sealed to that room/
18:42 < linkhyrule5> If you carry a note out about that flask, the note is blanked
18:42 < linkhyrule5> yo uforget about the flask
18:42 < linkhyrule5> if you're warded against the direct effect, bu try to tell someone else, the sound is muted or replaced with noise
18:42 < linkhyrule5> the information has been bound within that space
18:42 < Teceler> what if you do 'the knowledge of this flask is sealed to this person' and -- ah
18:42 < Eva> lalilulelo
18:42 < Teceler> presumably the same thing
18:43 < linkhyrule5> yup
18:43 < linkhyrule5> It's kidn of like the Fidelius Charm
18:44 < linkhyrule5> the Fidelius Charm is an example of an infoward
18:44 < Teceler> and if someone tries to take the flask out of the room?
18:44 < linkhyrule5> It becoems invisiible and imperceptible :P
18:44 < Teceler> ...XDXDXDXD
18:44 < linkhyrule5> This is how perfect stealth is done, or one way it can be done.
18:44 < Teceler> I was about to say, that seems like a way to do that, but may not be the easiest
18:45 < linkhyrule5> It's one of the ways, definitely
18:45 < linkhyrule5> One of the more powerfu lones too.
18:45 < linkhyrule5> Now, here's one that might throw you for a loop.
18:45 < linkhyrule5> Differential magics.
18:45 < Teceler> in what sense?
18:45 < linkhyrule5> You can make power from differentials, same as energy
18:45 < linkhyrule5> Falling water makes energy.
18:45 < linkhyrule5> Moving anything makes mana.
18:45 < Teceler> ...oh
18:45 < linkhyrule5> Differences in anything can make mana.
18:45 < Teceler> oh, that's interesting
18:45 < linkhyrule5> The internet generates ludicrous amounts of mana.
18:45 < linkhyrule5> Ludicrous.
18:45 < Teceler> does it have to be actively changing?
18:46 < linkhyrule5> Somewhat, yes.
18:46 < linkhyrule5> There's a supercomputer in ME's basement
18:46 < kappabeta> i am greatly enjoying the nerdery of this magical system
18:46 < linkhyrule5> that does nothing but sort and resort the local "Encyclopedia Britannica"
18:46 < linkhyrule5> Thank yoU! :P
18:46 < linkhyrule5> to generate mana
18:46 < Teceler> so, a sealed space station wouldn't generate power just from that
18:46 < Teceler> and heee
18:47 < linkhyrule5> Well, yes and no
18:47 < linkhyrule5> You can't generate /power/ from that, but you can get some static energy
18:47 < Teceler> ?
18:47 < Teceler> but doing anything with it explodes the space station? :P
18:47 < linkhyrule5> Like, one thing that has been done is balancing something ephemeral like "bloodlust" with something physical like "shields"
18:47 < linkhyrule5> You can make a shield that gets stronger the more people hate you, basically.
18:48 < Teceler> ...huh
18:48 < Teceler> I don't quite see how that works, though
18:48 < linkhyrule5> That one is more... an active spell, basically
18:48 < linkhyrule5> Rather than creating a strong shield
18:49 < linkhyrule5> you're moving a boundary/cliff/wall from "bloodlust" to "the phsyical world"
18:49 < linkhyrule5> Which may or may not be cheaper, depending on how much the other guy hates you :P
18:49 < Teceler> I am not sure how 'bloodlust' is a boundry
18:49 < Kel> So could you get around that sheild with a really apathetic assassin?
18:49 < Teceler> I think is part of the problem here
18:50 < Teceler> oh, and back on the flask-infoward example, what happens if you introduce an identical flask?
18:51 < linkhyrule5> Kel - yup
18:52 -!- sonataway is now known as sonatagreen
18:52 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - it's not a boundary, but if you have a boundaray, you can talk about the differential across that boundary
18:52 < linkhyrule5> Works great for defending bunkers
18:52 -!- mode/#backstage [+qo sonatagreen sonatagreen] by ChanServ
18:52 < linkhyrule5> You have a threshold, and there are more people hating you outside than inside
18:52 < Teceler> ...oh, the shield is the boundry
18:52 -!- PDV has quit
18:52 < Teceler> I think I see
18:52 < linkhyrule5> And I mean, it's impossible to get a truly identical flask?
18:52 < linkhyrule5> But if you did it anyway, with magic
18:52 < linkhyrule5> it would mysteriosuly become imperceptible unless the spell was very carefully designed
18:53 < Teceler> ahahaha
18:53 < linkhyrule5> (if it was, it'd get randomly scraatched by "coincidence" and become not-identical in important ways)
18:53 < linkhyrule5> (like, say, hiding whatever you wanted not-found)
18:53 < linkhyrule5> BUt yeah, that woudl be avalid way of finding out what was on the flask, so it'd get noped by the ward
18:53 < linkhyrule5> barring directly challenging it
18:53 -!- Endo_away has quit
18:53 < Teceler> okay, are nanomanufactured things (from the same blueprint) sufficiently different for that purpose?
18:53 < linkhyrule5> hehe
18:54 < linkhyrule5> Depends on the spell
18:54 < linkhyrule5> YOu could make the spell so that they wouldn't be
18:54 < Teceler> well, that's something
18:54 < linkhyrule5> By default it will go down to *this flask*, which means that while it won't quite violate the Heisenberg it will go right up the the edge of maximum information
18:54 < Eva> So linkhyrule, why is every mage not a lich?
18:54 < linkhyrule5> and in fact can observe the wavefunction perfectly
18:55 < Eva> Wait, infomorph.
18:55 < linkhyrule5> Eva - Partially, because souls exist, but aren't actually very important
18:55 < linkhyrule5> Or like, they are, but they're important the way your heeart is important, not like your brain is important.
18:55 < Teceler> ttants: lich, infomorph
18:55 < linkhyrule5> hah
18:55 < Teceler> (which setting were you thinking of with the lich, Eva?)
18:55 < linkhyrule5> Infomorph mages happen ... complicated. Let's start from the beginning.
18:56 < linkhyrule5> THeyr'e actually related questions
18:56 < linkhyrule5> It has to do with how humans evolved in a setting with magic.
18:56 < linkhyrule5> So, first of all, it might amuse you but should not surprise you that humans are naturally magic
18:56 < linkhyrule5> they probably have nanospell circles for protein manufacture, and so on
18:56 < Teceler> given this setting, of course they are
18:56 < linkhyrule5> Because of course they would, it's a law of physics
18:57 < linkhyrule5> so evolutionw ill exploit that
18:57 < Teceler> ahahaha
18:57 < linkhyrule5> As a side effect, they have... metaphysical, spiritaul anatomy
18:57 < linkhyrule5> There exists the space of potential minds, and that space has conceptual connections with actual minds on Earth.
18:58 < linkhyrule5> At first, this was a pretty useless fact - thre was a pointer from your brain to your mind, but that's all it did, not very useful.
18:58 < linkhyrule5> Until eventually, humans evolved the soul: a metaphysical organ that overrides the brain and body with the next state of the mind.
18:59 < linkhyrule5> As a side effect, ENtelechy humans will survive for a short time without a pulse, a brain, or for that matter a body.
18:59 < linkhyrule5> And, so long as they are quickly properly healed, completely ignore brain damage.
18:59 < Teceler> huh
18:59 < Teceler> that's useful
18:59 < linkhyrule5> This isn't a mage thing, this is just a "because magic exists" thing.
19:00 < linkhyrule5> The thing is, the soul has to be capable of updating to physical senses and whatnot, so it does have some two-way capability
19:00 < Teceler> so if someone gets literally vaporized, and there's a powerful enough mage around to 'heal' them...
19:00 < linkhyrule5> Yup. They're fine.
19:00 < linkhyrule5> If you don't fix them fast, though, the soul will "update" so that it points at the wrong mind
19:00 < Aestrix> That's cool
19:00 < linkhyrule5> and they'll be brain-damaged or dead or whatever
19:00 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - thanks!
19:00 < Teceler> ...why and how does it do that?
19:00 < linkhyrule5> I thought it'd be fun to have the soul be a thing, bu without it being critical to identity
19:00 < Aestrix> <3
19:00 < linkhyrule5> and have actual consequences
19:01 < Teceler> and are the ways to anchor the soul or put it in stasis whatever while you fix the rest?
19:01 < Teceler> (and if you do bring back someone who is brain-damaged because their soul has gone to do whatever, do they get a new one?)
19:02 < Teceler> (or am I not understanding that properly?)
19:02 < linkhyrule5> Oh yes, if a proper mage is around they can easy stasis the soul
19:02 < linkhyrule5> And souls aren't really ... unique to a person
19:02 < linkhyrule5> They're just an arrow, really
19:02 < linkhyrule5> They say "this brain is connected to this mind"
19:02 < Teceler> ...ah
19:02 < linkhyrule5> and then move to say "and now it's connected to this mind, and this mind"
19:02 < linkhyrule5> So if you and someone else swap souls
19:02 < linkhyrule5> well, it's probably a very intimate feeling, but practically it doesn't /do/ much once it's done.
19:03 < Aestrix> Pfff
19:03 < Teceler> so the critcal part is the mind, what happens to that when the soul updates
19:03 < Teceler> XDXD
19:03 < linkhyrule5> You might get occasional flashbacks to the other mind at first, but that'l lwear off fine
19:03 < linkhyrule5> Basically, the mind is a "location" in mind-space
19:03 < linkhyrule5> it never actually changes, but it has a pointer to what the next mind should be
19:03 < linkhyrule5> or the soul does, anyway
19:03 < linkhyrule5> If the soul updates to the wrong mind, you've lost the record of where that mind used to be
19:04 < Teceler> ...can't you past-scry the previous state of the soul?
19:04 < linkhyrule5> and the problem of resurrection increases from "restore from backup" to "locate the old mind"
19:04 < linkhyrule5> Sure you can, but that's harder
19:04 < linkhyrule5> ME does a lot of stuff casually 'cause he's old and powerful
19:04 < linkhyrule5> but past-scrying isn't all that trivial
19:04 < Teceler> but that's expensive
19:04 < Teceler> okay
19:04 < linkhyrule5> Especially not for the whole mind
19:04 < linkhyrule5> If you have leftover blood, it's pretty easy to just fast-grow a clone
19:04 < Thatwasademo> ... this sounds like a potential mechanic for how checkpoints work internally
19:05 < linkhyrule5> and then hook up the mind to the brain, and then you're done
19:05 < Teceler> well, if you had the soul-state then unless the mind gets overwritten then it should work fine?
19:05 < linkhyrule5> Yup!
19:05 < linkhyrule5> Now, let's say you're a powerful mage.
19:05 < Teceler> so you don't have to scry the whole mind, just that
19:05 < Thatwasademo> except for the part where it's magic and checkpoints aren't supposed to be magic
19:05 < linkhyrule5> heh
19:06 < Teceler> checkpoints could be a Sufficently Advanced Tech version of that?
19:06 < Thatwasademo> I mean they basically already are, as far as observed consequences
19:06 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - Good point. Yeah, you can do that, and that's much easier
19:06 < linkhyrule5> It's still harder than regrowing a body, because you have to have two specialties
19:06 < Thatwasademo> You die, you revive with your inventory and memory intact
19:06 < linkhyrule5> and magic is supernaturally hard to learn, so that takes awhile
19:07 < linkhyrule5> but yeah, it's a lot easier than trying to bring an entire mind back from the past.
19:07 < linkhyrule5> But yeah, now, powerful mages.
19:07 < linkhyrule5> The borderline ofr this is what many organizations, Aisilian included, call "Mage of the Second Order."
19:07 < linkhyrule5> Remember what I said about how /anything/ can be a spell?
19:07 < linkhyrule5> How about something you trace in your mindscape?
19:07 < linkhyrule5> Normally, you have to carve things into stone, or shape it out of caly, or draw ruunes.
19:08 < linkhyrule5> But if you're augmented enough, or just good enough at visualilzation, you can fit a spellcircle into your mind.
19:08 < linkhyrule5> And then, 99% of the time, you blow yourself up, because you just cast a fireball in your /mindscape/ instead of the physical world.
19:08 < Teceler> oops?
19:08 < linkhyrule5> Aisilian: /facepalm
19:08 < linkhyrule5> But the ones who realize "wait, no, that's dumb"
19:08 < Thatwasademo> ha
19:08 < Teceler> well, I would think you'd want to cast something that was safer
19:08 < Aestrix> xD
19:08 < linkhyrule5> You'd think.
19:08 < Teceler> that seems like an obvious precaution to take
19:08 < linkhyrule5> You, however, are more sensible than most people on the planet.
19:09 < linkhyrule5> Remember that magic requires no skills other than magic.
19:09 < Aestrix> I mean I wouldn't want to cast a fireball spell in my head either
19:09 < Thatwasademo> was this the world where mages and common sense do not typically intersect
19:09 < linkhyrule5> Basically.
19:09 < Aestrix> Not without knowing what it did
19:09 < linkhyrule5> I mean, lots of people /do/ get past that hurdle
19:09 < Teceler> that also sounds like a thing that after one person realized that would become common procedure for teaching mages
19:09 < linkhyrule5> but you do get a lot of people go boom.
19:09 < Teceler> unless teaching mages is not a thing that happens at all
19:09 < linkhyrule5> It does, but - apocalypses.
19:09 < Teceler> ah
19:09 < linkhyrule5> ME and all try to run around setting up nations and whatnot afterwards
19:09 < Aestrix> ~apocalypses~
19:09 < Thatwasademo> apocalypses are so tedious
19:09 < linkhyrule5> but education is kind of unavoidably bad for awhile
19:09 < linkhyrule5> haahah
19:09 < linkhyrule5> yeah
19:10 < Aestrix> Why are there so many apocalypses?
19:10 < linkhyrule5> Because once you've learned iit?
19:10 < Teceler> see previous re: mages
19:10 < Aestrix> Just like, everyone has magic, things just sort of go wrong?
19:10 < linkhyrule5> Magic is really really easy.
19:10 < linkhyrule5> And really, really powerful.
19:10 < Aestrix> Ah.
19:10 < linkhyrule5> So yes, things go wrong. Constantly.
19:10 < Aestrix> Yeah, apocalypses
19:10 < linkhyrule5> ME is on the upper end of the scale, which means that when things go wrong, he sticks around, and the ngoes to fix things.
19:10 < linkhyrule5> ALong with the rest of his Final Fantasy buddies.
19:10 < Aestrix> (Ina: "...." *scoots slowly away from ME's truth* "I'll keep mine apocalypse free, thanks.")
19:11 < linkhyrule5> hahahaha
19:11 < Teceler> xd
19:11 < Teceler> ER
19:11 < Teceler> XD
19:11 < linkhyrule5> Yeaaah, iif you learn magic, don't spread it around
19:11 < linkhyrule5> Anyway, so, yeah. Smart people hit that point, and back off.
19:11 < Aestrix> (Ina: ".... Uh, oops? My entire thing is that I teach magic?")
19:11 < Teceler> partly that universe is well set up to make magic really really easy
19:11 < linkhyrule5> They first figure out a metaspell that says "Manifest the following spell in the real world"
19:12 < linkhyrule5> ^ that. Ina can teach hers all she wants, but teaching Entelechy magic is a great way to blow up the world
19:12 < Aestrix> Heh <3
19:12 < linkhyrule5> Entelechy itself is alost cause because it's easy to find there, but other worlds will not have that problem by default
19:12 < linkhyrule5> Anyway, so yeah, now you're casting spells in your mind.
19:12 < linkhyrule5> Now here's the thing.
19:12 < linkhyrule5> Mana?
19:12 < linkhyrule5> Is the stuff of existence.
19:12 < Teceler> stick to teaching arcany, Ina
19:12 < linkhyrule5> It defines truth.
19:12 < linkhyrule5> Things are true because they have mana.
19:12 < Aestrix> Ina: "Oh, trust me, I will."
19:12 < Thatwasademo> this talk of apocalypses has made me want to try to figure out what the Orb of Zot actually does
19:13 < linkhyrule5> The laws of physics exist because their concepts have mana.
19:13 < Thatwasademo> that is so dang powerful
19:13 < linkhyrule5> Massive power source?
19:13 < linkhyrule5> But the thing is, mana splashes.
19:13 < linkhyrule5> People don't control mana perfectly.
19:13 < linkhyrule5> In fact, controlling mana is really really hard
19:13 < linkhyrule5> generally you kind of sacrifice things "at" your spell and hope it works.
19:14 < linkhyrule5> Well, there's more to it than that - prepare a clean, bounded environment, sacrifice thinigs within the spell circle, etc
19:14 < linkhyrule5> but fundamentally, there's nothing really controlling mana
19:14 < linkhyrule5> Your will can do it a little? More for some people, less for others?
19:14 < linkhyrule5> But not a massive massive scale.
19:14 < linkhyrule5> But if you're doing things in your /mind/...
19:14 < linkhyrule5> Mana ends up in your mind, in your soul, in the /way yo uare/.
19:14 < linkhyrule5> And that /way you are/ becomes real.
19:14 < linkhyrule5> Very real.
19:15 < linkhyrule5> So real that after a certain point, you don't need your body, or even your soul, to think.
19:15 < Aestrix> Ooo.
19:15 < linkhyrule5> So real that if someone destroys your current mind, your mind goes "that's not future me" and points to the right next mind anyway.
19:15 < Teceler> huh
19:15 < linkhyrule5> So real that you are essentially an infomorph, written into the rules of reality itself.
19:15 < linkhyrule5> That is a Mage of the Second Order.
19:15 < Aestrix> Snazzu
19:15 < linkhyrule5> It takes a lot of training and a lot of power and some very careful self-agumentation
19:15 < Aestrix> Snazzy*
19:16 < linkhyrule5> but it is, bar torching, the clearest form of immortatliy I've seen.
19:16 < linkhyrule5> And even torching won't handle all mind-stuff.
19:16 < linkhyrule5> A Mage of the Second Order is /very, very/ immortal.
19:16 < Teceler> until they next get killed, at least
19:16 < linkhyrule5> yah
19:16 < linkhyrule5> The only way to kill a Mage of the Second Order
19:17 < linkhyrule5> is to /completely retcon them out of existence/
19:17 < linkhyrule5> Drain the mana from their minds and concepts
19:17 < Aestrix> Pff
19:17 < linkhyrule5> so that they don't exist, and never existed, and never could have existed.
19:17 < Teceler> I would expect it to be to social them into not wanting them to exist
19:17 < Teceler> *into not wanting to exist
19:17 < linkhyrule5> Or else they just stick around in mind-space, and because they can cast spells with their minds by definition...
19:17 -!- Eva has quit
19:17 < linkhyrule5> Or that, if you have the right kind of subtle memetics
19:18 < linkhyrule5> Though a lot of people have lookahead wards that just define suicidal future selfs as "not-me"
19:18 < linkhyrule5> most people you'd really want to kill will have thought of that
19:18 < Teceler> (yes, I am thinking of Golden Morning here)
19:18 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
19:18 < linkhyrule5> Golden Morning could've happened in Entelechy, yeah.
19:18 < linkhyrule5> Scion as a weird dragon thing would kind of fit the whole Wyrm (sorry ,WOrm) theme, too
19:18 < linkhyrule5> :P
19:19 < Teceler> horrible, horrible puns :P
19:19 < Aestrix> <3
19:20 < Teceler> so, you said something about specialties earlier?
19:20 < linkhyrule5> but yeah, taht last bit that Teceler point ed out
19:20 < linkhyrule5> that the easy way to kill a 2nd Order Mage is to social them out of existence
19:20 < linkhyrule5> is why Entelechy is so lousy with memetic threats
19:20 < linkhyrule5> and why ME's wards against such are so good.
19:20 < Teceler> ...ah
19:20 < Teceler> smart ME
19:20 < linkhyrule5> Because memetics, and socials, are much easier to use than outright retcon.
19:21 < linkhyrule5> ME used to be remarkably paranoid.
19:21 < linkhyrule5> He's kind of gotten a little soft, but he'll remember every now and then to be suepr careful with new things
19:21 < linkhyrule5> He has the old habits, but he occasionally ignores them.
19:21 < Teceler> how does 'stop causing trouble or I will retcon you out of existence' work as a threat? :P
19:21 < linkhyrule5> hahahah
19:21 < Teceler> presuming the ability to back it up
19:21 < linkhyrule5> Pretty darn well.
19:22 < linkhyrule5> Especially after he dealt with She Who Lives in Her Name
19:22 < linkhyrule5> or, well, was one of the people in that party.
19:22 < Teceler> ahaha
19:22 < linkhyrule5> So, specialties.
19:22 < linkhyrule5> As always, the specialist beats the generalist at the same xp level
19:22 < Teceler> within their area of specialty
19:22 < linkhyrule5> you can get more bang out of your buck if you focus, thoug hobviously it's a good idea to eventually pick up all of magic
19:22 < linkhyrule5> right
19:23 < linkhyrule5> Or in general, the specialist is more useful, because trading favors and whatnot
19:23 < linkhyrule5> the generalist is more generally useful, but only as a solo operative
19:23 < Teceler> a group of specialists,yeah, thatmakessense
19:23 < linkhyrule5> So people tend to specialize
19:23 < Teceler> *makes sense
19:23 < linkhyrule5> Especially since magic is hard to learn.
