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Post by Archangel on May 17, 2015 3:57:34 GMT
Archangel isn't going to say much differentiating Keter from the public version of Daevinity or the relevant time period of Nexus; most of the differences would be classified. Does that just mean the keeper can't connect whatever Weird Stuff happens to that poster?
A complaint about 370 would probably be interesting. To me, at least. How would she handle it? If she permanently neutralizes whatever's on the other end of the Gates, the key itself would stop being dangerous and her complaint could come complete with a no-longer-fatal description. Which Archangel wouldn't see, because even if Esthfora lets the information through, paranoia. A permanent fix to 370 might motivate the Foundation to ask the forum for help with other world-destroying SCPs. I've been debating doing that for a while, anyway.
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Post by Daniel H on May 17, 2015 3:57:34 GMT
How recognizable and vague would the terms be? Would she know to keep them vague enough, or would Esthfora need to step in?
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Post by Botanical Engineer on May 17, 2015 3:58:55 GMT
I also like the idea! There's a thread for such a complaint and everything!
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Post by Leaf on May 17, 2015 4:04:12 GMT
Deciding how exactly the keeper handles 370 would probably involve deciding on some details about what 370 is. It seems to be some sort of evil god. If it came into her domain and tried to fuck with her, she could shut it down permanently and completely. She would be really annoyed about it and might go complain in the Misfortunes and Mistakes thread. If the danger was still active, she would know what level of description was vague enough and would probably go a few steps vaguer - like, "I have encountered an object which conveys a hazard to anyone who knows its shape and composition. This was very irritating." If she had shut it down, she might not be all that much more precise about it initially but could be convinced to offer more details if, say, Archangel's people wanted to confirm. I think "keeper shuts down 370, bitches about it on forum" sounds like an excellent plotline.
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Post by Meletiti Entelecheiai on May 17, 2015 6:00:13 GMT
The Entelechy is... a very strange world. I see no reason the keeper could not access it, but it may introduce unfortunate complications of two forms, and it is certainly possible to justify her ignorance of it within its rules. Both take the form of extremely nonstandard lifeforms.
The first are merely nonstandard: such things as sapient organizations that compute based on the evolution of social links within its domain, or self-progagating spells ("dragons". Both are only problematic in that resurrecting them is difficult, the former because it would involve mass mind control and the latter because doing so requires importing the magic system, which would require ludicrous amounts of mana however you chose to do it. (It would not be impossible for the keeper, but only if she were willing to repeatedly recreate astronomical objects - varying in scale from comets to galaxies, depending on the scale of the enaction - and then ritually sacrifice them on a regular basis.)
The second are actively dangerous. The one I'm thinking of in particular is a dragon who lives in her name (she is, in fact, an Exalted reference). Dragons are absurdly, elder god level powerful, and knowing her name is equivalent to letting her into your mind. She was eventually killed by magically naming every individual elemental particle in a largeish planet with her name, and then retconning her out of existence while she was distracted. The dragon is meaningfully dead, in that her mind is no longer connected to her word-body, but depending on how the keeper's powers works this may not matter. She is also not the only such entity, though most are not quite so powerful and do not have quite such a command of magic.
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Post by Leaf on May 17, 2015 11:52:08 GMT
If the world contains a lot of hard-to-resurrect things like sapient organizations and heavily sacrifice-dependent spells, then whenever the keeper takes notice of it she's likely to file it away as something troublesome she'll think about later, where "later" may be anything from a few centuries to several million years.
If she manages to glimpse that dragon's name while she's at it, and the dragon pops up to try to mess with her, she will deal with the problem somehow and then complain about it.
I might get around to having her complain about 370 today if nobody stops me.
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Post by Meletiti Entelecheiai on May 17, 2015 13:37:46 GMT
Mm. How would she deal with her? If there exists a conceptual link between her mind and her word-body - if her existence can be theoretically inferred from any piece of information - she's still alive, and while after being slapped down once she wouldn't try again, she is perfectly capable of being subtle and corrupting, and while she is not omnicidally malevolent she does generally disapprove of any cosmology that does not have her at the top. (This is what got her killed the first time.) There exists a meaningful sense in which she never existed in the first place, and is simply a potential consequence of the magic system in general - that's the level of magic it took to deal with her originally.
