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Post by Leaf on May 13, 2015 0:58:21 GMT
Aha. Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Thanks, Daniel.
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Post by Archangel on May 13, 2015 1:21:10 GMT
What are the rules on wish? It creates objects, but is that objects that currently exist? Can exist? Can be made to exist using Dungeon magic? The NetHack version is limited to a finite list of objects and wishing for a named artifact doesn't work if there are too many already, but the D&D version doesn't have those restrictions.
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 13, 2015 2:25:53 GMT
My main reservation to getting huge XP from a career is that eventually you get used to it. Driving on the highway is deadly if you screw up, but it doesn't elicit the right kind of emotional response. Military service in a combat zone definitely counts. The key thing is that it's the kind of thing where you don't come out the same. Steel forged in fire.
Wish can only make things that could in principle have been made the long way around. It's a shortcut.
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Post by Daniel H on May 13, 2015 2:29:32 GMT
Does that mean you need scribe magic to wish for a spellbook, or just that you can wish for a spellbook as long as in principal you could learn or invent scribe magic?
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Post by Daniel H on May 13, 2015 2:30:02 GMT
I suppose that question applies to the spell you actually want to write, too.
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 13, 2015 2:33:42 GMT
You can wish for a spellbook because it is generally possible for people to make spellbooks without wish, regardless of whether you personally can or could become able to.
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Post by Archangel on May 13, 2015 2:37:19 GMT
Pretty sure the answer's neither; as long as there is such a thing as scribe magic then spellbooks can be wished for regardless of whether you personally could make one. At least, that's my guess based on way too much NetHack. EDIT: Hooray for way too much NetHack. If it's a thing has been made before, so it's presumably possible to make but nobody knows how or even what it's made of, can they wish for that? (You can imagine Foundation people making this face from behind their sunglasses.)
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Post by Leaf on May 13, 2015 2:39:14 GMT
I see what you mean about the career thing. I think I'm sticking by the revised total for Cordelia's XP, though, because I think Betan Astronomical Survey is on a level with serious dungeon-adventuring in terms of "legitimately harrowing and difficult things to do with your life". But it makes me feel better about how low Aral's total is in comparison, because he saw relatively little active combat in comparison to how many times Cordelia blind-jumped an unmapped wormhole.
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Post by Daniel H on May 13, 2015 2:40:12 GMT
How does wish interact with information? If it is possible to obtain information, but nobody has, can wish shortcut that (such as by writing a textbook about the interactions of Dungeon magic and daeva)?
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Post by Leaf on May 13, 2015 3:03:11 GMT
So Cordelia's going to wish up a copy of every book in the catalogue that they don't otherwise own, unlisted spells included (they can figure out scribe magic exists, right?), and she and Miles are going to read magic all of them. I am not fully clear on what information they will have after this, exactly - I gather that read magic lets you know everything you'd know if you could cast a spell, without giving you the capacity to cast it? But I'm not familiar with all the listed spells. Maybe tomorrow I'll try prodding those links to D&D spell descriptions.
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 13, 2015 3:05:19 GMT
Archangel: I'm going to rule that you have to have at least a very broad idea of either how it's made or where such information might be found. For example, to make a sword, you could use "heat metal in a forge and shape it", or "ask a blacksmith". Also, consider that the presumption of makeability might hold true for fewer SCPs than one might hope. You could almost certainly wish for some SCP-500 (edit: though the gp cost might be arbitrarily large), but not for another SCP-011 (edit: because it's a unique individual). Wish will only make things that it classifies as "objects" rather than "creatures", but there is such a thing as intelligent objects. It won't make nonmaterial phenomena like Fred. Daniel: wish mostly doesn't do the informational heavy lifting. It probably has broadly similar limits to demon magic in that respect.
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Post by Archangel on May 13, 2015 3:05:44 GMT
Can minor and major planar ally do inter-world travel on their own? The spell description talks about performing a task, and we know that includes swapping objects between people who know each other only through the forum. It sounds like it should also be able to transport the forumgoers themselves, but that might make travel too easy to be allowed here. ( Plane shift requires the tuning fork thing, and gate said it was like plane shift except where noted, but the planar ally spells had no focus requirement.) Any character with enough Dungeon magic would probably know this already, but I don't.
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 13, 2015 3:34:37 GMT
They know scribe magic exists, it's mentioned in the textbook.
You're right about what information you get from read magic; you get magical knowledge of what the spell does, like an interactive spell description that you can poke to ask about edge cases. Subjectively it feels like the kind of not-entirely-conscious understanding of something that normally comes from experience: you already had the relevant knowledge, but you might not have realized that you knew, or processed the implications, until it occurred to you to ask. ("What about X?" -- "Ooh, yeah, that's a good point." That sort of thing.)
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Post by Daniel H on May 13, 2015 3:41:34 GMT
Archangel, I think the planar ally spells are completely unrelated to the D&D versions. I’m also pretty sure that “like plane shift except where noted” does not include material costs, foci, etc.
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Post by Mother Starlight on May 13, 2015 3:44:17 GMT
minor and major planar ally don't correspond directly to any of the D&D spells, which is why I called them minor/major rather than lesser/greater. They don't enable travel; the traded things can be either carried objects or services that can be completed within the spell duration (6 seconds or 1 hour). You could ask for (or offer) a service of "cast plane shift to X destination", but that wouldn't create the ability to cast the spell any more than asking for zorkmids creates gold out of thin air.
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