19:23 < linkhyrule5> These are less formal specializations and more conceptual links
19:23 < linkhyrule5> Touhou youkai could all be specializations
19:24 < linkhyrule5> "Shadows," "Boundaries," "Negentropy"
19:24 < linkhyrule5> "Life"
19:24 < linkhyrule5> Those are kind of broad for what I'm imagining, honestly
19:24 < linkhyrule5> but that sort of thing
19:24 < linkhyrule5> Resurrecting someone without their soul requires .. .really, three
19:24 < linkhyrule5> Scrying-over-connections, to find their soul at all
19:24 < linkhyrule5> Time manipulation, to find their soul in their past
19:25 < linkhyrule5> Life manipulation, to regrow their body
19:25 < linkhyrule5> and then reconnecting the soul is something basically anyone can do, because connections are what all of magic have in common
19:26 < Teceler> so, how many of those are there?
19:26 < Teceler> the specializations, I mean?
19:26 < Teceler> or ar ethey not that formalized?
19:26 < linkhyrule5> As many as there are stars in the sky
19:26 < linkhyrule5> to be poetic :P
19:27 < linkhyrule5> not formalized
19:27 < linkhyrule5> Any "consistent mode of thought" will work
19:27 < linkhyrule5> a valid specialization that makes sense for one person may not for others
19:27 < linkhyrule5> Magic is all about taking human thoughts, your thoughts
19:27 < Teceler> but there are things you can't stick together in one specialization?
19:27 < linkhyrule5> and then decomposing them into the language of the universe, the 16 runes
19:28 < linkhyrule5> Mm. More that it'd be pretty hard to imagine a human that would lump, I dunno, "manipulation of life" and "manipulation of color" in one concept
19:28 < linkhyrule5> If it's doable it's doable, it's not impossible
19:28 < Teceler> 'manipulation of things' :P
19:28 < linkhyrule5> haha
19:28 < linkhyrule5> That would be too general :P
19:28 < Teceler> I figured, but
19:29 < linkhyrule5> but yeah
19:29 < linkhyrule5> that's basically the outline of how magic works
19:29 < Teceler> well, if you conceptualize life in the form of colored patterns, or something
19:29 < Teceler> ah
19:29 < linkhyrule5> heh
19:30 < linkhyrule5> Cardeae might pull it off, then
19:30 < Teceler> it seems like someone who particularly wanted some things and could manage to imagine it right would have an advantage
19:30 < Teceler> over someone who also wanted those things but needed multiple specialitie to get it
19:31 < Teceler> also, how is 'all of magic' defined for purposes of getting a general understanding?
19:32 < linkhyrule5> Theoretical omnipotence, basically
19:32 < linkhyrule5> Able to use any of the sixteen runes with ease for arbitrary purposes
19:33 < Teceler> so -- okay, is a speciality a rune + some area?
19:33 < linkhyrule5> Knowledge of their various forms under reification and ephemeralization, and their effects
19:33 < linkhyrule5> You know what, that's probably a better way to think about it
19:33 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, it's an application of a rune to a particular effect
19:33 < Teceler> --uh, reification and ephemeralization?
19:34 < Teceler> and the area has to have a certain breadth, I assume. Or is limited to a certain breadth, rather
19:36 < linkhyrule5> yeah
19:36 < linkhyrule5> Like "using fire to destroy things" might beo ne thing
19:36 < linkhyrule5> "using fire to clean things" might be another
19:36 < Teceler> fire-destruction
19:37 < Teceler> but, like, fire-manipulation could be used to do both of those
19:37 < linkhyrule5> "making fire contagious" would be a two-rune one, fire and metal
19:37 < linkhyrule5> yeah, that'd be kind of a second order one
19:37 < linkhyrule5> Refification and ephemeralization - modifiers on runes
19:37 < linkhyrule5> Fire reifiied is a singularity. Fire ephemeralized is the concept of consumption.
19:38 -!- sonatagreen has quit
19:38 < Teceler> ...huh
19:38 < Teceler> this seems like the kind of thing for which a spreadsheet is useful
19:39 < linkhyrule5> Fire ephemeralized reified is the quality of consuming-ness, sort of like greed or hunger
19:39 < linkhyrule5> I could, but it goes down oa ladder like the alethiometer
19:39 < linkhyrule5> and it goes waaaay down.
19:39 < linkhyrule5> I mostly come up with spells on the fly
19:39 < Teceler> how does it do that?
19:39 < linkhyrule5> Fire ephemeralized reified is not fire
19:40 < Teceler> ...ah, you can stack them
19:40 < linkhyrule5> yup
19:40 < linkhyrule5> and they don't cancel
19:40 < Teceler> well it would at least be worth having a reference for the first few levels :P
19:40 < Teceler> okay, so you get fire e, fire r, fire e r, but then what?
19:41 < Teceler> do you just keep adding e/r?
19:42 < linkhyrule5> you can add e or r at any point
19:42 < linkhyrule5> fire e, fire ee, fre eee
19:42 < linkhyrule5> though at some point it starts getting nonsensical
19:42 < Teceler> how far down can you go before that? Five levels? 100?
19:42 < linkhyrule5> Like, my original post, first post
19:42 < linkhyrule5> Infinite, in theory, but it gets weirder and weirder for humans
19:43 < linkhyrule5> so I don't really go that far when I do it myself
19:43 < Teceler> 'before it starts getting really weird', I meant :P
19:43 < linkhyrule5> ME probably knows how it works down to every chain of 100 or something
19:43 < linkhyrule5> Usually only a couple in a row. You can get a lot farther by alternating.
19:43 < linkhyrule5> Like, my first ppost.
19:43 < Teceler> I'm looking at that right now
19:44 < linkhyrule5> [Location] is broken down into [Point] [Space]
19:44 < Teceler> ...oh, is that what
19:44 -!- Endovior has joined #backstage
19:45 < linkhyrule5> [Point] is broken into [Lightning Reified Reified Ephemeralized] - Lightning -> strike/vector -> target -> geoemetric point
19:45 < Aestrix> Hello!
19:45 < linkhyrule5> o/
19:47 < Aestrix> Ugh, Hollow Art added a stupid watermark. Kappa saved me with his awesome Kappa powers, but ugh.
19:49 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix, did we overwhelm you with magibabble?
19:49 < linkhyrule5> sorry about that
19:49 < linkhyrule5> it's a fun system, so I like to babble on about it :P
19:49 < Aestrix> I think I kept up reasonably well!
19:50 < Aestrix> But also I found the perfect screenname for Rae
19:50 < Aestrix> mountains_themselves
19:50 < linkhyrule5> heh
19:50 < linkhyrule5> yeah
19:50 < Teceler> ooh
19:50 < linkhyrule5> very appropriate
19:50 < Teceler> yeah
19:50 < Aestrix> I milked his passionate speech for cool quotes <3
19:50 < Aestrix> :)
19:51 < Teceler> okay, looking at the creation myth, are those the basic those two things (spelling) for each element?
19:52 < linkhyrule5> basically, yeah
19:52 < kappabeta> i enjoy this magic system Greatly
19:52 < linkhyrule5> you can modify any other element with these
19:52 < linkhyrule5> :D
19:52 < Teceler> water is confusing me
19:52 < linkhyrule5> I wanted to know, as much as possible, exactly how my characters were casting magic
19:52 < linkhyrule5> Water is the concept of completion.
19:53 < Teceler> okay
19:53 < linkhyrule5> Among other things, it fills out forms, molds, ideas...
19:53 < linkhyrule5> To some exstent it can outright solve problems
19:53 < Teceler> but I am having trouble with the distinction between 'completing' and 'completion'
19:53 < linkhyrule5> The thing-that-is-completing, versus the concept of completion
19:53 -!- sonatagreen has joined #backstage
19:54 < linkhyrule5> A thing that is Water, or giving someone a completion characteristic
19:54 < Teceler> it might be clearer with different words, but okay
19:54 < linkhyrule5> versus making something impossible to complete, say
19:54 < Teceler> which would be...
19:55 < linkhyrule5> Water ephemeralized and negated with void.
19:56 < linkhyrule5> Two-rune concept
19:56 < Teceler> huh
19:57 < linkhyrule5> well, that would be "incompletion" in general
19:58 < Teceler> okay, going by that a lot of the basic reification and ephemeralization are nearly synonyms. What is, in general, the difference between the two?
19:58 < Teceler> Or in other words, if you take something and reify or ephemeralize it, what transformation does it undergo?
20:00 < linkhyrule5> Reification i sto make something more of a noun
20:00 < linkhyrule5> they were orignally outright "make it a noun" and "make it averb"
20:01 < linkhyrule5> ephemeralization is "making it more action-y or conceptual"
20:01 < linkhyrule5> Reification is about qualities and things, ephemeralization is about concepts and general ideas
20:04 < Teceler> Is there a distinction here between, say, Earth Reified Ephemeralized and Earth Ephemeralized Reified?
20:05 < linkhyrule5> ther can be!
20:05 < kappabeta> if I were you I would TOTALLY keep a spreadsheet just to note down all of the things I had actually established about how X noined and verbed this many times in that order pans out XD
20:05 < kappabeta> *nouned
20:05 < Teceler> ick, that makes it even more complicated
20:06 < Teceler> because then it's permutations, not just combinations
20:06 < Teceler> and yeah, what Kappa said, except I am already working on one to try to get a better idea of this
20:08 < linkhyrule5> haha
20:08 < linkhyrule5> yeah, probably
20:08 < linkhyrule5> and yeah, it's permutations
20:08 < linkhyrule5> if you make one send it t ome, I am lazy :P
20:09 < linkhyrule5> I probably will end up making a chart at some point, though I dont' know how many spells I will personally make
20:10 < linkhyrule5> probably a lot though!
20:16 < Kel> (Teceler, I finally responded, sorry about the delay)
20:17 < Teceler> Kel: I saw, I was poking at that and then got distracted by magic explainations
20:18 < kappabeta> oh hey, who wants to help me out with a magic system i'm designing XD
20:19 < Teceler> is this 'ask questions from various angles' kind of help? :P
20:19 < kappabeta> sooort of
20:19 < kappabeta> I'm trying to like... do the "divide conceptspace up into a set number of elements" thing
20:20 < Teceler> ...ah, that's tricky
20:20 < kappabeta> and I have a bunch I really like but it's hard for me to tell what is *missing*
20:20 < kappabeta> from this set
20:20 < kappabeta> and I thought more eyes on it might help
20:20 < Teceler> that makes sense
20:20 < kappabeta> the elements are Chaos, Void, Sun, Moon, Life, Ward
20:20 < kappabeta> the concepts are...
20:20 < kappabeta> *pastes from spreadsheet*
20:21 < kappabeta> Chaos transform, destroy, change, formless, random
20:21 < kappabeta> Void nothing, absence, vacuum, cold/dark/still
20:21 < kappabeta> Sun creation, heat/light/motion, beginning
20:21 < kappabeta> Moon reflection, copying, connection, continuing, innovation
20:21 < kappabeta> Life expansion, self-replication, organic, physical senses, volition
20:21 < kappabeta> Ward protect, maintain, structure, permanence
20:21 < kappabeta> (Sun and Moon were originally Primary and Secondary, that's why Moon has such largely un-moon-like things)
20:22 < Teceler> stasis, solidity? -- I guess that comes under Ward
20:22 < kappabeta> yeah
20:23 < linkhyrule5> Boundaries, separation, time
20:23 < kappabeta> ooh, hmm.
20:24 < kappabeta> I could *see* folding boundaries/separation under Ward, but I could also see breaking them out into their own thing
20:27 < kappabeta> having trouble naming it though
20:27 < Kel> Edge?
20:27 < kappabeta> ooh!
20:28 < kappabeta> I like
20:28 < Kel> Yay!
20:28 < kappabeta> <3
20:29 < Teceler> okay, so, if (hypothetically) the deadman's switch triggered when DL was kidnapped by someone from his own world, what does he expect to happen?
20:30 < Kel> Part of his concern is that someone would show up in an attempt to rescue him but not his family, which would possibly endanger them, and probably separate them
20:31 -!- Endovior has quit
20:32 < Kel> And his other concern is that he would get in trouble for trying to interfere with the SSP's helpful actions if they noticed that his switch would apply to them as well
20:32 < Teceler> He could probably put something hinting to that effect in his deadman's switch message. Like 'please make sure my family have not been kidnapped by whatever extradimensional threat'
20:32 < Teceler> that one is trickier
20:32 < Teceler> *have not also been kidnapped
20:34 < Teceler> Thorn is trying to work out how to hint that he should of course work on that but not actually accomplish it
20:35 < kappabeta> XDDDD
20:35 < kappabeta> Luckily, DL has already been rescued from Night Vale
20:35 < Teceler> yeah
20:35 < Teceler> but this pm-set is taking place before that because Strange Space-Time Shenanigans
20:35 < kappabeta> hee
20:36 < Kel> He is very glad to be gone
20:36 < Teceler> (Kel, when /do/ you want to switch over to after that?)
20:36 < Teceler> yeah, I can imagine
20:36 < Teceler> I've been wondering reading that thread, what happened with his step-daughter?
20:36 < Kel> She went with him!
20:37 < Teceler> oh, she's just not been mentioned much? Okay, that wasn't terribly clear
20:37 < Teceler> just, fyi
20:37 < Kel> I don't actually have a totally clear personality for her (or a face) but I didn't think he would just abandon her and then it was too late
20:37 < kappabeta> wait, it wasn't terribly clear that stepdaughter was there?
20:37 < kappabeta> she like, spoke
20:37 < Teceler> ...I must have missed that
20:37 * Teceler goes and rereads
20:38 < Kel> She was the one with the turquoise tiles
20:38 < Kel> Because she has no face
20:38 < Teceler> okay I am offically even more confused
20:38 < Kel> Okay which is the confusing?
20:38 < Kel> sorry
20:38 < Teceler> I think I got some characters mixed up?
20:39 < Kel> Janice is his step daughter, and Steve is Dotted Lines
20:39 < Kel> And I think those are the only characters explicitly mentioned, other than Leaf who is Miles
20:41 < Kel> Added (Minor characters) as profile name for blank account
20:41 < Kel> Does that help, or was it something else?
20:42 < Teceler> No, I still feel like someone who was previously mentioned is missing here
20:42 < Teceler> I was just wrong about who
20:42 < Kel> His wife decided not to go?
20:42 < Teceler> ah
20:42 < Kel> Because she has been mentioned maybe twice and I don't know enough about her to have a hope of RPing her
20:42 < Kel> *mentioned ~twice in canon
20:45 < sonatagreen> kappa, I'm not sure what you mean about not brain that
20:45 < sonatagreen> like, do you not understand what the request means, or do you not feel up to doing it?
20:45 < kappabeta> I mean I don't have the mental capacity right now to go through the list and categorize the threads by which ones are ongoing
20:45 < kappabeta> so, second thing
20:46 < Teceler> Kel: That did not get mentioned in the thread, thus confusion, especially since the pms haven't been exported yet
20:48 < kappabeta> short trip has now concluded
20:54 < Kel> oh my goodness baby kobolds playing object based hide and seek!
20:54 < Kel> ohno!
20:55 < Teceler> ...where?
20:56 < kappabeta> http://manyworlds.boards.net/post/3130/thread there probably
20:56 < Kel> backstage, just being discussed in kobolding notes
20:56 < Teceler> ah
20:56 < Adelene> ^^
20:56 < kappabeta> it is much cute.
20:57 < kappabeta> So much.
20:57 < Kel> tooooooooooo much cute
20:57 < Adelene> *giggle*
20:57 < Kel> it's dangerous!
20:57 < Kel> (tiny baby kobolds!)
20:57 < Adelene> ^^
20:57 < kappabeta> do tiny baby kobolds have li'l floppy ears
20:57 < kappabeta> an important question
20:57 < Adelene> yep. ^^
20:58 < kappabeta> :D
20:58 < kappabeta> good.
20:58 < Adelene> *giggle*
20:58 < Kel> okay well clearly they cannot go onto the forum they are a memetic hazard
20:58 < Kel> because they are too cute!
20:58 < Adelene> heee ^^
21:00 < Aestrix> <3 <3
21:01 < Adelene> *hmms* *goes to look up how long kobold eggs take to hatch in canon*
21:03 < Kel> Oh Teceler, you asked earlier, I'm planning to officially switch over to after the rescue right after this PM collection with Thorn.
21:03 < Teceler> this pm collection? [confused]
21:03 < Kel> The one currently happening via time shenanigans?
21:03 < Teceler> yeah
21:03 < Teceler> but what do you mean by the collection?
21:04 < Kel> Like, the ones that all need to happen at the same time
21:04 < Teceler> ah
21:04 < Teceler> yes
21:05 < Teceler> but I was wondering if you had specific plans for an end-point on that
21:05 < Kel> Oh!
21:05 < Kel> no I don't, just whenever seems like a good point
21:05 < Adelene> Hm. Unclear. Seems like six months is probably reasonable?
21:06 < Kel> for the eggs?
21:06 < Adelene> yup
21:06 < Adelene> 'cause kobolds are little.
21:06 < Kel> (precious tiny ones)
21:06 < Adelene> ^^
21:06 < Kel> and then DL will say he's going on a short trip to Nexus
21:06 < Kel> and time will have passed via temporal shenanigans
21:06 < Kel> and he will be officially rescued?
21:07 < Teceler> and Thorn will go ''a short trip to Nexus'? Um, okay, be careful and such' and hope that she is reading that correctly
21:08 < Kel> wait, why would that be concern-inducing?
21:09 < kappabeta> I really need to have Leaf respond to that PM from Tyche
21:09 < Teceler> it's not, exactly? It's kind of...
21:09 < Teceler> yes, you do, are we assuming temporal shiengans or that Leaf got distracted by the mess with inhiding?
21:10 < kappabeta> I am having difficulty with this decision
21:10 < Adelene> I strongly prefer for Lurking to get to Nexus before the inhiding thing, which means baring really *weird* time shenanigans that DL has to be there before that too.
21:10 < kappabeta> DL is definitely there before that
21:10 < kappabeta> DL's arrival was like a day or two before that
21:11 < Teceler> yeah, but Firewall probably spent a while deliberating over what to do
21:11 < Teceler> ...probably not more than three days under the circumstances, though
21:12 < Kel> Okay, which all events need to have happened in a specific order? I'm getting paper
21:12 < Teceler> okay, first, you have to understand that Thorn is paranoid and Leaf is... actually getting a fair amount of trust for someone she has such little information about, for various reasons, but that doesn't come out to a lot?
21:12 < Teceler> ahaha
21:13 < Adelene> [gdocs link redacted] <- Lurker's timeline so far
21:13 < Teceler> And then, well, she is hoping that there is either a Plan here or that they will decide to stay, but in either case there is a risk from icly unspecificed organizations if they puzzle this out
21:13 < Teceler> so that's the two parts of the 'be careful'
21:14 < kappabeta> heh
21:14 < Teceler> does that make sense?
21:14 < Adelene> I haven't pinned down a canonical time for Leaf to have picked Lurker up from the cave but it's probably no later than early this morning, the 28th.
21:14 < kappabeta> and it can have definitely been Before The Inhiding Mess
21:15 < kappabeta> do you want to do that thing, ade?
21:15 < Teceler> (You may have noticed if you read her exported pms that she was going 'I do not know which side I want to be on here, so I am not sharing critical information from either' for quite a bit there)
21:15 < Adelene> Which thing, the roleplay?
21:15 < kappabeta> yeah
21:15 < Adelene> Right now I'm kinda fighting sleep. In the morning definitely, though.
21:15 < kappabeta> k
21:15 < Adelene> *nuz*
21:16 < kappabeta> <3
21:16 < Adelene> ^^
21:16 < Teceler> (she should probably go tell Leaf and Andrew about the thing, but they kind of obviously already know)
21:16 < linkhyrule5> oh, and Teceler - tag
21:16 < linkhyrule5> (finally >.>)
21:16 < Teceler> alright, let me finish this pm
21:17 -!- Kel is now known as kelphonecall
21:17 < Teceler> Kel: pm sent
21:17 < Teceler> ah
21:18 < linkhyrule5> oh, kappabeta - I finally sent the thing
21:18 < Aestrix> Linkhyrule5 - you used brackets instead of < >
21:19 < linkhyrule5> lol, kay
21:19 < linkhyrule5> is t hat the standard?
21:19 < Aestrix> <3
21:19 < Teceler> yeah I did that earlier too
21:19 < Teceler> dw uses html
21:19 < Aestrix> Mhm
21:19 < kappabeta> on DW you have to use thing or it doesn't thing format, yeah
21:19 < linkhyrule5> ohhh t hat thing
21:19 < Teceler> forum uses bbcode
21:19 < linkhyrule5> I thought yo uwere talking about the PM
21:19 < Aestrix> Oh, no xD
21:19 < Aestrix> I should have specified, sorry
21:19 < linkhyrule5> Also, Aestrix, at this rate I may be open for Inavet shenanigans tomorrow, since there's not much going on in the way with Keter and he's still hashing out what to do with CV's world
21:20 < Aestrix> Mhm ^_^
21:20 < sonatagreen> is Keter someone in this channel?
21:20 < kappabeta> ooh, inavet shenanigans!
21:21 < Aestrix> Nemo's Keter, he's not here I think
21:21 < Aestrix> Unless he's hiding
21:21 < Aestrix> But yes, ~Inavet shenanigans~
21:22 < Teceler> is the Inavet-getting-captured plot still a thing that is happening?
