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Post by Meletiti Entelecheiai on May 18, 2015 5:12:11 GMT
Totally a tangent but now I'm wondering how this would interact with Lurking's invisibility-to-magic-things. Oh, sorry, I didn't notice. Um. That is really interesting. There's a subtlety here : The Entelechy either plays very nicely or not at all with other worlds, depending on how you look at it. It doesn't exist to other worlds and others don't exist to it; "nonexistence" is something that can be modified by Entelechy magic but on the scale of a universe would be very, very expensive. So by default, Lurking would be "invisible" anyway, to the point that she could literally be standing in the middle of, I dunno, the galactic black hole or something while standing in her living room in her home world, and not even notice anything strange.
That being said, if you are willing to pay the ludicrous mana cost, you can import creatures and spells from one algebra to another. If this was done... I suspect that a dragon and large quantities of Entelechy magic would be completely unable to notice Lurking's presence under default conditions! It wouldn't always work, because some dragons do have actual, perceive-light eyes and some spells just look for gravitational distortions corresponding to the presence of matter and so on, but a lot of "is there something there?" spells would end up in a mana run-off against Lurking's effect (and therefore fail , because it's absolute (?) according to her own world's mechanics and so her spell is backed by an entire universe.)
It could be a cool works-once trick we can pull out for a plot, I think!
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Post by lurkingkobold on May 18, 2015 5:32:54 GMT
Oh, sorry, I didn't notice. Um. That is really interesting. There's a subtlety here : The Entelechy either plays very nicely or not at all with other worlds, depending on how you look at it. It doesn't exist to other worlds and others don't exist to it; "nonexistence" is something that can be modified by Entelechy magic but on the scale of a universe would be very, very expensive. So by default, Lurking would be "invisible" anyway, to the point that she could literally be standing in the middle of, I dunno, the galactic black hole or something while standing in her living room in her home world, and not even notice anything strange.
That being said, if you are willing to pay the ludicrous mana cost, you can import creatures and spells from one algebra to another. If this was done... I suspect that a dragon and large quantities of Entelechy magic would be completely unable to notice Lurking's presence under default conditions! It wouldn't always work, because some dragons do have actual, perceive-light eyes and some spells just look for gravitational distortions corresponding to the presence of matter and so on, but a lot of "is there something there?" spells would end up in a mana run-off against Lurking's effect (and therefore fail , because it's absolute (?) according to her own world's mechanics and so her spell is backed by an entire universe.)
It could be a cool works-once trick we can pull out for a plot, I think!
Her invisibility-to-magic would be pretty useless to her if it didn't cover nonvisual and secondary effects; if it works at all it'll work on gravity detection and stuff. Basically any spell that would be tricked by an illusion (of the relevant sort, e.g. an illusory weight for gravity) will not be tricked by her, and vice versa - her local magical items are never tricked by illusions so this works perfectly in the context in which it was designed. A spell that was smart enough to notice that something weird was going on and able to choose to believe in an apparently-illusory thing would trump her on that axis; a dragon might be able to but I bet it'd take them a while to figure out that they should. (Living things where she's from default to believing in illusions and will generally have a very hard time disbelieving in her, not that they'd have any reason to want to.) She's kind of booked for plot for the next little while but we can definitely keep this in mind for later. :D
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Post by Meletiti Entelecheiai on May 18, 2015 5:58:14 GMT
Her invisibility-to-magic would be pretty useless to her if it didn't cover nonvisual and secondary effects; if it works at all it'll work on gravity detection and stuff. Basically any spell that would be tricked by an illusion (of the relevant sort, e.g. an illusory weight for gravity) will not be tricked by her, and vice versa - her local magical items are never tricked by illusions so this works perfectly in the context in which it was designed. A spell that was smart enough to notice that something weird was going on and able to choose to believe in an apparently-illusory thing would trump her on that axis; a dragon might be able to but I bet it'd take them a while to figure out that they should. (Living things where she's from default to believing in illusions and will generally have a very hard time disbelieving in her, not that they'd have any reason to want to.) She's kind of booked for plot for the next little while but we can definitely keep this in mind for later. Oh, I see, it's a second-order type spell. There are spells that look for things, illusions that falsify those things; there are spells that check for illusions first, and then this is a spell that pretends to be an illusion. That's clever. Dragons tend to be very intelligent, so if she just wanders into something important they won't be fooled, but if there exists some plausible reason for the illusion being cast - like, say, someone else sneaking in who might be trying to distract it - I bet it'd work. In that case, I probably have it backwards: things that try to look for actual consequences of her existence won't find her, but things that just flat out poll the Akashic Records/Universal Truth for "is there something here, yes or no" will find her? Ironically, it seems like she'd be best at getting into places guarded by clever people and less so at beating simpler wards (or, yannow, a wall.)
