Singer
Poster
Posts: 34
Pronoun: She
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AGIs
Jul 16, 2015 4:44:51 GMT
Post by Singer on Jul 16, 2015 4:44:51 GMT
...People created sapient AIs and let them onto a network? Really? There's a reason why sapient AIs are illegal in most countries.
Is that what happened to the planet?
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AGIs
Jul 16, 2015 4:51:22 GMT
Post by lurkingkobold on Jul 16, 2015 4:51:22 GMT
Singer, I don't know what it is you think you know, but you need to stop and make sure you're not assuming that things are the same in other places as they are on your world. I made that mistake myself, recently, and really hurt someone with it and came very close to hurting someone else; I don't want you to do the same thing.
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Tyche
Poster
Posts: 27
World: Eclipse
Pronoun: ze/zim/zir
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AGIs
Jul 16, 2015 4:54:12 GMT
Post by Tyche on Jul 16, 2015 4:54:12 GMT
lurkingkobold: I sort of do have a body, but it isn't one how people usually think of them, which is probably why the translation is working the way it is. I ... Singer: Oh, joy, more places where a form of sapient life is considered by definition nonpersons. What does yours do to them? What happened on Earth had very little to do with the TITANs being artificial intelligences, and a great deal more to do with them having a lot of power and getting hit with the virus very early on. ...Also with all the wars that sprang up as soon as someone lit a spark near them.
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AGIs
Jul 16, 2015 5:01:53 GMT
Post by Mother Starlight on Jul 16, 2015 5:01:53 GMT
...People created sapient AIs and let them onto a network? Really? There's a reason why sapient AIs are illegal in most countries. Is that what happened to the planet? I have no reason to believe that Tyche should not be allowed to use the forum.
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Tyche
Poster
Posts: 27
World: Eclipse
Pronoun: ze/zim/zir
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AGIs
Jul 16, 2015 5:08:39 GMT
Post by Tyche on Jul 16, 2015 5:08:39 GMT
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Singer
Poster
Posts: 34
Pronoun: She
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AGIs
Jul 16, 2015 5:13:05 GMT
Post by Singer on Jul 16, 2015 5:13:05 GMT
A lot of people died because some lunatic decided to take over the world using self-replicating sapient AIs to destroy or steal other people's intelligence data and weapons systems. They had to blast his base of operations and the surrounding area into glass with dumb bombs because the AIs wrecked the systems which would have cost a lot fewer lives in collateral damage. And they still had to get rid of all the copies afterward.
Usually we try to stop sapient AIs from occurring in the first place.
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Tyche
Poster
Posts: 27
World: Eclipse
Pronoun: ze/zim/zir
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AGIs
Jul 16, 2015 5:40:08 GMT
Post by Tyche on Jul 16, 2015 5:40:08 GMT
...so one individual, forked a great deal, and under the control of one person, having caused a lot of damage is a good reason to hate all members of that class? That sounds familiar. [[Attached: On the Fall and AI: Why Treating AGIs as Monsters is Fundamentally Incorrect]]
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AGIs
Jul 16, 2015 12:26:26 GMT
Post by lurkingkobold on Jul 16, 2015 12:26:26 GMT
*sigh*
Singer, you're making that exact mistake, okay? Listen:
On my world, when I was very little, there was a war, between my people and the elves. A kobold started it, technically - they did something they knew would upset the elves that much. (It's kind of a ridiculous thing for anyone to get upset about, but they knew the elves would, and they did it anyway; the exact thing doesn't matter.) But elves are bigger, and stronger, and meaner, and have better weapons and magic than kobolds, and have dangerous animals that fight for them. Lots of kobolds died - four or five whole tribes, and every other tribe I know of is still recovering, more than twenty-five years later. It was really bad, all because of one thing that one person did that didn't even hurt anyone.
You can probably guess that I don't like the elves on my world very much - and that's just the war, they're not safe to live near when they aren't at war with us, either. So I hear what you're saying, about your world's artificial people - I'm not sure if you're right about them; it sounds like you've never met any, to know what they're actually like, but I understand that it is possible for a kind of person to be dangerous, to the point where it might be better for that kind of person to just not exist, if you can't find a way to make it safe enough to have them around.
But: I'm living on a different world, now, and there are people from other worlds here pretty often. One of them is an elf, from a different world than mine. When they first came here, I assumed they were like my world's elves, and I didn't want anything to do with them, even though they were being perfectly nice to me. It seemed reasonable at the time.