21:22 < Aestrix> I think probably not, now. It's much more likely that they'll just assassinate her
21:23 < Aestrix> And she'll end up as a really annoyed demon
21:23 < Aestrix> But ~not sure about that either~
21:23 < linkhyrule5> If ME happens before Inavet gets assassinated, ME will almost certainly be capable of warning her about the assassination before it happens
21:23 < linkhyrule5> Whether or not that helps is a different question
21:24 < Aestrix> I mean, the reason the assassination can work is because they catch her off guard
21:24 < Aestrix> Soooo
21:24 < Aestrix> Eh. She'll probably get herself killed eventually
21:24 < linkhyrule5> hahah
21:24 < linkhyrule5> probably
21:24 < linkhyrule5> world-saving people tend to do that
21:24 < Aestrix> A bit xD
21:24 < Teceler> unless they are immortal
21:24 < Teceler> (literally or figuratively)
21:24 < linkhyrule5> *ME idly starts counting up his exploded bodies*
21:24 < Aestrix> She'll become immortal after! :D
21:25 < Aestrix> Which sort of means she's immortal in a roundabout way now. She just needs to die first for it to kick in completely.
21:26 -!- kelphonecall is now known as Kel
21:27 < kappabeta> so the link in ME's livestream indicates where the stream starts from?
21:27 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: Is ME going to keep watching after 'humans are horrible for having made this'? :P
21:28 < linkhyrule5> well, yes
21:29 < linkhyrule5> 'cause he's pretty sure that humans didn't
21:29 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - er. No. I just grabbed the link on the fly and thought itw as the beginning.
21:29 < linkhyrule5> >.>
21:29 < kappabeta> ahaha
21:29 < Teceler> well, yes, but watching at the current point, not going to back to see why they think that :P
21:30 < linkhyrule5> He is going to probe that ,yes
21:30 < linkhyrule5> though he's not too interested in why they think that yet
21:30 < linkhyrule5> he's prioritizing where it /actually/ came from
21:30 < linkhyrule5> and then he can figure out why they think humans made it
21:30 < Teceler> so he keeps watching longer, or tries to track where they got it?
21:30 < kappabeta> do you want to ooc-note that in the pm thread or shall i
21:30 < linkhyrule5> Both, he can multitask :P
21:30 < Teceler> ahaha
21:30 < linkhyrule5> I'll notet hat
21:30 < kappabeta> k
21:31 < Teceler> okay, linkhyrule5, tag
21:31 < linkhyrule5> noted
21:31 < Kel> Rae has a face now!
21:32 < Aestrix> It's so exciting!
21:32 < Aestrix> He has a faaaaace <3
21:32 < Aestrix> And an account
21:32 < linkhyrule5> haha
21:32 < Aestrix> He's needed an account for ages <3
21:32 < Teceler> those are both things that are true
21:32 < linkhyrule5> I should finish my Tokiomi facecasting search
21:32 < linkhyrule5> oh, Aestrix, are you watching UBW?
21:33 < Kel> (I misread chains as chairs, and spent a few seconds being very confused)
21:33 < Kel> mountains_themselves seems like part of a larger phrase?
21:33 < Aestrix> I have no idea what that stands for
21:33 < Aestrix> It is! It's part of his passionate rant defending mortals
21:33 < Teceler> 'wear down the mountains themselves'? /guessing
21:33 < Teceler> ...oh
21:33 < kappabeta> hee
21:34 < Teceler> oh, Rae
21:34 < Kel> Oh that was a really great rant! I loved it!
21:34 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - random music rec https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_1WdlYMHgE
21:34 < linkhyrule5> Akiko Shikata just does great stuff
21:34 < Aestrix> Also a bit of a play on words. "Mountains themselves will crumble before such a word." and then, also, if you look at it in a certain way - mortals are mountains themselves.
21:34 < Aestrix> :)
21:34 < Aestrix> Ooo, music!
21:35 < linkhyrule5> where's Rae posting?
21:35 < linkhyrule5> (Also, UBW?)
21:35 < Teceler> http://aestrix.dreamwidth.org/4545.html
21:35 < Aestrix> I don't know what UBW means xD
21:35 < Aestrix> And yes, there
21:36 < Aestrix> nvm, googled it
21:36 < Aestrix> Haven't, nope!
21:37 < linkhyrule5> YOu should
21:37 < linkhyrule5> it's amazing
21:37 < Aestrix> <3
21:37 < Aestrix> I will add it to my list!
21:37 < linkhyrule5> it's the original and ... well, a lot of how I think about magic comes ultimately from Fate/Stay Night
21:37 < linkhyrule5> also large chunks of morality comes from Shirou.
21:37 < linkhyrule5> Both the "one to save ten, ten to save a hundred" utilitarianism
21:38 < linkhyrule5> and the true-utilitarinism bit, the "I will save all who come within my sight"
21:38 < Aestrix> Mhm <3
21:38 < linkhyrule5> The idea that just because you /will/ make the trade off if you have to, doesn't mean you'll /ever/ stop trying to save all eleven
21:38 < linkhyrule5> Because /death must die/.
21:38 < Aestrix> Yes <3
21:38 < Kel> Yes
21:38 < linkhyrule5> :D
21:40 < Aestrix> Also I liked the music <3
21:42 < linkhyrule5> Always good to hear :P
21:42 < linkhyrule5> The title means "A World Designed for Somebody"
21:42 < linkhyrule5> Haven't looked up the lyrics yet
21:42 < Aestrix> Hee
21:42 < Aestrix> I sense a theme!
21:42 < linkhyrule5> could be super ominous or not :P
21:42 < Aestrix> Well. Okay, point.
21:43 < linkhyrule5> hahaah
21:46 < linkhyrule5> So. I'm not too impressed with the translation
21:46 < linkhyrule5> but I think I like the general gist
21:46 < linkhyrule5> http://www.animelyrics.com/Anime/talesofs/tagatamenosekai.htm
21:47 < Aestrix> I am also not impressed with the translation xD
21:47 < linkhyrule5> hahah
21:52 < linkhyrule5> Ah.
21:52 < Kel> That is a pretty song!
21:52 < Aestrix> Ah?
21:52 < linkhyrule5> Apparently it's better translated "A World Designed for Somebody /Else"
21:52 < linkhyrule5> Which, yes, is ominous indeed.
21:52 < Aestrix> Yeah that's ominous now xD
21:55 < linkhyrule5> so
21:55 < linkhyrule5> now I'm tempted
21:55 < linkhyrule5> to just sit down and translate this thinig from Japanese
21:55 < Aestrix> Pffff
21:55 < linkhyrule5> I do that sometimes!
21:55 < Aestrix> <3
21:55 < linkhyrule5> Just throw google translate, kanji dictionaries, and common sense at it until I figure
21:55 < linkhyrule5> it out
21:56 < Aestrix> xD
21:58 < Aestrix> And do you know what I have to do now?
21:58 < Aestrix> Go to bed, because ugh I guess I'm a morning person now.
21:58 < Aestrix> And more importantly go to class
21:59 < Aestrix> In the morning
21:59 < Aestrix> At 8.
21:59 < Teceler> sleep well
21:59 < Aestrix> Like a SAVAGE.
21:59 < Aestrix> Thank you <3
21:59 < Kel> HIDE FROM THE BED BEAST INSIDE THE BED AND ESCAPE IT THROUGH SLEEP!
21:59 < Teceler> (early class are unfun)
21:59 < Aestrix> YES KEL
21:59 < Aestrix> (They really are)
21:59 < Kel> Good night! Sleep well!
21:59 < Aestrix> (I mean, not as bad as late night classes, but unfun.)
21:59 < Aestrix> Good night!
22:00 -!- Aestrix has quit
22:00 < Teceler> Kel, what is Dotted Lines thinking of Thorn's reply?
22:02 < Kel> He is replying!
22:03 < Teceler> that is good
22:03 < Kel> He thinks he has maybe successfully communicated through absolute denial the state of the situation
22:03 < Teceler> I was kind of wondering if the thing-she-was-trying-to-say got across
22:03 < Teceler> earlier, or in what he is writing now?
22:03 < linkhyrule5> is this going into the PM export thread?
22:04 < Kel> Ah, which thing she was trying to say? sorry
22:04 < Kel> If it is, it will be up to Teceler, because I don't think I know how to do that
22:04 < Teceler> 'it is probably a good idea to work on that but not actually make it happen'
22:04 < Teceler> the earlier part of it is, more will be going in when I get around to updating it
22:04 * Kel rereads
22:05 < Teceler> (on the deadman's switch)
22:05 < linkhyrule5> loool
22:06 < Kel> Oh thank you so much for asking about it before I replied, I had completely misread that sentence
22:06 < Teceler> ...what did you think she was saying?
22:07 < Kel> I accidentally skipped the "you being seen as"
22:08 < Kel> So just, I understand that it would actually be a bad idea to make such a switch
22:08 < Kel> which also makes sense but is not what she was saying
22:08 < Teceler> ...ah
22:09 < Teceler> yeah, that was not what she was saying
22:09 < Kel> I am very glad you asked that when you did
22:09 < Teceler> I am kind of morbidly curious how his response to that was going
22:10 < Kel> Just along the lines of "yes I don't want to cause misunderstandings, misunderstandings are very bad"
22:10 < Teceler> ah
22:23 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
22:24 < Kel> Hi!
22:24 < Eva> Hi!
22:26 < Kel> Teceler, I would like to confirm that I actually understood it right this time, just in case?
22:27 < Kel> "In my world -- and, I suppose, my situation -- it seems straightforwardly useful to have a deadman's switch that triggers whenever I am kidnapped in general, but I think I can see how you being seen as creating such a thing could cause problems. It is certainly something to work on."
22:27 < Kel> you said it meant "'it is probably a good idea to work on that but not actually make it happen'"
22:29 < Kel> but if he worked on that specific sort of switch without making it happen then he wouldn't have a switch. And if it didn
22:30 < Kel> ack
22:30 < Teceler> I think what she was trying to say was that he should conspiciously fail at getting it not to alarm for same-world kidnapping
22:31 < Teceler> meanwhile leaving one of the presets on, or something
22:32 < Kel> His concern was going to be that the SSP would notice the alarm didn't actually work as he advertized, but he semi-openly requested forbiddden books earlier
22:32 < Kel> so not that
22:32 < Teceler> (and the 'for me it seems good to have it go in any situation' was partly cloaking)
22:32 < linkhyrule5> ... you know
22:32 < Kel> yeah he got that
22:32 < linkhyrule5> I just realized
22:32 < Teceler> hm?
22:32 < linkhyrule5> that "Ta Ga Tame no Sekai" is /perfect/ as an "ME cuts loose" theme
22:32 < linkhyrule5> After all, wherever he ends up cutting loose
22:32 < linkhyrule5> it will almost certainly be a World Designed for Someone Else
22:32 < linkhyrule5> :P
22:32 < Teceler> ...ha
22:33 < Kel> =)
22:33 < linkhyrule5> *saved*
22:33 < linkhyrule5> I mean it was saved already for being awesome, but *doublesaved*
22:34 < Teceler> well, that is why conspicious failure. So he doesn't have to lie about how the switch works
22:34 < Teceler> I am assuming if there is even a way to do that, it will be deeply buried
22:34 < Teceler> but he is WORKING ON IT, right?
22:34 < Kel> So like he should say he *thinks* he got it but isn't sure?
22:34 < Teceler> and he /might/ have fixed it this time, but
22:34 < Teceler> yeah
22:34 < Teceler> that would work
22:34 < Kel> Okay great! Thanks!
22:35 < Teceler> if he thinks he can't keep a temporary switch on while he works on it
22:38 < Kel> Since PMs can't be edited, I wanted to run this by you first, just in case
22:38 < Kel> I get what you mean. About your situation in your world, where it'd be useful for people to know in general if you'd been kidnapped. I am working on a switch to do what I need it to. I [i]think[/i] I've got it working now, but I'm not sure. I'm not good at programming.
22:39 < Kel> Actually maybe I should specify 'do what I need it to' to 'only alert for interdimensional kidnappings'
22:39 < Kel> so that it looks less suspicious
22:40 < Teceler> Thorn will think he's saying what he is actually saying there, but won't be sure.
22:40 < Kel> is there a way to translate it to be clearer to Thorn while maintaining plausible deniability?
22:43 < Teceler> Maybe add 'hopefully it will do what I need it to'? at the end? Unless that is insufficently plausibly deniable?
22:44 < Teceler> or mirror some phrasing from talking about the thing in her world to talking about the switch
22:44 < Kel> maybe "I think I've got it working to do what I need it to now"?
22:45 < Teceler> yeah, but that puts it in the thing included with the 'I'm not sure', which was part of the reason she was unsure
22:46 < Kel> Oh I see
22:46 < Kel> "I think I've got it set up to not cause misunderstandings, but I'm not sure."?
22:46 -!- kappabeta has quit
22:48 < Teceler> "...to do what I need it to. I think I've got it set up to only alert for interdimensional kidnappings"
22:48 < Teceler> (suggestion)
22:48 < Teceler> or is that insufficently plausibly deniable?
22:49 < Kel> "...I think I've got it working now, to only alert for interdimensional kidnappings, but I'm not sure."?
22:50 < Teceler> yeah, that looks good.
22:50 < Kel> Or "I think I've got it working to do what I need it to now, so it'll only alert for interdimensional kidnappings, but I'm not sure."?
22:51 < Teceler> If you've got the 'what I need it to do' in a different clause/sentence from the 'I'm not sure' it should work. And you probably want the clarification of the thing is 'is not sure about' in there too.
22:52 < Kel> "...but I'm not sure I programmed it right."?
22:53 < Kel> Or "but I'm not sure. I'm not the best at programming."
22:58 < Teceler> either works
22:58 < Teceler> on this end, at least
22:58 < Kel> Okay, I'll go with the 2nd because it seems more plausibly deniable
22:58 < Teceler> okay
23:05 < Kel> sent
23:05 < Kel> oh the formatting of the last sentence got messed up. It's all supposed to be one line, sorry
23:06 < Teceler> noted
23:09 < Kel> thanks
23:09 < Kel> And now I should really get to bed.
23:09 < Kel> Good night!
23:09 -!- Kel is now known as Kelsleep
23:10 < Teceler> sleep well
23:11 < Kelsleep> thank you!
23:12 -!- Sky has quit
23:16 -!- Kelsleep has quit
23:26 < Eva> Huh, livefeed of electric mechwarrior/angel showdown
23:26 < Eva> Okay.
23:29 < linkhyrule5> loool
23:37 < Eva> Astra would comment that she's getting popcorn, but that would hurt her reputation
23:37 < Eva> :P
23:42 < linkhyrule5> looool
23:42 < linkhyrule5> also "THAT IS NOT A SIDE NOTE"
23:42 * linkhyrule5 is amused!
23:42 < Teceler> that is going on
23:42 < Teceler> *what
23:44 < linkhyrule5> For OOC reasons, I found out about the Technocracy
23:44 < linkhyrule5> having a tendency to induct rescuees into its ranks through mind control
23:44 < linkhyrule5> rather late
23:45 < linkhyrule5> So when ME made a list of people he thought could and would help, he mentioned
23:45 < linkhyrule5> "On a side note, the most likely fate in store for inhiding is being mentally rewritten to be a loyal Technocrat, and possible mindwiped to forget her old family and much of her old life."
23:45 < linkhyrule5> "(This is based purely off of general protocol, and not any particular precognition, which is why I didn't bring this up earlier.)"
23:45 < Teceler> oh, ME
23:45 < linkhyrule5> Astra replied "THAT IS NOT A SIDE NOTE"
23:46 < linkhyrule5> which madde me laugh
23:46 < Teceler> well, it really isn't!
23:47 < linkhyrule5> well, no, it isn't
23:47 < linkhyrule5> he/I just use that fphrase a lot
23:47 < linkhyrule5> He was definitley trying to provokea resuce response, though, so
23:47 < linkhyrule5> mission accomplished?
23:48 < Eva> :3
23:49 < Eva> Oh, by the way. I finally managed to properly stat up Astra in Nobilis so I have a solid idea of her powers.
23:49 < linkhyrule5> fun
23:50 < Eva> I specifically gave her an additional Destruction gift on top of her World-Breaker's Hand
23:51 < Eva> Astra's Pique (Greater Destruction of Annoyances) : Astra can, as a Simple Miracle, destroy /anything/ that personally annoys her.
23:51 < Teceler> I should build Tyche in the relevant system
23:51 < Teceler> ahaha that is ridiculous
23:51 < linkhyrule5> looool
23:51 < linkhyrule5> it's a good thing she goes "Shrug" a lot
23:52 < Eva> That costs six CP for her in-system, IE it's on par with Active Immortality
23:52 < linkhyrule5> oh Eva, have you seen minusT's Touhou videos?
23:52 < Eva> I also hammered out her universal-travel gift
23:52 < Eva> No, actually
23:53 < linkhyrule5> start here
23:53 < linkhyrule5> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSAq1AT7g9Q
23:53 < linkhyrule5> and have at it
23:53 < linkhyrule5> anyone who likes 3D magic dogfights will also like it
23:53 < Eva> Astra has an Aspect-seven gift of Skill: Navigation, and as a result can go anywhere at roughly the speed of plot.
23:53 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
23:53 < Teceler> ha
23:53 < linkhyrule5> I like that specification
23:54 < Eva> That's literally the speed she moves: Aspect-seven lets you do "fairytale feats", so her methods of travel are based on what would make a good story
23:54 < linkhyrule5> looooool
23:55 < Teceler> XD
23:56 < Eva> She passively acts all the time at Aspect-3, which basically means that she can perform anything a human could do with absolute flawlessness. To quote the book on Aspect-3, whose main benefit is superhuman timing:
23:57 < Eva> "When you do something with a level 3 aspect miracle, you finish it at the first of the following times that seems even vaguely possible:
23:57 < Eva> 1: Practically instantly
23:57 < Eva> 2: At just the right time
23:57 < Eva> 3: just barely in time
23:58 < Eva> It gives her superhuman /precision/ but not superhuman /force/
23:59 < Eva> Miles might be able to incapacitate her in a stand-up fight if it wasn't for her World-breaker's hand.
23:59 < Eva> (not kill, since she has multiple immortalities)
--- Day changed Fri May 29 2015
00:00 -!- MTC has joined #backstage
00:00 < Eva> and finally, she has the gift "Mysterious" which basically means all attempts to learn about her may fail at her option.
00:01 < Eva> And that's pretty much it.
00:01 < linkhyrule5> Which ME is persoanlly offended by and will totally be working around the edges of on occassion :P
00:02 < Eva> ME has enough mana that he could occasionally overwhelm Astra's Mysterious Gift
00:02 < Eva> but it's a Domain 5 Miracle so it would take some serious Strike/ tons of MP to contest directly.
00:04 < linkhyrule5> He's mostly going to do the smart thing and not contest it directly :P
00:04 < linkhyrule5> look at indirect effects, do lots of Sherlock-y style things to infer things about her
00:05 < Eva> That probably will work given enough time!
00:07 < linkhyrule5> Time is something ME has a lot of.
00:07 < linkhyrule5> I would make a Homestuck joke at this point, in fact.
00:07 < linkhyrule5> Let's just say....
00:07 < linkhyrule5> ME: [Time's on my side.]
00:08 < linkhyrule5> xP
00:08 * Teceler sighs, shakes her head disappointedly.
00:08 < Teceler> :P
00:09 < linkhyrule5> :P
00:09 < linkhyrule5> Do you Homestuck?
00:10 * Eva hamsteaks.
00:11 * Eva considers the uses of Astra's "Greater Destruction of Annoyances" power.
00:11 < linkhyrule5> loool
00:11 * Eva decides that she has a habit of casusally ripping out spam mail at the roots from the worlds she stays in for a while.
00:12 * Eva (or at least the planest she stays on)
00:12 < linkhyrule5> looooool
00:12 < Teceler> XDXDXD
00:12 < Eva> (She probably also destroyed her capacity to make spelling errors)
00:12 < linkhyrule5> bad Excrucian, no biscuits
00:12 < linkhyrule5> and no destroying the concept of biscuits either
00:12 < Eva> The interesting thing though is
00:13 < Eva> If Astra regards you as a fly, she can swat you like one
00:13 < Eva> but if you've shown that you're a real threat to her, she suddenly loses a lot of that power.
00:13 < linkhyrule5> That is kind of interesting
00:13 < Eva> Because you've ceased to be a mere annoyance.
00:13 < linkhyrule5> does that mean that she has a vested interest in underestimating people?
00:14 < Eva> That actually makes a lot of sense.
00:14 < Eva> And explains somewhat why she was so willing to leap into the World of Darkness
00:14 < linkhyrule5> haha
00:14 < linkhyrule5> it would, yes
00:14 < Eva> Despite or rather because she didn't know about anything in it
00:22 < Eva> Oh, also.
00:22 < Eva> Astra's cancer is actually curable.
00:22 < Eva> ... Sort of.
00:23 < Eva> Her cancer can only be cured if it can be made /logically inconsistent/ for her to have cancer.
00:23 < Teceler> ahaha
00:24 < Teceler> does 'you have been treated with technology that fixes this, you should be fixed' work?
00:24 < Eva> In game terms it's "Affliction 5: I am eternally dying of cancer."
00:24 < Eva> You need to come up with a situation that will make that sentence impossible.
00:24 < Eva> (In more than the obvious way)
00:25 < Teceler> hm
00:25 < Eva> Incidentally, Astra's cancer actually resists attempts to kill her as well as attempts to cure it
00:25 < Teceler> that is useful!
00:25 < Eva> because dying =/= dead
00:26 < Thatwasademo> wait, astra is deadpool?
00:27 < linkhyrule5> That is not dead which can eternal lie
00:27 < linkhyrule5> and with strange aeons, even death may die.
00:29 < Teceler> I am going to go sleep now like I should have age ago
00:29 < Teceler> *ages
00:29 < linkhyrule5> lool
00:30 < linkhyrule5> good night
00:30 < linkhyrule5> luck!
00:30 < linkhyrule5> Eva - what did you think of minusT?
