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Post by Ahrotahn on Sept 22, 2015 19:13:58 GMT
I have extremely mixed feelings about my national government.
On the one hand, things are much better under them than things tended to be historically, and any attempt to overthrow them in favor of anarchy seems likely to result in a quasi-feudalistic state of gang warfare. On the other hand, the Cavern seems to be doing just fine without them, and considering their historical military eagerness, I really don't trust them with Linking technology.
The current situation seems fundamentally unstable. The Surface government doesn't know about the Cavern yet, but it seems untenable to keep it from them forever. I'm looking for a third option, a solution that will prevent the bad things that the government is good at preventing, while also preventing the bad things that the government tends to cause.
If anyone has, or knows of, a non-terrible system of government or government-alternative, I'd like to hear about it.
People have been coming to the Cavern for about ten years and the government hasn't noticed us yet, so this probably isn't urgent on a scale of months, but I imagine these things take time.
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Post by Queen Hot on Sept 23, 2015 1:49:11 GMT
Do you require a queen?
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Branch
Poster
Posts: 17
World: Nexus
Pronoun: she
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Post by Branch on Sept 23, 2015 13:53:21 GMT
The various systems of government in my world each manage to muddle along just fine on their own planets, but I wouldn't recommend any of them in particular without knowing more about the exact situation I was recommending them for.
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Post by Ahrotahn on Sept 23, 2015 17:15:34 GMT
Queen Hot, I'm not sure. I kind of feel like concentrating power in a small number of people is the sort of thing we need less of. What sort of policies would you institute, and how would you defend your claim against a major nuclear power? Branch, I'm on Earth, in the United States, in 2015 AD/CE. The current president is Barack Obama, and we're dealing with a recession in the wake of the subprime mortgage crisis. Does this match your historical records?
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Branch
Poster
Posts: 17
World: Nexus
Pronoun: she
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Post by Branch on Sept 23, 2015 18:11:01 GMT
Yes. But it doesn't leave me with any clear ideas for feasible alternatives, I'm afraid. I could look for a political historian with strong opinions about how things ought to have been done differently back then, but it seems to me that their chances of having anything useful to say to you are not necessarily all that high.
Besides which, I'm still unclear on what exactly you are looking for. Do you want to change your country's system of governance, or institute a new one in the Cavern, or both, or are you just generally looking for inspiration without a specific goal in mind...?
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Post by equalest on Sept 23, 2015 23:14:22 GMT
Queen Hot, I'm not sure. I kind of feel like concentrating power in a small number of people is the sort of thing we need less of. Indeed.
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Post by Queen Hot on Sept 24, 2015 0:38:12 GMT
Queen Hot, I'm not sure. I kind of feel like concentrating power in a small number of people is the sort of thing we need less of. What sort of policies would you institute, and how would you defend your claim against a major nuclear power? For a nation of people-humans, yes? I understand a rule against eating people would be a popular start. Violators will be edited to stop doing that. Nuclear powers are large, mighty nations? I'm sure I wouldn't need to do anything so gauche as to mind-spike their heads of state.
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Post by Ahrotahn on Sept 24, 2015 1:46:19 GMT
I'm still unclear on what exactly you are looking for. Do you want to change your country's system of governance, or institute a new one in the Cavern, or both, or are you just generally looking for inspiration without a specific goal in mind...? The existing Surface government is... perhaps not ideal, but that situation is at least relatively stable, so I don't consider replacing them to be a priority. My main concern is that if they gained access to Linking technology, or to trade with the OTC, then the result would be a terrifying oppressive dystopia. The current shape of national and global politics tends to leave the impression that they are restrained from despotic tyranny only by an inability to successfully get away with it, and I would like to ensure the continuance of that inability in the face of interworld communication, travel, and trade. Queen Hot, I'm not sure. I kind of feel like concentrating power in a small number of people is the sort of thing we need less of. What sort of policies would you institute, and how would you defend your claim against a major nuclear power? For a nation of people-humans, yes? I understand a rule against eating people would be a popular start. Violators will be edited to stop doing that. Nuclear powers are large, mighty nations? I'm sure I wouldn't need to do anything so gauche as to mind-spike their heads of state. A nation of people-humans, yes. We've already successfully abolished cannibalism, so that wouldn't really differentiate you from the alternatives. What do you mean by editing? Nuclear powers are nations that have nuclear weapons, which are very powerful explosive devices capable of destroying entire cities at intercontinental range. Attacking a head of state individually would not prevent the weapons from being used, because the actual deployment of weapons is performed by mid-level soldiers, and the military presumably has contingency plans in place for if the head of state is assassinated. The possibility of such an assassination might motivate a pre-emptive attack, but I would expect the doctrine of mutually assured destruction to apply in this case. If "editing" means that you can surreptitiously change an enemy head of state's personality, then that might work, but if they figure out that you're doing it, or even suspect that you might be capable of it, then I would guess that that would significantly increase the risk of a pre-emptive nuclear strike.
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Branch
Poster
Posts: 17
World: Nexus
Pronoun: she
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Post by Branch on Sept 24, 2015 13:35:07 GMT
If you think putting the Cavern under the protection of a different government entirely would help, I can put you in touch with someone who's able to make that sort of negotiation on behalf of a local possibility, but since the person I'm thinking of doesn't have a forum account I would have to arrange a visit in person. And I predict that they won't be at all interested in replacing your Surface government unless your Surface government is much, much worse than my historical records suggest.
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Post by Ahrotahn on Sept 24, 2015 17:51:33 GMT
The protection of a different government might be a good idea, if that other government has a track record that suggests they can be trusted to remain moral and ethical when given significant magical/technological advantages.
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Branch
Poster
Posts: 17
World: Nexus
Pronoun: she
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Post by Branch on Sept 24, 2015 19:31:31 GMT
That's certainly the sort of thing you could discuss with a representative.
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Post by Ahrotahn on Sept 24, 2015 19:42:15 GMT
Mm. Possibly. I'm not sure a representative of a government would be the best source for an appraisal of the trustworthiness of that same government.
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Branch
Poster
Posts: 17
World: Nexus
Pronoun: she
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Post by Branch on Sept 24, 2015 20:48:59 GMT
I can recommend other sources of information as well, but I would prefer to do so privately.
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