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Post by Daniel H on May 18, 2015 6:04:11 GMT
A wall is in fact one of the simplest kinds of wards.
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Post by lurkingkobold on May 18, 2015 6:16:39 GMT
Her invisibility-to-magic would be pretty useless to her if it didn't cover nonvisual and secondary effects; if it works at all it'll work on gravity detection and stuff. Basically any spell that would be tricked by an illusion (of the relevant sort, e.g. an illusory weight for gravity) will not be tricked by her, and vice versa - her local magical items are never tricked by illusions so this works perfectly in the context in which it was designed. A spell that was smart enough to notice that something weird was going on and able to choose to believe in an apparently-illusory thing would trump her on that axis; a dragon might be able to but I bet it'd take them a while to figure out that they should. (Living things where she's from default to believing in illusions and will generally have a very hard time disbelieving in her, not that they'd have any reason to want to.) She's kind of booked for plot for the next little while but we can definitely keep this in mind for later. :D Oh, I see, it's a second-order type spell. There are spells that look for things, illusions that falsify those things; there are spells that check for illusions first, and then this is a spell that pretends to be an illusion. That's clever. Dragons tend to be very intelligent, so if she just wanders into something important they won't be fooled, but if there exists some plausible reason for the illusion being cast - like, say, someone else sneaking in who might be trying to distract it - I bet it'd work. In that case, I probably have it backwards: things that try to look for actual consequences of her existence won't find her, but things that just flat out poll the Akashic Records/Universal Truth for "is there something here, yes or no" will find her? Ironically, it seems like she'd be best at getting into places guarded by clever people and less so at beating simpler wards (or, yannow, a wall.) Polling the Universal Truth will likely work - I don't know the details of that, but this spell isn't super-advanced, it just does the equivalent of tagging the effects she has on the world (light, sound, gravity, etc) with a [this is an illusion] xml tag. In not too too many weeks she's also going to have the ability to cast Carp!invisibility spells, which will further complicate this. }:3 Walls and always-on wards will still work regardless, though, yeah. (Well, until she picks up other tricks besides these two.) Former doesn't interact with this at all and latter is an area effect, Carp magic doesn't have much to say about them.
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andygal
Poster
Posts: 17
Pronoun: she
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Post by andygal on Jun 2, 2015 21:13:07 GMT
I see no reason why the Sime-Gen universe (which needs a pithy in character name) should not feed into the keeper's domain.
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Suchi
Poster
Posts: 26
World: Yarth
Pronoun: She
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Post by Suchi on Jun 4, 2015 17:54:13 GMT
Yarth can definitely feed into the keeper's domain, though it will probably irritate her because people and constructs get partially but not fully returned from the dead all the time.
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the keeper
Poster
Posts: 97
World: the kept
Pronoun: she
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Post by the keeper on Jun 4, 2015 18:02:14 GMT
She will declare Yarth untidy and grumpily wait for them all to be done resurrecting each other before she starts pulling backups.
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Post by curiousdiscoverer on Jun 11, 2015 4:51:47 GMT
Mine [needs a name] setting has reincarnation, you live a set number of times, is that too untidy for the Keeper?
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Kappa
Backstage
Posts: 30
World: IRL
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Post by Kappa on Jun 11, 2015 12:46:38 GMT
Nah, she can deal with that. A set number of times is tidy enough.
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andygal
Poster
Posts: 17
Pronoun: she
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Post by andygal on Jul 7, 2015 1:47:23 GMT
the keeper can have Singer's universe. It is nice and tidy on her end at the moment. Resurrection is technically possible but takes amounts of effort that are prohibitive for very nearly everyone, and very expensive for the rest.
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Rukhura
Poster
Posts: 42
Pronoun: he
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Post by Rukhura on Jul 7, 2015 22:11:44 GMT
No problems with her having access to Shift.
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Post by anthusiasm on Jul 13, 2015 1:17:56 GMT
I think the Keeper probably does not have access to Bree's as-yet-unnamed world because there is an afterlife already.
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Post by Leaf on Jul 13, 2015 1:23:49 GMT
The keeper's access isn't like that; unlike in Effulgence, it doesn't matter to her whether or not there is an afterlife already there. (You can still have her not find/access the thing if you want, but there being an afterlife already won't be the IC reason.)
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Post by anthusiasm on Jul 13, 2015 18:12:08 GMT
Oh, yeah, I probably should've remembered that from when I was on here before. Access away!
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