00:30 -!- Teceler is now known as Teceler|Asleep
00:33 < Eva> Danmaku looks somehow a lot less impressive in 3d
00:33 < Eva> >.>
00:33 < linkhyrule5> enh
00:33 < linkhyrule5> that was hsi first video
00:34 < linkhyrule5> Marisa v. Flandre is better
00:34 < Eva> I think I saw his Okuu V. Reimu
00:34 < linkhyrule5> Reimu vs. Yuyuko is just beautiful
00:34 < linkhyrule5> (that wasn't him, though it was famous)
00:34 < linkhyrule5> and the upcoming Reimu + Marisa + Sakuya vs Yukari has a stunning preview
00:34 < linkhyrule5> But yeah, if you just want to skip to cool stuff, watch Reimu v. Yuyuko
00:35 < linkhyrule5> Marisa v. Flandre has an adorables touching moment where Marisa saves Flandre... maybe life? Definitely a decent bit of pain
00:35 < linkhyrule5> and of course the preview is just amazing
00:38 < linkhyrule5> on a random note, have sleeping Flandre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibnnu_Q7gmo&index=2&list=FLp1P-P02lG1qrxQsiSLbjPg
00:39 < Eva> Hmm, I think I know what the issue is
00:40 < Eva> one: It's hard to track exactly how close the grazes are
00:40 < Eva> two: initially two-dimensional patterns don't translate elegantly to threespace
00:41 < linkhyrule5> sometimes that's true
00:41 < linkhyrule5> I do recommend you give Reimu v. Yuyuko a shot, though
00:41 < linkhyrule5> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Zwrx9a9Lo
00:41 < linkhyrule5> though yes, the former is a problem
00:41 < linkhyrule5> it's more pretty lights than checking her skill
00:41 < linkhyrule5> tbf, pretty lights are very pretty :P
00:42 < linkhyrule5> and it's fun to catch familiar patterns in 3D
00:43 < Eva> It honestly reminds me more of like Macross than Touhou
00:43 < Eva> Oh! I just realized the real central problem. Reimu moves too quickly.
00:43 < linkhyrule5> ahahahahah
00:43 < linkhyrule5> she's not /that/ slow :P
00:44 < Eva> No, no, I'm talking about the approach :P
00:44 < linkhyrule5> jokes aside, I do kind of like the high speed version
00:44 < linkhyrule5> it's just... more agile? More fluid?
00:44 < Eva> I've always viewed touhou as sort of an action puzzler
00:44 < linkhyrule5> The real game, you're always sneaking between bullets
00:44 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, but Reimu doesn't need to do that.
00:44 < linkhyrule5> Reimu clears every goddarn game on the first try on Lunatic mode in 3D.
00:45 < linkhyrule5> This is basically what I'd expect to see from her - a truly flawless, elegant display
00:45 < Eva> True!
00:45 < linkhyrule5> anyway seriously try v. Yuyuko
00:45 < linkhyrule5> I have no idea if you'll like it but it's just beautiful from an art standpoint evene verything else aside, so
00:45 < Eva> I'm watching it!
00:45 < Eva> The butterfiles are very pretty
00:45 < linkhyrule5> okay, I'll stop distracting you
00:46 < Eva> Okay, now this bit with the lasers works much better
00:46 < linkhyrule5> I think you'll love Marisa v. Flandre then
00:46 < linkhyrule5> because lol Master Spark and Laeveteinn
00:46 < Eva> With an actual reference of lines to show the depth in the pattern it helps a /lot/
00:48 < Eva> pffftahahah
00:48 < Eva> Okay, I just opened marisa v. flandre
00:49 < Eva> And there's a moment early on where Marisa pulls out the Hakkero, turns, and flandre /grins/ before she gets blasted
00:49 < Eva> which is just
00:49 < Eva> yep, that's Flan
00:50 < linkhyrule5> hahah
00:50 < linkhyrule5> yeah
00:50 < linkhyrule5> but yeah, like, what I really like about this
00:50 < linkhyrule5> is that it really makes it clear what they're talking about
00:51 < linkhyrule5> this isn't a contest of skill, even, never mind power
00:51 < linkhyrule5> it's a contest of /elegance/ and beautyf
00:51 < linkhyrule5> Winning is... not /secondary/, but.
00:51 < linkhyrule5> There's definitely an element of "if you're going to brute force it, you're missing the point"
00:51 < linkhyrule5> Even Marisa only has the one Spark
00:55 < Eva> Oh, wonderful. I love the bouncing shots in this one.
00:57 < linkhyrule5> check out the Yukari encoding test when you're done with it
00:59 < Eva> Okay, Yukari looks like it'll be great.
00:59 < Eva> The many-branched tree of lasers is /elegant/
00:59 < Eva> minus is improving
00:59 < linkhyrule5> isn't he just!
01:00 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, I just get more and more hyped
01:00 < linkhyrule5> but yeah, I really liked the bit where Marisa goes "Rescue the vampire!" and Flandre's all "you want me alive? o.o"
01:00 < linkhyrule5> and then boom and duel-to-the-death turns into friendly brawl
01:01 < Eva> lol yep
01:06 < linkhyrule5> Also I need to play Urban Legend in Limbo
01:06 < linkhyrule5> because Gensoukyou meets Outside World
01:07 < linkhyrule5> Oh, I haven't forgotten about the Glowsoukyou
01:07 < linkhyrule5> I've just been exploding, and spending non-exploding time on MWF -Eva
01:07 < linkhyrule5> so yeah, I will get back to that. Eventually. T.T
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04:59 < Thatwasademo> aw man everyone is asleep and I have to confirm something about time
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07:12 < kappabeta> good morning stagehands
07:14 < Thatwasademo> hi
07:16 < Thatwasademo> <Thatwasademo> aw man everyone is asleep and I have to confirm something about time
07:16 < Thatwasademo> would you know anything about how time works
07:16 < Adelene> In what sense?
07:16 < kappabeta> what
07:17 < Thatwasademo> well I'm about to posit that time passes inconsistently between different dimensions and I need to know if this would contradict anything
07:18 < kappabeta> Time seems to pass *broadly* consistently between a *bunch* of dimensions but I don't think it's a hard rule that it's proceeding at exactly the same rate everywhere
07:18 < kappabeta> or even at fixed ratios
07:18 < kappabeta> like, for example, a lot of us are having our characters mimic our own sleep schedules for convenience, and I am doing this despite Barrayar having 26-hour days.
07:19 < Thatwasademo> what i'm trying to do is have Viridian be able to say that he has no idea how much time has passed in Vearth
07:19 < Adelene> Mother Starlight said something to Grey Librarian about time dialation or something like that, once; other than that I don't think we've specified how time works between dimensions.
07:19 < kappabeta> aha
07:19 < Thatwasademo> only that when he gets back it will be at some point in the future of when and where he left
07:19 < kappabeta> I think if at least one of the worlds involved is under your control, you can say whatever you like about how that world's passage of time relates to others'
07:21 < Thatwasademo> well I'm making an IC blanket statement
07:21 < Thatwasademo> then again, time being determined by experiment to be inconsistent doesn't mean any arbitrary pair of worlds can't be synchronized
07:22 < Thatwasademo> cool now I can reply to ME
07:25 < Thatwasademo> I kind of already was assuming this (hence Viridian talking about hours relative to the Souleye earlier)
07:26 < Thatwasademo> but if things were otherwise I could pass that statement off as "oh yeah relativity is still a thing" but not the explanation I just gave
07:27 < Thatwasademo> thanks, kappa+adelene
07:27 < Thatwasademo> oh no I can hear aestrix cackling
07:27 < kappabeta> what
07:27 < kappabeta> why can you hear aestrix cackling
07:27 < Thatwasademo> oh good it's just arkham horror shenanigans
07:28 < Thatwasademo> http://alicorn.elcenia.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=332&start=140#p14148
07:28 < Thatwasademo> i was worried there for a moment
07:28 < kappabeta> heeeeeeeeeeeeeee
07:31 < Thatwasademo> ... why do I find myself wanting to write arkham glowfic
07:32 < Thatwasademo> i'm not even supposed to be a competent writer what has the MWF wrought
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 30, 2015 17:12:59 GMT
Spoilered because long. 07:41 < kappabeta> :D
07:41 < kappabeta> the mwf is a gateway drug for glowfic
07:41 < kappabeta> didn't you know
07:42 < Thatwasademo> what a horrible night to have a curse
07:43 < kappabeta> hehehehehe
07:44 < Thatwasademo> <3
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10:13 < Kel> Hi!
10:14 < Teceler> hi
10:14 < Kel> Do you want Thorn to reply to this one, or should I have him go to Nexus now?
10:15 < Teceler> I do want Thorn to reply, I was just too tired last night to do that
10:15 < Kel> Okay!
10:15 < Teceler> but if you want him to go to Nexus after that that is fine
10:16 < Kel> I think there isn't a particular hurry
10:16 < Teceler> also 'a weird memetic virus' XD
10:16 < Kel> =)
10:16 < Teceler> the proper term is 'basilisk hack'
10:16 < Teceler> but I think that might be on the list of unsafe phrases.
10:16 < Teceler> maybe not, if gatecrashers use it
10:17 < Kel> I think it was censored out of Thorn's posts?
10:17 < Teceler> I don't think I have a record on whether that one gets redacted
10:18 < Teceler> so I have to decide
10:22 < Teceler> also, for your amusement, Thorn has been going back and forth between 'paranoia' and 'he is clearly afraid of going outside for some reason' and then settled on 'he might get inaccurate readings if he tries while upset let's go with that'
10:23 < Kel> haha
10:23 < Kel> He is just kinda afraid of the sky right now
10:24 < Kel> and also worried about not successfully identifying dangerous things
10:24 < Teceler> yeah, you've mentioned that. Thorn thinks he is generally afraid of going outside for re-education-related-reasons, which is close enough
10:24 < Teceler> yeah
10:24 < Teceler> which given NV, would be a problem
10:24 < Teceler> *especially given
10:24 < Kel> yeah
10:25 < Teceler> Thorn, thinking about this, adds 'also he might actually be in danger if he goes outside and that would not be good'
10:28 < Adelene> *pops in* https://lurkingkobold.dreamwidth.org/485.html *poofs for chores*
10:28 < Kel> that is also true, yes
10:29 < Teceler> !!
10:29 < Kel> Awww!!!
10:29 < Kel> Yes good!
10:30 < Teceler> the title :)
10:30 < Adelene> :3
10:30 < Adelene> I was afraid nobody would notice that ^^
10:30 < Teceler> that would be difficult :P
10:31 < Adelene> I am probably underestimating the general nerdery of the group, yes.
10:31 < Teceler> (no, seriously, we have the hobbit audiobook, my family has that first bit from that version memorized, it is amusing)
10:31 < Adelene> heh.
10:31 < Teceler> possibly :P
10:31 < Adelene> I'm not so much a hobit nerd but it seemed very appropriate, so.
10:32 < Adelene> *hobbit
10:32 < Teceler> it is
10:33 < Adelene> Anyway. *poofs*
10:33 < Teceler> good luck with your chores
10:33 < Kel> good bye! and good luck!
10:35 < Teceler> Lurking is so adorable
10:35 < Kel> Yes!
10:36 < Teceler> I mean, we already knew that, but
10:36 < Teceler> so adorable
10:38 < Teceler> right, back to message-writing
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11:32 < Thatwasademo> oh hi
11:33 < Adelene> *boops sonata* https://lurkingkobold.dreamwidth.org/485.html ^^
11:33 < Kel> hi!
11:34 < sonatagreen> hiii
11:34 < Teceler> hi
11:34 < Thatwasademo> I actually have a question for you!
11:34 < sonatagreen> go ahead
11:36 < Thatwasademo> Dungeon's gate spell - do you think using it would be visible from outside a world?
11:38 < sonatagreen> ...maybe? It depends a lot on the nature of outside the world and what sort of things could normally be perceived.
11:38 < sonatagreen> I hadn't been thinking of any particular mechanism, like I hadn't imagined a wormhole stretching from the one world to the other
11:39 < sonatagreen> more like teleporting than building a bridge
11:39 < Thatwasademo> Viridian can see the wormholes of nexus (but hasn't figured out yet that they're wormholes) and vague signs of life
11:39 < sonatagreen> but it might be visible as a distinctive disruption to the structure/shape of local space
11:39 < kappabeta> hee
11:40 < Thatwasademo> I'm trying to figure out a way for him to figure out what this dimension is
11:40 < Thatwasademo> him or leaf
11:40 < sonatagreen> so like you could see the gate if you were looking at the right spot, but there wouldn't be a bridge/trail leading from one end of the gate to the other
11:40 < kappabeta> hmmmmm
11:40 < Thatwasademo> perhaps like the holes left all over Dimension VVVVVV, but properly healing itself afterward?
11:41 < sonatagreen> It would probably be noticeably different than that, and probably a bit less conspicuous since it's a less drastic effect
11:41 < sonatagreen> but it's not a bad analogy overall
11:41 < kappabeta> what kind of information does he *get* about the insides of nearby universes
11:42 < Thatwasademo> well, I mean the smaller holes made intentionally by the tech that broke that dimension, not the overall instability
11:43 < Thatwasademo> i'm imagining it as being basically like what a star trek ship could get about a planet
11:43 < kappabeta> heh
11:43 < sonatagreen> If it's high enough resolution, sure. The main reason it wouldn't work is because worlds are big and gates are small.
11:44 < Thatwasademo> "high enough resolution" basically depends on being close enough
11:44 < kappabeta> If he can see inhabited planets and wormholes, and can get anything like a map of them, Miles would recognize the map
11:44 < Thatwasademo> I'm writing a post about him doing further scans on the approach
11:45 < Thatwasademo> It would be basically exactly a map
11:45 < Thatwasademo> of exactly those things
11:45 < kappabeta> yep
11:45 < kappabeta> Miles will be like "welp"
11:46 < Kel> (Nexus is the gathering point for interdimensional nonsense)
11:46 < Thatwasademo> well, not exactly inhabited planets, but colonized planets probably have more life forms on them than uncolonized planets
11:48 < kappabeta> there are life-bearing uncolonized planets but colonized planets generally have, like, a certain repeated species profile
11:48 < Thatwasademo> well time to make a post with an attachment named "scans.tar.vz.ooc.txt"
11:48 < Thatwasademo> vzip: it's like gzip, only from Vearth
11:48 < kappabeta> if it's going strictly by "amount of living creatures on teh planet" then "many alive things" will not correspond 1:1 with "inhabited" but they will overlap substantially
11:50 < Thatwasademo> the fact that there is an extra occasionally-appearing anomaly exactly on Barrayar might help clue Miles in
11:50 < kappabeta> yeah
11:51 < sonatagreen> I drew a thing, will upload in a minute
11:51 < kappabeta> oo a thing
11:51 < sonatagreen> rough diagram of what I imagine stuff looking like
11:51 < Teceler> ...wait, is that a map of the wormhole nexus /including parts they have not yet explored/? :P
11:51 < kappabeta> ...:3
11:51 < kappabeta> Miles: [scoop]
11:51 < Teceler> XD
11:51 < kappabeta> Miles: Greeeeegor I got you a preeeeeeesent
11:51 < Teceler> XDXD
11:51 < Kel> hahaha
11:52 < kappabeta> (Nifl, quietly, in the background: [scoop])
11:52 < Teceler> hee
11:52 < kappabeta> I might have Nifl log in and not say anything shortly after the map gets posted.
11:52 < Teceler> ahaha
11:52 < Adelene> *snicker*
11:52 < Thatwasademo> HA
11:52 < Thatwasademo> yes perfect
11:52 < kappabeta> :D
11:52 < Thatwasademo> viridian is already being useful without even knowing it
11:53 < Teceler> I bet Miles is totally not going to notice that either not at all :P
11:53 < kappabeta> XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
11:53 < kappabeta> Miles: Greeegor I got you a preeeeeeesent. ... ... ...Lisbet probably already has it.
11:53 < sonatagreen> http://i.imgur.com/gXKisOH.png
11:53 < Teceler> XD
11:53 < sonatagreen> top: dimensional instability
11:53 < sonatagreen> red: wormholes
11:53 < sonatagreen> blue: gate
11:53 < Teceler> Gregor: [sigh]
11:53 < kappabeta> XD
11:56 < Thatwasademo> hello
11:57 < sonatagreen> hi
11:57 < Thatwasademo> there's a post!
11:57 < Thatwasademo> watch as viridian provides incredibly useful information by complete accident!
11:57 < Teceler> heee
11:58 < Thatwasademo> I mean, that's how he got through a large part of VVVVVV too, so
11:59 < Thatwasademo> now, what else was on my to do list
12:01 < sonatagreen> oh my gosh Lurker's icons are incredibly adorable
12:01 < Thatwasademo> also that
12:06 < kappabeta> [posts as leaf, logs in as nifl and views thread silently]
12:08 < Adelene> *giggle*
12:08 < Thatwasademo> heeeeee
12:10 < Teceler> ahaha
12:13 < Teceler> so, Kel, last night when you said DL thought he had managed to convey by absolute denial the state of the situation, was there something in particular you were referring to?
12:14 < Kel> Basically, the state of the law in NV
12:14 < Kel> Oh!
12:15 < Kel> And, the last sentence, which was specified to be "more advice for your situation" although the paragraph was already advice for her situation, to try to point out a danger of *his* situation
12:16 < Teceler> yeah, Thorn noticed that. She is contemplating having her send a message to Leaf to go 'if you are ever rescuing DL, especially from something in his own world, make sure his family are safe too'
12:16 < Kel> I don't know if that came through?
12:16 < Teceler> *I am contemplating having her
12:17 < Teceler> the problem is I'm having trouble remember how much of Leaf's shenanigans are public
12:17 < Teceler> *remembering
12:17 < Teceler> words, today, ugh
12:18 < Kel> If she does, it should probably be declared to be at a specific time before he is rescued but during discussion
12:18 < Kel> ?
12:18 < Kel> I'll go check PMs
12:18 < kappabeta> ahahaha
12:18 < Kel> Time is *too complicated*
12:19 < Teceler> kappa, how much of the Leaf-rescuing people thing would Thorn know about? :P
12:19 < kappabeta> hmmmmmmmmmm.
12:19 < Kel> Oh yeah, if Thorn doesn't know that Leaf rescues people, the possibility might need to be mentioned first, or else it would be really odd
12:20 < Teceler> yeah
12:20 < kappabeta> It can probably be derived that he *has* the capacity to rescue people from the fact that like, he got interdimensionally kidnapped and walked out without a scratch and immediately founded an interdimensional problem-solving coalition
12:21 < kappabeta> this implies a certain amount of dealing-with-shit ability
12:21 < Teceler> ah, yes, she could probably reasonably derive he might be doing that thing from the problem-solving coaltion
12:21 < Teceler> I would have to reread th epost on that to be sure
12:21 < Kel> OOC, the conversation point it would be mentioned at would make the most sense after "May 25, 2015 at 16:12" Mountain time
12:22 < Kel> Maybe if she inquired about whether he was generally likely to do rescuing stuff?
12:23 < kappabeta> Also, is this before or after the inhiding thread?
12:23 < kappabeta> Leaf publicly offered to rescue inhiding
12:23 < Teceler> before, unfortunately
12:23 < kappabeta> aha
12:23 < Teceler> because it's right after Thorn gets back on the forums and right before DL gets rescued
12:23 < kappabeta> aha
12:23 < Teceler> and I'm pretty sure that happens before inhiding
12:23 < Kel> (aah why did I introduce so much time shenanigans sorry! I was not anticipating this problem)
12:23 < kappabeta> yeah
12:23 < kappabeta> <3<3<3
12:23 < kappabeta> These things happen
12:24 < Teceler> do we need to keep a MWF timeline? It's starting to sound like we do
12:24 < kappabeta> I think I might prefer to engage in fewer time shenanigans if possible, though
12:24 < Kel> I intend to introduce no further time shenanigans
12:24 < kappabeta> <3
12:25 < Teceler> yeah, if you don't want Thorn's message to overlap with their conversation she could amusingly send it after DL gets rescued but before she hears about it
12:25 < kappabeta> haha
12:25 < Adelene> I have a Lurker timeline if anyone wants to use it as a basis for things.
12:25 < Teceler> though that might require wrapping this up fairly soon
12:25 < Adelene> I think it specifies when DL could have been rescued pretty specifically, too.
12:25 < Teceler> you linked that last night, didn't you
12:26 < Adelene> mmhmm [gdocs link redacted]
12:26 < Adelene> DL was rescued and settled in before Lurker was brought to Nexus.
12:27 < Thatwasademo> Leaf has a PM
12:27 < Teceler> yup, which works reasonably well with the ooc timeline for the pms
12:27 < Adelene> And iirc Leaf mentioned rescuing DL, but that he hadn't done that yet, in the PM that set Lurker to leaving the tigerpeople.
12:27 < Teceler> but
12:28 < kappabeta> yeah
12:28 < kappabeta> man, I really want a version of the PM gobbler that spits out one file per PM conversation
12:28 < Thatwasademo> The "exotic materials" mentioned might require government approval to obtain, I wouldn't know
12:29 < kappabeta> he'll probably just have cam conjure one
12:29 < kappabeta> XD
12:29 < Thatwasademo> aha
12:29 < Thatwasademo> of course
12:29 < Teceler> okay, if it happened on the 27th that works reasonably well with my timeline. Otherwise we might have to call time dilation shenanigans on Thorn's end
12:29 < kappabeta> I keep meaning to export my PMs again but the thought of scrolling through that enormous text file fills me with dread
12:29 < Teceler> also Miles
12:29 < Teceler> that would probably be possible to design...