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Post by Leaf on May 17, 2015 19:55:32 GMT
I'm not at all sure how she might deal with her, because I don't yet understand how the magic would interact - on the one hand you said importing dragons would require ritually sacrificing galaxies, and on the other hand you get this one for free merely by noticing she ever existed?
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MagicPhD
Poster
Posts: 95
World: Fractal
Pronoun: he
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Post by MagicPhD on May 18, 2015 0:30:21 GMT
keeper can look at my world (Fractal?) all she wants. If she instantiates a mage, they will not have magic unless she brings our physics with her or creates another workaround. Some may go insane without magic, though it would be less than people who caused themselves to go insane with mind-magic in universe.
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Thorn
Poster
Posts: 44
World: Eclipse
Pronoun: she/her/hers
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Post by Thorn on May 18, 2015 1:16:10 GMT
Very belatedly (things have been somewhat crazy on this end), I see no major problems with the keeper having access to Eclipse. She may not be particularly happy about that virus it's flooded with, though.
I would probably define 'no-take-backs dead' for that setting's purposes as destruction of cortical stack and all backups, which, conveniently, she should actually be able to determine, but I have no idea how she would handle forks.
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Post by Leaf on May 18, 2015 1:20:29 GMT
If forks are a common element of Eclipse, she will probably file Eclipse under "untidy and annoying, to deal with later" for several million years. Especially since it also has that virus.
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Post by Meletiti Entelecheiai on May 18, 2015 1:34:43 GMT
I'm not at all sure how she might deal with her, because I don't yet understand how the magic would interact - on the one hand you said importing dragons would require ritually sacrificing galaxies, and on the other hand you get this one for free merely by noticing she ever existed? Blargh. Sorry, misclassified her. ("Dragon" means something in particular; it's the wrong taxonomy for her. She's more like a least god of a particular word.) Details will go into the metaphysics post, but - basically, spells can interact, spells can create other spells, small changes to a spell result in small changes in the result, so spells can evolve. Dragons are sapient spells that usually do not have a physical body; usually their spiritual organs contain localized components, so that they find it convenient to be in a particular place, but certain species of dragon have no real position. If you want to import a dragon, you have to import the magic system, or their spell-bodies don't work, unless you want to upload their minds into a more traditional body. She's actually a god, that is, a mind and soul that has been magically attached to something that shouldn't be able to support a body - like a concept, or a word. The way Entelechy works, the fact that "the keeper knows that this mind is associated with this word" is itself enough for her to start existing in her original universe, from which she can do the same things ME is doing to reach across worlds. This isn't usually a problem, because the retcon was very thorough and at this point any native effect that could return "this god ever existed" could also return any other similar response at random, because it just isn't true relative to Entelechy anymore. The keeper's overriding that, but that also means that she is certain that "this mind is linked with this word"... ... Hm. Actually, now that I think more about it, that should go under the same category as anything else from another algebra, that is, Entelechy doesn't care because the effect doesn't follow its rules. Okay, nevermind - if the keeper ever instatiates the magic system it will be relevant, or if she ever tells ME about any such hazards, but otherwise it should be safe.
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Thorn
Poster
Posts: 44
World: Eclipse
Pronoun: she/her/hers
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Post by Thorn on May 18, 2015 1:59:31 GMT
I mean, even if you discount beta and delta forks from being considered minds because of their neural pruning, there are a lot of alpha forks and technically-alpha forks running around out there, yes. (One of the major criminal factions is composed of forks of the same person, and while that's an extreme case -- long term forking is generally, though not universally, viewed with some degree of distaste -- it is a major setting element)
(If she comes across it and wants to complain, though (the exsurgent virus is probably fairly unique, multiversally), Thorn would apparently be delighted that her world is backed up somewhere that can deal with the virus, but also deeply concerned about the custodian (not for any particular reason, she's just paranoid).)
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Post by lurkingkobold on May 18, 2015 5:02:59 GMT
Dragons are sapient spells that usually do not have a physical body Totally a tangent but now I'm wondering how this would interact with Lurking's invisibility-to-magic-things.
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Post by Daniel H on May 18, 2015 5:10:00 GMT
Do most forks eventually re-merge, then?
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