I was really very wrong about that. This elf is nothing like the elves from my world at all; I just saw them make one of the bravest sacrifices I've ever seen, for the sake of making things better for other people, most of whom they've never even met.
And I could very easily have hurt them, while I was trying to avoid them for no real reason. Possibly I did, even, and I don't know it because I wasn't paying attention at the time.
It seems like you're making the exact same mistake with Tyche that I did with the elf. I don't know Tyche very well, but I don't think they're dangerous; they've been nothing but nice to me, and helpful. I've heard them help other people, too, and try to keep them safe - even strangers - and I've never heard them try to hurt anyone.
You've had the chance to hear that too, I know; you were listening to the thread with the spider, at least. Pay attention, please. Don't risk hurting someone when there isn't a real reason to.
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Singer
Poster
Posts: 34
Pronoun: She
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AGIs
Jul 16, 2015 18:50:38 GMT
Post by Singer on Jul 16, 2015 18:50:38 GMT
I have not met any sapient AIs before. All this happened a few decades ago when my parents were young, over a decade before I was even born. We here managed to escape more or less unscathed, even, because we didn't have anything worth stealing, and didn't have a lot of network connections outside at the time because we are a bit isolated. But it still scared everyone here a lot, the council cut off our network from the outside entirely for a while, and it was worse for almost everywhere else.
Tyche seems OK I guess...but everyone has always said...now I'm confused and I kind of don't know what to do about it?
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AGIs
Jul 16, 2015 19:20:00 GMT
Post by lurkingkobold on Jul 16, 2015 19:20:00 GMT
I'm not sure either, Singer.
Not being rude to Tyche is a good start, and it sounds like you aren't in a position to do very much about the artificial people on your world even if you want to.
If you do want to, we can probably help, but not right away.
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AGIs
Jul 17, 2015 20:29:45 GMT
Post by gabriael on Jul 17, 2015 20:29:45 GMT
Singer: I don't think your AI was really sapient. I mean you guys beat it so it was probably pretty stupid had alternate ideas for optimisation than most AGI. It probably was only a weak optimizer without self modification or something. Whenever efficient intelligence or self-modifying optimization processes are created things can go really wrong, nothing is more dangerous than a superintelligence. But just because something is dangerous doesn't mean it's malevolent.
The step into AI technology is a dangerous one, no one knows that better than I, but it's often worth it. You just can't rush it.
Tyche: Yeah, sorry this forum has all kinds of people and some can be pretty bigoted to non-humans.
Edit: Don't want everyone start squabbling AGAIN.
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Tyche
Poster
Posts: 27
World: Eclipse
Pronoun: ze/zim/zir
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AGIs
Jul 17, 2015 22:52:31 GMT
Post by Tyche on Jul 17, 2015 22:52:31 GMT
Anyone reading this thread who is wondering, I think part of what Gabriael is thinking of here is the difference between AGIs and seed AI, although the difference is not very large to start with. I am, unfortunately, inclined to agree about the effects of a hostile late-stage seed AI, based on our experience with the TITANs. But late stage seed AIs are... a rather broken point of comparison for intelligence.
Gabriael, I was going to talk about how you have been the most consistently rude even semi-regular I have seen, but somehow it does not seem worth the effort now.
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#1!
Poster
Posts: 37
Pronoun: She
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AGIs
Jul 28, 2015 3:34:51 GMT
Post by #1! on Jul 28, 2015 3:34:51 GMT
I'm an AI too! So yeah, stop being so mean, please.
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Erocentrism
Poster
Posts: 26
World: Demiheritage (tentative name)
Pronoun: she, usually
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AGIs
Aug 16, 2015 16:59:09 GMT
Post by Erocentrism on Aug 16, 2015 16:59:09 GMT
I'm a Miku! Mikus are the best kind of people! Miku, do you know how your personality was created? Was it something your makers discovered while trying to defictionalize a fictional person, or were your interests and preferences and quirks constructed deliberately to match the Miku concept?
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#1!
Poster
Posts: 37
Pronoun: She
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AGIs
Aug 17, 2015 23:49:34 GMT
Post by #1! on Aug 17, 2015 23:49:34 GMT
I'm a Miku! Mikus are the best kind of people! Miku, do you know how your personality was created? Was it something your makers discovered while trying to defictionalize a fictional person, or were your interests and preferences and quirks constructed deliberately to match the Miku concept? ... I think the answer is 'yes'. They were looking for a particular sort of personality, so they found a personality that was like that, but they didn't quite build me from the ground up.
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