12:29 < kappabeta> yeah, government approval is not hard to acquire for miles XD
12:29 < Thatwasademo> well, Miles can enjoy a giant circle wherever he wants to put a giant circle
12:29 < kappabeta> what sort of a giant circle is it
12:30 < kappabeta> vertically oriented? horizontally? how big?
12:30 < Teceler> it is python
12:30 < Teceler> hm
12:30 < Thatwasademo> http://33.media.tumblr.com/586f363678f316ecd07a095a0630c73d/tumblr_inline_nant37lmGf1r2gkqp.gif
12:30 < Thatwasademo> vertically oriented
12:30 < kappabeta> gosh
12:30 < kappabeta> so giant
12:30 < kappabeta> so circular
12:30 < Thatwasademo> Only illuminated with lightning when someone is nearby
12:30 < Thatwasademo> otherwise the border is just a slightly lighter gray
12:30 < Thatwasademo> (and the center)
12:31 < Thatwasademo> (ooc i would prefer if the teleporter was indoors in a room with a flat ceiling)
12:31 < Thatwasademo> (for reasons)
12:31 < kappabeta> hahaha
12:31 < kappabeta> reasons?
12:31 < Thatwasademo> comedy reasons
12:31 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
12:32 < Teceler> oh, right, ceiling-standing reasons :P
12:32 < Adelene> ^^
12:32 < Thatwasademo> nobody knows viridian can flip
12:32 < Thatwasademo> also curse you I am making a dreamwidth account
12:32 < kappabeta> pm'd viridian
12:35 < Thatwasademo> viridian said something which i realized immediately afterwards sounds sort of sad :(
12:35 < kappabeta> oh?
12:35 < Thatwasademo> poor guy stuck on a spaceship for a year and a half
12:35 < Thatwasademo> a spaceship with 6 crew members
12:35 < kappabeta> heh
12:49 < kappabeta> man i wonder where the heck endovior vanished to
12:49 < Teceler> oh, Firewall.
12:49 < kappabeta> ?
12:50 < Teceler> One of their first precautions against inter-dimensional kidnapping was apparently making sure everyone likely to be a target had deadswitches. Which makes total sense in the context of Eclipse Phase, but
12:50 < Teceler> outside of that context is utterly bizaare
12:50 < kappabeta> well, what else would you do XD
12:51 < Teceler> well, someone getting their hands on people's cortical stacks would be /bad/
12:52 < Teceler> but to people not familiar with the background it reads as 'so, they made sure everyone has an automatic kill switch'
12:53 < Teceler> and Thorn probably has enough sense to not directly mention that bit in her message to DL but she /might/ not think of that because of setting differences
12:54 < Kel> He will probably be *very* alarmed for her
12:54 < Teceler> Kel, opinons on potential fun/on fireness?
12:55 < Kel> I am generally in favor of both!
12:55 < Kel> For that specific thing re killswitches, sure!
12:55 < Kel> It will probably lead to him trying to suggest that short interdimensional vacations are a lot of fun
12:56 < Kel> If that was what you were asking?
12:58 < Teceler> I need to work out how to say it then. (It's more like -- mm, it can be activated at will, and will auto-activate under preset conditions like if the person with it gets killed if they've set it to? So it's kind of more like a cyanide tablet. And backups, which is why this is a reasonable thing. But /that is not how it is likely to come across/)
12:59 < Teceler> oh DL. She may actually totally fail to understand his point and be very confused when she eventually gets it
12:59 < Kel> Should that be before or after he gets rescued?
12:59 < Teceler> I don't know, which works better for you?
13:00 < Kel> Hmmm
13:00 < Kel> It will be written more carefully if it is before, but he will be more sure that interdimensional trips are a good idea after
13:02 < Kel> And he would probably become more worried that Firewall is intercepting her posts maliciously after that
13:02 < Kel> So he would still probably want to phrase things carefully
13:02 < Kel> So I guess, after, to avoid squishing the timeline too much, unless you have a strong preference otherwise?
13:03 < Kel> or even a weak preference
13:03 < Teceler> no strong preference, this post was the one I wanted to get a response in to before rescue-related distractions
13:04 < Kel> okay! =)
13:04 < Teceler> "Dead Switch: This cortical stack (p. 300) accessory is designed to keep the stack from falling into the wrong hands. If the morph is killed, the dead switch wipes and melts the cortical stack completely, so that the ego cannot be recovered. This option is generally only used by covert operatives with recent backups."
13:04 < Teceler> sonatagreen: how is the forum likely to translate that for maximum on-fireness?
13:05 < sonatagreen> hmm
13:05 < Teceler> because what Thorn is likely to say is something like 'I have a dead switch' and that is unhelpful for fire purposes
13:06 < sonatagreen> maybe "If anything unexpected happens I'll be killed immediately"?
13:06 < Teceler> ahahaha
13:06 < Kel> (Oh hey, that sounds like another forum-member)
13:06 < Kel> yes he will find that alarming!
13:06 < sonatagreen> assume the forum generally provides reasonable translations but might sometimes fail to bridge cultural gaps
13:07 < Teceler> yeah, I can see that
13:07 < Teceler> Lurker is /so adorable/ I can't even /distracted
13:08 < Adelene> *lots of giggling*
13:08 < Kel> I agree!
13:08 < kappabeta> :D
13:08 < Kel> (confetti!)
13:08 < kappabeta> ~confetti~
13:08 < Teceler> confetti
13:08 < Teceler> *!
13:09 < Adelene> :D
13:09 < Teceler> new and interesting ways for spellbooks to stop being such, too
13:10 < Kel> And will we soon get to know her MP?
13:10 < Thatwasademo> https://vvvvvvibrant.dreamwidth.org/icons welp
13:10 < Kel> That is a great name!
13:11 < Kel> does Viridian sad while flipped?
13:11 < Thatwasademo> Oh, I should do that
13:11 < Thatwasademo> also I added an elephant
13:13 < sonatagreen> I think the description for Flip should be uɐᴉpᴉɹᴉΛ uᴉɐʇdɐƆ
13:13 < sonatagreen> instead of Ɔɐdʇɐᴉu Λᴉɹᴉpᴉɐu
13:13 < Teceler> XD
13:13 < Adelene> Kobolds: So emotive. ^^
13:13 < Thatwasademo> I could have made it backwards too, but that wouldn't have matched the image
13:13 < kappabeta> <3
13:14 < Thatwasademo> I guess the upsidedowntext generator I'm using doesn't handle letters right though
13:15 < sonatagreen> Presumably Viridian has a rotated sprite (for when she's flipped and facing west) but I prefer avatars to face the post text
13:15 < kappabeta> why is there a strangely realistic elephant
13:15 < kappabeta> XD
13:15 < sonatagreen> so it seems perfectly consistent to rotate the text
13:15 < sonatagreen> but if you leave Flip mirrored then you should probably do the same for Sadflip
13:15 < Thatwasademo> there is a giant elephant with a tear in game
13:15 < Thatwasademo> it spans four rooms
13:16 < Thatwasademo> and standing next to it makes Viridian sad
13:16 < Teceler> the problem with what you are doing with descriptions is, those are at least half for screenreaders?
13:17 < Teceler> so flipping them is kind of... problematic for that purpose.
13:17 < Kel> Maybe if there were another description in parentheses?
13:17 < Kel> Or if you made them the keywords instead?
13:18 < Teceler> the keywords being mirrored should be fine, yes
13:19 < Thatwasademo> okay fine
13:19 < Teceler> http://dw-accessibility.dreamwidth.org/18357.html
13:19 < sonatagreen> oh no sad kobold
13:19 < Adelene> She is the Saddest kobold.
13:20 < sonatagreen> cutebold is SO CUTE
13:20 < Thatwasademo> oh no
13:20 < Teceler> and I don't quite remember what wound up happening there, I think the the title and alt text both ended with both pieces just formatted differently, but that is my reference for that
13:21 < Teceler> sorry
13:21 < Teceler> so, where did Lurking's icons come from, Adelene?
13:21 < Adelene> Google searching 'cutebold', sometimes with various modifiers.
13:21 < Teceler> ah
13:22 < Adelene> The main happy one is an edit of a comic that's on e621
13:22 < Teceler> they keep reminding me of Digger stylistically
13:24 < Thatwasademo> is there anything else i'm forgetting
13:25 < Thatwasademo> also what do i do with viridian pronouns
13:25 < Kel> If you wanted them to be grouped in a specific order, you could add numbers on the front, but other than that, I don't think so?
13:26 < Kel> Maybe "they" or just conspicuously avoid constructing sentences so that pronouns are needed?
13:26 < Teceler> vir? :P
13:26 < kappabeta> hee
13:26 < Kel> <3
13:26 < Thatwasademo> the thing is I have to try to avoid implying Viridian is definitely transgendered rather than simply gender undefined
13:27 < Thatwasademo> because while a trans or non-binary viridian is possible it isn't definite
13:27 < Kel> no pronouns, just use Viridian's name every time?
13:27 < Teceler> Hm. I would default to 'they' or e/eir/em for that, but
13:27 < Thatwasademo> real awkward sounding with verbs
13:28 < Thatwasademo> singular 'they' could work
13:30 < Thatwasademo> i want to keep it as subtle as possible that viridian doesn't gender
13:30 < Teceler> singular they is probably your best bet, then, for third person
13:30 < Thatwasademo> yeah
13:32 < Teceler> Kel, sent
13:33 < Kel> just checking, are typos intentional?
13:33 < Teceler> er
13:33 < Teceler> where?
13:33 < Kel> "whathappenehat "
13:33 < Teceler> er
13:34 < Teceler> someone appears to have accidentally gotten pasted in there
13:34 < Teceler> that was supposed to say "if they knew what the government"
13:34 < Thatwasademo> ŵ
13:34 < Kel> Okay, noted!
13:35 * Teceler finds this vaguely amusing timing-wise
13:35 < Kel> How so?
13:35 < Teceler> well, it looks like a Secret Message
13:35 < Kel> ah, yeah that.
13:36 < Kel> that was why I wanted to check if it was intentional
13:36 < Teceler> very reasonable of you, thanks
13:36 < Kel> =)
13:36 < Teceler> (I am imagining how DL would react to that.)
13:37 < Kel> "checking out whathappene?" clearly there must be some kind of secret emergency I need to check up on
13:38 < Kel> oh no I need to go outside and look at the sky or my friend will maybe die aaaaah
13:38 < Teceler> well, if it was a little later she might have been interrupted by Project Ozma running around like headless chickens, which is an expected result of ME, but not something it is actually useful for DL to investigate and yeah
13:39 < Teceler> that was accidental
13:39 < Kel> which was?
13:39 < Teceler> the not-quite-a-typo thing
13:39 < Teceler> was oocly accidental
13:40 < Kel> the pasted one? yeah
13:40 < Kel> Okay, I will pretend it's not there
13:40 < Kel> Would you want to change it in the exported PMs?
13:41 < Teceler> do you want me to? I can add that to the list, I would probably want to put an ooc note about the deadswitch thing on that one anyway
13:41 < Kel> Otherwise, I'd expect the people reading to be confused, although the ooc note could just explain that that should also be ignored. So either way works
13:41 < Teceler> noted
13:41 < Teceler> I need to make an actual list
13:52 < Adelene> Hey sonatagreen. How visible are Dungeon!mages to see magic vision? Does it vary with MP?
13:54 < sonatagreen> I think it should follow the same rules as Carp mages. Neither shows up at all to Detect Magic, though a person with a spell cast on them (such as the illusion spell) should show up to Detect Magic.
13:54 < Adelene> *nod*
13:55 < Adelene> So Miles shows up regardless, because permanent comprehend language, but he's nto gratuitous about it. Sounds good. :)
13:56 < Kel> Would the arcany possibly show up as magical?
13:56 < Kel> or only if it is also an ongoing effect upon something>
13:56 < Kel> *?
13:56 < kappabeta> miles has so many permanent comp language on him at this point XDDDDDD
13:57 < Thatwasademo> oh man i just thought of something
13:57 < Kel> oh?
13:57 < Thatwasademo> viridian is probably going to mostly think of miles as "vorkosigan" if viridian hears miles's full name
13:58 < Kel> <3
13:58 < Kel> hahaha
13:58 < kappabeta> pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
13:58 < Teceler> XD
13:58 < Adelene> *giggle*
13:58 < sonatagreen> Arcany *in use* definitely shows up. Arcany just passively... well, there's the magical senses going on all the time, so probably.
13:58 < Teceler> at least that would not cause quite as many problems as doing that , I dunno, the Vorpatrils, would? :P
13:59 < Thatwasademo> what is miles's title
13:59 < kappabeta> title?
13:59 < Kel> Lord?
13:59 < Thatwasademo> like mister, captain, etc
13:59 < kappabeta> yeah
13:59 < Thatwasademo> "Lord Vorkosigan"
13:59 < kappabeta> you would call him Lord Vorkosigan
13:59 < Thatwasademo> viridian would~
14:00 < Thatwasademo> the only thing it's missing is being a color
14:00 < kappabeta> or technically also Lieutenant Vorkosigan, or Lieutenant Lord Vorkosigan XD
14:00 < kappabeta> it is not a colour
14:00 < kappabeta> alas
14:00 < Thatwasademo> he might be addressed as Lieutenant Vorkosigan more then
14:00 < Kel> It is brown and silver, but not quite the same
14:00 < kappabeta> although like, is victoria a colour?
14:00 < Teceler> XD
14:00 < Thatwasademo> victoria blue
14:00 < Thatwasademo> is a color
14:01 < Kel> I think it was asked earlier if everyone was named after colors, and the answer was no?
14:01 < Thatwasademo> vitellary isn't technically a color but rather a word for egg yolk
14:01 < Thatwasademo> i meant "the only thing missing from making him a crew member"
14:01 < kappabeta> hahahahaha
14:02 < Thatwasademo> not everyone is named something with V, either, it was just a trend at the time
14:02 < Kel> oh okay that makes more sense
14:02 < kappabeta> i googled vitellary and eventually got "dull yellow"
14:02 < kappabeta> so
14:02 < Thatwasademo> alliteration has been consistently popular though
14:02 < Thatwasademo> it's meant to be yellow through the fact that it's egg yolk
14:02 < Thatwasademo> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vitellary
14:04 < Thatwasademo> also verdigris isn't verdigris, he's too green
14:16 -!- Kel is now known as Kel|FoodnSATPractice
14:17 -!- Thatwasademo is now known as Xom
14:17 < Xom> brb
15:00 -!- MTC has quit
15:19 -!- sonatagreen has quit
15:38 -!- linkhyrule5 has joined #backstage
15:43 < linkhyrule5> so question
15:43 < linkhyrule5> has anyone here read City of Angles?
15:43 < Teceler> hello
15:44 < linkhyrule5> hello
15:44 < Teceler> I haven't
15:44 < linkhyrule5> won't be here for all that long
15:44 < linkhyrule5> You should! It's great
15:44 * Teceler adds to her (very long) to-read list
16:01 < linkhyrule5> on a side note - if Aestrix comes on, could you tell her (?) that I forgot I had about fifty family things today, and probably won't get back until after she goes to bed, so I probably won't be around for Inaveting today >.<
16:02 < linkhyrule5> I should be available tomorrow though!
16:02 < Teceler> good luck with the family things
16:02 < Teceler> and I will pass that along if we coincide
16:02 < linkhyrule5> thanks!
16:03 < linkhyrule5> Also there was a tag if you missed it
16:03 < linkhyrule5> Alternatively I'mbeing redundant :P
16:03 < linkhyrule5> -- Signed, the Department of Redundancy Department
16:03 < linkhyrule5> XP
16:04 < Teceler> you told me about that last night. I need to account hop to write a reply, yes, I keep getting distracted
16:04 < linkhyrule5> haha
16:04 < linkhyrule5> I know the feeling
16:04 < linkhyrule5> faaar too well
16:04 -!- Kel|FoodnSATPractice has quit
16:26 < Adelene> This kobold is TOO CUTE it is ILLEGAL. :D
16:31 -!- linkhyrule5 has quit
16:38 < kappabeta> Cutestbold.
16:38 < Adelene> :D
16:52 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
17:18 -!- kappabeta has quit
17:20 < Kel> Teceler, is it okay to reveal the planned Nexus trip now, as well as the other stuff?
17:21 < Teceler> if that works well for you, sure
17:21 < Kel> Okay, I think it flows pretty well with the rest of the paragraph
17:22 < Kel> Will this work?
17:22 < Kel> Uh, I'm glad you've got something that will protect you. If you can and would like to go into more details about it, I'd like to know, but I understand if you don't. If you have friends with interdimensional transportation abilities, it might be possible to take a short vacation to one of the other worlds? Which you might have fun with. I've been talking wit
17:23 < Kel> h Leaf about maybe going on a short trip to his world.
17:25 < Teceler> thing that may or may not be a problem: Thorn is going to be somewhat distracted by the 'taking a trip to Nexus' thing in that same paragraph XD. I'm not sure /how/ distracted
17:25 < Kel> heh
17:25 < Kel> He's trying to imply that it's going to make him safer, hey she might want to do it too
17:25 < Teceler> yeah, that works well XD
17:25 < Kel> okay, I'll leave it =)
17:26 < Teceler> except she is totally missing the point, it may take some repetitions there. But that was Expected
17:26 < Kel> repetition in later PMs is possible!
17:34 < Kel> sent
17:50 -!- sonatagreen has joined #backstage
17:50 < sonatagreen> KOBOLD SKRITCHES OH MY GOD
17:51 < Teceler> too much adorable. We have reached adorable overload.
17:51 < Adelene> heeee ^^
17:52 * Kel agrees, while making happy flailing gestures
17:52 < Adelene> *giggles*
17:53 < Kel> (eeeeeeeeeeee! she is very very cute!)
17:53 < Adelene> :D
17:54 -!- kappabeta has joined #backstage
17:54 < Teceler> so ridiculously cute
17:54 < Adelene> :D :D :D
17:54 < Kel> Hi kappa!
17:55 < Kel> We have been discussing the miracle of kobold cuteness!
17:55 < Adelene> <3 <3 <3
17:55 < Teceler> I'm not sure it's a miracle, it's perfectly explicable. They are cute. :P
17:55 < Adelene> *giggle*
17:56 < Kel> It is miraculous in scope
17:56 < Kel> =)
17:57 < Adelene> I think my favorite thing is the ... not balance, balance is exactly the wrong word, if balance was the thing this would not work nearly so well ... that she hits between cute and serious.
17:57 < Teceler> contrast?
17:57 < sonatagreen> tension?
17:57 < Adelene> Yes! That thing. ^^
17:57 < Adelene> Contrast.
17:58 < sonatagreen> The world is big and scary and she is small and scared and I want to cuddle her and make it better.
17:58 < Adelene> *She* doesn't think they're in tension, and if anyone tries to not take her seriously because she's cute she will probably bite them. ^^
17:58 < sonatagreen> which is adorable but uh
17:59 < Adelene> I mean, not *hard*.
17:59 < Adelene> ^^
17:59 < Kel> To me the cute does not remove from the seriousness
18:00 < Adelene> ^^
18:00 < Teceler> I mean, the adorable and the serious are not necessarily in the same areas, so they don't tend to conflict on things
18:00 < Teceler> ...that is not a good explaination
18:01 -!- linkhyrule5 has joined #backstage
18:01 < Kel> Hi!
18:01 < Adelene> The adorable *is* the serious, and the serious *is* the adorable, a lot of the time.
18:01 < linkhyrule5> back!
18:01 < sonatagreen> wb
18:01 < linkhyrule5> so, Teceler - cancel that
18:01 < Teceler> welcome back
18:01 < linkhyrule5> our car broke down
18:01 < Teceler> oh, fun
18:01 < Adelene> Like, there's a very specific reason she went for the scritches, there.
18:01 < linkhyrule5> so minus, no family things, plus, Inaveting
18:01 < Teceler> well, Aestrix has not been through
18:01 < Teceler> hm?
18:02 < Adelene> hm @ kobold, Tec?
18:02 < Teceler> yeah, hm was at Lurking
18:02 < linkhyrule5> I'm hm-ing at kobold too, actually
18:02 < linkhyrule5> *just caught up
18:03 -!- Aestrix_ has joined #backstage
18:03 < Adelene> Basically she concluded that her remaining worriedness wasn't, like - rational, not that that's how she's concieving it, and the solution to irrational worry is care, not debate/fixing.
18:04 < Teceler> ah
18:04 < linkhyrule5> fair
18:04 < Aestrix_> Hello!
18:04 < Aestrix_> Apparently I need to be poked to remember that this is a thing xD
18:04 < Adelene> ^^
18:04 < Teceler> (oh, and Firewall would like to borrow some kobold stress-management specialists to inflict on /all their personal/, possibly over the mesh to avoid unnecessary exposure to Eclipse
18:04 < Kel> Hi!
18:04 < Teceler> *)
18:04 < Teceler> hello
18:05 < sonatagreen> "over the mesh"?
18:05 < linkhyrule5> mesh approximately equals web
18:05 < Adelene> Firewall would be well advised to consult with Lurker about this rather than just collecting them from the wild. ^^
18:05 < Teceler> local equivalent of the internet, in this case more in the sense of forum
18:05 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix_ - hello!
18:05 < sonatagreen> right
18:05 < linkhyrule5> Inavet can be a thing!
18:05 < linkhyrule5> Well, Inavet is a thing, but Inavet-ing with ME can be a thing!
18:05 < linkhyrule5> ... Inavet is a person that exists. How about that. >.>
18:05 < Aestrix_> xD
18:06 < Aestrix_> <3
18:06 < Teceler> Firewall does not have interdimensional transport and in any case is not inclined to go kidnapping kobolds.
18:06 < Aestrix_> Yeah, sure
18:06 < Adelene> *nod*
18:06 < Teceler> unless they have a /really good reason/ which they don't
18:06 < Teceler> this is more 'I wish we had those'
18:06 < Teceler> 'because half our personnel are constantly a few problems away from snapping'
18:07 < Teceler> 'and that is not optimal'
18:07 < linkhyrule5> So, ME is about to send Inkspot a little "Aheh, I couldn't help but notice you're a rebel aganst your awful government, want some help?" PM
18:07 < Aestrix_> Hee
18:07 < Adelene> Well, Lurker should be able to find a larger tribe that's sensible and willing to go, if you don't care so much about the imperilled qualifier. Willingness, different question, but we can hash that out. :)
18:07 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - Heh. The downsides of being the saving-the-world team
18:07 < Aestrix_> I will go be on the forum for her reply, I am juggling at the moment <3
18:07 < linkhyrule5> hahah
18:07 < linkhyrule5> that's fine
18:07 < linkhyrule5> I'll be in and out too, things to do, people to be~ :P
18:08 < Aestrix_> Ha
18:08 -!- sonatagreen is now known as sonataway
18:08 < Aestrix_> Avet/Mial has ~finally happened~
18:08 < linkhyrule5> oh?
18:08 < linkhyrule5> Avet is the Elcenian Ivan, I thought?
18:08 < kappabeta> oh hey and Leaf needs to send Inkspot a pm dated Before The Inhiding Fiasco asking her about arcanizing the kobold
18:09 < kappabeta> the elcenian ivan is aurin
18:09 < linkhyrule5> Ahhh
18:09 < kappabeta> avet is the elcenian inavet
18:09 < Aestrix_> http://poll-the-stars.dreamwidth.org/1357.html?style=site&view=flat#comments
18:09 < linkhyrule5> Ahhhhhh
18:15 < Kel> I am off to create noodle-foods!
18:15 -!- Kel is now known as Kelaway
18:15 < Aestrix_> Have fun!
18:15 < Kelaway> thanks!
18:15 < kappabeta> have fun and also noodles!
18:15 < Teceler> enjoy
18:15 < Aestrix_> I still cannot be Aestrix. That's annoying.
18:15 * Aestrix_ shakes her fist
18:16 < kappabeta> you can't?
18:16 < kappabeta> that's weird
18:16 < kappabeta> XD
18:16 < Aestrix_> So weird!
18:16 < Teceler> someone else on the server stole your name! dundundun
18:17 < Aestrix_> DUN DUN DUN
18:17 < Teceler> or possibly you are ghosted, but there isn't an Aestrix in here so
18:17 < kappabeta> i think the someone else on the server who stole her name is in fact also her
18:17 < Aestrix_> xD
18:17 < Teceler> XD
18:17 < Aestrix_> My other me?
18:17 < Teceler> did you leave anything logged in?
18:17 < Aestrix_> Not that I know of
18:18 < kappabeta> aestrix is currently aestrix in another channel on this server, would that do the thing?
18:18 -!- linkhyrule5 is now known as test
18:18 < Teceler> ...if they're seperate sessions, yes, yes it would
18:18 < Aestrix_> Aha.
18:18 -!- test is now known as linkhyrule5
18:18 < Aestrix_> That's probably it then
18:19 < linkhyrule5> I can't be Aestrix either, just testing a thing
18:19 < Aestrix_> Heh
18:19 < Teceler> pick one of them and /join the other channel with it and you will not have this problem
18:19 * Teceler nods sagely
18:20 < Aestrix_> Won't let me
18:20 < Teceler> ...hm
18:20 < linkhyrule5> So I'm doing the glowfic thing
18:20 < linkhyrule5> All of ME's PMs start with "Greetings From" or "Greetings Regarding"
18:20 < linkhyrule5> and try to be truthy
18:21 < Aestrix_> Pff
18:21 < Teceler> you are using mibbit, I do not know how to debug that, sorry
18:21 < Teceler> ...oh ME XD
18:21 < linkhyrule5> This one is probably going to be "Greetings Regarding Your Terrible Government"
18:21 < Teceler> XDXDXD
18:21 < linkhyrule5> Er, her connection is secure yes?
18:21 < Aestrix_> xD
18:21 < Aestrix_> Yes, it is
18:21 < linkhyrule5> ME would check to make sure that wouldn't get censored or something
18:22 < Aestrix_> Inavet specifically built it as a huge 'screw you' to the censoring.
18:22 < Teceler> (He should sent Prism a pm about that. --A different one. Enhanced to break through the censors. There is no possible way this could go wrong.)
18:22 < Teceler> (:P)
18:22 < Aestrix_> xD
18:22 < linkhyrule5> hahahah
18:22 < linkhyrule5> No way at all
18:22 < Aestrix_> Inavet: "NO NO DON'T DO THAT!"
18:22 < linkhyrule5> *is kind of tempted to do that as an omake*
18:22 < linkhyrule5> "Hi! [b]YOUR GOVERNMENT IS AWFUL[/b]"
18:22 < Aestrix_> xD
18:22 < Aestrix_> Prism: *is offended*
18:22 < linkhyrule5> *Prism is mobbed by Ministry officicals*
18:23 < Aestrix_> And then that, yes xD
18:23 < Adelene> heeee4
18:23 < Teceler> hee
18:23 < Aestrix_> But no, seriously, someone telling Prism her government is awful will offend her
18:23 < Aestrix_> She thinks they're great
18:24 < linkhyrule5> hahah
18:24 < Teceler> yeah, he'd have to cloak it against evesdropping too and somehow convince her not to tell anyone and anything highgrade enough to do that would probably get blocked by esthfora
18:24 < Teceler> hee
18:24 < linkhyrule5> Admittedly, this is because the Ministry is very good at propaganda.
18:24 < linkhyrule5> Also censorship.
18:24 < Teceler> yes
18:24 < Aestrix_> Yes
18:24 < linkhyrule5> This is part of why ME really likes information spells
18:25 < linkhyrule5> because he is kind of fed up of problems going unnoticed because nobody knows about them.
18:25 < Teceler> what initially turned Inavet against them?
18:25 < linkhyrule5> (Admittedly, in his context, it's more "Goddarn it you idiots stop trying to summon Cthulhu", but.)
18:25 < Teceler> (XD)
18:25 < Aestrix_> She got ritualed, and then from there she magically noticed a lot of fucked up stuff
18:25 < Teceler> ah
18:25 < Teceler> why did she get ritualed?
18:25 < linkhyrule5> Who did the actual not-screwed-up ritual for her?
18:26 < Teceler> also that
18:26 < Aestrix_> The turning point was a mix of noticing the censoring (via being good at crystal) noticing the enforcers being magically crippled, and noticing that she could have kids but she has been magiced to not.
18:26 < Aestrix_> She actually got the not-screwed-up ritual by actually being very trustworthy and like, a good candidate for being in charge of shit
18:26 < linkhyrule5> ...
18:26 < linkhyrule5> Hey, Aestrix.
18:27 < Aestrix_> Yes? :P
18:27 < linkhyrule5> Elemental Water completes things.
18:27 < Teceler> ...ahahahaha
18:27 < linkhyrule5> Targeted properly, it completes /anything./
18:27 < Aestrix_> xD
18:27 < Aestrix_> I mean, Ina's got the problem pretty solved
18:27 < linkhyrule5> Can she fix the originals?
18:27 < linkhyrule5> the ones who are already crippled?
18:27 < Aestrix_> She cannot
18:27 < linkhyrule5> xP
18:27 < Aestrix_> Can elemental water fix that thing? xD
18:28 < linkhyrule5> Why yes. Yes it can.
18:28 < Aestrix_> Pfffffff
18:28 < linkhyrule5> So long as you imagine it properly, as "not reaching your pootential?"
18:28 < linkhyrule5> Why yes, Water can complete your potential for you.
18:28 < Teceler> and some of the crippled people are probably even not people do wouldn't want having magic!
18:28 < Aestrix_> Mm. I'm not sure I like that though xD
18:28 < linkhyrule5> haha
18:28 < Teceler> *you wouldn't want
18:28 < linkhyrule5> Well, it'd be hard to get it to that Truth
18:28 < linkhyrule5> So there's excuses built in if you want it not to work
18:29 < Aestrix_> I like the aspect of the ritual where it is one time only, do not screw it up
18:29 < Aestrix_> Because occasionally I am a terrible person
18:29 < linkhyrule5> ha
18:29 < linkhyrule5> Well it won't let you do the Miles thing, even if you could otherwise do the Miles thing.
18:30 < linkhyrule5> But yeah ,it's still a pretty big second change
18:30 < linkhyrule5> *chance
18:30 < Aestrix_> Yes xD
18:31 < kappabeta> pfffffff omg
18:31 < kappabeta> but but but aestrix
18:31 < linkhyrule5> Btw, how /does/ the Ministry take care of the star?
18:31 < kappabeta> Miles WANTS a way to route around lurker's problem with the ritual
18:31 < kappabeta> the star?
18:31 < Aestrix_> xD
18:31 < Aestrix_> They have made their star not eventually explode
18:31 < kappabeta> oh nifty.
18:31 < Teceler> yes, but how? :P
18:32 < Aestrix_> Because I realized that if these people live to be ten thousand or so, it would be very inconvenient for their star to explode
18:32 < kappabeta> XD yes
18:32 < Teceler> (also, is it at the point where it might if that wasn't in place?)
18:32 < Teceler> yeah that would be
18:32 < Aestrix_> Uh, basically, plant + stone + heat all together
18:32 < Aestrix_> In a very complicated fashion.
18:32 < Aestrix_> To make it so the sun does not explode and will just keep on being a sun right where it is
18:33 < Aestrix_> Plant to game the system, stone to keep it from changing, heat to mess with a temperature thing.
18:34 < Aestrix_> Probably some metal to find the weak points and poke 'em with other stuff.
18:34 < linkhyrule5> Plant to game the system?
18:34 < linkhyrule5> Also yeah, that thing about how close it is to red giant ness otherwise
18:34 < Aestrix_> Plant craft is basically about screwing with shit
18:34 < Teceler> XD
18:35 < Aestrix_> I have no idea, it's probably pretty close and became an issue a while ago
18:36 < linkhyrule5> ... how old is the ministry?
18:37 < linkhyrule5> I mean, human civilization is only like 100 lifetimes old at this point
18:37 < Aestrix_> Very, very old. 40,000 + years, at least.
18:37 < Aestrix_> These people play with big numbers and are very stable about it xD
18:37 < Teceler> it /is/ run by immortals
18:37 < Aestrix_> Yep
18:38 < kappabeta> If they live for ten thousand years then 40k years is _short_
18:38 < Aestrix_> Yes :)
18:38 < Aestrix_> Do you want an actual number instead of a vague ballpark of 'Older than the very short time'?
18:38 < linkhyrule5> hahah
18:38 < kappabeta> <3
18:38 < Aestrix_> <3
18:38 < Teceler> XD
18:42 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix_ - PM sent
18:42 < Aestrix_> <3
18:43 < Aestrix_> Ina made a squeaking sound at "Greetings Regarding Your Terrible Government."
18:43 < Aestrix_> Without even opening it
18:43 < Teceler> XD
18:43 < Aestrix_> xD
18:44 < linkhyrule5> aww
18:48 < linkhyrule5> I'm kind of tempted to bring in a character from Ore Twintails
18:48 < linkhyrule5> just for the mass wtf
18:49 < Aestrix_> xD
18:49 < linkhyrule5> "Your magic is powered by... twintails."
18:49 < Teceler> XD
18:49 < linkhyrule5> "My /love/ for twintails. Just having them isn't enough or even all that relevant!"
18:49 < linkhyrule5> "I stand corrected. Oh, gods, what is wrong with the world."
18:50 < Aestrix_> tag ME xD
18:50 < linkhyrule5> ME is tagged
18:50 < Teceler> that reminds me
18:52 < linkhyrule5> tag
18:52 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: Did ME target just the Milky Way with that, or the whole universe?
18:52 < linkhyrule5> Yes it should :P
18:52 < linkhyrule5> The MIlky Way is just how he imagines it for now
18:52 < linkhyrule5> if he sees a dot going off the map or knows there is one he'll zoom out
18:54 < Teceler> there are dots popping up off the map as they continue throwing them around randomly in the vicinity of any star they can target. Which is, apparently, a lot.
18:54 < linkhyrule5> ....
18:54 < linkhyrule5> these are /terrible aliens/
18:54 < linkhyrule5> yes, he's keeping track of all of them
18:54 < Teceler> They are /very angry aliens/
18:54 < Teceler> :P
18:54 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
18:55 < kappabeta> what in the hell do these aliens even think they're doing
18:55 < Aestrix_> Wrecking stuff, I assume
18:55 < Teceler> the galaxy will BURN FOR WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM
18:55 < linkhyrule5> I figure they have some sort of very nobility-focused culture
18:55 < linkhyrule5> where you have to take revenge for slights
18:56 < linkhyrule5> and with somethinig this big they just go "well we'll just keep taking revenge until we figure out who sent it!"
18:56 < Teceler> I thought they were just very angry because exsurgent virus
18:56 < linkhyrule5> I mean, people don't usually think like that? I figure they had some reason to lash /out/
18:56 < linkhyrule5> and piss off everyone in existence
18:57 < Teceler> well, I mean. They had reason to blame humanity. But yeah, they were kind of like, 'you know what, we are doomed, we can take EVERYONE ELSE EVER with us, let's do that'
18:57 < linkhyrule5> Hm
18:57 < Teceler> 'WE ARE THE ONLY ONES ALLOWED TO SUCCEED EVER; WE HAVE FAILED SO EVERYONE WILL'
18:57 < linkhyrule5> How doomed are they?
18:57 < Teceler> I'm not sure?
18:58 < linkhyrule5> I guess if they all their seed AIs got hit
18:58 < Teceler> I mean, the group doing this might not be the only survivors.
18:58 < linkhyrule5> then they're kind of constantly on the run
18:58 < linkhyrule5> true
18:58 < linkhyrule5> It's more believable if it's not everyone
18:58 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix_ tag!
18:58 < Teceler> and they are very traumatized by exsurgent virus
18:59 < Teceler> but yeah
18:59 < Aestrix_> Sorry, distracted <3
18:59 < linkhyrule5> haa
19:00 < Aestrix_> tag ME
19:00 < Teceler> but I am getting the impression that they think everyone else has conspired against them somehow
19:01 * linkhyrule5 is tagged
19:01 < linkhyrule5> heh
19:01 < linkhyrule5> */me is tagged
19:01 < linkhyrule5> */ME is tagged
19:01 < Teceler> ....ha
19:01 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - that could be it. Particularly if it's a fringe group
19:01 < linkhyrule5> Oh, Aestrix
19:01 < Aestrix_> Yeees?
19:01 < linkhyrule5> were you there when we decided that Ta ga Tame no Sekai would be ME's cut loose song?
19:01 < linkhyrule5> Because of a silly pun/reference?
19:02 < Aestrix_> I might have been, I'd have to listen to it again to see if I remember it
19:02 < linkhyrule5> Heh
19:02 < Aestrix_> But it doesn't sound familiar
19:02 < linkhyrule5> Well, basically, it's because the name means "A World for the Sake of Somebody Else"
19:02 < linkhyrule5> And wherever ME lets loose, it will probably be in someone else's Truth
19:02 < linkhyrule5> a World that was intended for Somebody Else to live in
19:02 < linkhyrule5> :P
19:02 < Aestrix_> Hee
19:03 < linkhyrule5> Also, "For the Sake of Somebody Else's World", too, I'm not sure that's avalid translation but it's definitely what he's doing
19:03 < Teceler> so, check me if I'm wrong, ME is now seeing how the virus ended up with these aliens?
19:03 < linkhyrule5> Yup
19:03 < Aestrix_> Yes I think I was there for when you found it and translated a bit of it, though I don't think you'd declared it his cute loose theme
19:03 < linkhyrule5> Which is probably
19:03 < linkhyrule5> "appears in a flash of magic"
19:03 < linkhyrule5> I'm going to end up translating the whole thing properly at some point
19:03 < linkhyrule5> I kind of like the overall theme of
19:04 < linkhyrule5> "Yeah, everyone kind of sucks, and kind of hurts people on accident - but they have things worth protecting, and are worth protecting anyway
19:04 < Aestrix_> <3
19:04 < linkhyrule5> and even if the world is meant for somebody else there are things you can do to make it safer for the ones taht are here"
19:05 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: tag
19:05 < linkhyrule5> yay, tags!
19:05 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix_ - is the Ministry doing anything in particular that she would like to know about at the moment?
19:05 < linkhyrule5> Like, say, "there is someone in your apartment trying to murder you" ?
19:05 < linkhyrule5> :V
19:06 < Aestrix_> Pff
19:06 < Teceler> XD
19:06 < Aestrix_> Hmmm
19:06 < Aestrix_> There is currently a group of people that know where she is and are planning out how to kill her in the most efficient way possible
19:07 < linkhyrule5> Oh fun.
19:07 < Teceler> what, they've entirely given up on maybe capturing her if a opportunity arises? :P
19:07 < linkhyrule5> He can get their names, current location, and current base pretty trivially
19:07 < linkhyrule5> He can get the plan they're most likely to decide on with a little more effort
19:08 < Aestrix_> Yep, honestly capturing her was only so they could toss her as a immortality sacrifice and have her suffer for eternity instead of just dying
19:08 < linkhyrule5> ...
19:08 < linkhyrule5> such charming people
19:08 < Aestrix_> <3
19:08 < Aestrix_> To be fair, she has pissed them off
19:08 < Teceler> how many of those do they tend to need over a timespan?
19:09 < Teceler> I mean. The ones the have don't stop working, so it's just when they want to induct someone new?
19:09 < Aestrix_> They are completely sustainable at the number they have now, but every time they immortalize a new person they need some more sacrifices. 3-4 people, I think.
19:09 < linkhyrule5> How does the immortal ritual thing work anyway?
19:10 < Teceler> yeah, I think what I was asking is how often they want to do that
19:10 < linkhyrule5> SOme bizarre stone/plant/blood cross?
19:10 < Aestrix_> It's a bizarre cross of something, yeah. Stone/plant/blood/aura, because the sacrifices need to be in a certain spot
19:11 < Aestrix_> How often... Nnnot that often, actually. One every 10,000 years, if that.
19:11 < linkhyrule5> So there are proabbly only a few dozen people in this position
19:11 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
19:11 < linkhyrule5> ?
19:11 < Aestrix_> Yep
19:11 < Aestrix_> That's about right
19:11 < linkhyrule5> Yay?
19:11 < Aestrix_> ~Yay~
19:12 < Teceler> ...do they have one lined up at the moment or were they, in a world were that was even slightly fesible, planning to just hold onto Inavet until they do?
19:12 < linkhyrule5> At least it's not "hundred of hundreds"
19:12 < Teceler> well, at least that puts a hard cap on the number of people in horrible eternal torment
19:12 < Aestrix_> They have one lined up
19:12 < Teceler> ah
19:12 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - er, mild miscommunication, I think?
19:12 < Teceler> hm?
19:12 < linkhyrule5> When I say "ask the world" I'm kind of being poetic, it's more like... pulling the information out of the world?
19:12 < Aestrix_> Inavet actually is an awful candidate for this thing, but they ~really~ hate her xD
19:12 < linkhyrule5> He doesn't need to know where it's coming from, basically
19:13 < linkhyrule5> he just goes "What is the answer" and the spell goes "It's this!"
19:13 < Teceler> the world still does not know, because it did not come from here
19:13 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, but I was asking "Why do they think it's human?"
19:13 < Teceler> that is not information contained in this world
19:13 < Teceler> ...oh
19:13 < linkhyrule5> which should give him something like "Because it looks like it was made by humans!"
19:13 < Teceler> well, I do not actually know the answer to that question before that, but, yeah
19:13 < linkhyrule5> which is kind of part of what gets him to "yuuuup this is that thing that escaped Entelechy isn't it."
19:14 < Teceler> the magically appearing and not being anywhre in the universe before that doesn't do it? :P
19:14 < Teceler> so is that from the POV of the aliens or general facts about it that he could tell with study?
19:14 < Eva> ... I should make a world that works on the D&D RAW
19:14 < linkhyrule5> oh gods
19:14 < linkhyrule5> whyyyy
19:14 < linkhyrule5> why would you do that
19:15 < linkhyrule5> base it off of Harry Potter and the Natural 230
19:15 < linkhyrule5> *20
19:15 < Eva> Because unphysics is fun
19:15 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - that's "why do the aliens think it's human," so it's the reasons they have, but it's the real reasons they have if there are relative biases
19:15 < linkhyrule5> *relevant
19:15 < Teceler> alien physics, Eva, alien physics :P
19:15 < Teceler> okay
19:15 < Eva> Lol yep
19:17 < Eva> Oh by the way, Linkhyrule, I recall you were talking about themes for characters and you posted one for Astra
19:17 < Eva> Are you the right person?
19:17 < Teceler> edited
19:17 < linkhyrule5> Maybe?
19:17 < Eva> (Am I confusing you with someone?)
19:17 < linkhyrule5> Quite possible
19:17 < Aestrix_> I posted one for Astra
19:17 < linkhyrule5> I don't remember posting one for Astra
19:17 < Teceler> does that work better?
19:18 < Eva> Ah, alright!
19:18 < linkhyrule5> Better, yeah
19:18 < Aestrix_> <3
19:18 < linkhyrule5> Alright, time to do a revelation post then
19:18 < linkhyrule5> Dunno how revelationy it'll be
19:18 * Eva thinks your Astra theme is a little bit too classical for her
19:18 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix_ - so, want to tell me a thingy?
19:18 < linkhyrule5> er
19:18 * Eva prefers https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qXHfYSl8vcg
19:18 < linkhyrule5> Location, names, current plan
19:19 < linkhyrule5> er, most likely plan
19:19 -!- Kelaway has quit
19:19 < Aestrix_> Hee. I am a fan of classical stuff, I admit <3
19:19 < Aestrix_> Uh, yes, give me a bit though
19:19 < linkhyrule5> kk
19:20 * Eva might also suggest https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pFkOYRl5hTM
19:20 < Aestrix_> Ooo, Voltaire!
19:20 < Eva> Voltaire <3
19:20 < Aestrix_> <3
19:21 < Aestrix_> I had a friend turn up her nose at Voltaire, and then I showed her Beast of Pirate's Bay and now she owns the song xD
19:21 < Aestrix_> Bwuahahaha
19:21 < Aestrix_> All part of my evil plan
19:21 < Eva> My ahahah
19:21 < Eva> All of my ahahahah
19:22 < Aestrix_> <3
19:22 < Eva> Autocorrect can out prevent my evil laughter
19:22 < Eva> Cannot
19:22 < Eva> Wow.
19:22 < Aestrix_> <3
19:23 < Eva> Oh hey, this one also fits nicely
19:23 < Eva> https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLCED4294BF1E91D04¶ms=OAFIAVhK&v=8R5MuQh3BSw&mode=NORMAL
19:23 < Aestrix_> Link - things to tell you. Uh. They're a few buildings away, well out of Ina's sensing range
19:23 < Aestrix_> I will have to think of names
19:24 * Eva considers. Mm, maybe a bit vicious for Astra.
19:24 < linkhyrule5> kk
19:25 < Aestrix_> They're all very powerful people, though. Their current plan is to disguise their arcanisthood, and that person darts her with the most vicious poisonous cocktail of awful pain and death the - I will say there's four - the four of them and their minions can make
19:25 < Aestrix_> and that a person*
19:26 < Aestrix_> I think that something will be a something that can block her arcany, while they're at it, so if she manages to heal a bit of it she's still crippled and they can chop her head off and set her on fire.
19:26 < Aestrix_> It is a 'catch her by surprise and use overwhelming force' kind of plan.
19:27 < Aestrix_> Eva - the Emilie Autumn song was nice <3
19:28 < Eva> <3
19:31 -!- Hadassah has joined #backstage
19:32 < Aestrix_> Hello
19:34 < linkhyrule5> hey Hadassah
19:34 < Hadassah> Hiyas
19:34 < Hadassah> Hows everyone?
19:34 < Aestrix_> I'm pretty good ^_^
19:34 < Adelene> ^^
19:37 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - ME's next post is basically just going to be "So, uh, there a bunch of people trying to murder you. They're these people, and they're here, and their plan is antimagic pain death poison from surprise, and they're going to do it T minus whatever minutes"
19:37 < linkhyrule5> "you may want to leave. Or something."
19:37 < linkhyrule5> (how'd they find her, anyway?)
19:38 < Aestrix_> I'm not sure, I think they might have made a new fancy magitech thing to track arcanists
19:38 < Aestrix_> Inavet's reaction to this: "..."
19:38 < Aestrix_> Inavet: "Miles can I go stay at your place for a little while."
19:38 < Aestrix_> Or something. xD
19:39 < linkhyrule5> hahaah
19:39 < linkhyrule5> Hey kappabeta
19:39 < linkhyrule5> Miles gets ME brought to his doorstep
19:39 < linkhyrule5> what's his response? :P
19:39 < kappabeta> what? XD
19:40 < linkhyrule5> ME is about to tell Inavet that there's a bunch of commandos trying to murder her.
19:40 -!- Eva has quit
19:40 < linkhyrule5> Her response is apparently "Miles can I crash at your house"
19:40 < linkhyrule5> and ME's scry-focus is going to follow her
19:40 < linkhyrule5> and presumably this is not going to be a secret, so.
19:40 < kappabeta> hahaha
19:41 < kappabeta> idk, I'm having trouble knowing any things about how Miles reacts to things in the "now" because Mark is still stuck in "two days ago he was battling space marines under a lake, but then what happened??" limbo
19:42 < linkhyrule5> hahaah
19:42 < Teceler> probably stuck in the WoD regardless of other factors XD
19:42 < linkhyrule5> Teceler - tag. Probably also end
19:42 < linkhyrule5> but depends on what you think of the last post
19:42 < linkhyrule5> Also wow that smile was a terrible choice
19:42 < linkhyrule5> I'm going to actually facecast now
19:43 < kappabeta> <3
19:43 < linkhyrule5> It's supposed to be "peaceful smile/cold fury"
19:43 < Teceler> well, he never ended up pulling a sample of the virus and freaking out project Ozma
19:43 < kappabeta> and instead it's "the Dark Lord Waldemart"
19:43 < Teceler> and is this before or after he does his general scry
19:44 < linkhyrule5> Ah, right, he needs to go get infected
19:44 < linkhyrule5> and set off the Wards
19:44 < linkhyrule5> hahaahah
19:44 < linkhyrule5> yeah
19:44 < Teceler> I mean, he doesn't /have/ to, but it would be amusing
19:44 < linkhyrule5> oh, kappa, are you watching?
19:44 < linkhyrule5> yeah, let's do that
19:45 < Teceler> and he might want to get ALL THE INFORMATION HE CAN to give Firewall?
19:45 < kappabeta> watching what
19:45 < linkhyrule5> Eclipse
19:45 < Teceler> the thread
19:45 < kappabeta> i am watching the thread yes
19:45 < kappabeta> it is a good
19:45 < Teceler> :)
19:45 < linkhyrule5> I am a gald
19:45 < linkhyrule5> *glad
19:45 < Teceler> that is good to hear, yes
19:46 -!- Kel has joined #backstage
19:46 < kappabeta> maaaaaaaan
19:46 < Kel> Hi!
19:46 < Teceler> hello
19:47 < kappabeta> I need to write a pm ~~in the past~~ from Leaf to Inkspot re: arcanizing Lurker
19:47 < Aestrix_> Hello
19:47 < kappabeta> brain don't wanna
19:47 < Aestrix_> I'm sorry Kappa xD
19:47 < kappabeta> maybe i should food or something
19:47 < Kel> Ack, time shenanigans
19:47 < kappabeta> also i really wish endovior would reappear from wherever they vanished to
19:47 < Aestrix_> So you could un time shenanigans stuff? <3
19:47 < kappabeta> yes!
19:47 < kappabeta> as far as i recall they were like "I'll be gone for an hour" and then... never... came back...
19:47 < Teceler> Kel, Thorn's response is pending me working out what to do about the deadman's switch thing
19:48 < kappabeta> i hope nothing, like, bad happened to them.
19:48 < Kel> Okay, I'm curious what Thorn's planning to do?
19:48 < Teceler> otherwise it is done, though I want your opinion on
19:48 < kappabeta> i hope that they were not eaten by weasels.
19:48 < Kel> I also hope that
19:48 < Teceler> yeah
19:48 < Kel> (that was originally in response to nothing bad happened, but it also applies to the latter)
19:48 < Teceler> "The... oh, the deadswitch. Essentially, what is does is under certain circumstances (the classic example, and the one that is built in, is dying) or when manually activated, it melts the cortical stack to prevent its recovery by hostile forces. This can damage the morph, and also prevents friendly forces from recovery it, but in situations where it is triggered that tends to not be a relevant concern. They were originally
19:48 < Teceler> developed as a countermeasure against TITAN headhunter drones, but has spread into more common use."
19:49 < linkhyrule5> Oh, Aestrix, what's your opinion on Hot Wheels?
19:49 < Teceler> wherein Thorn TOTALLY FAILS to be reassuring, I don't know if I could have done better if I was trying XD
19:49 < Aestrix_> The toy car?
19:50 < Kel> this will probably lead to, like, "you know, I hear Nexus is really nice this time of universe, I'm already planning on going, wouldn't it be cool to meet in person?"
19:50 < Teceler> well, Thorn was going to look at it, and probably go 'yes, that looks good' except now I don't know if that is actually possible XD
19:50 < kappabeta> hahahahah
19:50 < Aestrix_> Everyone dogpiles on Nexus. xD
19:50 < kappabeta> oh my god XD
19:50 < Kel> Home of interdimensional nonsense!~
19:50 < kappabeta> I mean I'd be all in favour of everyone dogpiling on Nexus if Mark wasn't in limbo!
19:50 < Aestrix_> Inavet: ".... Um. People are trying to kill me in my world, so."
19:51 < Teceler> Thorn: a, we don't have interdimensional transport, b, exsurgent virus, c, what are you freaking out about?
19:51 < kappabeta> everyone should totally dogpile on nexus.
19:51 < Aestrix_> Heee
19:51 < Teceler> XD
19:51 < Adelene> *distributes kobolds* ^^
19:51 < Kel> "nothing I'm sure your world is just the greatest and the best and not awful at all and you won't be horrifically killed, I just want to see you, friend! I think Leaf can manage it probably"
19:51 < kappabeta> kobolds :D
19:51 < Aestrix_> Hee
19:51 < kappabeta> <3 kobolds
19:52 < Aestrix_> <3 kobolds
19:52 < Adelene> :D
19:52 < Kel> yes
19:52 < Aestrix_> Lurking hiding the maple syrup from Ina
19:52 < Teceler> that may actually result in Thorn realizing what the problem is
19:52 < Adelene> heeeee
19:52 < Teceler> /so much adorable/
19:52 < Adelene> :D
19:52 < Aestrix_> So much! <3
19:53 < Kel> I mean, he will probably phrase it slightly more subtly just in case
19:53 < Teceler> "So, it occurs to me that, um, I assumed some common background..."
19:53 < Kel> XD
19:54 < Teceler> somehow I expect this to result in DL telling Leaf to watch Firewall carefully, at the very least
19:54 < linkhyrule5> haahhah
19:55 < Teceler> which is unfortunate for the goal of actually having them cooperate with World-Tree, but oh well
19:55 < Kel> He is definitely planning to check it out whenever he works up the nerve to go outside
19:55 -!- sonataway is now known as sonatagreen
19:55 < Teceler> oh, Thorn didn't scare him off looking at Eclipse quite that much? That is useful
19:55 < Kel> Oh right
19:55 < Kel> nvm
19:56 -!- mode/#backstage [+qo sonatagreen sonatagreen] by ChanServ
19:56 < linkhyrule5> hey
19:56 < Kel> Welcome back!
19:56 < Kel> He will... Is ME in the World Tree?
19:56 < Teceler> welcome back
19:56 < linkhyrule5> Yah
19:56 -!- mode/#backstage [-o sonatagreen] by sonatagreen
19:56 < linkhyrule5> So
19:56 < linkhyrule5> I'm bad at faces
19:56 < linkhyrule5> Someone describe this to me?
19:56 < linkhyrule5> http://nd06.jxs.cz/864/618/eaa8587e41_90798137_o2.jpg
19:56 < linkhyrule5> I'm going for "neutral, flat"
19:56 < Kel> probably not happy?
19:56 < linkhyrule5> I still need a good "everyday" picture
19:57 < Teceler> Thorn wants to look at DL's deadman's switch settings and go 'sure, that will definitely not trigger if someone in your own universe kidnaps you'
19:57 < Kel> looks maybe tired and upset?
19:57 < Aestrix_> He feels neutralish, a bit of tired, yeah
19:57 < Kel> XD He will be happy about that pronouncement, and hope that it isn't true
19:57 < linkhyrule5> lol
19:57 < linkhyrule5> kay
19:57 < linkhyrule5> that'll do
19:57 < Kel> He will probably recommend that ME check out the Firewall as an organization
19:57 < linkhyrule5> still looking for "Tohsaka Tokiomi looking happy"
19:58 < linkhyrule5> He will find out that ME is about to help Firewall murder the exsurgent virus
19:58 < Aestrix_> I'm not sure he ever did
19:58 < Teceler> yeah, that would work
19:58 < Teceler> XD
19:58 < linkhyrule5> admittedly not very literally
19:58 < Aestrix_> Like, is happy a thing he could do?
19:58 < linkhyrule5> hahahaha
19:58 < linkhyrule5> He might have had a moment with Rin
19:58 -!- Eva has joined #backstage
19:58 < linkhyrule5> like
19:58 < linkhyrule5> ever?
19:58 < Aestrix_> I saw no proof, I'm not sure
19:58 < linkhyrule5> Maybe once?
19:58 < linkhyrule5> hahah
19:58 < Aestrix_> Maybe
19:58 < linkhyrule5> Oh, hey, Aestrix
19:58 < Aestrix_> With Rin
19:58 < Aestrix_> Yes?
19:58 < linkhyrule5> what's your opinion of Fast Wheels?
19:58 < Aestrix_> I don't know what that is! xD
19:59 < linkhyrule5> Fast Wheels is the horrible fan name for Kayneth :P
19:59 < linkhyrule5> Because, uh
19:59 < linkhyrule5> a) he's kind of a dick
19:59 < linkhyrule5> and b) Wheelchair
19:59 < Aestrix_> .. xD
19:59 < Kel> He is more worried that Firewall is going to horrifically kill Thorn.
19:59 < Teceler> yeah, but DL wants ME to check out /Firewall as an organization/ other than that, because... yeah, lthat
19:59 < Aestrix_> I feel bad for him but he's an asshole so not _that_ bad
19:59 < Aestrix_> And watching him get taken down was great
19:59 < Kel> Here is a slightly happy looking fanart of Tohsaka Tokiomi https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a8/65/2b/a8652bdf54aa864e462a130fc0d83f50.jpg
20:00 < Aestrix_> The aftermath was kind of. "... Oh. Protagonist. You terrify me."
20:00 < linkhyrule5> Okay, so, I don't know if you'll get the Touhou side of this ref
20:00 < linkhyrule5> but
20:00 < linkhyrule5> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSvOmu_ezbo&index=9&list=FLp1P-P02lG1qrxQsiSLbjPg
20:00 < linkhyrule5> And yeah, Kiritsugu is ... very very scary.
20:00 < Aestrix_> Yes, yes he is
20:00 < Kel> Oh, hi Eva
20:00 < Kel> !
20:00 < Aestrix_> Okay that video was too annoying to get through more than fifteen seconds of xD
20:00 < Aestrix_> Sorry
20:00 < Eva> Hi Kel!
20:00 * sonatagreen makes a myst/uru/d'ni character
20:01 < linkhyrule5> Is that Sakura looking /happy/ in the background?
20:01 < linkhyrule5> *SACRILEGE*
20:01 < linkhyrule5> *PARADOX*
20:01 < Aestrix_> HOW
20:01 < linkhyrule5> *IMPOSSIBRU*
20:01 < Aestrix_> DID THE WORLD END
20:01 < linkhyrule5> ...
20:01 < Kel> Ooh I am excited about the Myst character!
20:01 < linkhyrule5> *spoilers for Heaven's Feel REDACTED*
20:01 < Aestrix_> :P
20:01 < kappabeta> ooh ooh myst ooh ooh!
20:01 < kappabeta> oooh!
20:01 < kappabeta> oooooooooh!
20:01 < Aestrix_> Oo, Myst.
20:02 < Kel> (I only played the first game, because the controls on the next one were confusing)
20:02 < Aestrix_> Riven?
20:02 <~sonatagreen> yes
20:02 < Aestrix_> Riven was so great though. Confusing and difficult as hell and I needed a guide for it
20:02 < Aestrix_> But so great xD
20:02 <~sonatagreen> possibly my favorite game of all time
20:02 < Aestrix_> <3
20:02 < Kel> Yeah, it looked really interesting but I got so confused just trying to walk around I gave up
20:03 < Kel> I had found a dead guy by that time?
20:03 < Aestrix_> It's a game about wandering around xD
20:03 < Aestrix_> And figuring out what the hell is going on
20:03 <~sonatagreen> You can see a lot of pretty just wandering around.
20:03 < Aestrix_> Yeah
20:03 < Kel> I really like the art and wandering around
20:03 < linkhyrule5> ...
20:03 < Kel> it's just... I'd played RealMyst, which had a very intuitive way for moving around,
20:03 < linkhyrule5> so I found this udner "Tokiomi Tohsaka Happy"
20:04 < linkhyrule5> http://th00.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/325/3/0/tokiomi_tohsaka_by_za_18-d5liima.jpg
20:04 < Aestrix_> xD
20:04 < Aestrix_> CLOSE ENOUGH
20:04 < Eva> That's a broken link for me
20:04 < Eva> seems appropriate
20:04 < Kel> and then it was suddenly you click places and wind up somewhere else and I didn't know how I'd gotten there or how to get back
20:06 < Aestrix_> Aha.
20:06 < Aestrix_> Yeah, Riven does that sometimes xD
20:06 < Kel> And then I decided to replay Myst and it started suddenly crashing and losing my save files, so I gave up
20:07 < Aestrix_> Awww
20:07 < Aestrix_> *pet* *pet*
20:07 < Kel> *trill*
20:07 < linkhyrule5> *insert kobold scritches here*
20:07 < Teceler> linkhyrule5: Did you catch that question?
20:07 < Kel> XD
20:07 < linkhyrule5> nope
20:07 < linkhyrule5> which question?
20:07 < Teceler> <Kel> He is more worried that Firewall is going to horrifically kill Thorn.
20:07 < Teceler> <Teceler> yeah, but DL wants ME to check out /Firewall as an organization/ other than that, because... yeah, that
20:08 < Teceler> ...I guess that isn't /exactly/ a question, but
20:08 < linkhyrule5> oh
20:08 < linkhyrule5> yeah
20:08 < linkhyrule5> if he asks ME will doublecheck
20:08 < Teceler> yeah, that thing
20:08 < linkhyrule5> actually he probably alrady checked
20:08 < linkhyrule5> because like, organization with lots of power and control and backed by Seed AIs
20:09 < linkhyrule5> (which are going to be Hard To Miss on the whole World-Importance-O-Meter)
20:09 < Teceler> sssh, they're not supposed to know about the Seed AIs
20:09 < linkhyrule5> hahah
20:09 < Teceler> :P
20:09 < linkhyrule5> but yeah, he probably checked
20:09 < linkhyrule5> to make sure they were vaguely moral
20:09 < Teceler> which they are
20:09 < Kel> (DL will be very annoyed about not being able to check out an organization he wants to, once he finally goes outside)
20:09 < linkhyrule5> and it sounds like they are? The occasional use of torture is kind of sketchy, but. It seems kind of works
20:10 < linkhyrule5> loool
20:10 < Teceler> Can ME see if that's safe?
20:10 < linkhyrule5> Though I suppose it's less torture and more painful mindhacking, which isn't a /lot/ better but at least is "a method of getting informationt hat works"
20:10 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, he can see if it's safe
20:10 < Teceler> because if it is DL would probably appreciate being able to see for himself
20:10 < linkhyrule5> but like, it might actually not me
20:10 < linkhyrule5> *be
20:10 < linkhyrule5> But I suppose the virus has managed to /encode itself into Firewall's hierarchy/
20:10 < linkhyrule5> they're all screwed?
20:11 < Teceler> ...yeah
20:11 < Teceler> yeah they are
20:11 < Kel> It sounded like it was probably dangerous for people who weren't scary amounts of mind magic
20:11 < linkhyrule5> (... this is a thing that has happened in Entelechy)
20:11 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
20:11 < linkhyrule5> Hey kappabeta, is Alicorn ever going to join us? Because now I want ME to meet, er
20:11 < linkhyrule5> Kel? Kir?
20:11 < linkhyrule5> Argh
20:11 < Kel> ?
20:11 < linkhyrule5> The scary mind magic green unique
20:11 < Aestrix_> Keo?
20:11 < Kel> Keo!
20:11 < Teceler> Keo
20:11 < Kel> hahaha
20:11 < linkhyrule5> Keo!
20:11 < linkhyrule5> That's it
20:12 < linkhyrule5> loool tripple response
20:12 < Aestrix_> Ha I ninjad you this time Kel
20:12 < kappabeta> Alicorn isn't going to MWF, I don't think, but can evidently be induced to glowfic with MWFers
20:12 < Aestrix_> I ninjad everyone
20:12 < Teceler> ahem
20:12 < Kel> It doesn't show up that way on mine, Aestrix
20:12 < linkhyrule5> I might do a ME in Elcenia sandbox
20:12 < Kel> Mine says I was first
20:12 < Teceler> ...ahaha
20:12 < linkhyrule5> Mine says Aestrix was first?
20:12 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix-Kel_Teceler-Kel
20:12 < Teceler> apparantly we were really simultanous
20:12 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
20:12 < Kel> Mine says Kel, Aestrix_, Teceler
20:13 < Aestrix_> xD
20:13 < Teceler> (Mine thinks I was first)
20:13 < kappabeta> aestrix kel teceler
20:13 < Aestrix_> :)
20:13 < Aestrix_> Other people are my witnesses
20:13 < linkhyrule5> hey
20:13 < linkhyrule5> http://www.zerochan.net/1213883#full
20:13 < Aestrix_> ~I was first~
20:13 < Teceler> XD
20:13 < linkhyrule5> If I crop out the head, will this work?
20:13 < Aestrix_> ...
20:13 < Teceler> your computer is probably closer to theirs :P
20:13 < Aestrix_> No, that face is terrifying
20:13 < linkhyrule5> The leftover "day" is going to be awkward
20:13 < linkhyrule5> loooool
20:13 < linkhyrule5> really?
20:13 < Aestrix_> Yes
20:13 < Aestrix_> Yes it is
20:13 < linkhyrule5> why is it terrifying?
20:13 < kappabeta> It's a very...
20:13 < kappabeta> "hey babe, can I drink your spinal fluid"
20:13 < kappabeta> face
20:13 < linkhyrule5> .....
20:13 < linkhyrule5> Er.
20:13 < Aestrix_> Yes
20:13 < Aestrix_> That
20:13 < Kel> hahaha
20:14 < Aestrix_> It is very that
20:14 < linkhyrule5> Okay...
20:14 < kappabeta> XD
20:14 < Kel> (fight me) :p
20:14 < kappabeta> XD
20:14 < Aestrix_> (Bring it!)
20:14 < linkhyrule5> On a side note, best Gilgamesh theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTZX7hmBUAE
20:15 * Kel (throws a pillow of DOOM)
20:15 * Aestrix_ catches the pillow of DOOM.
20:15 * Aestrix_ looks at it.
20:16 * Aestrix_ throws it back, for lack of a better idea.
20:16 < kappabeta> oh my goodness, a pillow of DOOM!
20:16 < Teceler> XD
20:16 < kappabeta> not just doom
20:16 < kappabeta> DOOM!
20:16 < Aestrix_> DOOM!
20:16 < kappabeta> i wanna hug the pillow of DOOM.
20:16 < Kel> DOOOOM!
20:16 < linkhyrule5> ...
20:16 < linkhyrule5> why is the first result for "Tohsaka Tokiomi solo"
20:16 < Kel> (the pillow of DOOM is full of love)
20:16 < linkhyrule5> "Tohsaka Tokiomi in cat ears andtails?"
20:16 < kappabeta> pff
20:16 < Aestrix_> ...
20:16 < Aestrix_> The internet is a strange and wonderful place.
20:17 < Aestrix_> <3
20:17 < linkhyrule5> http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=856769
20:17 < kappabeta> aestrix: past-pm'd inkspot
20:17 < linkhyrule5> This one looks a little creepy to me
20:17 < linkhyrule5> but maybe I'll get lucky and other people will disagree?
20:17 < Kel> that face is less creepy than the previous one!
20:17 < Aestrix_> Agreed
20:17 < linkhyrule5> Also, Kaleido Tohasaka http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=976539
20:17 < kappabeta> he looks slightly worried and uncomfortable, but appears to have no urge whatsoever to drink my spinal fluid
20:17 < linkhyrule5> hahaha
20:18 < Kel> not exactly *happy* but not too creepy
20:18 < Aestrix_> xD
20:18 < linkhyrule5> see, I actually read that as /more/ creepy, so
20:18 < kappabeta> hm?
20:18 < linkhyrule5> Aestrix - what do you think of Gilgamesh theme?
20:18 < linkhyrule5> Oh, finally.
20:18 < linkhyrule5> How about this one?
20:18 < linkhyrule5> http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=933791
20:18 < linkhyrule5> This one seems goodish to me
20:19 < kappabeta> Cute!
20:19 < kappabeta> Totally free of awkwardness and spinal-fluid-related urges!
20:19 < linkhyrule5> hahahah
20:19 < linkhyrule5> yaaay
20:19 < linkhyrule5> Ooooh
20:19 < linkhyrule5> Question.
20:19 < Aestrix_> Yep, no spinal fluid there
20:19 < linkhyrule5> The spinal fluid one.
20:19 < kappabeta> XD
20:19 < kappabeta> what about it
20:19 < linkhyrule5> Is that a very creeepy, I am totally a predator spianl fluid look
20:20 < linkhyrule5> or can I repurpose it for
20:20 < linkhyrule5> "I am smiling because that is how I look when I am very, very angry.
20:20 < kappabeta> hmm, it's not angrysmile
20:20 < linkhyrule5> I am going to murder you now. Good bye."
20:20 < Aestrix_> No it's a spinal fluid sile
20:20 < Aestrix_> smile*
20:20 < linkhyrule5> Except he probably wouldn't actually kill you, but boy he'd be tempted in that state.
20:20 < linkhyrule5> Mmkay
20:20 < Aestrix_> It can't be salvaged
20:20 < linkhyrule5> I am looking for a "peaceful smile" kind of thing
20:20 < linkhyrule5> loool
20:20 < Aestrix_> Put the link away and flee
20:21 < linkhyrule5> hahah
20:21 < linkhyrule5> Oh, Eva, have an adorable Flandre theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibnnu_Q7gmo&list=FLp1P-P02lG1qrxQsiSLbjPg&index=2
20:21 < linkhyrule5> other people are also welcome to listen
20:21 < linkhyrule5> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibnnu_Q7gmo without the playlist
20:22 < kappabeta> http://imageproxy.jxs.cz/~nd06/jxs/cz~/678/146/d06179f915_90798173_o2.jpg this looks peaceful slight smile to me maybe
20:22 < Kel> link does not work for me?
20:23 < kappabeta> http://sa-yo.blog.cz/1301/tohsaka-tokiomi is on this page
20:23 < linkhyrule5> "Full resolution click here"
20:23 < linkhyrule5> ah kay
20:23 < kappabeta> third image
20:23 < kappabeta> http://static.zerochan.net/Tohsaka.Tokiomi.full.1063443.jpg this one looks very "bout to wreck some shit" but not in a smiley way
20:23 < Kel> yeah that is a peaceful smile!
20:23 < linkhyrule5> the one with the wine glass?
20:24 < kappabeta> what one wine glass?
20:24 < linkhyrule5> ...
20:24 < linkhyrule5> we might not be on the same page
20:24 < kappabeta> http://randomc.net/image/Fate%20Zero/Fate%20Zero%20-%2001%20-%20Large%2004.jpg same peaceful smile one
20:24 < Kel> the one where he's holding his hand
20:24 < Kel> 3 above the wineglass
20:24 < linkhyrule5> Anyway, I'm going to steal the circles of fire one for "generic casting"
20:26 < Kel> that letter to the editor, Aestrix
20:26 < Kel> <3
20:26 < Aestrix_> <3
20:26 < kappabeta> http://static.zerochan.net/Fate.zero.full.1099861.jpg nother slight peaceful smile
20:26 < Teceler> it is wonderful
20:26 < linkhyrule5> ahha
20:26 < linkhyrule5> yeah
20:26 < linkhyrule5> Six pages!
20:26 < Aestrix_> <3
20:26 < linkhyrule5> You know
20:26 < Aestrix_> She has a temper.
20:27 < linkhyrule5> I think I can use that last one
20:27 < Kel> Earlier that one was declared "SACRILEGE" though?
20:27 < Kel> that last one
20:27 < linkhyrule5> haha
20:27 < linkhyrule5> yeah
20:27 < kappabeta> sacrilege?
20:27 < linkhyrule5> There is a character named Sakura in the background
20:27 < linkhyrule5> I would quite happily put her at the far end of the Joker spectrum, barring Brilliance and the one with the dragon
20:27 < linkhyrule5> Her life is /that bad/.
20:27 < linkhyrule5> She is currently happy!
20:28 < linkhyrule5> That is why it is sacrilege.
20:28 < linkhyrule5> (we are being jokey and awful)
20:28 < kappabeta> XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
20:28 < Aestrix_> <3
20:28 < linkhyrule5> Yeaaaah her life ... really, really suciks.
20:29 < linkhyrule5> anyway, yeah, I think I can use that last one
20:30 < linkhyrule5> Pretend he's standing up and doing that head on fist pose
20:30 < linkhyrule5> ... no that's awkward.
20:33 < linkhyrule5> Hm.
20:33 < kappabeta> hm?
20:33 < linkhyrule5> I'd say it's betwen the one with the hand holding
20:33 < linkhyrule5> and the wine glass
20:33 < Kel> The hand holding one looks a little calmer and happier to me
20:33 -!- Eva has quit
20:33 < kappabeta> I think I like handholding better a little, but I dunno anything about either character, so
20:34 < linkhyrule5> Kel - he's not really supposed to look happy, though, that's going to be his "I smile in a creepy way when I am very, very mad"
20:34 < Kel> Oh okay,
20:34 < linkhyrule5> ... though it does kind of fit, still
20:35 < Kel> then the fire one looks a little more dangerous and less genuinely happy?
20:35 < kappabeta> http://static.zerochan.net/Tohsaka.Tokiomi.full.1274936.jpg this i think is a smile of a "gosh I sure am about to wreck your shit" variety
20:35 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, but it is also a little overdramatic
20:36 < linkhyrule5> oooh
20:36 < linkhyrule5> that one works
20:36 < linkhyrule5> so yeah
20:36 < Kel> yes that is a pretty dangerous calm smile
20:36 < linkhyrule5> one neutral-happy default
20:36 < linkhyrule5> one neutral-flat
20:36 < linkhyrule5> one WTF
20:36 < linkhyrule5> one oh my gods everything is wrong
20:37 < linkhyrule5> one I am Mad and it is Showing
20:37 < linkhyrule5> and one peaceful smile you are so screwed
20:37 < linkhyrule5> that is actually /more/ mad than the previous
20:38 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, character wise, ME is kind of like Tohsaka
20:38 < linkhyrule5> but a) more responsible with his children (at least while they were children, he's pretty hands off /now/ but they're like 300+ years old)
20:38 < Aestrix_> Except less terrible to his kids
20:38 < Aestrix_> I hope
20:38 < linkhyrule5> Definitely less terrible to his kids
20:38 < Aestrix_> Good.
20:38 < linkhyrule5> Possibly as hands-off, but definitely more eyes-on, if that makes sense
20:38 < Aestrix_> Yes xD
20:38 < linkhyrule5> "You can go run around and screw up, but I'll be watching in case thinigs go really wrong
20:38 < linkhyrule5> or if you go drown in rape worms >.>"
20:38 < linkhyrule5> *goddarn Zouken go die in a fire*
20:39 < kappabeta> what the hell are rape worms?!
20:39 < kappabeta> XD
20:39 < linkhyrule5> Worse than they sound.
20:39 < linkhyrule5> They live in your soul.
20:39 < linkhyrule5> And then do the obvious thing.
20:39 < kappabeta> ...
20:39 < linkhyrule5> They also give you lots of magic! Which is why they exist.
20:39 < Aestrix_> But they are definitely rape worms
20:39 < kappabeta> I don't think there is an obvious thing for a thing called a rape worm living in your SOUL to do. I mean, broadly yes, but like - how? What? Why???
20:39 < linkhyrule5> They also have a much less traumatic mode for people actually intended to be good magi
20:40 < linkhyrule5> but unfortunately, Zouken just wants a powerful tool, not a healthy adopted granddaughter.
20:40 < linkhyrule5> Partially, because Nasuverse magi are just kind of generally awful
20:40 < linkhyrule5> Partially, because the Makiri family have kind of creepy magecraft in general
20:41 < linkhyrule5> but the part where it actually crossed the line and became rape is allll Zouken, who is a crazy insane old magus who wants to live forever and is the kind of wants-to-live-forever that doesn't care about the people he burns doing it.
20:41 < linkhyrule5> (Zouken's body is actually /made/ out of these things, fyi. They don't /have/ to be traumatic. Zouken is just a terrible person.)
20:42 < linkhyrule5> Oh, Aestrix - if you watch UBW now, you will be prepared for Heaven's Feel movie when it comes out
20:42 < linkhyrule5> IN which there is a glorious, glorious moment
20:42 < linkhyrule5> where Sakura takes Zouken's soul in her hand
20:42 < kappabeta> ...I am getting some mental images here
20:42 < linkhyrule5> and goes *squish*
20:42 < kappabeta> XD
20:42 < kappabeta> pffff
20:42 < Aestrix_> Ooo.
20:42 < linkhyrule5> Yessss.
20:42 < linkhyrule5> I mean things are kind of on fire around that moment
20:42 < Aestrix_> I would like for his soul to go squish
20:42 < linkhyrule5> it's not all happy and rainbows, it's Nasuverse
20:42 < linkhyrule5> but there is definitely that moment.
20:42 < Aestrix_> Yeah
20:42 < linkhyrule5> There is definitely a moment there.
20:42 < Aestrix_> There are no happy and rainbows in that worls
20:42 < Aestrix_> world*
20:42 < linkhyrule5> haha
20:43 < linkhyrule5> Well, there's Avalon
20:43 < linkhyrule5> which is basically literally happy and rainbows
20:43 < linkhyrule5> but yeah, no, not in terms of events.
20:43 < linkhyrule5> Yeah, it turns out?
20:43 < linkhyrule5> Zouken had the bright idea of putting his soul in a worm that lives in Sakura' heart.
20:43 < Aestrix_> ...
20:43 < linkhyrule5> Unfortunately for him, Sakura just got a rather nice form of regenerative immortality.
20:43 < Aestrix_> Ha
20:43 < linkhyrule5> Squish.
20:45 < Aestrix_> Hooray!
20:45 < linkhyrule5> :D
20:45 < linkhyrule5> kappabeta - Broadly, magecraft in the Nasuverse is about channelinig something into your body and soul that is /not supposed to be there/.
20:46 < linkhyrule5> Rin - one of the characters, one of Tokiomi'sdaughters - describes it as kind of having foreign-limb syndrome in whatever you're using to cast it with
20:46 < linkhyrule5> "I want this limb off right now it is /wrong/"
20:46 < linkhyrule5> This is jsut base magecraft, mind, all magi put up with this.
20:46 < linkhyrule5> Matou magecraft, because it is creepy, etches Magic Circuits (they do what they sound like) into your soul with living, half-spiritual worms.
20:46 < linkhyrule5> This is /extra/ violatory.
20:47 < linkhyrule5> If you dont' care about the person you do it to, you can set it to the /extra extra/ awful mode!
20:47 < linkhyrule5> Hence, rape worms.
20:47 < linkhyrule5> That live in your soul.
20:47 < kappabeta> ahahaha
20:47 < linkhyrule5> Sakure does not have a happy life.
20:49 < kappabeta> Leaf-Inkspot PM past PM thread has concluded, Inkspot has expressed willingness to look at Lurker re: arcany ritual
20:49 < kappabeta> :D
20:49 < linkhyrule5> oh fun
20:49 < linkhyrule5> Say, why /doesn't/ Lurker have MP?
20:49 < linkhyrule5> Is it "Dungeon can't find her to give her MP"
20:49 < linkhyrule5> or is t actually "her life has never been in danger?"
20:49 < linkhyrule5> because, uh
20:50 < kappabeta> something something no not that
20:50 < linkhyrule5> given everything
20:50 < linkhyrule5> ah, kay
20:50 < kappabeta> it has to do with how dungeon integrated with carp
20:50 < Kel> I think there was a competing system it fit better
20:50 < linkhyrule5> ahh
20:50 < Kel> yeah
20:50 < kappabeta> and her never having done carp magic
20:50 < kappabeta> So Aestrix
20:50 < Aestrix_> Yes?
20:50 < Teceler> it's because Carp actually has a system to Dungeon to latch onto, yeah
20:50 < kappabeta> Miles is totally going to want to Miles away the problem with Lurker's ritual.
20:50 < Aestrix_> Pff
20:50 < kappabeta> he is going to Miles at it so much.
20:51 < kappabeta> do we wanna let him
20:51 < kappabeta> (I wanna let him)
20:51 < Aestrix_> xD
20:51 < Aestrix_> I will want to see how he Mileses at it before I judge either way.
20:51 < kappabeta> i mean, what do you mean
20:52 < Aestrix_> I want to see his approach to the thing!
20:52 < Aestrix_> I do not want to hand him this because he is a Miles and therefore I love him
20:52 < kappabeta> his approach to the thing depends on the resources available
20:52 < Aestrix_> If he has a valid way that can solve Lurker's ritual that I think would work, then I'd let him have it
20:53 < kappabeta> and like
20:53 < linkhyrule5> Can I help with the Milesing?
20:53 * linkhyrule5 likes solving problems
20:53 < kappabeta> the question isn't, "do you want to descend from the sky in a beam of light and bop him gently with a magic wand and say 'Here is your solution!'"
20:53 * linkhyrule5 is aware that this is someone else's problem
20:54 < kappabeta> hell yes you can help
20:54 < linkhyrule5> so what's the problem?
20:54 < Aestrix_> xD
20:54 < linkhyrule5> (on a side note, if the part of the problem is "I don't know" then when Inavet shows up in a few days ME will throw scries at the problem until he finds out :P )
20:54 < kappabeta> the question is, "Miles wants to solve a problem. *I* am not as smart as Miles, and the parameters of the problem partly depend on our decisions as authors. Do we want to make it so that there *is* a solution or *isn't* one?"
20:55 < linkhyrule5> The way I usually do that is, I go for consistency
20:55 < kappabeta> Like if Miles's ability to solve problems depended on my ability to solve them for him, I couldn't play him
20:55 < linkhyrule5> but then, I'm the maniac who /actually wrote down my entire magic system/, so.
20:55 < Aestrix_> I think I am bad at planning out this sort of thing for other people's characters
20:55 < kappabeta> link you are a delight <3
20:55 < linkhyrule5> :D
20:55 < Aestrix_> <3
20:55 < linkhyrule5> Like that's actually why I did it, so I would just /know/ whether or not a character could do it
20:55 < linkhyrule5> because, well, the system is /right there/.
20:55 < Aestrix_> Ah, okay
20:56 < Teceler> except then you keep having to improvise :P
20:56 < linkhyrule5> hahah
20:56 < linkhyrule5> ^ yeah this is early days yet
20:56 < linkhyrule5> at some point in the next few years I'll have this really nailed down
20:56 < Aestrix_> Pff
20:56 < linkhyrule5> into something that can be put into an RPG and everyone wil lagree with
20:56 < linkhyrule5> I've already been working on this for three years or so
20:56 < kappabeta> The parameters of the problem are: Lurker has a thing that makes her invisible to magic. She can turn it off but it takes effort. The arcany ritual requires total concentration and also magic noticing you. She can't accomplish both those things simultaneously without *some* kind of help.
20:57 < linkhyrule5> this is jsut the first time it's gone anywhere outside my head and my circle of friends
20:57 < linkhyrule5> Hmmm.
20:57 < linkhyrule5> Interesting.
20:57 < Aestrix_> I mean if they figure out a way to keep her invisible to magic thing off then I'll give it to him.
20:57 < Aestrix_> But that's one's up to Adelene
20:58 < linkhyrule5> Well, Orz can teach her unparallelled parallel processing, but uh, I don't think learning from Orz is a good first step
20:58 <~sonatagreen> She could summon a daeva, die, have Leaf or someone retrieve her by Gate?
20:58 < linkhyrule5> as adorzable as it is :P
20:58 < kappabeta> yeah, that's not the only angle he's going to be pursuing, though
20:58 < kappabeta> I don't think she's going to be keen to die as part of this process XD
20:58 <~sonatagreen> since killing the target breaks a spell
20:58 < kappabeta> although daeva lurker would be pretty great
20:59 < linkhyrule5> ...
20:59 < linkhyrule5> Hmm.
20:59 <~sonatagreen> ...she could practice parlor tricks?
20:59 < linkhyrule5> How... thoroguh is thsi spell?
20:59 < linkhyrule5> Like, I'm imagining something where you actually put the relevant magic things in her bloodstream, or something.
20:59 <~sonatagreen> Anything that can tell the difference between reality and illusion thinks that she's an illusion, is my understanding.
21:00 < linkhyrule5> Mm.
21:00 < linkhyrule5> Probably won't do it then.
21:00 < kappabeta> I think "get Lurker full arcany" is Miles's goal in attacking this problem, rather than "get Lurker any non-QDS magic at all" - like, he wants her to get any non-QDS magic at all, but he ALSO wants her to get the most useful and complete magic she possibly can
21:00 < kappabeta> because like
21:00 < kappabeta> he's miles
21:00 < Aestrix_> Putting the relevant magic in her bloodstream's not a thing that arcany can do xD
21:01 < linkhyrule5> phoo
21:01 < kappabeta> hahahahahahaha
21:01 < linkhyrule5> Hm.
21:01 < linkhyrule5> Miles can notice her, and Miles can make magic notice her.
21:01 < Aestrix_> The ritual is all about giving magic an idea of wtf you are, who you are, etc.
21:01 < Aestrix_> Actually, no.
21:01 < linkhyrule5> Can Miles make magic notice her in a way that actually notices her identity?
21:01 < linkhyrule5> Darn.
21:01 < Aestrix_> The thing you're talking about is an actual thing that happens
21:02 < kappabeta> what thing who's talking about?
21:02 < Aestrix_> It is what's known as salvaging the ritual
21:02 < Aestrix_> Like, okay, the BEST PERSON, hands down, to get the magic to notice you... Is you.
21:02 < Aestrix_> No contest, ever.
21:02 < Aestrix_> You are the best person to represent yourself.
21:03 < Aestrix_> Usually, during rituals, a more senior arcanist is there monitoring the ritual
21:03 < Aestrix_> Their job is to A: optimize the ritual for the ritual-doer, and B: salvage things if the person fails to represent themselves/chokes during the ritual/causes ruination in some way.
21:04 < linkhyrule5> Hmm...
21:04 < Aestrix_> Having another person interfere in the ritual about representing yourself is a really great way to cripple yourself
21:04 < linkhyrule5> So what you'd need, in that route, is something like an "empty/soulless arcanist"
21:04 < Aestrix_> ... Yes, basically.
21:04 < linkhyrule5> A Szoreny-shard that will just reflect you.
21:04 < kappabeta> a what?
21:04 <~sonatagreen> She could do the ritual wi
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